Hi Ed, "Herrschaftspass" sounds like a permit from one of the feudal overlords that owned many Banat villages before roughly 1848. Such passes were sometimes required for things like moving into a village, building a house, opening a workshop, sending an animal to the communal pasture, etc. "Roth Schack" is most likely a nickname. "Roth" could be an old spelling of "rot", which means "red". "Schack" could come from the French designation for Jakob: Jaques (pronounced like the German word "Schack"). Maybe Jakob or his father or grandfather got that nickname because he had red hair? Of course we are guessing here; maybe somebody has better ideas?? Cheers, Nick -----Original Message----- From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Edward J. Lowitz Sent: 15-Feb-10 15:06 To: Banat@rootsweb.com Subject: [BANAT-L] Herrschaftspass & Roth Schack? I was sieving my books for any information which I might have missed and found two entries which I can't translate/understand: 1) In Hans Wikete's Ortsippenbuch for Grossjetscha, under o38, he mentions "Herrschaftspass". I can't seem to find any references to it on the web and a quick check on the Banat archives did not uncover any mention of it either. Would someone provide some insight please? 2) In Ewald Spang's Familienbuch for Bogarosch, under k325, he mentions "Roth Schack". I can translate 'Roth' but not 'Schack' nor 'Roth Schack'. A translation would be appreciated! Thanks guys! Ed. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Look up, please. If anyone has access to the family book for Großsanktpeter, I am looking for the children of Christoph Kleemann and Anna Maria Friedrich. One of their children was my grandfather Michael who was born 3/22/1887. Thanks. Joanne Jenny

I was sieving my books for any information which I might have missed and found two entries which I can't translate/understand: 1) In Hans Wikete's Ortsippenbuch for Grossjetscha, under o38, he mentions "Herrschaftspass". I can't seem to find any references to it on the web and a quick check on the Banat archives did not uncover any mention of it either. Would someone provide some insight please? 2) In Ewald Spang's Familienbuch for Bogarosch, under k325, he mentions "Roth Schack". I can translate 'Roth' but not 'Schack' nor 'Roth Schack'. A translation would be appreciated! Thanks guys! Ed.

Susan, I have been in contact with Silvia Hain/Hein. She lives in Brazil. She has ancestors she states are from Glogovatz but I can not find them on the Glogovatz CDs. Mihail Hain b Oct 18 1910 Andreas or Andrei Hein/Hain b Ded 12 1888. Do you have any suggestions on how to help her? She knows that they came from Glogovatz but I cannot attach them to any data. Bob Hain _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/

Hoorah for cousins who found one another! Let's have more of the same in 2010. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Christie" <njgcards@yahoo.com> To: <ajleeb@shaw.ca> Cc: <DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES@rootsweb.com>; <Bguysmom@aol.com>; <Banat-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:11 PM Subject: [DVHH] Year Long Mystry Solved Alex... Many thanks for always bumping Kathy and I together....look what it led to! Ken Christie (njgcards@yahoo.com) 112 Indigo Cove Kyle, TX 78640 --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Bguysmom@aol.com <Bguysmom@aol.com> wrote: From: Bguysmom@aol.com <Bguysmom@aol.com> Subject: Re: Found it!! To: njgcards@yahoo.com Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 6:41 PM Holy Cow! I knew it too but just needed to figure this out. I knew in my heart that we were somehow because a lot of the names you had I had. You will have to tell Alex and we should put it on the Dvhh as a year long mystery solved. Talk to you later Cousin Happy Valentines Day! Kathy In a message dated 2/14/2010 1:40:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, njgcards@yahoo.com writes: Kathy... We are 4th cousins once-removed.....we share Catharina Lauer (*1799)....she is my ggg-grandmother via my maternal grandmother's side and she is one of your gggg-grandmothers. I had not extended this line back until today and was surprised what I ran into....Catharina Lauer's first husband was Peter Rothgerber (*1797). They had a daughter Barbara (*1821) who married Nicolaus Kircher (*1818). They had a son Philip (*1853) who had a son Michael (*1886). I believe this is your great-grandfather. Peter Rothgerber died in 1824 and Catharina Lauer remarried to Bernard Frank (*1797). They had a daughter Margaretha Frank (*1841). Margaretha and Barbara Rothgerber were half-sisters as they shared the same mother and grew up in the same household. Margaretha married Adam Schneider (*1831) and they had a son Philip (*1871). Philip went on to marry Elisabeth Rammacher (*1877). Their oldest daughter Elisabeth (*1897) is my grandmother who married John Gimbel and eventually lived in the house at 48 Duke Street. In addition, Elisabeth Rammacher's brother Johann married Ottilia Zoller. There are many connections between our families and it was nice to finally find out that we are, in fact, related! Your "cousin", Ken Christie (njgcards@yahoo.com) 112 Indigo Cove Kyle, TX 78640 -------------------------------- adlige Vorfahren aristocratic ancestors, ancestors of noble birth ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Alex...   Many thanks for always bumping Kathy and I together....look what it led to! Ken Christie (njgcards@yahoo.com) 112 Indigo Cove Kyle, TX 78640 --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Bguysmom@aol.com <Bguysmom@aol.com> wrote: From: Bguysmom@aol.com <Bguysmom@aol.com> Subject: Re: Found it!! To: njgcards@yahoo.com Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 6:41 PM Holy Cow! I knew it too but just needed to figure this out. I knew in my heart that we were somehow because a lot of the names you had I had. You will have to tell Alex and we should put it on the Dvhh as a year long mystery solved. Talk to you later Cousin  Happy Valentines Day!  Kathy In a message dated 2/14/2010 1:40:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, njgcards@yahoo.com writes: Kathy...   We are 4th cousins once-removed.....we share Catharina Lauer (*1799)....she is my ggg-grandmother via my maternal grandmother's side and she is one of your gggg-grandmothers.   I had not extended this line back until today and was surprised what I ran into....Catharina Lauer's first husband was Peter Rothgerber (*1797).  They had a daughter Barbara (*1821) who married Nicolaus Kircher (*1818).  They had a son Philip (*1853) who had a son Michael (*1886).  I believe this is your great-grandfather.   Peter Rothgerber died in 1824 and Catharina Lauer remarried to Bernard Frank (*1797).  They had a daughter Margaretha Frank (*1841).  Margaretha and Barbara Rothgerber were half-sisters as they shared the same mother and grew up in the same household.  Margaretha married Adam Schneider (*1831) and they had a son Philip (*1871).  Philip went on to marry Elisabeth Rammacher (*1877).  Their oldest daughter Elisabeth (*1897) is my grandmother who married John Gimbel and eventually lived in the house at 48 Duke Street.   In addition, Elisabeth Rammacher's brother Johann married Ottilia Zoller.  There are many connections between our families and it was nice to finally find out that we are, in fact, related!   Your "cousin",  Ken Christie (njgcards@yahoo.com) 112 Indigo Cove Kyle, TX 78640

Charlie; Thanks for your comments on the D Zerne work. I will pass them along to Philipp Lung and the Hornungs. Many times when one finishes a family book the author get dumped on when readers find typos or especially errors of fact so your views are a nice change. I will comment that others have responded privately along the same lines. As you are likely aware, Kovacs is a Hungarian surname and Toba, Topolya and Magyar Zerne are mainly Hungarian villages. You will find only limited resources through the AKdFF for these villages and you might consider contacting Marta ISTVAN who does research for a reasonable fee in this area. Other list members have employed Marta and I think all who did so are happy with her work. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Tiller" <charlietiller@hotmail.com> To: <banat@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:23 PM Subject: [BANAT-L] Hungarian ancestors and Magyarcjernya & Topolya resources? Hi all, I've made huge breakthroughs during the past week with the new Deutsch-Zerne FB (along with references to the old Hatzfeld FB), and I am very glad for it. It appears the next great leap will be tracing my Donauschwaben families back to Germany. I'm not ready yet for that scary undertaking and will savor what I have from the Banat for awhile. Thank you, Hornungs and Dave Dreyer! However, seeing three to five generations of Donauschwaben ancestors added in the blink of an eye makes my lone Hungarian ancestor stand out all the more. So I'm wondering if anyone can help me find direction on researching Hungarian ancestors in the Banat. In particular, my ancestor Wenzel/Vencel Kovacs was reportedly born in Topolya about 1852 and apparently spent much of his adult life on the estates (majors/hofs) near Toba and Magyarcjernya (Ungarische-Zerne). Therefore, I'd like to learn what resources are available for Topolya and Magyarcjernya (and Hungarian towns more generally), in hopes that I can begin the hunt for Wenzel's ancestors. If you think your response will be useful for many, please post to the Banat list. However, please post directly to me if you don't think the entire community needs to hear it: charlietiller@hotmail.com . Thank you so much, Charlie Tiller St. Paul, MN _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, I've made huge breakthroughs during the past week with the new Deutsch-Zerne FB (along with references to the old Hatzfeld FB), and I am very glad for it. It appears the next great leap will be tracing my Donauschwaben families back to Germany. I'm not ready yet for that scary undertaking and will savor what I have from the Banat for awhile. Thank you, Hornungs and Dave Dreyer! However, seeing three to five generations of Donauschwaben ancestors added in the blink of an eye makes my lone Hungarian ancestor stand out all the more. So I'm wondering if anyone can help me find direction on researching Hungarian ancestors in the Banat. In particular, my ancestor Wenzel/Vencel Kovacs was reportedly born in Topolya about 1852 and apparently spent much of his adult life on the estates (majors/hofs) near Toba and Magyarcjernya (Ungarische-Zerne). Therefore, I'd like to learn what resources are available for Topolya and Magyarcjernya (and Hungarian towns more generally), in hopes that I can begin the hunt for Wenzel's ancestors. If you think your response will be useful for many, please post to the Banat list. However, please post directly to me if you don't think the entire community needs to hear it: charlietiller@hotmail.com . Thank you so much, Charlie Tiller St. Paul, MN _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/

Many thanks Ken. Exactly what I wanted. :-) Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Christie To: Robert Evensen Cc: Banat-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Billed FB Robert... Attached is the page from the Billed FB. Ken Christie (njgcards@yahoo.com) 112 Indigo Cove Kyle, TX 78640 --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Robert Evensen <revensen@comcast.net> wrote: From: Robert Evensen <revensen@comcast.net> Subject: [BANAT-L] Billed FB To: "Banat" <BANAT@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 12:53 PM If someone has the Billed FB, I would appreciate finding out what is said about Martin Pettendorf, born 7 Dec 1865 in Großjetscha. I know he had a second wife and married in Billed. That is about it. The entry is #238. Robert Evensen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, Herta Müller's book "The Appointment' in English translation has been just published. Please see: http://books.google.com/books?id=uBrysTn3DjwC&dq=the+appointment+by+herta+muller&source=bl&ots=mnanQY-glE&sig=Lo1N4xTbURmjDTm0KgYZLju3Y9E&hl=en&ei=b3B4S6PME4PWtgOU18m8Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAQ

If someone has the Billed FB, I would appreciate finding out what is said about Martin Pettendorf, born 7 Dec 1865 in Großjetscha. I know he had a second wife and married in Billed. That is about it. The entry is #238. Robert Evensen

Hi Dave, I have a question that you may be able to answer. The Deutsch Zerne Familienbuch documents that certain residents came to the US and went to Lakeland, but it does not mention the state. Do you know which state was intended? Thanks, Fran Matkovich

I am out of the office from Fri 02/12/2010 until Tue 02/16/2010. I will respond to your message when I return. Note: This is an automated response to your message "BANAT Digest, Vol 5, Issue 48" sent on 2/13/10 3:01:37. This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away.

