Frank, There was a long article in the Banater Post some years ago about travel by land to the Banat. It was 7-8 years ago and I have forgotten the details. In any event I doubt if the route followed the Danube after Passau. Below Passau the river enters a narrow valley where in some places there would be no room for a road paralleling the river. After Vienna and especially after Budapest the land is very flat so that the channel of the river frequently splits and wanders badly with many oxbow lakes. The wooded banks are swampy so that access to the river is not easy. Note how few ports or towns are directly on the river south of Budapest. Over the years the channel has been rationalized so that many of the loops have been cut through. All this makes a road parralleling the river not so easy. In later years and before steamboats there were tow paths built in some places for getting boats upstream. Looking at the map and considering the trade routes to get to Southeastern Europe I would guess that a desirable route from Germany would avoid high passes through the Alps. A route through Graz and down the Darva River valley would avoid high passes and bring one back to the Danube about Neusatz. This should cut 200 Km off the route. Just speculation on my part. By this route migrates could still go through Vienna where they could be registered. On the other hand, there is no indiction in Wilhelm and Kallbrunner of immigrants other than those who went by ship. It seems possible that these might have been registered separately. If so, there may be a treasure of these records hiding somewhere in a Vienna archives. Incidentally the Danube route from Ulm to the Banat(Neusatz) was about 1100 Km and took three weeks. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 5:35 AM Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Danube Cruise > Danke Dave. > Yes. It is the Amawaterways. Thank you for the advice. How about the > Banaters that did not take the river, and took the land route. Would > they have followed the river or taken another path. > > Frank - Windsor > > > On 7/11/2014 11:39 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> Frank, >> It sounds like a Amawaterways cruise but yours may be a different cruise >> line. >> Several years ago my wife manuvered me onto this trip, except it was the >> reverse-----Vilshoven to Budapest. >> If you examine the details of the Banaters travel and considering the >> relatively short duration taken from Ulm or Regensburg to the >> Banat(Pantschowa or Neusatz) it is apparent that the barges did not >> dawdle >> along the way. We do not know if the barges pulled into shore for an >> overnight. or if they continued underway at night. At the time of >> migration >> to the Banat the travel on the Danube was not especially easy. The >> channel >> was blocked in places by rocks which had to be maneuvered around, sand >> bars, >> false channels and other obstructions, all making travel after dark >> chancy. >> As a result I doubt if there was time for any casual excursions. >> In my view there are two stops which would reflect on the immigrant >> experience. >> The first is the Great Abbey of Melk. The abbey sits on a high bluff >> overlooking the river and must have been an impressive sight at the time >> for >> the travelers on the river. Your boat will stop in Melk. They will >> offer a >> bus ride up to the abbey and a tour of the abbey. Take it. The library >> is >> particularly impressive. At the end of the tour dump the group and walk >> back down from the abbey on the footpaths and through the picturesque >> village of Melk to the boat. >> Secondly, the boat will tie up north of Vienna-----out in the sticks. It >> is >> about half a mile walk to get to the nearest Vienna streetcar line. >> My wife says take the tour into town but dump the tour at the first stop >> which should be Schwedenplatz. This is close to the Danube canal and on >> the >> edge of the core of the Altstadt as well as on the ring streetcar line. >> >From here you can walk up into the Altstadt to many of the tourist >> >sights. >> As you know, the Banater boats stopped a day in Vienna to register the >> migrants and pay them for a portion of their travel expenses. I do not >> know >> exactly where this registration site was but with a bit of research one >> should be able to determine its location and likely is within walking >> distance of Schwedenplatz.. Of course now it would be entirely altered >> with >> modern buildings. Perhaps there is someone on the DS list who can point >> you >> to the location of the registration place. >> In Passau, Linz and Bratislava(Pressburg) the boat will tie up within >> easy >> walking distance of the core of the town. If you do your homework it is >> not >> necessary to take a tour but you can explore on foot and see sights which >> interest you and have identified in advance. >> Some comments on Budapest. >> If you are interested in military matters and have the time you might >> consider spending some hours in the military museum. It is located on >> the >> northwest corner of Castle hill on the Buda side. Almost all places in >> Budapest will take Euro but for admittance to the museum you will need >> Florins. Last time I was there I didn't have any Florins but slid by >> passing as a senior-----if I didn't qualify I am not sure what it would >> take. In any event, last time I was there was a special exhibit on >> Russian >> World War I POW camps. It was accompanied by useful maps and many >> photos. >> The camps were distributed all the way across Russia to Vladivostok and >> even >> into Afghanistan at Kabul-----I am still trying to figure that one out. >> Unfortunately there was no catalogue to go with this exhibit. Their >> permanent exhibits tracks Austrian Hungarian history through its military >> artifacts. >> Another frequently overlooked Budapest sight worth consideration is a >> block >> size covered market a few blocks south of the St Elisabeth bridge on the >> Pest side. >> Gute Reise >> Dave Dreyer >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:44 AM >> Subject: [BANAT-L] Danube Cruise >> >> >>> Hello All >>> I'll be taking a Danube cruise in a couple of weeks from Budapest to >>> Vilshoven. (Passing through Bratislava, Vienna, Duernstein-Melk, >>> Linz-Gmunden, Passau). Are there any places, withing walking distance to >>> the river, that would have something to do with our ancestor's trek? >>> >>> Frank - Windsor >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Dave Thank you for the great information. Frank - Windsor On 7/14/2014 12:01 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Frank, > There was a long article in the Banater Post some years ago about travel by > land to the Banat. It was 7-8 years ago and I have forgotten the details. > In any event I doubt if the route followed the Danube after Passau. Below > Passau the river enters a narrow valley where in some places there would be > no room for a road paralleling the river. After Vienna and especially > after Budapest the land is very flat so that the channel of the river > frequently splits and wanders badly with many oxbow lakes. The wooded banks > are swampy so that access to the river is not easy. Note how few ports or > towns are directly on the river south of Budapest. Over the years the > channel has been rationalized so that many of the loops have been cut > through. All this makes a road parralleling the river not so easy. In > later years and before steamboats there were tow paths built in some places > for getting boats upstream. > Looking at the map and considering the trade routes to get to Southeastern > Europe I would guess that a desirable route from Germany would avoid high > passes through the Alps. A route through Graz and down the Darva River > valley would avoid high passes and bring one back to the Danube about > Neusatz. This should cut 200 Km off the route. Just speculation on my > part. > By this route migrates could still go through Vienna where they could be > registered. On the other hand, there is no indiction in Wilhelm and > Kallbrunner of immigrants other than those who went by ship. It seems > possible that these might have been registered separately. If so, there may > be a treasure of these records hiding somewhere in a Vienna archives. > Incidentally the Danube route from Ulm to the Banat(Neusatz) was about 1100 > Km and took three weeks. > Dave Dreyer > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 5:35 AM > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Danube Cruise > > >> Danke Dave. >> Yes. It is the Amawaterways. Thank you for the advice. How about the >> Banaters that did not take the river, and took the land route. Would >> they have followed the river or taken another path. >> >> Frank - Windsor >> >> >> On 7/11/2014 11:39 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>> Frank, >>> It sounds like a Amawaterways cruise but yours may be a different cruise >>> line. >>> Several years ago my wife manuvered me onto this trip, except it was the >>> reverse-----Vilshoven to Budapest. >>> If you examine the details of the Banaters travel and considering the >>> relatively short duration taken from Ulm or Regensburg to the >>> Banat(Pantschowa or Neusatz) it is apparent that the barges did not >>> dawdle >>> along the way. We do not know if the barges pulled into shore for an >>> overnight. or if they continued underway at night. At the time of >>> migration >>> to the Banat the travel on the Danube was not especially easy. The >>> channel >>> was blocked in places by rocks which had to be maneuvered around, sand >>> bars, >>> false channels and other obstructions, all making travel after dark >>> chancy. >>> As a result I doubt if there was time for any casual excursions. >>> In my view there are two stops which would reflect on the immigrant >>> experience. >>> The first is the Great Abbey of Melk. The abbey sits on a high bluff >>> overlooking the river and must have been an impressive sight at the time >>> for >>> the travelers on the river. Your boat will stop in Melk. They will >>> offer a >>> bus ride up to the abbey and a tour of the abbey. Take it. The library >>> is >>> particularly impressive. At the end of the tour dump the group and walk >>> back down from the abbey on the footpaths and through the picturesque >>> village of Melk to the boat. >>> Secondly, the boat will tie up north of Vienna-----out in the sticks. It >>> is >>> about half a mile walk to get to the nearest Vienna streetcar line. >>> My wife says take the tour into town but dump the tour at the first stop >>> which should be Schwedenplatz. This is close to the Danube canal and on >>> the >>> edge of the core of the Altstadt as well as on the ring streetcar line. >>> >From here you can walk up into the Altstadt to many of the tourist >>>> sights. >>> As you know, the Banater boats stopped a day in Vienna to register the >>> migrants and pay them for a portion of their travel expenses. I do not >>> know >>> exactly where this registration site was but with a bit of research one >>> should be able to determine its location and likely is within walking >>> distance of Schwedenplatz.. Of course now it would be entirely altered >>> with >>> modern buildings. Perhaps there is someone on the DS list who can point >>> you >>> to the location of the registration place. >>> In Passau, Linz and Bratislava(Pressburg) the boat will tie up within >>> easy >>> walking distance of the core of the town. If you do your homework it is >>> not >>> necessary to take a tour but you can explore on foot and see sights which >>> interest you and have identified in advance. >>> Some comments on Budapest. >>> If you are interested in military matters and have the time you might >>> consider spending some hours in the military museum. It is located on >>> the >>> northwest corner of Castle hill on the Buda side. Almost all places in >>> Budapest will take Euro but for admittance to the museum you will need >>> Florins. Last time I was there I didn't have any Florins but slid by >>> passing as a senior-----if I didn't qualify I am not sure what it would >>> take. In any event, last time I was there was a special exhibit on >>> Russian >>> World War I POW camps. It was accompanied by useful maps and many >>> photos. >>> The camps were distributed all the way across Russia to Vladivostok and >>> even >>> into Afghanistan at Kabul-----I am still trying to figure that one out. >>> Unfortunately there was no catalogue to go with this exhibit. Their >>> permanent exhibits tracks Austrian Hungarian history through its military >>> artifacts. >>> Another frequently overlooked Budapest sight worth consideration is a >>> block >>> size covered market a few blocks south of the St Elisabeth bridge on the >>> Pest side. >>> Gute Reise >>> Dave Dreyer >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:44 AM >>> Subject: [BANAT-L] Danube Cruise >>> >>> >>>> Hello All >>>> I'll be taking a Danube cruise in a couple of weeks from Budapest to >>>> Vilshoven. (Passing through Bratislava, Vienna, Duernstein-Melk, >>>> Linz-Gmunden, Passau). Are there any places, withing walking distance to >>>> the river, that would have something to do with our ancestor's trek? >>>> >>>> Frank - Windsor >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes >>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >