Dear Jim I hope my inquiries have not offended anyone. Like I mentioned I am relatively new to researching Genealogy I for one have not read the published works of George McCracken, Adolph Law Voge and Joshua Lindley Barton. Thanks to you I will now inquire about obtaining these works. I'm sure you are not suggesting that we give up searching because these writers could not find the answers we are seeking. I would think that in this day of the computer and our ability to reach people all over the world that just maybe some one has some recently discovered information they might divulge to us. I know that if their are as many good people like you and the others I have corresponded with on rootsweb it won't be long until we uncover some very pleasant news that will be of great help to most of us. Do you agree that new researchers bring out new questions and that the more people that are interested in solving a puzzle the more likely we are going to find some answers? Thanks again and I hope to hear from you soon...................Leo Jim Barton wrote: > Dear Leo, > > We agree this is a good forum for the subject, and we agree that it isn't good to present undocumented info as > fact in the publication or presentation of family trees. > > I am trying to point out that the subject of Rufus and Roger and the brother stories has been under > investigation at various times for at least 70 years by some very skilled amateurs and at least one very good > professional. The results have been published and are available to the public. As a researcher by education and > profession (but not genealogy), I try to avoid reinventing the same wheel. That is neither satisfying nor > rewarding. Therefore, I study the existing literature first. > > I will agree that it is exciting to jump into some of these things. But in the long run, I think everyone > better serves themselves and others by finding and studying what has already been done. With regard to Roger > Barton, the published works of George McCracken, Adolph Law Voge and Joshua Lindley Barton will be of great > benefit and will lead you to other related published material by reference. Having digested that material, a > person can sit back and ask themselves what aspect of it they want to research further, and what aspect do they > have the time, money and ability to research further. I found more than enough to do just bringing my line up > to date, and correcting the inevitable errors already in the literature regarding my line. > > Although Barton is not an unusual name, it is also not very common these days in the USA, thus we are inclined > to connect the dots. However, the name Barton is quite common in England and has been for centuries. Without > going back and counting again, I believe there are at least 23 towns in England named Barton. There aren't a > fraction that many in the much, much larger USA. Thus it indicates there were a lot of Bartons in England, > quite possibly totally unrelated. The explanations given for the name "Barton" allow for the name to arise > independently in a lot of different places, thus there is no one "Barton" from whom all other Bartons are > descended. > > By and large the Roger Barton line were schooled. One doesn't find their mark "x" on documents. To some small > degree they followed traditional ways of naming children, but they were not rigorous about that. One thing I > noticed in my line was that siblings would want to name their children after the same ancestor. The first > sibling there got the name. The other siblings then gave the same name to their children, but as a middle name > to avoid confusion. The children themselves, of course, then used the middle name and created the confusion. > That's what children are for. > > Jim > > Leo K. Barton wrote: > > > Dear Jim > > I agree with about people adding un-documented info but we do need a forum or something to be > > able to view these assertions so we can investigate them and try to validate or discard them. I > > am new to a great deal about Genealogy but I and many others have run into many inconsistencies. > > Some of which include people referring to others as brother or sister and people using their > > middle name or baptismal name. We are dealing with people that were not well schooled or that > > came from different nationalities that changed their names for a multitude of reasons. I guess > > that is what makes it so much fun. You mention a Captain Edward Barton that intrigues me could he > > be related to the Ship Master Thomas Barton that sailed the ship " Fortune " that landed in > > PLymouth in 1621 ?? All the recent dialog we've received in the last few days is quite > > exciting. Thanks for responding................Leo > > > > Jim Barton wrote: > > > > > Shiela, > > > > > > Please see McCracken's "Roger Barton of Westchester County, NY." I don't keep all the > > > e-mail, but as I recall, you were interested in a Peter Barton married to Esther Howland > > > with a son Daniel. > > > > > > Roger1 Barton 1628 - 1688, Mary ______ > > > Joseph2 Barton abt 1672 - 1762, 2nd wife, Abigail4 Lewis (Philip3, William2, William1) > > > Caleb3 Barton abt 1725 - 1819, Rose _______ > > > Peter4 Barton abt 1756 - ab 1818, Esther Howland. > > > Daniel5 Barton 1789 - > > > Or Peter5 Barton 1799 then Daniel6 if there was one. > > > > > > McCracken did not carry this family beyond what is above, the generation of Daniel5 and > > > Peter5. > > > > > > Peter4 was born in Nine Partners, Dutchess, Co., NY and died in Kinderhook, Columbia Co., > > > NY. Thus he was probably a Quaker. He married Esther Howland on Dec. 21, 1781. She is the > > > daughter of Samuel Howland, and was recorded in Pawling in the 1800 census. > > > > > > As you have found from the recent messages, the question of Roger Barton's ancestry has > > > contradictory answers. We have one current entry from Wales, another from Holland. Thus we > > > add the entry from Barbadoes, and several more. > > > > > > Writing in the N.Y. Gen. & Biogr. Rec. in 1928, Dr. Joshua Lindley Barton suggested that > > > Roger and Rufus were the sons of Edward Barton, a sea-captain. He suggested that the two > > > sons came from Barbadoes to the Island of Manhattan about 1641. He suggested that Rufus > > > went shortly thereafter to Rhode Island, and Roger settled among the Dutch and leased land > > > from Reverend Everardus Bogardus in 1642. McCracken proved that Rufus Barton, not Roger, > > > signed the lease. This was published in The American Genealogist in July, 1951. > > > > > > A recent message on this mailing list suggested that since it was Rufus who signed the > > > lease, he probably just turned the lease over to Roger and went on his way to Rhode > > > Island. However, Roger1 testified in 1688 that he was about 60 years old. Thus he was born > > > about 1628. Thus he would have been about 14 years old when the lease was signed in 1642. > > > It would take a lot of faith to turn over a property to a 14 year-old boy, especially > > > since it was among a people of another country, i.e, Dutch, not English. > > > > > > In 1937, Adolph Law Voge mentioned the stories extant at that time. One was, of course, > > > Captain Edward Barton in Barbadoes as the father of Roger. Another says one brother went > > > to Oxford, MA, one to Philadelphia and one to Dutchess Co. Another that three brothers > > > came to New York, one remained, one went to New England and one went South. These two are > > > not necessarily inconsistent. > > > > > > Voge also suggests a Roger Barton born in Walton, six miles north of Liverpool, England. > > > He has no known brothers. His father is Thomas, not Edward. > > > > > > The first documented mention of Roger1 Barton is in 1662 in Brookhaven, Long Island. From > > > that time on he is quite active and is documented repeatedly. If Roger1 was a brother of > > > Rufus, and if the two arrived together in 1641 or so, one would think there would be some > > > Roger1 Barton documentation during the 21 or 22 years between 1641 and 1662. There is not. > > > > > > >From the literature, one learns that more than a few people have gone through records in > > > England (at least) searching for a Roger Barton that fits any of the various theories. > > > There isn't any. > > > > > > I think it is good that everyone add their thoughts and data to this subject. As > > > individuals, we are all free to believe whatever we wish and to include whatever Roger > > > Barton ancestry we desire in our own family histories. However, I do object to including > > > undocumented Roger Barton ancestries in family trees which are submitted to public view > > > such as the FTM, RootsWeb and the LDS. In my opinion, it is not helpful to anyone to > > > publish undocumented genealogy, especially since the subject at hand has been thoroughly > > > researched for over 70 years without any supporting evidence being uncovered. > > > > > > If you wish, McCracken does suggest a brother of Roger Barton. See page 179 of Vol 106 > > > (July 1952 issue). McCracken notes a William Barton in New Jersey, and writes, "This > > > William Barton cannot have been a son of Roger1 Barton but he may have been a nephew." One > > > cannot have a nephew with the same surname without a brother. Voge writes that there was a > > > Thomas Barton in Burlington Co., NJ, in 1642, and that Roger's son Enoch died in southern > > > NJ near where Thomas Barton's family lived. Voge thought that to be somewhat compelling. > > > > > > Jim > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > Sheila328@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > Thank you to all those who responded, even third-hand--I really seem to have > > > > triggered something. But I think I am still left with more questions that I > > > > started with. > > > > > > > > Betsey (Perra?) has the original Barton settler coming from Holland to New > > > > Amsterdam, with four brothers, three of whom stayed. One of these was Roger? > > > > Then Leo Barton cites the Alvin Barton text that suggests the Bartons > > > > originated in Wales (at least there are still four brothers). We won't even > > > > get into the discussion whether Barton is an Irish name. My family thought > > > > it was English. > > > > > > > > Someone else suggested my Daniel was descended from Roger. Does anyone have > > > > any detail on that line? I have access to the IGI, but I'm still not sure > > > > which Daniel I'm supposed to be following--and did he have a brother William? > > > > Dorothy Muirhead suggested that my Daniel was the son of Peter Barton. But > > > > that line leads back to Edward (Edward1, Matthew2, Benjamin3, Joseph4, > > > > Caleb5, Peter6, Peter Jr.7, then Daniel and William?) > > > > > > > > And, to go back to my original question, are there any descendants of Mary > > > > Anne, Robert Loveland, William F., Charles B, Willard Allen, Henry Byron, or > > > > Daniel Moody Barton lurking out there? I did check all the middle names > > > > against the Barton Index and found none of them. > > > > > > > > My family did pass on a number of stories, but I have a sneaking feeling they > > > > tended to get mixed up over time. The reference to the slightly murky > > > > background of the Barton side of the family was attached to an early ship's > > > > captain who was reputed to have a wife in England and in the colonies > > > > (presumably the English one came first)--but the name my family associated > > > > with that little myth turns out to have been a military captain (no ship), > > > > and have a clean record. So was it a Barton story? > > > > > > > > All suggestions welcome. > > > > > > > > Sheila Connolly > > > > > > > > P.S. I have a lovely photo of Silas Abbott Barton, in case anyone wants to > > > > compare features. > > > > > > > > ==== BARTON Mailing List ==== > > > > All messages posted to this mailing list are the property of their writers. > > > > Please obtain permission from all parties before forwarding or publishing > > > > any message from this list. > > > > > > ==== BARTON Mailing List ==== > > > No copyrighted materials are permitted on this list unless by the copyright owner themselves. > > > > ==== BARTON Mailing List ==== > > Any list problems or questions can be sent to the listowner, Christi Calvert Brogan at christib@satx.rr.com > > ==== BARTON Mailing List ==== > Please visit the surname mailing list homepage at: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cbrogan/barton.html > for information on this list, it's member's pages, queries and other helpful genealogy pages.