Lorenz and Anna are tough to track. My instincts tell me that Anna's origins are most likely in Elisenhain or Kriva Bara . Of course as researchers we want the proof, and to date I have been unable to locate that info. Since the records for Kriva Bara are in an archive and inaccessible to me it is even more disappointing. This past year I reviewed the records for Gross Gaj and found there with several additional children for Lorenz and Anna. There are other Horvaths ( Horwat ) in these records as well. Because I only extracted those records of interest to me there may be additional information of interest to others. The DVDs for Gross Gaj were purchased through the Zichydorf Village Association. Eileen Lund-Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dreyer " < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> To: " Banat List" < BANAT -L@ rootsweb .com> Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 12:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [ BANAT -L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka . He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain . These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf , and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs . In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain . Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing. The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD. The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course. There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz. The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right. There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname. No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs , As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure. Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834. However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz . It was not in Josefsdorf . I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf - Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna HN 308 1 Stefan *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855 +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz HN 238 ex Etschka . Juryman in Elisenhain . To New York 1893 *1836 +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12 +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836 +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais , OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ , wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof , son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents. Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204 +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73 +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283 +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280 +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia , dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER (ex Novo Selo ) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra , Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH (ex Novo Selo ) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj , ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo , oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH . 3 Maria Anna *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg . *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@ suddenlink .net> To: < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall > Hey Dave: > Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath > is from Deutsche Etschka . Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the > EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from > Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. > I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka > book and if they could do a lookup for me. I am hoping this record will > clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his > siblings. According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not > have the exact date. > I would appreciate any help. > Dave Weinfurtner > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Dave, Thanks for posting that information on the Horvaths...there were a few things in there I was hoping to find! That was great! Thanks! I would like to add a correction to one of the children listed for Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger. There is listed an Apollonia Hovath married to Leopold Monnich. Leopold and Apollonia's marriage is found in the Zichydorf KB. They were married 25 Feb 1884 - Leopold was a resident of Setschanfeld and Apollonia a resident of Georgshausen. Apollonia's parents are listed as Josef Horvath and Katharina Rittinger. Source - Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, Book III, 1852-1895, page 163, record 19. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz) The following information is what I have on Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger: 1. Lorenz Horvath-1. Anna Rollinger. Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger married. They had the following children: i. Josef Horvath was born on 27 Feb 1858 in Ujfalu (#72)[1]. ii. Katharina Horvath was born on 08 Jul 1859 in Ujfalu (#76)[2]. iii. Nikolaus Horvath was born on 17 Oct 1860 in Ujfalu (#75)[3]. iv. Anna Horvath was born on 17 Oct 1860 in Ujfalu (#75)[4]. v. Nikolaus Horvath was born on 07 May 1866 in Ujfalu. vi. Katharina Horvath was born on 07 May 1866 in Ujfalu[5]. Sources 1 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 160, record 31. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 2 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 175, record 75. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 3 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 186, record 91. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 4 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 186, record 91. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 5 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 224, record 43. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). The following information is what I have on Leopold Monnich and Apollonia Horvath: 1. Apollonia Horvath-1 was born between 1866-1867 in Georgshausen. She died on 01 Sep 1927 in Setschanfeld[1]. Leopold Monnich son of Johann Monnich and Magdalena Linabitz was born on 01 Nov 1861 in Setschanfeld[2]. Leopold Monnich and Apollonia Horvath were married on 25 Feb 1884 in Zichydorf, Hungary (Residence: Setschanfeld - Leopold)[3]. They had the following children: i. Anna Monnich was born on 18 Apr 1885 in Setschanfeld[4]. She died on 31 May 1885 in Setschanfeld[5]. ii. Eva Monnich was born on 03 Jan 1887 in Josefdorf. iii. Josef Monnich was born on 12 Aug 1889 in Josefdorf. 3. iv. Barbara Monnich was born on 23 May 1893 in Josefsdorf, Hungary[6]. She married Franz Jerhof on 05 Nov 1911 in Gross Gaj (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[7]. v. Sebastian Monnich was born on 23 Jan 1896 in Setschanfeld[8]. Generation 2 2. Barbara Monnich-2 (Apollonia-1) was born on 23 May 1893 in Josefsdorf, Hungary[6]. Franz Jerhof son of Franz Jerhof and Anna Schwartz was born on 22 Nov 1885 in Ujfalu[9]. He died before 1920 (Died in WWI)[10]. Franz Jerhof and Barbara Monnich were married on 05 Nov 1911 in Gross Gaj (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[7]. They had the following children: 3. i. Anna Jerhof was born on 05 Apr 1913 in Gynlazelop[11]. She married Johann Lambrecht on 30 Jan 1932 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[12]. 4. ii. Josef Jerhof was born on 21 Jul 1914 in Eichenthal, Hungary (Sãlbãgelu Nou / Salbagelu Nou, Romania)[13, 14, 15]. He married Elisabeth Jung on 10 Oct 1937 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[16]. Nikolaus Brucker was born about 1884. He died in 1947 in Rudolfsgnad Internment Camp. Nikolaus Brucker and Barbara Monnich married. They had the following children: i. Peter (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 14 Mar 1925 in Setschanfeld[17]. ii. Johann (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 06 May 1926 in Setschanfeld[18]. He died on 08 Mar 1927 in Setschanfeld. iii. Eva (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 09 Aug 1927 in Setschanfeld[19]. iv. Apollonia Magdalena (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 06 Mar 1933 in Setschanfeld[20]. v. Mathias (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 02 Sep 1935 in Setschanfeld[21]. Page 1 of 3 Monday, August 09, 2010 12:33:26 AM Register Report for Apollonia Horvath Generation 2 (con't) Generation 3 3. Anna Jerhof-3 (Barbara-2, Apollonia-1) was born on 05 Apr 1913 in Gynlazelop[11]. Johann Lambrecht son of Nikolaus Lambrecht and Katharina Andres was born on 13 Jun 1911 in Setschanfeld[22]. He died before 30 May 1933[23]. Johann Lambrecht and Anna Jerhof were married on 30 Jan 1932 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[12]. They had no children. Sebastian Augustin son of Nikolaus Augustin and Magdalena (Anna) Monnich was born on 03 Apr 1910 in Setschanfeld[24]. Sebastian Augustin and Anna Jerhof married. They had the following children: i. Josef (Augustin) Lambrecht was born on 30 May 1933 in Ujfalu. ii. Elisabeth (Augustin) Lambrecht was born on 27 Sep 1935 in Setschanfeld[25]. She died on 04 Jan 1936 in Setschanfeld[26, 27]. 4. Josef Jerhof-3 (Barbara-2, Apollonia-1) was born on 21 Jul 1914 in Eichenthal, Hungary (Sãlbãgelu Nou / Salbagelu Nou, Romania)[13, 14, 15]. Elisabeth Jung daughter of Wendel (Young) Jung and Eva (Niesser) Hoh was born on 18 Sep 1919 in Setschanfeld[28]. She died in 1945 in Russia (Slave Labor Camp). Josef Jerhof and Elisabeth Jung were married on 10 Oct 1937 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[16]. They had the following children: i. Josef Jerhof was born on 10 Feb 1938 in Setschanfeld[29]. ii. Peter Jerhof was born on 25 Jul 1942 in Setschanfeld[30]. He died on 12 Aug 1942 in Setschanfeld. Sources 1 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Burial Records 1901-1932, page 204, record 84. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 2 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 192, record 75. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 3 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, Book III, 1852-1895, page 163, record 19. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 4 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 184, record 32. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 5 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 184, record 32. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 6 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 7 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 8 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 17, record 20. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 9 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 10 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 11 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 12 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 13 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952, Book VII, page 89, record 26. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 14 Donauschwaben Osterreich, Totenbuch der Donauschwaben. Database. http://www.totenbuch-donauschwaben.at/en/search.php. 15 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 36, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 16 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 36, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 17 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 270, record 55. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 18 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 282, record 76. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 19 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 295, record 112. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 20 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 28, record 70. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 21 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 71. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 22 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 227, record 68. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 23 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 24 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 207, record 37. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 25 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 26 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Burial Records 1932-2003, page 32, record 14. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 27 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 28 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 202, record 164. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 29 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952, Book VII, page 89, record 26. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 30 Secenovo/Duzine (Setschanfeld) Roman Catholic Parish Records, Matricula Baptisms 1940-1944, Digital Image. Page 14, Record 53. Zichydorf Village Association; http://www.zichydorfonline.org. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of -----Original Message----- From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of leengeo@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:10 PM To: Banat List Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Lorenz and Anna are tough to track. My instincts tell me that Anna's origins are most likely in Elisenhain or Kriva Bara . Of course as researchers we want the proof, and to date I have been unable to locate that info. Since the records for Kriva Bara are in an archive and inaccessible to me it is even more disappointing. This past year I reviewed the records for Gross Gaj and found there with several additional children for Lorenz and Anna. There are other Horvaths ( Horwat ) in these records as well. Because I only extracted those records of interest to me there may be additional information of interest to others. The DVDs for Gross Gaj were purchased through the Zichydorf Village Association. Eileen Lund-Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dreyer " < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> To: " Banat List" < BANAT -L@ rootsweb .com> Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 12:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [ BANAT -L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka . He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain . These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf , and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs . In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain . Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing. The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD. The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course. There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz. The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right. There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname. No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs , As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure. Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834. However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz . It was not in Josefsdorf . I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf - Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna HN 308 1 Stefan *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855 +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz HN 238 ex Etschka . Juryman in Elisenhain . To New York 1893 *1836 +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12 +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836 +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais , OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ , wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof , son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents. Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204 +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73 +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283 +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280 +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia , dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER (ex Novo Selo ) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra , Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH (ex Novo Selo ) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj , ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo , oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH . 3 Maria Anna *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg . *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@ suddenlink .net> To: < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall > Hey Dave: > Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath > is from Deutsche Etschka . Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the > EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from > Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. > I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka > book and if they could do a lookup for me. I am hoping this record will > clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his > siblings. According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not > have the exact date. > I would appreciate any help. > Dave Weinfurtner > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
There are also Horvath in Tomsdorf, Hetin, Ebendorf, Tobe, Nakodorf, Schabe, Pardan, Ruskodorf, Kis-Rokus, Sadan, Gottlob. Some later settled in Deutsch Zerne, as listed in the Deutsch Zerne Familienbuch. Fran Matkovich ----- Original Message ----- From: leengeo@gmail.com To: Banat List Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Lorenz and Anna are tough to track. My instincts tell me that Anna's origins are most likely in Elisenhain or Kriva Bara . Of course as researchers we want the proof, and to date I have been unable to locate that info. Since the records for Kriva Bara are in an archive and inaccessible to me it is even more disappointing. This past year I reviewed the records for Gross Gaj and found there with several additional children for Lorenz and Anna. There are other Horvaths ( Horwat ) in these records as well. Because I only extracted those records of interest to me there may be additional information of interest to others. The DVDs for Gross Gaj were purchased through the Zichydorf Village Association. Eileen Lund-Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dreyer " < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> To: " Banat List" < BANAT -L@ rootsweb .com> Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 12:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [ BANAT -L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka . He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain . These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf , and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs . In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain . Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing. The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD. The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course. There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz. The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right. There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname. No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs , As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure. Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834. However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz . It was not in Josefsdorf . I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf - Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna HN 308 1 Stefan *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855 +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz HN 238 ex Etschka . Juryman in Elisenhain . To New York 1893 *1836 +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12 +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836 +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais , OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ , wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof , son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents. Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204 +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73 +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283 +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280 +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia , dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER (ex Novo Selo ) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra , Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH (ex Novo Selo ) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj , ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo , oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH . 3 Maria Anna *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg . *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@ suddenlink .net> To: < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall > Hey Dave: > Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath > is from Deutsche Etschka . Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the > EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from > Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. > I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka > book and if they could do a lookup for me. I am hoping this record will > clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his > siblings. According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not > have the exact date. > I would appreciate any help. > Dave Weinfurtner > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message