Hello to our Donauschwaben Researcher! MARCIA FAY is sending us great news! She claims you have been such great pupils learning and singing at last year's ninth Danube Swabian conference at Mt. Angel the song 'Donauschwaben Kindes-Kinder' that this year she intends to teach us the 'Hungarian Donauschwaben Volkshymne'. But hold on, before you start packing your suitcases, please also bring your smile with you, than DAVID PRESTON will be making a video of our 10th Treffen! That's wonderful! It will not only be an educational get-together but also a very enjoyable one also. Hope to see you there! Rosina www.hrastovac.net

Dear Amazing Banat Community, I have already received a number of helpful responses to my recent query for a Grabatz look-up. After years of brick walls in the 1880s, I found that my TILLERs started out in Hatzfeld about 1800, moved for a short time to Grabatz (as DILLER), then back to Hatzfeld (as TILLER), before settling in D-Zerne in the mid-1800s. Thanks go to those who shared your information and intuition. I do have a follow-up inquiry for those more experienced in Banat genealogy. My earliest TILLER in Hatzfeld was born about 1775 with no birth location listed. Does that "always" mean that there is no data on birth location, or is it common for an undesignated birth location to reflect the first immigrant to the region or village? On an alternative track, I noticed that Hatzfeld also has numerous TILLs/DILLs from the early 1700s well into the 1800s. In the past, I have been dissuaded when I suggested that perhaps TILLER is a variant that evolved from and then alongside TILL/DILL. Can anyone explain why that would or would not be a realistic possibility (linguistically, culturally, historically)? Besides finding a "bridge" person listed with both surnames, how might I set about establishing such a tie? Thank you all for your help, Charlie Tiller St. Paul, MN _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

Hello Mt. Angel travelers, John Schlesinger is sending us a great Google Oregon map: http://www.waterfallswest.com/page.php?id=centraloregon Thank you, John, Rosina www.hrastovac.net

Hello Mt. Angel travelers, For all of you photographers, here are some splendid spots you do not want to miss on your way to and from Mt. Angel this September 16-19th: Multnomah Falls: http://www.multnomahfallslodge.com/ http://www.spectacularoregon.com/fallslakes/multnomahfalls.htm Oneonta Falls: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneonta_Gorge http://adamschneider.net/photos/2005-04-og/source/p4021546.htm Bridal Veil Falls: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridal_Veil_Falls_%28Oregon%29 http://www.gowaterfalling.com/waterfalls/bridalveilcolumbia.shtml Rosina www.hrastovac.net

Hello! Hans-Hermann Goebel of Germany is trying to connect all the Goebel individuals worldwide. If your last name is GOEBEL or GÖBEL or GEBEL, would you kindly get in touch with me. Thanks, Rosina www.hrastovac.net Goebel ancestry in my blood also.

Hello, if you like German newspapers of Austria-Hungary there are many more (e.g. Pester Lloyd). See http://familia-austria.net/forschung/index.php?title=Historische_Periodica for a list. Greetings Peter -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:31:28 -0500 > Von: "Ruxandra M. Meinze" <CookyRM@yahoo.de> > An: "\'Banat List\'" <BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> > Betreff: [BANAT-L] Wiener Zeitung > Hello List, > > > > I was just thinking that this link might be of use to someone else too. It > is an archive of the Wiener Zeitung and you can look up different years > and > read whole news papers. Problem is, you have to be able to read German ;-) > > > > http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno?aid=wrz > > > > Ruxandra Meinze > > Watertown, NY > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message -- Peter Haas Carabelligasse 5/184, A-1210 Wien, Austria http://members.chello.at/familie.haas/ Reg. Linux User #17202 main(){printf(&unix["%%str\151d!\012"],(unix)["Peter"]+"Haas"-'c');} GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

With the new D-Z FB in hand, I'm plowing ahead on other fronts. Can anyone perform a Grabatz look-up for me? I'm not even sure what years the Grabatz records cover or what form they are in. If you can help, please reply directly to me off-list at charlietiller@hotmail.com . I am looking for the surname TILLER. My particular interest is in Friedrich TILLER (born about 1830) and his sires, but I'd be glad to hear of any relations identified. My humble thanks, Charlie Tiller Charlie Tiller charlietiller@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/