This is a question to Dave Dreyer Page 153 The Banaters, as well as other peasant populations wanted relief from serfdom and forced labor to the nobility. It was not simple for Banaters to achieve a unified position. They could not forget that it was Maria Theresia and her son who had sold Banat villages to private landlords, resulting in the loss of their privileges.   >From reading various Banater town histories, I was aware that there were Grunds Herren or Herrschaften who controlled and presented the villages in the Hungarian Assembly. I did not know that Maria Theresia and her son (I assume Josef II) were responsible for this. Would you know how this was done. Also was this the case for Batschka and what about the Militaer Grenze.   In Heufeld people received the deed to their property in 1777 and the Banat was handed to Hungary in 1779 by Maria Theresia.   I was born in Ruskodorf which was a Herrschafts Gut before World War I and my ancestors came to Ruskodorf from Massdorf, Heufeld, St Hubert, Charleville and I know the local history oft his area.    I think your more knowledgeable about Banater History then anybody here or in Europe and I congratulate you. John Walter

John; When the Austrians expelled the Turks from the right bank of the Danube the Banat, unlike the Batscka, became the personal property of the Hapsburgs. The Banat villages which were established in the initial settlement period were the property of the Hapsburgs. Over time the Hapsburgs presented large tracks of unoccupied land, mainly in the southwestern Banat to individuals to whom they owed large sums or as rewards for service to the government. These tracks of land were of limited value without colonists to farm them. Thus, individuals like Ernst Kiss or Lazar who were owed for their service to the crown obtained large tracks. Villages like Lazarfeld, Ernsthausen, D Etschka and Sigmundfeld were established on their estates by these nobles. The settlers in these villages owed their landlords rent and a share of the crops. The landlords tended to raise the rents and inkind contributions over time. This led to movement of farmers as they searched for a place with lower costs. The Hapsburgs were chronically short of funds. In order to raise mony many of the villages in the Banat Heide which were owned by the Crown were put up for sale by auction. These were mainly bought up by wealthy cattle merchants or church authorities. A few remained unsold to the benefit and relief of the inhabitants. In the Batscka the Habsburgs largely honored the claims of the Hungarian nobles to recover their estates which had been taken by the Turks so that most villages in the Batscka(if not all) became the property of various Hungarian nobles. After the initial settlement period the administration of the Banat was converted from military to civil administration except for the Banat military frontier. This led to the terms "civil Banat" to distinguish it from "the regiment". The Banat military frontier was administrated by the 12th Deutsch Banater Grenz regiment up to 1866 when all the Banat was turned over to Hungarian administration. Those living in the Military frontier did not owe rent or in kind materials but instead owed their time on the Cordon or field service in times of war. Various battalions of the regiment saw hard service during the Napoleonic period. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Walter" <walt31wil2003@yahoo.com> To: <Banat-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:50 AM Subject: [BANAT-L] Banaters in Austrian Military Records This is a question to Dave Dreyer Page 153 The Banaters, as well as other peasant populations wanted relief from serfdom and forced labor to the nobility. It was not simple for Banaters to achieve a unified position. They could not forget that it was Maria Theresia and her son who had sold Banat villages to private landlords, resulting in the loss of their privileges. >From reading various Banater town histories, I was aware that there were >Grunds Herren or Herrschaften who controlled and presented the villages in >the Hungarian Assembly. I did not know that Maria Theresia and her son (I >assume Josef II) were responsible for this. Would you know how this was >done. Also was this the case for Batschka and what about the Militaer >Grenze. In Heufeld people received the deed to their property in 1777 and the Banat was handed to Hungary in 1779 by Maria Theresia. I was born in Ruskodorf which was a Herrschafts Gut before World War I and my ancestors came to Ruskodorf from Massdorf, Heufeld, St Hubert, Charleville and I know the local history oft his area. I think your more knowledgeable about Banater History then anybody here or in Europe and I congratulate you. John Walter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I never paid much attention in my Western Civ class back in the late 60's. Now that I know where my ancestors are from, I see the history of this area so differently. I am now interested in the Feudal System and the Hapsburg rule and and and. . . . I want to thank those of you on this list who regularly share your knowledge and insight regarding our Donauschwaben history. The past is so important to understanding how we got here, what molded us and who we are today. Thanks! Peg On 10/22/2010 9:52 PM, Dave Dreyer wrote: > John; > When the Austrians expelled the Turks from the right bank of the Danube the > Banat, unlike the Batscka, became the personal property of the Hapsburgs. > The Banat villages which were established in the initial settlement period > were the property of the Hapsburgs. Over time the Hapsburgs presented large > tracks of unoccupied land, mainly in the southwestern Banat to individuals > to whom they owed large sums or as rewards for service to the government. > These tracks of land were of limited value without colonists to farm them. > Thus, individuals like Ernst Kiss or Lazar who were owed for their service > to the crown obtained large tracks. Villages like Lazarfeld, Ernsthausen, > D Etschka and Sigmundfeld were established on their estates by these nobles. > The settlers in these villages owed their landlords rent and a share of the > crops. The landlords tended to raise the rents and inkind contributions > over time. This led to movement of farmers as they searched for a place > with lower costs. > The Hapsburgs were chronically short of funds. In order to raise mony many > of the villages in the Banat Heide which were owned by the Crown were put up > for sale by auction. These were mainly bought up by wealthy cattle > merchants or church authorities. A few remained unsold to the benefit and > relief of the inhabitants. > In the Batscka the Habsburgs largely honored the claims of the Hungarian > nobles to recover their estates which had been taken by the Turks so that > most villages in the Batscka(if not all) became the property of various > Hungarian nobles. After the initial settlement period the administration of > the Banat was converted from military to civil administration except for the > Banat military frontier. This led to the terms "civil Banat" to distinguish > it from "the regiment". The Banat military frontier was administrated by > the 12th Deutsch Banater Grenz regiment up to 1866 when all the Banat was > turned over to Hungarian administration. Those living in the Military > frontier did not owe rent or in kind materials but instead owed their time > on the Cordon or field service in times of war. Various battalions of the > regiment saw hard service during the Napoleonic period. > Dave Dreyer > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Walter"<walt31wil2003@yahoo.com> > To:<Banat-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:50 AM > Subject: [BANAT-L] Banaters in Austrian Military Records > > > > This is a question to Dave Dreyer > Page 153 > The Banaters, as well as other peasant populations wanted > relief from serfdom and forced labor to the nobility. It was not simple for > Banaters to achieve a > unified position. They could not forget that it was Maria Theresia and her > son who had sold > Banat villages to private landlords, resulting in the loss of their > privileges. > > > From reading various Banater town histories, I was aware that there were >> Grunds Herren or Herrschaften who controlled and presented the villages in >> the Hungarian Assembly. I did not know that Maria Theresia and her son (I >> assume Josef II) were responsible for this. Would you know how this was >> done. Also was this the case for Batschka and what about the Militaer >> Grenze. > In Heufeld people received the deed to their property in 1777 and the Banat > was handed to Hungary in 1779 by Maria Theresia. > > I was born in Ruskodorf which was a Herrschafts Gut before World War I and > my ancestors came to Ruskodorf from Massdorf, Heufeld, St Hubert, > Charleville and I know the local history oft his area. > > I think your more knowledgeable about Banater History then anybody here or > in Europe and I congratulate you. > John Walter > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >