Hello - As a result of the help from many on this list over the past month, I have made significant progress over the past few weeks in tracking my Kapolnek ancestors in the Banat. I am now in a position where I am 'stuck' in a few places, and was hoping to lean on this group for some advice on how to proceed in passing thru these issues. * The first 'Kapolnek' that I have been able to find was Franz Kapolnek, born in Mastort in 1777, died in Elemir in 1830. An alternate last name for him was 'Kaplanek'. (this is referenced from the Deutsch-Etschka-Sigmundfeld-Rodolfsgard Family book. A couple of questions: o Could he have changed his last name? Why are both Kapolnek and Kaplanek listed for him? o What sources would I look at to trace further back to his ancestors? Would I look for Kaplanek or Kapolnek? Both? * According to the Ellis Island records, my great-great grandfather Georg Kapolnek was born in Sigmundfeld in 1867, married in Lazerfeld and emigrated to the US in 1911. Although there were many Kapolneks in Sigmundfeld and Lazerfeld during my great/great grandfather's lifetime, I can tie neither him nor his brother Josef to any parent. In the family record in the Lazarfeld family book by Repp, in the place where parents are typically listed, they list his brother. What other sources would be recommended for me to look into to try to locate his parents? I appreciate any advice that anyone can give as I continue to solve this puzzle. Thank you, Tom Kapolnek

Some interesting historical facts for your summer reading: http://www.exulanten.com/index.html See you all in Mt. Angel, Rosina www.hrastovac.net

Searching for information on Franceska BOHN/BON, born around 1840-1860, married Michael KARFISEL. The family lived in Ruskodorf, but need to find out where Franceska was born and who her parents were. Thanks, Chris

Anton Bambusch, son of Johann Bambusch and Magdalena Lampl, *18 Jan 1900 (probably in Mott or Regent ND), + Feb 1987 Mott married Anna Roth. Does anyone have more details on Anna Roth? When and where was she born? Who were her parents? When was their marriage? Dave Dreyer

Hi Delores your 1st JUNGHEIM Ancestor was Heinrich B-Lothringen in Grabatz his Son went to Nagy Beckskerec dosen"t show anymore except his Mother Died in Nagy Becskerec. Bye George Adam(s)

Try this: http://home.arcor.de/klein-betschkerek/Familienbuch_KB/Namen_A-Z/K/Klemenz.HTM The previous link information was doubled. Fran Matkovich ----- Original Message ----- From: Harold Bratsko To: BANAT-L@rootsweb.com ; Robert & MaryAnn Young Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Klemenz history from Banat Mary Ann, Below is a link to the info you want. http://home.arcor.de/klein-betschkerek/Familienbuch_KB/Namen_A-Z/K/Klemenz.HTM<http://home.arcor.de/klein-betschkerek/Familienbuch_KB/Namen_A-Z/K/Klemenz.HTM> Harold ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert & MaryAnn Young<mailto:rm.young@sasktel.net> To: BANAT-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:43 AM Subject: [BANAT-L] Klemenz history from Banat Would anyone that has access to the Banat Familienbuch please check to see if there are any Michael or John "Klemenz" families listed from Kleinbetschkerek/Kisbecskerck today the name is Becicherecu Mic in Romania? The Klemenz family moved to Canada in 1905-6 and settled in Indian Head, Saskatchewan. Any assistance would be most appreciated. Thanks. MA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:BANAT-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Frank, There are two listings for Dornstauders in the Stephansfeld Familenbuch: 41.001,0 DORNSTAUDER Jakob S 252 1. oo 1907 S Andress Katharina * 19.05.1880 S + 27.09.1931 S E: 19.06,0 A 42.002,0 DORNSTAUDER Josef GKi, Co * GKi 1. oo Milles Anna * 30.01.1925 S E: 51.032,0 M KINDER: 1 Peter * - Co 1 Heidi * - Co My interpretation: Jakob Dornstauder (family no. 41.001,0) (house number? 252 Stefansfeld) was married in 1907 in Stefansfeld to Katharina Andress. Katharina was born on May 5, 1880 in Stefansfeld and died on Sept. 27, 1931 in Stefansfeld. Her parents' family no. is 19.06,0 A. Josef Dornstauder (family no. 42.002,0) was born in Gross Kikinda and also lived in Coburg, Oeslau. He married Anna Milles. Anna was born on Jan. 30, 1925 in Stefansfeld. Anna's parents' family no. is 51.032,0 M. They had two children born in Coburg: Peter and Heidi. Best regards, Dolores Barber researching Jungheim in Gross Betschkerek On Aug 17, 2010, at 11:16 AM, Frank Dornstauder wrote: > Hello Listers: > > Would someone who has the Stefanfeld Familienbuch please check to > see it there are any "Dornstauders" listed? > > Any assistance would be most appreciated. Thanks > > Frank D > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Mary Ann, Below is a link to the info you want. http://home.arcor.de/klein-betschkerek/Familienbuch_KB/Namen_A-Z/K/Klemenz.HTM<http://home.arcor.de/klein-betschkerek/Familienbuch_KB/Namen_A-Z/K/Klemenz.HTM> Harold ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert & MaryAnn Young<mailto:rm.young@sasktel.net> To: BANAT-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:43 AM Subject: [BANAT-L] Klemenz history from Banat Would anyone that has access to the Banat Familienbuch please check to see if there are any Michael or John "Klemenz" families listed from Kleinbetschkerek/Kisbecskerck today the name is Becicherecu Mic in Romania? The Klemenz family moved to Canada in 1905-6 and settled in Indian Head, Saskatchewan. Any assistance would be most appreciated. Thanks. MA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:BANAT-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Would anyone that has access to the Banat Familienbuch please check to see if there are any Michael or John "Klemenz" families listed from Kleinbetschkerek/Kisbecskerck today the name is Becicherecu Mic in Romania? The Klemenz family moved to Canada in 1905-6 and settled in Indian Head, Saskatchewan. Any assistance would be most appreciated. Thanks. MA

Hello Listers: Would someone who has the Stefanfeld Familienbuch please check to see it there are any "Dornstauders" listed? Any assistance would be most appreciated. Thanks Frank D

How do you correct a family book? The Gajdobra book (Batschka) lists my father, Michael Drobnek, as being born in Gajdobra. However, my Dad was born in Trenton, NJ, in June , 1925, and I have his birth certificate to prove it! Now, some summary documents are starting to pick this up, and I'd like to stop that at the source. Any ideas? Pat Drobnek

Hi.Marylyn in the 1828 Census for Ernesthausen were TILL Caspar and Adam,HEE Nicolaus and HOFFMAN Petrus this was a Land Census from Martha CONNOR only Names,Ernesthausen was settled in 1828 so this must been taken just as they settled the Village the Church they Attended was in Sartcha or Setchan they have some Records at the Family History Library . Bye George Adam(s)

At http://books.google.com/books?id=jrVfdmUQMpwC&dq=KOHL,+Austria.+Vienna,+Hungary,+Bohemia+and+the+Danube&source=gbs_navlinks_s is Johann Georg KOHL's, “Austria: Vienna, Prague, Hungary, Bohemia, and the Danube; Galicia, Styria, Moravia, Bukovina, and the Military Frontier”, Chapman and Hall, 1844, 532 pages. It contains a "condensed translation" of J.[ohann] G.[eorg] KOHL, “Hundert Tage auf Reisen in den österreichischen Staaten”, Vierter Theil. “Reise in Ungarn”. Zweite Abtheilung. “Das Banat, die Pusten und der Plattensee”, Dresden und Leipzig, in der Arnoldischen Buchhandlung, Druck von B. G. TAUBNER in Leipzig, 1842, X + 503 + [1] pg. At page 305, the following is written about the "Shokatzes" from Rekas: “The largest village between Lugos and Temesvar, is Rekas, an extensive colony, mostly inhabited by Germans, though partly also by another people called here "Shohatzes". I inquired who these might be, whether they were perhaps Rascians or Servians? The answer was in the negative. One said they were Roman Catholics from Illyria, another that they were baptized Turks; another and a better founded notion seemed to be that they were Dalmatians. I mention these various opinions merely to show the confusion of nations that has taken place in Hungary.” I strongly suggest a close reading of this book because contains a lot of info regarding Banat! On Johann Georg KOHL - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Georg_Kohl S o r i n http://www.genealogy.ro/contributions.htm

There are also Horvath in Tomsdorf, Hetin, Ebendorf, Tobe, Nakodorf, Schabe, Pardan, Ruskodorf, Kis-Rokus, Sadan, Gottlob. Some later settled in Deutsch Zerne, as listed in the Deutsch Zerne Familienbuch. Fran Matkovich ----- Original Message ----- From: leengeo@gmail.com To: Banat List Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Lorenz and Anna are tough to track. My instincts tell me that Anna's origins are most likely in Elisenhain or Kriva Bara . Of course as researchers we want the proof, and to date I have been unable to locate that info. Since the records for Kriva Bara are in an archive and inaccessible to me it is even more disappointing. This past year I reviewed the records for Gross Gaj and found there with several additional children for Lorenz and Anna. There are other Horvaths ( Horwat ) in these records as well. Because I only extracted those records of interest to me there may be additional information of interest to others. The DVDs for Gross Gaj were purchased through the Zichydorf Village Association. Eileen Lund-Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dreyer " < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> To: " Banat List" < BANAT -L@ rootsweb .com> Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 12:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [ BANAT -L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka . He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain . These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf , and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs . In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain . Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing. The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD. The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course. There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz. The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right. There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname. No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs , As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure. Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834. However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz . It was not in Josefsdorf . I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf - Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna HN 308 1 Stefan *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855 +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz HN 238 ex Etschka . Juryman in Elisenhain . To New York 1893 *1836 +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12 +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836 +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais , OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ , wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof , son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents. Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204 +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73 +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283 +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280 +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia , dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER (ex Novo Selo ) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra , Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH (ex Novo Selo ) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj , ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo , oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH . 3 Maria Anna *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg . *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@ suddenlink .net> To: < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall > Hey Dave: > Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath > is from Deutsche Etschka . Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the > EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from > Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. > I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka > book and if they could do a lookup for me. I am hoping this record will > clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his > siblings. According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not > have the exact date. > I would appreciate any help. > Dave Weinfurtner > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

NEUERSCHEINUNG - NEUERSCHEINUNG Familienbuch der Katholischen Pfarrgemeinden HEUFELD-MASSDORF im Banat 1895-1944, David Dreyer, 808 N. Claremont, San Mateo, Calif 94401, USA and Karen Dalton Preston, 2777 Turtle Head Peak Dr, Las Vegas, Nevada 89135 USA, Herausgegeben von der Arbeitsgemeinschaft für Veröffentlichung Banater Familienbücher – AVBF, Villingen-Schwenningen. 2010, Schriftenreihe zur donauschwäbischen Herkunftsforschung Band 166, Deutsche Ortssippenbücher Band B 490, Zentralstelle für Personen- und Familiengeschichte D-60509 Frankfurt am Main, 414 Seiten + Karte und Ortspläne, Preis 25.-€ Bezug: Dave Dreyer, 808 N. Claremont, San Mateo, Calif 94401, USA ddreyer@pacbell.net, Karen Dalton Preston, 2777 Turtle Head Peak Dr, Las Vegas, Nevada 89135 karen@golden-hills.com Philipp Lung, Schwarzaweg 18, D-78054 808 N. Claremont, San Mateo, Calif 94401, USA and Karen Dalton Preston, 2777 Turtle Head Peak Dr, Las Vegas, Nevada 89135illingen-Schweningen, Europa, philipp.lung@t-online.de Die Autoren David Dreyer und Karen Dalton Preston legen zusammen mit dem Herausgeber eine nicht alltägliche Veröffentlichung vor. Zum einen erhält eine ehemalige Ortsgemeinschaft aus dem (heutigen serbischen) Banat ein Familienbuch in englischer Sprache zum anderen ist nicht die Ortsbesiedlung von den Anfängen bis zu einem bestimmten Jahr sondern die Zeitspanne der letzten 50 Jahre der deutschen Bewohner in ihrer alten Heimat aus vorhandenem Quellenmaterial dargestellt. Für die Zeit 1770 bis 1852 existiert bereits das Familienbuch von J. Kühn (2004). Für die Familienforschung fehlen nun die Jahre 1852 bis 1895. Der Grund hiefür, das Quellenmaterial – sprich Matrikelbücher – ist (noch) nicht zugänglich. Dafür wurden aber akribisch Quellen genutzt, die Hinweise in den bereits veröffentlichten Familienbücher der umliegenden Ortschaften, so wie Quellen, die in den USA bekannt sind, z. B. Kalender mit Namenverzeichnisse und Adressangaben. Aus genanntem Grund tauchen notgedrungen im Familienbuch unzählige Lücken auf, d. h. fehlende Personaldaten oder einfach nur „errechnete“ Daten für angeführte Namen. Das fordert vom Leser / Nutzer einerseits Ergänzung andererseits gütige Nachsicht. Es drängen sich die Fragen auf: Soll ein solcher ‚Lückentext’ als Familienbuch veröffentlicht werden? Kann man das noch als Familienbuch bezeichnen? Die Antwort ist eindeutig JA. Jede Lücke, die mit solch einer Veröffentlichung geschlossen wird, ist dem Familienforscher nach jahrelangem Warten eine willkommene Hilfe und wird dankbar entgegen genommen, wenn auch mit verhaltenem Groll. Der Aufbau des Bandes entspricht den Empfehlungen zur Veröffentlichung eines Familienbuches. Im Familienteil ist eine übersichtliche Anordnung des Familienblocks mit weiterführenden Hinweisen. Sind auch die Angaben in englischer Sprache, so dürfte ein „nur“ deutschsprechender Familienforscher diese nach einem entsprechenden wohlwollenden Einlesen verstehen und die Namen und Daten für seine private Forschung entnehmen können. Entgegenkommen zeigen die beiden Autoren dadurch, dass sie die Vornamen nicht in Englische übertragen haben. Dem Hauptteil folgen Listen. In der Auflistung der Ehefrauen sind mehr Verweise als üblich, was drucktechnisch gut gelöst ist. Das Ortsregister enthält lapidare, mehrsprachige (deutsch, englisch, ungarisch) Erklärungen. Es wird aber auf die Ortsbenennungen in der jeweiligen Landessprache verzichtet. Im Verzeichnis der Familiennamen werden auch die Mädchennamen der Ehefrauen, ja sogar die der Eltern / Mütter, die keine eigene Familiennummer haben, berücksichtigt. Damit ist der Suche sicherlich ein Dienst getan. Die Schiffspassagierliste enthält brauchbare Angaben und Hinweise für die Bewegung der Dorfbewohner auf ihrer Arbeitssuche. Mit jeder Neuerscheinung wird die Liste der „Bereits veröffentlichten Banater Familienbücher und andere familienkundliche Quellen“ länger und gibt wissentlich dem interessierten Familienforscher eine geschlossene Übersicht der Information. Die mühevolle Arbeit der beiden Autoren David Dreyer und Karen Dalton Preston wird durch die Veröffentlichung ihres Familienbuches belohnt. Sie verdienen Anerkennung und Dank. Sie haben einen kleinen Teil der Banater Bevölkerung vor der Vergessenheit bewahrt. Herr David Dreyer hat seiner erfolgreichen Tätigkeit als Erschließer von familienkundlichen Quellen ein weiteres umfangreiches Material hinzugesetzt und seine Verdienste vermehrt. Dem Herausgeber ist ein ehrliches Lob für den Mut auszusprechen, den er dadurch zeigt, dass er sich für die Veröffentlichung von Familienbüchern tatkräftig einsetzt, von denen er nie weiß, ob unterm Strich mehr als ein magerer Spargroschen steht. Das Familienbuch ist empfehlenswert, verdient Beachtung und Ergänzung. Nikolaus Horn

