This will be the end of this discussion on DNA! This and all Rootsweb surname lists are strictly for the use of the surname and not the subject of DNA, but most of all it is forbidden by Rootsweb to sell or advertise for sale for profit, any product of any kind. The DNA thing has been tried on most other lists and is generally accepted that it will not prove anything unless you have the means to exhume an ancestor for a sample to be tested. It will or can benefit the future genealogists. At any rate, it will not be discussed on this list. Fred Subject: [BARR] New Barr DNA project _http://www.dnaheritage.com./surnameform.asp?GroupUnique=587338958&Surname=Bar r_ (http://www.dnaheritage.com./surnameform.asp?GroupUnique=587338958&Surname=Barr) Basically, I am trying to create dialogue with other Barr descendants to compare our paper trail or documentation of our last known Barr ancestor with our DNA information. I have personally completed my DNA analysis for 43 markers and this information is coming to me in a report. However the true benefits of doing this analysis is in its ability to compare the results with other male Barr who also have their analysis completed. I decided to use the dna heritage company since frankly it was cheaper and its results are accurate. The cost for 23 markers is $137.77 for the evaluation. The actual sample was three swab, one from the right inside of my mouth, one from the left and then the third is a swab that you use partly on the right side then partly on the left. The directions with the sample kit are easy to follow. You complete the form they send you a kit, you return the kit to a lab. After the lab determines the sample is useable then they do the analysis and finally they ask for payment over secure site using "https:" for visa or master card. You may read all about this prior to asking to join by going to _www.dnaheritage.com/_ (http://www.dnaheritage.com/) As your coordinator, what I want to do is encourage some well known groups of Barr that have well researched out their tree to participate in order for us to have their markers identified. For example, love to have a known Barr descendant of William and Esther Barr to be tested. It usually only takes about 3 individuals from a known tree to establish a trend or pattern. Then I would love to have a couple of the PA Barr especially those related to Wm Barr and Mary Mc Knight of PA and OH. You will have to give your permission in writing before this company will do the DNA analysis but that is standard procedure. Also in order for these numbers to mean anything we will have to share and compare numbers between markers. These numbers don't review any personal or medical information and are referred to by this company as "junk DNA". Information below I copied from their site to also give further details: The aim of your initial contact letter (or email) is to start a dialogue, so it only needs to be short. Give them a hint about your project, how they can help, and provide a link to your project website. Having a project web-page you can refer people to is very useful (or essential), as your potential participants can do some more in-depth reading up on the subject. Most people are new to the idea of using their DNA to help with their family history, and so may be little reluctant at first. Providing a link to DNA Heritage’s Tutorial and FAQ’s pages (_http://www.dnaheritage.com/tutorial1.asp_ (http://www.dnaheritage.com/tutorial1.asp) and _http://www.dnaheritage.com/faqs.asp_ (http://www.dnaheritage.com/faqs.asp) ) will help inform them further. Be sure to point out that only ‘junk DNA’ is used (i.e. not medically informative) and will not identify you as an individual. The two biggest concerns that people will have are that the test is medically informative and can identify someone as an individual. In fact, we only test ‘junk DNA’ – which has no medical value, and the tests are certainly not as discriminating as a standard ‘forensic’ profile used by the police. Many have reservations about giving their own DNA, yet on learning a little more will think it is a great idea. Another factor is cost. As part of a Surname Project, each test is heavily discounted so we hope that your potential participants will see it is excellent value when compared against the time and cost of traditional record-based research, and can offfer insights into your joint family history that may not be seen otherwise. So in summary: Write a short introductory letter Your aims and objectives - why you are using DNA (e.g. to bypass a brick wall, back-up the existing paper trail or verify a lineage of descent)? How they can help Allay any possible fears (re: ‘junk DNA’ and forensic tests) Remember, the person you have written to may also be able to put you in touch with another relative willing and able to help. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I hope that Fred will allow us to use this Barr list for sharing the results of both the ancestor's tree and the DNA participate markers. If not then I will have to find another site. So many of us in the Barr research are so frustrated as to searching and finding our Barr ancestors. It took me over 30 years to find missing link and documentation. DNA may help some of us. The first thing it will do is start to group those Barr trees that have either exact matches or matches 1 or 2 markers off. This immediately separates German Barr from the Scotch Barr and may depending upon results separate some of the Scots Barr from the Scot-Irish Barr. The second thing this will do is help us validate our Barr ancestors and their close cousins from a DNA pattern. This process reminds me of the OLD TV show the Match GAME where two numbers are called and if the prizes are the same then its a match. Well, we have 23 up to 43 DNA markers or matches. What does this mean as genealogist: If you match all 43 markers then you and your cousin are descended from a common ancestor within 4 generations. Keep in mind the difference is going to be in the most recent generations which you probably know the most about. If you match 25 markers then you and your cousin are descended from a common ancestor within 6.9 generations. If you match 21 markers, then you and your cousin are descended from a common ancestor within 8.3 generations back. What I particularly like is that there is another way to sort out all of those John Barr, James Barr, Robert Barr, William Barr etc In another family that I am descendant of the male line of Braswell was able to confirm that my Braswell ancestor is from a probably from a particular older Valentine Braswell because my Richard had the same unique markers that differ at one site which match the proven documented brother Robert Braswell. Robert line was documented Richard line did not have a complete paper trail and thus the unique difference help to show DNA evidence that these two men were sons of the same father. I am available at [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) if you have further questions. If you would like to participate the first link is the request form for DNA sample. When you get your results please contact me about your numbers for each individual marker and your earliest known Barr line. Keep in mind this is ONLY for the male BARR family members to be tested. Thanks Michael G. Barr ==== BARR Mailing List ==== Fred W. Reese [email protected] List owner and Rootsweb Donor