Linda, It happens because the spelling variants all(mostly) sound the same. You will find a table of the phonetic alphabet for genealogical purposes in any introductory how-to-do publication it for German research and occasionally in the introductory section to German family books. Thus, the names Dreyer and Trier are spelling varients of the same name because they sound the same. The main changes encountered are the interchange of the letters B and P D and T less common is the interchange of k and g. In spoken German, unlike English, all letters are pronounced with the possible exception of h which can be hardly perceptible. There was a big change in the accepted German spelling rules in the 1930s in which h was dropped from the spelling of many words because it was not pronounced. Thus the German word for gate, thor became tor. The common occurrence of sz in names found in Banat records, for example Masszong (or Maszong) which we would normally spell as Massong is a twist introduced by Hungarian influence. When the name is written by a German the Z will be dropped. When one encounters the sz instead of s it is a good sign that the clerk or writer is a Hungarian. One encounters the Hungarian sz variant frequently in the passenger ship records but once in American the spelling reverts to the standard German spelling. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Bautz McKenna" <[email protected]> To: "Marilyn Fedewa" <[email protected]>; "Amanda Kaiser" <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? > The spelling variations I've found are often so far apart I cannot figure > how it happened. for instance: Bautz =Pautz=Pauz+ Paucz= Penzer= > Panzer=Peschle and all the B's and P's interchangeable, etc. go > figure....... so don't give up easily !! > > Linda Bautz McKenna > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marilyn Fedewa" <[email protected]> > To: "Amanda Kaiser" <[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 1:11 PM > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? > > >> Hi Amanda, >> >> I can certainly understand Marco's reluctance to accept the Kveiser's as >> Kaiser's, given the difference in spelling. That's why I asked for input >> from Dave and others on the list. I still think it's highly likely that >> the >> Nikolaus we found is your great granddad, but it would be great to hear >> some responses from others on the list regarding name variations, when >> the >> priests switched from Hungarian to German to Romanian and Latin, all of >> which influenced the spelling. As well as phonetics. I'm sure there are >> many examples of this among List members. >> >> In my own family, my maternal grandfather Franz Christ was listed >> sometimes >> as Krisczt. My paternal great grandfather showed up as Conrad Hoh (with >> the >> umlaut) and Konrad Heh, sometimes with and sometimes without the accent >> over the e. Other Heh's in my extended Ernsthausen family have appeared >> as >> Hech, Hach and Heh in the same document, and one living gentleman, a >> Holz, >> who escaped from Ernsthausen in his teens, and who knew my grandparents >> well, said on occasion in Ernsthausen it was also spelled Hay, which is >> how >> we pronounce it today. On Ellis Island records they appeared as Heh, Hee, >> and Hob. All of these are definitely my family. My great grandmother's >> surname has appeared on many documents as Dill, Till, Diehl, and probably >> a >> couple more, can't remember at the moment. >> >> Having said all that, before corresponding directly with Marco, I'd >> rather >> first hear back from the List, if that's okay with you. >> >> In the meantime, keep on trucking! All the best, >> >> Marilyn >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Amanda Kaiser >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Hi Marilyn, >>> I have contacted Michael and there doesn't seem to be a connection but >>> there maybe somewhere down the line. I also let the researcher know >>> about >>> your find but he seemed to be not convinced with the spelling change. >>> Can >>> I >>> give him you email address so he can confer with you? He is a >>> reasearcher >>> for gross betschkerek and his name is Marco. He found my grandad's >>> brothers >>> and sister. As far as I know my great grandfather Nikolaus Kaiser was >>> born >>> in Ernsthausen 1890's, possibbly married in St Georgen (can't find any >>> records), had children in Grob Betschkerek 1924 - 1934, was at his son's >>> wedding (my grandad Franz Kaiser) in Ottnang, Unterkinberg Nr2 1948 and >>> listed as living in Stayr at the time. It also says his wife was >>> deceased >>> at the time of the marriage. From there I don't know what happened just >>> that my grandad Franz Kaiser came to australia in 1954 without any other >>> family. I don't know where all my gandad's brothers and sister ended up >>> and >>> possibly Elisabeth the youngest child of my great grandfather Nikolaus >>> may >>> be alive but I have no idea what her married name would be. >>> Take care >>> :) mandy >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Marilyn Fedewa [[email protected]] >>> Sent: Monday, 30 December 2013 11:32 AM >>> To: Amanda Kaiser >>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Kaiser in Ernsthausen >>> >>> Hi Mandy, >>> >>> Sorry it took so long to respond to your last email, but our power has >>> finally been restored (from a devastating Michigan ice storm). It's so >>> nice >>> to be home again, warm again, and connected!! I think you got all the >>> info >>> right from the previous emails, as far as I can see on the Banat List >>> and >>> your WikiTree page. In the meantime, here's a couple more thoughts for >>> you >>> . . . . >>> >>> 1 - Did you notice in the recent Banat LIst emails that there is a >>> Michael >>> Kaiser in the group? Looks to me as though his email address puts him in >>> Germany, but you still may benefit from comparing notes with him. >>> >>> 2 - I only just received another file on births in Ernsthausen >>> 1926-1945, >>> and haven't had time to go through it all, but in the first few pages I >>> did >>> see two Kveiser/Kaiser's in there as godparents. One was Jacob >>> Kveiser/Kaser, as godparent in Ernsthausen on November 27,1927, to baby >>> Catharina daughter of Andreas Reb and Angela Waleri/Valeri. The other >>> one >>> was an Elisabeth Kveiser/Kaiser in Ernsthausen on April 22, 1928 as >>> godmother to Jacob daughter of Maria Mayer. Not sure who these Kaisers >>> are, >>> relative to your family tree, but it places them in Ernsthausen at the >>> time. For what it's worth. >>> >>> Wishing you continued good luck on your searches, >>> >>> Marilyn >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Amanda Kaiser >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> Hi Marilyn, >>> I am absolutely blown away that you found the information on my great >>> grandad and great great grandparents! If I could, you'd have the biggest >>> hug right now!!! >>> Yes I work in Education, I have 2 jobs, mornings I work with disabled >>> primary school children running specialist programs in Numeracy, >>> Literacy >>> and Speech and in >>> the afternoon/night I work at the tafe (university) with disabled youth >>> and adults assisting them to gain their qualification in the fields they >>> are studying. End of the >>> semester is very busy! Glad to be able to have time off! >>> >>> For the last 6 months a researcher in the banat has been trying to >>> locate >>> my family. I will pass on the information to him as he was completely >>> stumped as well! He >>> managed to locate the records in Grob Betschkerek of my grandad and his >>> brothers & sister. Pretty sure there is another brother as my remembered >>> having 4 uncles, >>> my dad never knew he had an aunty. The researcher knew someone >>> researching >>> St Georgen and couldn't find my great grandfather in any records! >>> >>> So just to get it right... >>> >>> Nikolaus Kaiser born 1871 St Georgen (parents: Theresia (Mort) and >>> Nikolaus Kaiser) >>> married: 26 Nov 1896 in Ernsthausen to wife Elisabeth Schneider >>> (parents: >>> Anna (Pfendt) and Christof Schneider) >>> Children: all born in Ernsthausen >>> 1. Nikolaus 30 Aug 1896 oo Magdalena Gangl >>> 2. Peter 7 April 1898 >>> 3. Mathias 20 May 1900 >>> 4. Franz 18 Dec 1901 >>> >>> I am so thankful! You have really made a difference! Thankyou for >>> spending >>> so much of your time to help. I appreciate it more than you know! >>> I hope you have a great Christmas and a really wonderful New Year! >>> >>> :) Mandy >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Marilyn Fedewa [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] >>> Sent: Saturday, 21 December 2013 4:42 AM >>> To: Amanda Kaiser >>> Subject: Re: Kaiser in Ernsthausen >>> >>> Hi, I figured we'd hear back from you, just wanted to make sure you >>> didn't >>> have a computer meltdown or something more dire. >>> >>> When you study Dave Dreyer's response to my note in the Banat Listings, >>> you'll see that your great grandparents were actually married in >>> Ernsthausen. He/Miklos/Nikolaus was listed as originally from St. George >>> and living in Botos, or vice versa, can't remember at the moment which >>> way >>> the columns are written. And she/Ersebet/Elisabeth was listed as living >>> in >>> Ernsthausen house #181 & 1/2. Not only that, the priest marked down >>> THEIR >>> parents names, so you'll have info back to your great-greats on both of >>> their sides. >>> >>> I'm so happy I was able to do this (I spent about three hours looking >>> through the records after Dave said they weren't there, just hoping it >>> wasn't so, as I know how weird the handwriting and spelling can be, and >>> how >>> frustrating it can be to find nada -- and so many people on the Banat >>> List >>> have helped me enormously. FYI, the List will be very gratified to hear >>> your response. It is lovely group of very committed competent people, >>> all >>> searching for their own families, and learning as they go). >>> >>> So, HAPPY BIRTHDAY again!! Do I deduce from your email that you work at >>> an >>> educational institution? (I am semi-retired but was with Michigan State >>> University and another college and university for years). All the best >>> to >>> you, Amanda! >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 7:15 AM, Amanda Kaiser >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: >>> Hi Marilyn! >>> Thank you thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!!!! >>> I have just read my emails with tears streaming and the biggest smile, I >>> can't believe you were able to find info on my great grandfather! I'm >>> sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I've been working 12/13 hour >>> days >>> all week! Thank god today was my last day at work...I'm exhausted!!! My >>> grandad and his siblings were all born in Grob Betschkerek. So I think >>> that >>> my great grandfather might have married in Sankt Georgen because he >>> wasn't >>> in the marriage register in Grob Betschkerek. I am so thankful, you have >>> given me the best birthday present ever! I need to re read your email >>> because I read it quickly and rushed to reply. I just wanted to let you >>> know I was ok. I'll get back to you tomorrow once I have another look at >>> the info and after I have a massive sleep in!!!! Yay! Take care and good >>> night >>> :-) mandy >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Marilyn Fedewa [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] >>> ><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>] >>> Sent: Friday, 20 December 2013 1:41 AM >>> To: Amanda Kaiser >>> Subject: Kaiser in Ernsthausen >>> >>> Hi Amanda, hope you are okay and wonder if you received the email and >>> Banat postings about your family? I had thought you might be pleased at >>> finding your great granddad. All the best, Marilyn >>> >>> This message is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally >>> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this >>> email, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of the email or >>> any part thereof (including any attachment), is prohibited and you >>> should >>> notify the sender and delete this email immediately. To the fullest >>> extent >>> permitted by law the Gordon accepts no liability for any loss or damage >>> which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message