Hi All, After looking at Edward's chart, I think it's highly possible that what looked to me like a lower case V might have been the priest's way of writing the lower case AE, letter because the old V's look nothing like what I saw, and the old lower case A's look more like it. I also see in the variations of the name, that the priest's spelling of Kaissez -- or that might be an R at the end -- is one of the many variations. Marilyn / snowed-in in Michigan, with wind chill at minus 10, a great day to ruminate on family trees! On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Edward J. Lowitz < [email protected]> wrote: > I can’t really say as I don’t have the document(s) in front of me but as > the priest’s surname begins as ‘Kais’ and KAISER begins ‘Kais’ (bracketing > the ‘a’ in question), I think it is strange that he would not write them > both the same way. > > > > One thing I didn’t think to mention in my prior post was to do a Google > search on Kveiser to see if it shows up anywhere as a ‘valid’ surname. > Give it a shot (I just did that). Radix had a listing for a Miklos > Kveiser. The Lebanon Daily News (Pennsylvania) has several entries for the > surname Kveiser. There are some Google book entries for Kveiser (that > appear to be in Fraktur) that are a little confusing as well. > > > > Based on those Google hits, it does look as though ‘Kveiser’ might be a > surname in its own right. Weird stuff does happen though so I’d just keep > it in the related family folder and see what a few more years research > uncovers. > > > > BTW, here’s a real good Fraktur chart from Yale: > > > > http://www.library.yale.edu/cataloging/music/fraktur.htm > > > > Ed. > > *From:* Marilyn Fedewa [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Monday, January 06, 2014 11:18 AM > *To:* Edward J. Lowitz; [email protected] > *Cc:* Amanda Kaiser > > *Subject:* Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? > > > > Hi Ed. This is certainly confounding! Ironically, the priest was the same > Ferencz Kaissez for all the records (4 or 5) that I saw from 1896-1901. And > he consistently wrote his name beginning with Ka, with a definitely > close-looped A. At the same time, all the entries that he wrote for what I > take as Amanda's family have what really looks like Kv. Altho I checked an > old German handwriting guide and it appears that some ae letters may be > written somewhat like a V or a U. > > > > What do you think? > > > > Marilyn > > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Edward J. Lowitz < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Correct me if I'm wrong but I have never heard where the parish priest > asked > the parishioners to check his spelling after he made an entry in any of the > Registers. I'd be interested to know if they did. Doesn't help out if the > parishioners were illiterate, but it would be nice for us to know. > > I once came across a transcribed record which listed the surname as > 'Basset'. As I was very familiar with the family and suspected the entry > (made by a JP) was wrong, I looked at the source record and noticed the JP > slanted his script 'r' upwards with a little curl at the end - when he > wrote > 'are', it could be confused as 'ase'. He had written 'Barret' which the > transcriber thought was 'Basset'! I had know that 'Barret' was the correct > entry. > > In the Kaiser/Kveiser scenario, we are looking at a 1 to 2 letter variance > - > possibly the 've' was meant to be an 'a'. Was Kveiser written more than > one > time in the source documents? Was it written as Kveiser only by one writer > or multiple writers in the source documents? What surname spellings are > associated with known peripheral family members (ex. brothers, sisters, > parents, etc.)? > > Bahlow's book on German Surnames does not have an entry for Kveiser as a > subset of Kaiser or as an independent entry. Then again, it does not list > my surname either (Wendian name for a small town in NE Germany). :-) > > Following on those lines, surnames do have meaning. If you can't find a > meaning/translation for 'Kveiser', I'd assume that either the priest got > into the sacrificial wine or else someone bumped his arm when he was making > the entry. > > Ed. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Marilyn Fedewa > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 12:11 PM > To: Amanda Kaiser > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? > > Hi Amanda, > > I can certainly understand Marco's reluctance to accept the Kveiser's as > Kaiser's, given the difference in spelling. That's why I asked for input > from Dave and others on the list. I still think it's highly likely that the > Nikolaus we found is your great granddad, but it would be great to hear > some > responses from others on the list regarding name variations, when the > priests switched from Hungarian to German to Romanian and Latin, all of > which influenced the spelling. As well as phonetics. I'm sure there are > many > examples of this among List members. > > In my own family, my maternal grandfather Franz Christ was listed sometimes > as Krisczt. My paternal great grandfather showed up as Conrad Hoh (with the > umlaut) and Konrad Heh, sometimes with and sometimes without the accent > over > the e. Other Heh's in my extended Ernsthausen family have appeared as Hech, > Hach and Heh in the same document, and one living gentleman, a Holz, who > escaped from Ernsthausen in his teens, and who knew my grandparents well, > said on occasion in Ernsthausen it was also spelled Hay, which is how we > pronounce it today. On Ellis Island records they appeared as Heh, Hee, and > Hob. All of these are definitely my family. My great grandmother's surname > has appeared on many documents as Dill, Till, Diehl, and probably a couple > more, can't remember at the moment. > > Having said all that, before corresponding directly with Marco, I'd rather > first hear back from the List, if that's okay with you. > > In the meantime, keep on trucking! All the best, > > Marilyn > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Amanda Kaiser > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Hi Marilyn, > > I have contacted Michael and there doesn't seem to be a connection but > > there maybe somewhere down the line. I also let the researcher know > > about your find but he seemed to be not convinced with the spelling > > change. Can I give him you email address so he can confer with you? He > > is a reasearcher for gross betschkerek and his name is Marco. He found > > my grandad's brothers and sister. As far as I know my great > > grandfather Nikolaus Kaiser was born in Ernsthausen 1890's, possibbly > > married in St Georgen (can't find any records), had children in Grob > > Betschkerek 1924 - 1934, was at his son's wedding (my grandad Franz > > Kaiser) in Ottnang, Unterkinberg Nr2 1948 and listed as living in > > Stayr at the time. It also says his wife was deceased at the time of > > the marriage. From there I don't know what happened just that my > > grandad Franz Kaiser came to australia in 1954 without any other > > family. I don't know where all my gandad's brothers and sister ended > > up and possibly Elisabeth the youngest child of my great grandfather > Nikolaus may be alive but I have no idea what her married name would be. > > Take care > > :) mandy > > ________________________________________ >