Yes, they are pretty similar. They are both Roman Catholics. They both live in Vojvodina and Batchka. In Hungary you can find Bunjevci in larger numbers around the city of Baja. In Serbia in Szabadka, Zombor and Bács. (Sorry for the Hungarian names, this is how I know them, look for the other name in the language you want). They came to Hungary at about the same time as the Sokac, but they arrived from Dalmatia and Hercegovina (not Bosnia). Their traditional costume is different, their dialect comes from Dalmatia . Until the end of the second world war they considered themselves a separate ethnic group, in Hungary they were registered as such. Now in Hungary they are washed together with the Croats, and Bunjevci is considered a subgroup. In Serbia they are registered as a separate ethnic group. Their number on the two sides of the Serbian-Hungarian border is about 100 000. Boglárka From: John M Michels [mailto:JohnMMichels@msn.com] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 0:22 To: Banat-L@rootsweb.com; Boglarka Lazar Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Sokatz, Sokac Boglárka, Most of what you said about the Šokci sounds a lot like what I know about the Bunjevci. How are they different? John Michels Spokane ----- Original Message ----- From: Boglarka Lazar <mailto:strombus@t-online.hu> To: Banat-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: [BANAT-L] Sokatz, Sokac Dear Peter, I haven't found any reference to the Sokatz being decendants of Serbs as Nick Tullius wrote! As I live in a region where we have Sokác people, maybe my information is more accurate. Sokác people (Šokci in Croatian or the same word, just with Cyrillic writing in Serbian: Шокци) is a Southern Slavic ethnic group living in Southern Hungary, (in larger numbers around Mohács - which is the second largest town in Baranya county), in parts of Batchka near the Danube that now belong to Serbia (Szond, Bácsbéreg, Monostorszeg, Zombor), and in Croatia, in certain parts of Slavonia. Their number is about twenty thousand together in Hungary and Serbia (I could not find information about Croatia). Nearly all the Sokatz are Roman Catholics. They moved to the Southern part of Hungary (then these mentioned places were all parts of Hungary) from current Bosnia-Hercegovina during the Turkish times, when these areas became scarcely inhabited or uninhabited. In parts of Bosnia the Catholic minority is still called Sokatz. The Sokác traditional costume looks oriental, similar to what Balkanic people (Serbians, Bosnians, Bulgarians) wear, rather than what Croatians wear. But the Sokác dialect is closer to Croatian than Serbian. As they are Roman Catholic like the Croats, since the end of the 19th century they have been identifying themselves as a subgroup of Croats, but have a strong sense of being a different, independent ethnic group. I found this page four you in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0okci Boglárka

Dear Peter, I haven't found any reference to the Sokatz being decendants of Serbs as Nick Tullius wrote! As I live in a region where we have Sokác people, maybe my information is more accurate. Sokác people (Šokci in Croatian or the same word, just with Cyrillic writing in Serbian: Шокци) is a Southern Slavic ethnic group living in Southern Hungary, (in larger numbers around Mohács - which is the second largest town in Baranya county), in parts of Batchka near the Danube that now belong to Serbia (Szond, Bácsbéreg, Monostorszeg, Zombor), and in Croatia, in certain parts of Slavonia. Their number is about twenty thousand together in Hungary and Serbia (I could not find information about Croatia). Nearly all the Sokatz are Roman Catholics. They moved to the Southern part of Hungary (then these mentioned places were all parts of Hungary) from current Bosnia-Hercegovina during the Turkish times, when these areas became scarcely inhabited or uninhabited. In parts of Bosnia the Catholic minority is still called Sokatz. The Sokác traditional costume looks oriental, similar to what Balkanic people (Serbians, Bosnians, Bulgarians) wear, rather than what Croatians wear. But the Sokác dialect is closer to Croatian than Serbian. As they are Roman Catholic like the Croats, since the end of the 19th century they have been identifying themselves as a subgroup of Croats, but have a strong sense of being a different, independent ethnic group. I found this page four you in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0okci Boglárka

Than there were VLAHI. Who were those? Rosina > Boglárka, > > Most of what you said about the Šokci sounds a lot like what I know about > the Bunjevci. How are they different? > > John Michels > Spokane > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Boglarka Lazar<mailto:strombus@t-online.hu> > To: Banat-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:Banat-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 3:11 PM > Subject: [BANAT-L] Sokatz, Sokac > > > Dear Peter, > > I haven't found any reference to the Sokatz being decendants of Serbs as > Nick Tullius wrote! As I live in a region where we have Sokác people, > maybe my information is more accurate. > > Sokác people (Šokci in Croatian or the same word, just with Cyrillic > writing in Serbian: Шокци) is a Southern Slavic ethnic group living in > Southern Hungary, (in larger numbers around Mohács - which is the second > largest town in Baranya county), in parts of Batchka near the Danube that > now belong to Serbia (Szond, Bácsbéreg, Monostorszeg, Zombor), and in > Croatia, in certain parts of Slavonia. Their number is about twenty > thousand together in Hungary and Serbia (I could not find information > about Croatia). > > Nearly all the Sokatz are Roman Catholics. They moved to the Southern > part of Hungary (then these mentioned places were all parts of Hungary) > from current Bosnia-Hercegovina during the Turkish times, when these areas > became scarcely inhabited or uninhabited. In parts of Bosnia the Catholic > minority is still called Sokatz. > > The Sokác traditional costume looks oriental, similar to what Balkanic > people (Serbians, Bosnians, Bulgarians) wear, rather than what Croatians > wear. But the Sokác dialect is closer to Croatian than Serbian. As they > are Roman Catholic like the Croats, since the end of the 19th century they > have been identifying themselves as a subgroup of Croats, but have a > strong sense of being a different, independent ethnic group. > > I found this page four you in Wikipedia: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0okci<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0okci> > > Boglárka > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:BANAT-request@rootsweb.com> with the > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Boglárka, Most of what you said about the Šokci sounds a lot like what I know about the Bunjevci. How are they different? John Michels Spokane ----- Original Message ----- From: Boglarka Lazar<mailto:strombus@t-online.hu> To: Banat-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:Banat-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: [BANAT-L] Sokatz, Sokac Dear Peter, I haven't found any reference to the Sokatz being decendants of Serbs as Nick Tullius wrote! As I live in a region where we have Sokác people, maybe my information is more accurate. Sokác people (Šokci in Croatian or the same word, just with Cyrillic writing in Serbian: Шокци) is a Southern Slavic ethnic group living in Southern Hungary, (in larger numbers around Mohács - which is the second largest town in Baranya county), in parts of Batchka near the Danube that now belong to Serbia (Szond, Bácsbéreg, Monostorszeg, Zombor), and in Croatia, in certain parts of Slavonia. Their number is about twenty thousand together in Hungary and Serbia (I could not find information about Croatia). Nearly all the Sokatz are Roman Catholics. They moved to the Southern part of Hungary (then these mentioned places were all parts of Hungary) from current Bosnia-Hercegovina during the Turkish times, when these areas became scarcely inhabited or uninhabited. In parts of Bosnia the Catholic minority is still called Sokatz. The Sokác traditional costume looks oriental, similar to what Balkanic people (Serbians, Bosnians, Bulgarians) wear, rather than what Croatians wear. But the Sokác dialect is closer to Croatian than Serbian. As they are Roman Catholic like the Croats, since the end of the 19th century they have been identifying themselves as a subgroup of Croats, but have a strong sense of being a different, independent ethnic group. I found this page four you in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0okci<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0okci> Boglárka ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:BANAT-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Absolutely amazing! Thank you! John "We do not remember days, we remember moments." - Cesare Pavese On Aug 14, 2010, banat-request@rootsweb.com wrote: Today's Topics: 1. Re: House construction (Cathy Deschu) 2. Rekasch, Temesrekas, Secas (Boglarka Lazar) 3. FW: Rekasch, Temesrekas, Recas (Nick Tullius) 4. re Lugosch FB CD (Marilyn Fedewa) 5. Ich denke oft an Piroschka (Dave Dreyer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 02:45:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Cathy Deschu <cjdeschu@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] House construction To: Eve <evebrown@gmail.com>, "banat-l@rootsweb.com" <banat-l@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <371578.54691.qm@web31805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What a wonderful site. Thanks for posting it. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:03 PM, Eve <evebrown@gmail.com> wrote: Perhaps this will help Elinor The Typical Danube Swabian Home http://www.dvhh.org/heritage/village_life/house/index.htm Includes: House Floor Plans Settlement Plans Property Lots Cost of a Settlers House Home Furnishings Old Lighting Used Typical Swabian Kitchen Whitewashing Daily Chores Water Sources Building & Maintenance Front Court Yard Back Court Yard Salasch Stenciling Enjoy, Eve On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Elinor <eantis@verizon.net> wrote: I am writing a book/booklet for my husbands family on their family history. I am also trying to include whatever I can about life in the Banat in the early years. My question for now is: How were the houses actually constructed? Their house in Ernsthausen was apparently one big room with two windows on the front. I've seen pictures and there appear to be houses with either one or two windows across the front. Were they built of some kind of concrete blocks, or some kind of adobe type material? What were and how were the roofs constructed? Thank you for any kind of information. Elinor Antis ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Syrmia Regional Coordinator http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:30:38 +0200 From: "Boglarka Lazar" <strombus@t-online.hu> Subject: [BANAT-L] Rekasch, Temesrekas, Secas To: "'Banat List'" <BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <003e01cb3afc$7bd4bbe0$737e33a0$@hu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" FYI According to the 1910 census Rekasch had 4321 inhabitants Out of that 1832 were German, 1236 Hungarian, 970 Sokatz, 215 Romanian. Religion: 3965 Roman Catholic, 230 Greek Orthodox, 53 Jewish. Sokatz is a Southern Slavic nation, they were Roman Catholic. Best regards, Bogl?rka ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:05:29 -0400 From: "Nick Tullius" <ntullius@sympatico.ca> Subject: [BANAT-L] FW: Rekasch, Temesrekas, Recas To: <Banat-L@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP32B9F6EA8529B558286ADBB1980@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" According to information published at http://www.kulturraum-banat.de/ Rekasch was first mentioned in 1359. Apparently it always had a truly multicultural population. Some more recent population numbers are as follows: In 1930: 4210 inhabitants, out of which 1687 (40.1%) ethnic Germans In 1992: 4905 inhabitants, out of which 202 (4.1%) ethnic Germans. Note that a large number of Germans left their villages and the only homes they ever knew after the fall of Ceausescu in 1989. According to a story, dated 06/15/1859, by Stol N?nyi, village notary in a Batschka village, and self-described as "schokazisch": "... The Schokazen or Schokatzen, Sok?cok in Hungarian, ?okci in Serbian, are descendants of late 17th-century Serb refugees from the former southern Hungary and the Raska Herzegovina, a subgroup of ivakian Croats..." I have to correct my perception that they were just simply Croats. Best regards, Nick Tullius -----Original Message----- From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Boglarka Lazar Sent: 13-Aug-10 11:31 To: 'Banat List' Subject: [BANAT-L] Rekasch, Temesrekas, Secas FYI According to the 1910 census Rekasch had 4321 inhabitants Out of that 1832 were German, 1236 Hungarian, 970 Sokatz, 215 Romanian. Religion: 3965 Roman Catholic, 230 Greek Orthodox, 53 Jewish. Sokatz is a Southern Slavic nation, they were Roman Catholic. Best regards, Bogl?rka ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:10:57 -0400 From: Marilyn Fedewa <mhfedewa@comcast.net> Subject: [BANAT-L] re Lugosch FB CD To: BANAT-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <AANLkTinXEy0hbGy070EHxbPk_ZAVD3qCNaDpdzuRUAdf@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, I guess this is for Dave Dreyer. Is there a USD price when ordering the Lugosch CD through you? Primarily, though, I wonder based on what you said about Lugosch being an important administrative center, and one of the earliest settled places in the Banat, if I have no known family activity there, would that just be a total shot in the dark for me to get it? Thanks, Marilyn (Searching HEH, HOFFMANN, DILL/TILL in Ernsthausen; CHRIST, GESTRICH in Hatzfeld) ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 20:51:04 -0700 From: "Dave Dreyer" <ddreyer@pacbell.net> Subject: [BANAT-L] Ich denke oft an Piroschka To: "Banat List" <BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <C6A240E1A6B042B489929C5FAD40FBB0@D99J3Q21> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some years ago we had an extensive discussion of the classic German film, "Ich denke oft an Piroschka". This movie was filmed in the Banat about 1953 and recounts a visit of a German student with a family in the Banat. It contains many scenes which illustrate Banat life in the interwar years. At the time this matter came up on the list it was a trial to find a VHS source of the film. Dolores Barber tells me that the film is now available on DVD through German Amazon. Dave Dreyer ------------------------------ To contact the BANAT list administrator, send an email to BANAT-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the BANAT mailing list, send an email to BANAT@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of BANAT Digest, Vol 5, Issue 220 *************************************