---------------------------------------------------- This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 2:34 PM To: Dennis McWilliams Subject: Virginia Legislation I wanted to share this with you. Read all and go to the link. It has already passed and hopefully it goes back to the Committee. ----- Original Message ----- From: Celtic Lady <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 2:28 PM Subject: [VALEE] Fw: SB 818 - Pending Legislation > Jim, perhaps the emails below answer your questions about the pending legislation. As you can see, the die is cast on this -- it is already law and Debra has been burning the candle at both ends trying to get it back into committee for amendment. Unfortunately by the time I got on the bandwagon was just too late for me to act, particularly since I'm in Europe. Debra said I could share her letter with anyone, and though there is a personal bit about our ancestry, overall the information below will be helpful to anyone interest in the records of our ancestry and our nation's history being perserved. Hope this is what you were seeking. Linda Lee/Heidelberg Germany > > Jim Lawson said: > > Within the last week or so somebody posted a URL for pending > legislation (nationwide) that would affect genealogists and family historians. Unfortunately (1) I don't remember which list I saw it on and (2) I deleted the message and then emptied the Deleted File and (3) said "@#$$#%$ OOPS.' > > If somebody remembers or knows the URL I'm referring to, I'd > appreciate it you would contact me. > > Thanks, Jim > [email protected] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Debra Rookard > To: Celtic Lady > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:02 AM > Subject: Re: SB 818 > > > Thank you for the kind words. > > Here is the link for the entire Bill > > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?031+ful+SB818 > > You may send my letter where ever YOU may wish, but I'm beat. I was > the one who started this Friday night and I am bushed! I have not left my computer since Saturday morning at 6AM, except to sleep and go back to work this mo. I have answered hundreds of emails, questions on all the Lists, sent hundreds of links, etc. > > Believe me, anybody that has any small connection to genealogy in the State of Virginia now knows about this or has been under a rock! I have talked to people from just about every state in the Union. It is probably posted on almost 1/2 of the geneo Lists in the country already. Word spread like wildfire. I heard the uproar all over the country this past weekend. > > The Committe reconvened this morning. I think the email sent this > weekend that overflowed their boxes this morning cannot be topped for effect. I am not saying for people to stop writing, but we are officially out of time. Our best hope from the Committee, is for them to table it until next session. > > Yes, my roots are deeply entrenched in WCV and RCV. My mother's Capt. William B. Blackwell b: 1773 Botetourt Parish, Fincastle County; to become WCV in 1776. My family is still there in Meadowview, or more precisely Blackwells Chapel. My cousin lives in our ancestral home. I live in Atlanta, but am from MD. > > Debra > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Celtic Lady > To: Debra Rookard > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:23 AM > Subject: Re: SB 818 > > > Great letter, Debra! Just looking at Norbert's letter: What he says > is that SB 818 DID NOT authorize the Clerk to destroy the original will -- the law passed for that was passed by the GS in 2002 -- according to him, SB 818 is ONLY to authorized the Clerk to destroy the Rest of the file!! > > Now, the Section D and E that you cite below, are those from SB 818 > or the original law? If you look at those statements, a clerk cannot destroy ANY record -- as you so clearly pointed out, any historical document (historical being two minutes ago) has administrative and historical value for genealogists and insitutions interested in family history documentation -- note that there is some consideration for property disposition and settlements. This law is indeed fundamentally flawed -- how can such permanant, irrevocable determinations rest with a person does not have the knowledge, skill or training to recognize historical, genealogical, or sensational significance (what sensational significance mean? if you've ever been in a courthouse when somebody found a will of their 6-great-grandfather naming the wife and all the children, you'd know what sensational significance means!! but I'll bet Ol' Norment hasn't a clue) of a document nor are this person's interests and dec! > isions unbiased -- this person in many cases is interested in the > removal of documents from the storage area? As a note here, I do position evaluation for a living and determine how much money (the grade of the position) civilians in the Army make -- KNOWLEDGE AND SKILL are paramount indicators of the grade of the position, therefore the money the person makes -- I'd guess county clerks make a pitiful salary, thus pitifully inadequate knowledge and training to make these determinations. > > Has this been placed on the DAR, SAR, etc. web sites for all their > folks to know about? I think we should amend your letter just a bit and send it to every County genweb site we can find -- ask people to respond to the same group of people that you e-mailed to -- Virginia's records, and particularly will documents and estate settlements, are so key to genealogical research, to membership the the Societies you mentioned as well as numerous others. What do you think about doing that? > > Yo!! I just read to the very end of your e-mail -- you are out of Washington County VA? Stomping grounds of my direct ancestors, Neill line -- James Neill born 1792, Russell Co VA (previous Washington Co)! I knew I liked you for some reason!! > > If you agree that we/I can use your letter as a basis to send > something to our County contacts (not just in VA, but all across the US) I'd like to hear an uproar from across the country such that no State would ever think of such a horrendous act! I'll even try to find some European web sites for genealogy researchers (hopefully in English) and send to them. > > Thanks. Linda > > From: Senator Tommy Norment > To: xxxxx xxxxxxx > Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 4:17 PM > Subject: Re: SB 818 > > Thank you for your email regarding SB818. I was asked to carry this legislation on behalf of the Virginia Circuit Court Clerks Association. The reason for the bill is due to the incredible number of "unclaimed" documents that accumulate in the Clerk's office over many years. SB818 did not authorize the Clerk to destroy the original will. That legislation was passed by the General Assembly in 2002 and is currently the law in Virginia. This legislation only authorized the Clerk to destroy the other papers in the file after five years. > > Senator Tommy Norment > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Debra Rookard > To: Celtic Lady > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:07 AM > Subject: Fw: SB 818 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Debra Rookard > To: [email protected] ; > [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 4:48 PM > Subject: SB 818 > > > 9 February 2003 > > Dear Sir; > > While the intent of my letter is not to protest SB 818 for its > reason of presentment to your Committee, I would ask that your Committee completely revisit the definitions of "the powers of the Clerk", being that this is the current Law of Virginia and is foundationally flawed. > > For reference purposes, I have included a copy of the form letter Senator Norment has been copying to respondants this past weekend: > > From: Senator Tommy Norment > To: xxxxx xxxxxxx > Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 4:17 PM > Subject: Re: SB 818 > > Thank you for your email regarding SB818. I was asked to carry > this legislation on behalf of the Virginia Circuit Court Clerks Association. The reason for the bill is due to the incredible number of "unclaimed" documents that accumulate in the Clerk's office over many years. SB818 did not authorize the Clerk to destroy the original will. That legislation was passed by the General Assembly in 2002 and is currently the law in Virginia. This legislation only authorized the Clerk to destroy the other papers in the file after five years. > > Senator Tommy Norment > > > While Senator Norment incorrectly states that "SB 818 did not authorize the Clerk to destroy the original will", it does precisely that, along with other unfortunate and poor choices in wording : > > > Section D: Under the provisions of subsections B and C, the entire file of any case deemed by the local clerk of court to have historical value, as defined in § 42.1-77, or genealogical or sensational significance shall be retained permanently as shall all cases in which the title to real estate is established, conveyed or condemned by an order or decree of the court. The final order for all cases in which the title to real estate is so affected shall include an appropriate notification thereof to the clerk. > > > My concern is that of the power extended to the local Cleck's > ability or willingness to determine "genealogic value", since any state court record containing a name and a date is of genealogic value. > > Of supreme concern to those of us in genealogic research is the destruction of said Wills. Without this vehicle, our research would stop. Our interest is not that of a person's holdings, but who the deceased has documented as family, who witnesses it, etc. This document is second to none as a "Class 1" source and our most important proof of relation. The DAR , SAR, and the Society of The Dames and Barons of the Magna Carta list this document as their first and highest primary source of proof of heritage. > > Again > Section E: ... (iv) original wills and will files, to be > destroyed if such records, papers, documents, or wills no longer have administrative, fiscal, historical, or legal value to warrant continued retention, provided such records, papers, or documents have been microfilmed. > > Herein lies the "destruction of the original document" problem. > Please note in the above that there is no mention nor provision made for those of genealogic value; which includes all Wills. While the electronic recording of these records is vital, the quality is not always optimal. Without the aid of the original to back it up, they are oftimes worthless, with half the page chopped off, blank, out of focus, etc. This occurs more often than not. > > In Summary > Devoid of any system of checks and balances mandated by State > law, SB 818 currently engenders one tired and overworked Clerk the power to destroy 90 years of valuable Virginia history, 1913 - 2003 and that of any and all future Wills. > > > THEREFORE: > > I propose that all wording in regards to the Clerk's choice or > power in the destruction of Wills be stricken entirely and in its' place, wording ammeded to the effect: > > At the end of a particular document's State 3, 5,10 year retention period, the Clerk shall: > > A: Notify in advance, not being less than 120 days: the local Historical Society and Library of record of said documents slated for destruction. These entities may at no cost to themselves in the way of State fees, etc., relieve the Commonwealth of Virginia of said records and collect all such records from the Clerk within a reasonable amount of time, (to be determined). > > B: In conjuction with and at the same time, the Clerk shall notify > and post the identity of all records set for destruction on the website of the Commonwealth of Virginia specifically created and maintained for such; to include a true copy of the previous notification to the Historical Society and Library of record, it's address and phone, email, etc. (This page on VA's website will also contain an "automatic notification email feature", allowing those previously registering, be duly notified of said document's intended destruction and remedy.) > > C: In the event these organizations cannot or will not accept > these records, the documents will be held for sale by the Clerk for a fee of _______ + S & H, for no less than 120 days after the term of the expiration of the Historical Society and Library's notification. The clerk shall maintain and post on this website a perpetual database of the final disposition of these documents. > > (Notice how I worked in a money generator for the state and saved Virginia all that money now spent on disposal?) Hmmm... > > > These documents ARE public records and as such, they > intrinsically and lawfully belong to us. I ask only that you reconfigure the wording of the Law to allow them to be returned or to be put up for adoption. Here they may remain in perpetuity for future generations researching YOU & I one hundred years from now, giving our descendants a place to find us. Be a hero to your great great grandchildren. History is recording you at this precise moment. > > I thank you Sir for your time and considerations. This dilemma of > Will destruction facing the Commonwealth of Virginia is being monitored nationwide and abroad in Europe via our online genealogical Lists. I trust you to do all in your power to protect and permanently allow the invoilate perpetuation of the glorious history of our nation's founding state, especially in consideration of the extreme importance of this matter. > > > I Remain Yours Truly, > > Debra Rookard > 11th Grandaughter of Col. Edward Digges, 2nd Colonial Governor of Virginia and Founder of the College of William & Mary > > GenExchange County Coordinator, City of Williamsburg > http://www.genexchange.org/county.cfm?State=va&County=williamsburg > > Member of the Historical Society of Washington County, Virginia > > > ==== VALEE Mailing List ==== > Please avoid flaming (attacking) any single person or the group. This infraction will earn you immediate removal from the list. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >