Hi Ed. This is certainly confounding! Ironically, the priest was the same Ferencz Kaissez for all the records (4 or 5) that I saw from 1896-1901. And he consistently wrote his name beginning with Ka, with a definitely close-looped A. At the same time, all the entries that he wrote for what I take as Amanda's family have what really looks like Kv. Altho I checked an old German handwriting guide and it appears that some ae letters may be written somewhat like a V or a U. What do you think? Marilyn On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Edward J. Lowitz < [email protected]> wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong but I have never heard where the parish priest > asked > the parishioners to check his spelling after he made an entry in any of the > Registers. I'd be interested to know if they did. Doesn't help out if the > parishioners were illiterate, but it would be nice for us to know. > > I once came across a transcribed record which listed the surname as > 'Basset'. As I was very familiar with the family and suspected the entry > (made by a JP) was wrong, I looked at the source record and noticed the JP > slanted his script 'r' upwards with a little curl at the end - when he > wrote > 'are', it could be confused as 'ase'. He had written 'Barret' which the > transcriber thought was 'Basset'! I had know that 'Barret' was the correct > entry. > > In the Kaiser/Kveiser scenario, we are looking at a 1 to 2 letter variance > - > possibly the 've' was meant to be an 'a'. Was Kveiser written more than > one > time in the source documents? Was it written as Kveiser only by one writer > or multiple writers in the source documents? What surname spellings are > associated with known peripheral family members (ex. brothers, sisters, > parents, etc.)? > > Bahlow's book on German Surnames does not have an entry for Kveiser as a > subset of Kaiser or as an independent entry. Then again, it does not list > my surname either (Wendian name for a small town in NE Germany). :-) > > Following on those lines, surnames do have meaning. If you can't find a > meaning/translation for 'Kveiser', I'd assume that either the priest got > into the sacrificial wine or else someone bumped his arm when he was making > the entry. > > Ed. > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Marilyn Fedewa > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 12:11 PM > To: Amanda Kaiser > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? > > Hi Amanda, > > I can certainly understand Marco's reluctance to accept the Kveiser's as > Kaiser's, given the difference in spelling. That's why I asked for input > from Dave and others on the list. I still think it's highly likely that the > Nikolaus we found is your great granddad, but it would be great to hear > some > responses from others on the list regarding name variations, when the > priests switched from Hungarian to German to Romanian and Latin, all of > which influenced the spelling. As well as phonetics. I'm sure there are > many > examples of this among List members. > > In my own family, my maternal grandfather Franz Christ was listed sometimes > as Krisczt. My paternal great grandfather showed up as Conrad Hoh (with the > umlaut) and Konrad Heh, sometimes with and sometimes without the accent > over > the e. Other Heh's in my extended Ernsthausen family have appeared as Hech, > Hach and Heh in the same document, and one living gentleman, a Holz, who > escaped from Ernsthausen in his teens, and who knew my grandparents well, > said on occasion in Ernsthausen it was also spelled Hay, which is how we > pronounce it today. On Ellis Island records they appeared as Heh, Hee, and > Hob. All of these are definitely my family. My great grandmother's surname > has appeared on many documents as Dill, Till, Diehl, and probably a couple > more, can't remember at the moment. > > Having said all that, before corresponding directly with Marco, I'd rather > first hear back from the List, if that's okay with you. > > In the meantime, keep on trucking! All the best, > > Marilyn > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Amanda Kaiser > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Hi Marilyn, > > I have contacted Michael and there doesn't seem to be a connection but > > there maybe somewhere down the line. I also let the researcher know > > about your find but he seemed to be not convinced with the spelling > > change. Can I give him you email address so he can confer with you? He > > is a reasearcher for gross betschkerek and his name is Marco. He found > > my grandad's brothers and sister. As far as I know my great > > grandfather Nikolaus Kaiser was born in Ernsthausen 1890's, possibbly > > married in St Georgen (can't find any records), had children in Grob > > Betschkerek 1924 - 1934, was at his son's wedding (my grandad Franz > > Kaiser) in Ottnang, Unterkinberg Nr2 1948 and listed as living in > > Stayr at the time. It also says his wife was deceased at the time of > > the marriage. From there I don't know what happened just that my > > grandad Franz Kaiser came to australia in 1954 without any other > > family. I don't know where all my gandad's brothers and sister ended > > up and possibly Elisabeth the youngest child of my great grandfather > Nikolaus may be alive but I have no idea what her married name would be. > > Take care > > :) mandy > > ________________________________________ >

I can't really say as I don't have the document(s) in front of me but as the priest's surname begins as 'Kais' and KAISER begins 'Kais' (bracketing the 'a' in question), I think it is strange that he would not write them both the same way. One thing I didn't think to mention in my prior post was to do a Google search on Kveiser to see if it shows up anywhere as a 'valid' surname. Give it a shot (I just did that). Radix had a listing for a Miklos Kveiser. The Lebanon Daily News (Pennsylvania) has several entries for the surname Kveiser. There are some Google book entries for Kveiser (that appear to be in Fraktur) that are a little confusing as well. Based on those Google hits, it does look as though 'Kveiser' might be a surname in its own right. Weird stuff does happen though so I'd just keep it in the related family folder and see what a few more years research uncovers. BTW, here's a real good Fraktur chart from Yale: http://www.library.yale.edu/cataloging/music/fraktur.htm Ed. From: Marilyn Fedewa [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 11:18 AM To: Edward J. Lowitz; [email protected] Cc: Amanda Kaiser Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? Hi Ed. This is certainly confounding! Ironically, the priest was the same Ferencz Kaissez for all the records (4 or 5) that I saw from 1896-1901. And he consistently wrote his name beginning with Ka, with a definitely close-looped A. At the same time, all the entries that he wrote for what I take as Amanda's family have what really looks like Kv. Altho I checked an old German handwriting guide and it appears that some ae letters may be written somewhat like a V or a U. What do you think? Marilyn On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Edward J. Lowitz <[email protected]> wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I have never heard where the parish priest asked the parishioners to check his spelling after he made an entry in any of the Registers. I'd be interested to know if they did. Doesn't help out if the parishioners were illiterate, but it would be nice for us to know. I once came across a transcribed record which listed the surname as 'Basset'. As I was very familiar with the family and suspected the entry (made by a JP) was wrong, I looked at the source record and noticed the JP slanted his script 'r' upwards with a little curl at the end - when he wrote 'are', it could be confused as 'ase'. He had written 'Barret' which the transcriber thought was 'Basset'! I had know that 'Barret' was the correct entry. In the Kaiser/Kveiser scenario, we are looking at a 1 to 2 letter variance - possibly the 've' was meant to be an 'a'. Was Kveiser written more than one time in the source documents? Was it written as Kveiser only by one writer or multiple writers in the source documents? What surname spellings are associated with known peripheral family members (ex. brothers, sisters, parents, etc.)? Bahlow's book on German Surnames does not have an entry for Kveiser as a subset of Kaiser or as an independent entry. Then again, it does not list my surname either (Wendian name for a small town in NE Germany). :-) Following on those lines, surnames do have meaning. If you can't find a meaning/translation for 'Kveiser', I'd assume that either the priest got into the sacrificial wine or else someone bumped his arm when he was making the entry. Ed. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marilyn Fedewa Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 12:11 PM To: Amanda Kaiser Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? Hi Amanda, I can certainly understand Marco's reluctance to accept the Kveiser's as Kaiser's, given the difference in spelling. That's why I asked for input from Dave and others on the list. I still think it's highly likely that the Nikolaus we found is your great granddad, but it would be great to hear some responses from others on the list regarding name variations, when the priests switched from Hungarian to German to Romanian and Latin, all of which influenced the spelling. As well as phonetics. I'm sure there are many examples of this among List members. In my own family, my maternal grandfather Franz Christ was listed sometimes as Krisczt. My paternal great grandfather showed up as Conrad Hoh (with the umlaut) and Konrad Heh, sometimes with and sometimes without the accent over the e. Other Heh's in my extended Ernsthausen family have appeared as Hech, Hach and Heh in the same document, and one living gentleman, a Holz, who escaped from Ernsthausen in his teens, and who knew my grandparents well, said on occasion in Ernsthausen it was also spelled Hay, which is how we pronounce it today. On Ellis Island records they appeared as Heh, Hee, and Hob. All of these are definitely my family. My great grandmother's surname has appeared on many documents as Dill, Till, Diehl, and probably a couple more, can't remember at the moment. Having said all that, before corresponding directly with Marco, I'd rather first hear back from the List, if that's okay with you. In the meantime, keep on trucking! All the best, Marilyn On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Amanda Kaiser <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > I have contacted Michael and there doesn't seem to be a connection but > there maybe somewhere down the line. I also let the researcher know > about your find but he seemed to be not convinced with the spelling > change. Can I give him you email address so he can confer with you? He > is a reasearcher for gross betschkerek and his name is Marco. He found > my grandad's brothers and sister. As far as I know my great > grandfather Nikolaus Kaiser was born in Ernsthausen 1890's, possibbly > married in St Georgen (can't find any records), had children in Grob > Betschkerek 1924 - 1934, was at his son's wedding (my grandad Franz > Kaiser) in Ottnang, Unterkinberg Nr2 1948 and listed as living in > Stayr at the time. It also says his wife was deceased at the time of > the marriage. From there I don't know what happened just that my > grandad Franz Kaiser came to australia in 1954 without any other > family. I don't know where all my gandad's brothers and sister ended > up and possibly Elisabeth the youngest child of my great grandfather Nikolaus may be alive but I have no idea what her married name would be. > Take care > :) mandy > ________________________________________