Just one more note on these Horvath's - There is a listing for Jakob Horvath in the Lenauheim online book - http://www.ortsfamilienbuecher.de/famreport.php?ofb=lenauheim&ID=1526&nachna me=HORVATH&modus=&lang=en *Jakob Horvath married Elisabeth Taugner (I'm assuming this is the same couple as Jakob Horvath and Elisabeth Tanbrier) on 24.05.1835 in Lenauheim. There is one son listed for them - Fidelis Horvath born in 1842. I'm not sure if there would be any additional children listed in the actual book. Amy -----Original Message----- From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dave Dreyer Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 2:46 PM To: Banat List Subject: [BANAT-L] Horvath in Grabatz/Kriva Bara Amy; According to the Grabatz family book Jakob Horvath apparently was born 2 Aug 1812, son of Johann Horvath and Kath Neurohr. They had 12 kids in Grabatz(no Lorenz), of which 3 died shortly after birth. Of the remaining 9 kids there is only further data on one who apparently moved to Georgshausen. So one must conclude that the remaining 8 kids settled somewhere other than Grabatz------probably somewhere in the Southern Banat where daughter villages were opening up at this time. Four of these 8 kids were sons so the surname would have survived to this extent. Lorenz was born ca 1836 so he could have been the son of Jakob by his first marriage to Elisabeth Tanbrier. From your attachment note that there is a Lorenz Horvath and a Josef Horvath who are witnesses at the second marriage to Anna Beer. Jakob Horvath(*2 Aug 1812 Grabatz) had a brother, Josef, *13 May 1823 Grabatz who moved to Georgshausen. Could the son(Lorenz) have served as a witness to his fathers second marriage? We are building a big sand castle here but until proven otherwise we don't have much else to go on. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Nichols" <anichols@att.net> To: "'Dave Dreyer'" <ddreyer@pacbell.net>; "'Banat List'" <BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 7:16 AM Subject: RE: [BANAT-L] Elisenheim > Hello Dave and Dave, > > I am going to attach two records from the Gross Gaj Parish Books, which > give > some additional information on Lorenz Horvath. > > In Oct. 1860, Lorenz and Anna (Rollinger) were living in Ujfalu (House > #75) > when they had their twins - Nikolaus and Anna. In July of the same year, > there is a marriage record for a Jakob Horvath and Anna Beer (Baz?) and at > the time of their marriage they were also living in House #75. > > Jakob was the widower of Elisabeth Tanbrier and was 47 years old at the > time > of the marriage.The record lists him as being born in Grabatz. Jakob > Horvath and Anna Beer did have more children, but there is no further > indication of which house they were living in. > > Jakob Horvath died on 3 March 1869 (his wife died the next day) and on his > burial record he is noted to be 58 years old and from Grabatz. So - born > between 1811-1813 and perhaps Lorenz Horvath's father? > > So perhaps taking a look in the Grabatz Famlienbuch and might produce some > clues for Lorenz Horvath. > > Hope this helps! > Amy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Dave Dreyer > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 12:56 PM > To: Banat List > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Elisenheim > > Dave; > Elisenhain was established ca 1872. When the town site of Elisenhain was > abandoned in 1882 because of constant flooding the inhabitants were moved > to > > create the village of Josefsdorf. Since I am working on a Josefsdorf > family > > book I was interested in Elisenhain records because many of these people > were the first settlers of Josefsdorf. In the event, we were only able to > locate Elisenhain and acquire birth records. > Anna Rollinger could not have been born in Elisenhain. She was born ca > 1834 > > and Elisenhain did not exist at that time. One of her kids, Eva, *23 Jul > 1872 does occur in the Elisenhain birth records that I have and we know > that > > her husband, Lorenz was a Juryman in Elisenhain. The Josefsdorf records > indicate that Lorenz was from D Etschka. The family book, by Lung, for D > Etschka is now available on a CD(see Banatbooks.com) and indeed, there are > a > > bunch of Horvats in D Etschka but Lorenz is not there. This is undoubtly > due to the fact that there were some gaps in the records that Lung was > working from. You might consider getting the D Etschka CD and draw your > own > > conclusions. > The bottom line is, if your focus is on Anna Rollinger, to follow up the > Kriva Bara lead. To start you might consider contacting Marta Istvan and > see if she knows where the chruch books(KBs) are for Kriva Bara. Marta > lives in Gr Kikinda and it is a little far for her to get to on the bus > but > if the Kriva Bara KBs have been removed to a central archives, e.g. Gr > Betschkerek, she could probably dig out the data you need in short order. > If you are interested I can send you Marta email address. > Dave Dreyer > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <davey1947@suddenlink.net> > To: <ddreyer@pacbell.net> > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 1:48 AM > Subject: Elisenheim > > >> Hello Dave: >> I noticed that you are going to produce the Elisenheim Family Book. Does >> this mean that you will include Anna Rollinger in that Family book? That >> is one of the cites mentioned as being the hometown of Anna. Eileen >> Lund-Johnson is my cousin and I know that she has done a lot of research >> trying to find Anna's background. Kriva Bara is another possible >> hometown > >> for Anna. Markowitschewo is the German name for Kriva Bara. >> Also, Family Search lists Deutsche Etschka as being Lorenz Horvath's >> hometown. Has anyone done a lookup in that city for Lorenz? >> Sincerely, >> Dave Weinfurtner >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Amy, Jakob Korvath who married Elisabeth Taugner was born in Ernsthausen (according to the family book of Dietmar Giel) they had 6 children but no Lorenz Regards Anni > Just one more note on these Horvath's - > > There is a listing for Jakob Horvath in the Lenauheim online book - > http://www.ortsfamilienbuecher.de/famreport.php?ofb=lenauheim&ID=1526&nachna > me=HORVATH&modus=&lang=en > > *Jakob Horvath married Elisabeth Taugner (I'm assuming this is the same > couple as Jakob Horvath and Elisabeth Tanbrier) on 24.05.1835 in > Lenauheim. > There is one son listed for them - Fidelis Horvath born in 1842. I'm not > sure if there would be any additional children listed in the actual book. > > Amy > > -----Original Message----- > From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Dave Dreyer > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 2:46 PM > To: Banat List > Subject: [BANAT-L] Horvath in Grabatz/Kriva Bara > > Amy; > According to the Grabatz family book Jakob Horvath apparently was born 2 > Aug > > 1812, son of Johann Horvath and Kath Neurohr. They had 12 kids in > Grabatz(no Lorenz), of which 3 died shortly after birth. Of the remaining > 9 > > kids there is only further data on one who apparently moved to > Georgshausen. > > So one must conclude that the remaining 8 kids settled somewhere other > than > Grabatz------probably somewhere in the Southern Banat where daughter > villages were opening up at this time. Four of these 8 kids were sons so > the surname would have survived to this extent. Lorenz was born ca 1836 > so > he could have been the son of Jakob by his first marriage to Elisabeth > Tanbrier. From your attachment note that there is a Lorenz Horvath and a > Josef Horvath who are witnesses at the second marriage to Anna Beer. > Jakob > Horvath(*2 Aug 1812 Grabatz) had a brother, Josef, *13 May 1823 Grabatz > who > moved to Georgshausen. Could the son(Lorenz) have served as a witness to > his fathers second marriage? We are building a big sand castle here but > until proven otherwise we don't have much else to go on. > Dave Dreyer > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amy Nichols" <anichols@att.net> > To: "'Dave Dreyer'" <ddreyer@pacbell.net>; "'Banat List'" > <BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 7:16 AM > Subject: RE: [BANAT-L] Elisenheim > > > > Hello Dave and Dave, > > > > I am going to attach two records from the Gross Gaj Parish Books, which > > give > > some additional information on Lorenz Horvath. > > > > In Oct. 1860, Lorenz and Anna (Rollinger) were living in Ujfalu (House > > #75) > > when they had their twins - Nikolaus and Anna. In July of the same > year, > > there is a marriage record for a Jakob Horvath and Anna Beer (Baz?) and > at > > the time of their marriage they were also living in House #75. > > > > Jakob was the widower of Elisabeth Tanbrier and was 47 years old at the > > time > > of the marriage.The record lists him as being born in Grabatz. Jakob > > Horvath and Anna Beer did have more children, but there is no further > > indication of which house they were living in. > > > > Jakob Horvath died on 3 March 1869 (his wife died the next day) and on > his > > burial record he is noted to be 58 years old and from Grabatz. So - > born > > between 1811-1813 and perhaps Lorenz Horvath's father? > > > > So perhaps taking a look in the Grabatz Famlienbuch and might produce > some > > clues for Lorenz Horvath. > > > > Hope this helps! > > Amy > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > > Behalf Of Dave Dreyer > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 12:56 PM > > To: Banat List > > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Elisenheim > > > > Dave; > > Elisenhain was established ca 1872. When the town site of Elisenhain > was > > abandoned in 1882 because of constant flooding the inhabitants were > moved > > to > > > > create the village of Josefsdorf. Since I am working on a Josefsdorf > > family > > > > book I was interested in Elisenhain records because many of these people > > were the first settlers of Josefsdorf. In the event, we were only able > to > > locate Elisenhain and acquire birth records. > > Anna Rollinger could not have been born in Elisenhain. She was born ca > > 1834 > > > > and Elisenhain did not exist at that time. One of her kids, Eva, *23 > Jul > > 1872 does occur in the Elisenhain birth records that I have and we know > > that > > > > her husband, Lorenz was a Juryman in Elisenhain. The Josefsdorf records > > indicate that Lorenz was from D Etschka. The family book, by Lung, for > D > > Etschka is now available on a CD(see Banatbooks.com) and indeed, there > are > > > a > > > > bunch of Horvats in D Etschka but Lorenz is not there. This is > undoubtly > > due to the fact that there were some gaps in the records that Lung was > > working from. You might consider getting the D Etschka CD and draw your > > own > > > > conclusions. > > The bottom line is, if your focus is on Anna Rollinger, to follow up the > > Kriva Bara lead. To start you might consider contacting Marta Istvan > and > > see if she knows where the chruch books(KBs) are for Kriva Bara. Marta > > lives in Gr Kikinda and it is a little far for her to get to on the bus > > but > > if the Kriva Bara KBs have been removed to a central archives, e.g. Gr > > Betschkerek, she could probably dig out the data you need in short > order. > > If you are interested I can send you Marta email address. > > Dave Dreyer > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <davey1947@suddenlink.net> > > To: <ddreyer@pacbell.net> > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 1:48 AM > > Subject: Elisenheim > > > > > >> Hello Dave: > >> I noticed that you are going to produce the Elisenheim Family Book. > Does > >> this mean that you will include Anna Rollinger in that Family book? > That > >> is one of the cites mentioned as being the hometown of Anna. Eileen > >> Lund-Johnson is my cousin and I know that she has done a lot of > research > >> trying to find Anna's background. Kriva Bara is another possible > >> hometown > > > >> for Anna. Markowitschewo is the German name for Kriva Bara. > >> Also, Family Search lists Deutsche Etschka as being Lorenz Horvath's > >> hometown. Has anyone done a lookup in that city for Lorenz? > >> Sincerely, > >> Dave Weinfurtner > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message -- GRATIS: Spider-Man 1-3 sowie 300 weitere Videos! Jetzt freischalten! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome
Anni, That's very interesting and thanks for that information. It would make sense that perhaps Lorenz Horvath might also have been born in Ernsthausen if his mother was from there (although she would have been too old to actually have been born in the village). There is some indication that his wife, Anna Rollinger may have been from that village as well. -----Original Message----- From: Anna Lorenz [mailto:LorenzAnni@gmx.de] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:01 AM To: Amy Nichols; BANAT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Horvath in Grabatz/Kriva Bara Amy, Jakob Korvath who married Elisabeth Taugner was born in Ernsthausen (according to the family book of Dietmar Giel) they had 6 children but no Lorenz Regards Anni > Just one more note on these Horvath's - > > There is a listing for Jakob Horvath in the Lenauheim online book - > http://www.ortsfamilienbuecher.de/famreport.php?ofb=lenauheim&ID=1526&nachna > me=HORVATH&modus=&lang=en > > *Jakob Horvath married Elisabeth Taugner (I'm assuming this is the same > couple as Jakob Horvath and Elisabeth Tanbrier) on 24.05.1835 in > Lenauheim. > There is one son listed for them - Fidelis Horvath born in 1842. I'm not > sure if there would be any additional children listed in the actual book. > > Amy > > -----Original Message----- > From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Dave Dreyer > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 2:46 PM > To: Banat List > Subject: [BANAT-L] Horvath in Grabatz/Kriva Bara > > Amy; > According to the Grabatz family book Jakob Horvath apparently was born 2 > Aug > > 1812, son of Johann Horvath and Kath Neurohr. They had 12 kids in > Grabatz(no Lorenz), of which 3 died shortly after birth. Of the remaining > 9 > > kids there is only further data on one who apparently moved to > Georgshausen. > > So one must conclude that the remaining 8 kids settled somewhere other > than > Grabatz------probably somewhere in the Southern Banat where daughter > villages were opening up at this time. Four of these 8 kids were sons so > the surname would have survived to this extent. Lorenz was born ca 1836 > so > he could have been the son of Jakob by his first marriage to Elisabeth > Tanbrier. From your attachment note that there is a Lorenz Horvath and a > Josef Horvath who are witnesses at the second marriage to Anna Beer. > Jakob > Horvath(*2 Aug 1812 Grabatz) had a brother, Josef, *13 May 1823 Grabatz > who > moved to Georgshausen. Could the son(Lorenz) have served as a witness to > his fathers second marriage? We are building a big sand castle here but > until proven otherwise we don't have much else to go on. > Dave Dreyer > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amy Nichols" <anichols@att.net> > To: "'Dave Dreyer'" <ddreyer@pacbell.net>; "'Banat List'" > <BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 7:16 AM > Subject: RE: [BANAT-L] Elisenheim > > > > Hello Dave and Dave, > > > > I am going to attach two records from the Gross Gaj Parish Books, which > > give > > some additional information on Lorenz Horvath. > > > > In Oct. 1860, Lorenz and Anna (Rollinger) were living in Ujfalu (House > > #75) > > when they had their twins - Nikolaus and Anna. In July of the same > year, > > there is a marriage record for a Jakob Horvath and Anna Beer (Baz?) and > at > > the time of their marriage they were also living in House #75. > > > > Jakob was the widower of Elisabeth Tanbrier and was 47 years old at the > > time > > of the marriage.The record lists him as being born in Grabatz. Jakob > > Horvath and Anna Beer did have more children, but there is no further > > indication of which house they were living in. > > > > Jakob Horvath died on 3 March 1869 (his wife died the next day) and on > his > > burial record he is noted to be 58 years old and from Grabatz. So - > born > > between 1811-1813 and perhaps Lorenz Horvath's father? > > > > So perhaps taking a look in the Grabatz Famlienbuch and might produce > some > > clues for Lorenz Horvath. > > > > Hope this helps! > > Amy > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > > Behalf Of Dave Dreyer > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 12:56 PM > > To: Banat List > > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Elisenheim > > > > Dave; > > Elisenhain was established ca 1872. When the town site of Elisenhain > was > > abandoned in 1882 because of constant flooding the inhabitants were > moved > > to > > > > create the village of Josefsdorf. Since I am working on a Josefsdorf > > family > > > > book I was interested in Elisenhain records because many of these people > > were the first settlers of Josefsdorf. In the event, we were only able > to > > locate Elisenhain and acquire birth records. > > Anna Rollinger could not have been born in Elisenhain. She was born ca > > 1834 > > > > and Elisenhain did not exist at that time. One of her kids, Eva, *23 > Jul > > 1872 does occur in the Elisenhain birth records that I have and we know > > that > > > > her husband, Lorenz was a Juryman in Elisenhain. The Josefsdorf records > > indicate that Lorenz was from D Etschka. The family book, by Lung, for > D > > Etschka is now available on a CD(see Banatbooks.com) and indeed, there > are > > > a > > > > bunch of Horvats in D Etschka but Lorenz is not there. This is > undoubtly > > due to the fact that there were some gaps in the records that Lung was > > working from. You might consider getting the D Etschka CD and draw your > > own > > > > conclusions. > > The bottom line is, if your focus is on Anna Rollinger, to follow up the > > Kriva Bara lead. To start you might consider contacting Marta Istvan > and > > see if she knows where the chruch books(KBs) are for Kriva Bara. Marta > > lives in Gr Kikinda and it is a little far for her to get to on the bus > > but > > if the Kriva Bara KBs have been removed to a central archives, e.g. Gr > > Betschkerek, she could probably dig out the data you need in short > order. > > If you are interested I can send you Marta email address. > > Dave Dreyer > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <davey1947@suddenlink.net> > > To: <ddreyer@pacbell.net> > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 1:48 AM > > Subject: Elisenheim > > > > > >> Hello Dave: > >> I noticed that you are going to produce the Elisenheim Family Book. > Does > >> this mean that you will include Anna Rollinger in that Family book? > That > >> is one of the cites mentioned as being the hometown of Anna. Eileen > >> Lund-Johnson is my cousin and I know that she has done a lot of > research > >> trying to find Anna's background. Kriva Bara is another possible > >> hometown > > > >> for Anna. Markowitschewo is the German name for Kriva Bara. > >> Also, Family Search lists Deutsche Etschka as being Lorenz Horvath's > >> hometown. Has anyone done a lookup in that city for Lorenz? > >> Sincerely, > >> Dave Weinfurtner > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message -- GRATIS: Spider-Man 1-3 sowie 300 weitere Videos! Jetzt freischalten! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome