Spring at last, here in Michigan! I'm glad to see these recent thoughts on all name and spelling variations for the same family surname. And, I want to mention again, especially to Amanda, what I found after looking at some of the handwriting charts regarding KAISER. One chart was by Felix Gundacker, and one was from the Family History Library. After studying them again, particularly how the lower case a's were written, I am pretty convinced that what I thought was KVEISER, in the church book pages, was actually KAEISER. But I was interpreting it as though it were written in today's cursive handwriting, instead of what might have been old German or Gothic I think. Not a new thought for many on the List, but a good learning experience for me. Best to all, Marilyn On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Marilyn Fedewa <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi All, > After looking at Edward's chart, I think it's highly possible that what > looked to me like a lower case V might have been the priest's way of > writing the lower case AE, letter because the old V's look nothing like > what I saw, and the old lower case A's look more like it. I also see in the > variations of the name, that the priest's spelling of Kaissez -- or that > might be an R at the end -- is one of the many variations. > Marilyn / snowed-in in Michigan, with wind chill at minus 10, a great day > to ruminate on family trees! > > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Edward J. Lowitz < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I can’t really say as I don’t have the document(s) in front of me but as >> the priest’s surname begins as ‘Kais’ and KAISER begins ‘Kais’ (bracketing >> the ‘a’ in question), I think it is strange that he would not write them >> both the same way. >> >> >> >> One thing I didn’t think to mention in my prior post was to do a Google >> search on Kveiser to see if it shows up anywhere as a ‘valid’ surname. >> Give it a shot (I just did that). Radix had a listing for a Miklos >> Kveiser. The Lebanon Daily News (Pennsylvania) has several entries for the >> surname Kveiser. There are some Google book entries for Kveiser (that >> appear to be in Fraktur) that are a little confusing as well. >> >> >> >> Based on those Google hits, it does look as though ‘Kveiser’ might be a >> surname in its own right. Weird stuff does happen though so I’d just keep >> it in the related family folder and see what a few more years research >> uncovers. >> >> >> >> BTW, here’s a real good Fraktur chart from Yale: >> >> >> >> http://www.library.yale.edu/cataloging/music/fraktur.htm >> >> >> >> Ed. >> >> *From:* Marilyn Fedewa [mailto:[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Monday, January 06, 2014 11:18 AM >> *To:* Edward J. Lowitz; [email protected] >> *Cc:* Amanda Kaiser >> >> *Subject:* Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? >> >> >> >> Hi Ed. This is certainly confounding! Ironically, the priest was the same >> Ferencz Kaissez for all the records (4 or 5) that I saw from 1896-1901. And >> he consistently wrote his name beginning with Ka, with a definitely >> close-looped A. At the same time, all the entries that he wrote for what I >> take as Amanda's family have what really looks like Kv. Altho I checked an >> old German handwriting guide and it appears that some ae letters may be >> written somewhat like a V or a U. >> >> >> >> What do you think? >> >> >> >> Marilyn >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Edward J. Lowitz < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> Correct me if I'm wrong but I have never heard where the parish priest >> asked >> the parishioners to check his spelling after he made an entry in any of >> the >> Registers. I'd be interested to know if they did. Doesn't help out if >> the >> parishioners were illiterate, but it would be nice for us to know. >> >> I once came across a transcribed record which listed the surname as >> 'Basset'. As I was very familiar with the family and suspected the entry >> (made by a JP) was wrong, I looked at the source record and noticed the JP >> slanted his script 'r' upwards with a little curl at the end - when he >> wrote >> 'are', it could be confused as 'ase'. He had written 'Barret' which the >> transcriber thought was 'Basset'! I had know that 'Barret' was the >> correct >> entry. >> >> In the Kaiser/Kveiser scenario, we are looking at a 1 to 2 letter >> variance - >> possibly the 've' was meant to be an 'a'. Was Kveiser written more than >> one >> time in the source documents? Was it written as Kveiser only by one >> writer >> or multiple writers in the source documents? What surname spellings are >> associated with known peripheral family members (ex. brothers, sisters, >> parents, etc.)? >> >> Bahlow's book on German Surnames does not have an entry for Kveiser as a >> subset of Kaiser or as an independent entry. Then again, it does not list >> my surname either (Wendian name for a small town in NE Germany). :-) >> >> Following on those lines, surnames do have meaning. If you can't find a >> meaning/translation for 'Kveiser', I'd assume that either the priest got >> into the sacrificial wine or else someone bumped his arm when he was >> making >> the entry. >> >> Ed. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Marilyn Fedewa >> Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 12:11 PM >> To: Amanda Kaiser >> Cc: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? >> >> Hi Amanda, >> >> I can certainly understand Marco's reluctance to accept the Kveiser's as >> Kaiser's, given the difference in spelling. That's why I asked for input >> from Dave and others on the list. I still think it's highly likely that >> the >> Nikolaus we found is your great granddad, but it would be great to hear >> some >> responses from others on the list regarding name variations, when the >> priests switched from Hungarian to German to Romanian and Latin, all of >> which influenced the spelling. As well as phonetics. I'm sure there are >> many >> examples of this among List members. >> >> In my own family, my maternal grandfather Franz Christ was listed >> sometimes >> as Krisczt. My paternal great grandfather showed up as Conrad Hoh (with >> the >> umlaut) and Konrad Heh, sometimes with and sometimes without the accent >> over >> the e. Other Heh's in my extended Ernsthausen family have appeared as >> Hech, >> Hach and Heh in the same document, and one living gentleman, a Holz, who >> escaped from Ernsthausen in his teens, and who knew my grandparents well, >> said on occasion in Ernsthausen it was also spelled Hay, which is how we >> pronounce it today. On Ellis Island records they appeared as Heh, Hee, and >> Hob. All of these are definitely my family. My great grandmother's surname >> has appeared on many documents as Dill, Till, Diehl, and probably a couple >> more, can't remember at the moment. >> >> Having said all that, before corresponding directly with Marco, I'd rather >> first hear back from the List, if that's okay with you. >> >> In the meantime, keep on trucking! All the best, >> >> Marilyn >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Amanda Kaiser >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> > Hi Marilyn, >> > I have contacted Michael and there doesn't seem to be a connection but >> > there maybe somewhere down the line. I also let the researcher know >> > about your find but he seemed to be not convinced with the spelling >> > change. Can I give him you email address so he can confer with you? He >> > is a reasearcher for gross betschkerek and his name is Marco. He found >> > my grandad's brothers and sister. As far as I know my great >> > grandfather Nikolaus Kaiser was born in Ernsthausen 1890's, possibbly >> > married in St Georgen (can't find any records), had children in Grob >> > Betschkerek 1924 - 1934, was at his son's wedding (my grandad Franz >> > Kaiser) in Ottnang, Unterkinberg Nr2 1948 and listed as living in >> > Stayr at the time. It also says his wife was deceased at the time of >> > the marriage. From there I don't know what happened just that my >> > grandad Franz Kaiser came to australia in 1954 without any other >> > family. I don't know where all my gandad's brothers and sister ended >> > up and possibly Elisabeth the youngest child of my great grandfather >> Nikolaus may be alive but I have no idea what her married name would be. >> > Take care >> > :) mandy >> > ________________________________________ >> > >