T.(emes) Kenez = German: Knes / Romanian: Satchinez / Hungarian: Temeskenez, Knez / Variants: Knees, Knies GenealogyRO Group http://www.genealogy.ro http://www.genealogy.ro/contributions.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------- .Genealogical Research & Probate Investigations Full research capabilities for Banat, Transylvania & Romania ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Evensen" To: "Banat" <BANAT@rootsweb. Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 Subject: [BANAT-L] Ortssippenbuch Billed > In the Ortssippenbuch Billed there is an abbreviations for a village > T.kenez. Any idea what that stands for? Thanks,

Bill; Yes, I got the same message. This is announcing an illustrated book coauthored by Martha about memorial sites of Germans in the Banat, Syrmien and Batschka, 1944-1948 including cemeteries, 68 pp. Presumably it includes discussion of all the places where excutations and the like occurred. The introduction is in English. I am not sure which Prohaska book you are referring to. He has a series of 3 books, that I know of, on Schoendorf. The first one, entitled "Chronik Schoendorf" contains a lot of the miscellaneous stuff as you describe as well as the early Schoendorf KB abstractions. It is a weighty volume. Prohaska lives outside of Chicago and I have not heard from him for a year or two. He still owes me for some AVBF books we sent to him. I think he was in ill health anyway so I am not about to bother him. He bought every Banat book he could lay his hands on and he was in this game long before I started so he must have accumulated an extensive Banat collection. I have copies of his three books but am reluctant to put the first volume it in the mail since it weighs so much. If you are down in San Mateo and want to stop by I can loan it to you. But I must say that most of the items are copies of the orgional documents and mostly of historical interest and background with limited direct family history data. The KB abstractions are organized is an inconvienent way(the whole book is not especially well organized) and it would not be out of place to try and organize the KB data into family blocks in family book format. There was recent discussion on the AKdFF list of (next to last) Stader volume----Vol VII, the one covering the S names. Apparently the work of getting a ms ready for the printers has been dumped on poor Anite Villnow. As she says, she has been working on it for two years now, "rund um die Uhr"( around the clock), including evenings and weekends. I gather her goal is to get it finished sometime this fall. Th task is greater than anyone should have to bear. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: WKnuttel@aol.com To: ddreyer@pacbell.net Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:37 PM Subject: Fwd: Neuerscheinung/Nova knjiga....and Prohaska-Schondorf Hi Dave, Don't know if you rec'd this from Marta, but if you did I was wondering if you knew what the heck this book is!! Unfortunately they attached a .jpg about it, so one can't copy and paste into a translator to get a sense of it. It seems to be a treatise on the treatment of Donauschwabs during WWII, but maybe there's more? Also, do you know if Prohaska-Schondorf's book on the German Emigration to Banat 1766-1804 has ever been extracted? Seems like it would be a great source, but the only "copy" I've ever seen is LDS microfilm and the filming was so bad you can barely read anything--and, of course, the book is just an assemblage of lists, so it's difficult to access the data. Any chance you know where a copy can be borrowed or otherwise accessed? Finally, have you heard anything on the last volume of Stader? I hope this finds you well! Not sure if you saw my post about the D. Zerne FB, but there was a tantalizing clue there that another Sigmund family was in the area in the early 1800s --now I just have to figure out where the Apollonia Sigmund listed there was from to see if I bread down the brick wall! Best, Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: marta.istvan@yahoo.com To: sigrid-liebenspacher-helm@t-online.de CC: Peter-Blaha@t-online.de, backiforum@eunet.rs, lmandler@tippnet.rs, larrybug@roadrunner.com, helidi@web.de, peterbarche@live.de, xbastian.gebhardtx@googlemail.com, mschank@web.de, Reinhold.Benedik@t-online.de, parea5o7@live.ca, WKnuttel@aol.com, elfimatz@yahoo.de, zszileti@eunet.rs, perina@ping.at, reinhard.neumeier@chello.at, RudynmiStumpf@aol.com, MarRemsing@aol.com, philipp.lung@t-online.de, Oswald.Hartmann@t-online.de, hess-ma@web.de, GerhardPaul@aol.com, frankd22@sasktel.net, ev.kirche.belgrad@web.de, blujic@globalnet.hr, becka@ptt.rs, gerry@mnsi.net, hessendorf@ptt.rs, pedja666999@yahoo.com, jw@zuum-net.de, marko.simek@hotmail.com, hmweinzierl@gmail.com, marwei@kabelbw.de, hog-ruma@gmx.de, wagner@kabelnet.at, walter@peischl-online.de, mitopel@nadlanu.com, mostart@eunet.rs, sjeverac.stipe@gmail.com, schmee@neobee.net, livand66@gmail.com, andreas7mueller@web.de, hans.supritz@donauschwaben.de, marinko_visekruna@hotmail.com, micko44@optusnet.com.au, sdp.sm@ptt.rs, iuris@ptt.rs, Wolfgang.WAGNER@bmeia.gv.at, danijel-papez@t-online.de, radikova2001@yahoo.de, fenster@neobee.net, bognartv@bigpond.com, weihnachtsbrief@gmx.de, mvukcevic@fil.bg.ac.rs, verein@franztal.at, otto.tschepella@t-online.de, gottfried@stemmer.co.at, robert.froehlich@t-online.de, Magda.Fritz@t-online.de, hartmutflohr@arcor.de, europesrem@yahoo.com, viatucic@eunet.rs, rudolf.reimann@vloe.at, nadezdarad@gmail.com, nevenage@yahoo.com, susanne.paulus@chello.at, slovak46@gmail.com, deutsches.wort@gmail.com, bibo@ecpwireless.net, amay@mmay.at, marta.istvan@yahoo.com, branislavlazin@yahoo.com, josef.lang@freenet.de, THrabowy@aol.com, hans_kopp@hotmail.com, josefbtz@aol.com, nkokusz@tele2.at, jerger.josef@t-online.de, Vladimirigl@aon.at, michaelhild@arcor.de, rudolf@hastenteufel.com, werner.harasym@gmx.de, pia.perina@inode.at, josef.frach@utanet.at, helmerwer@gmx.de, alois.epner@aon.at, a.ellmer@aon.at, leisendur@t-online.de, dsns.irig@gmail.com, service@jomarsoftcorp.com, peter@binzberger.de Sent: 3/11/2010 9:08:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time Subj: Neuerscheinung/Nova knjiga Bitte beachten Sie diese Neuerscheinung! Das Autorenteam Molimo obratite pažnju na ovu novu knjigu! Autorski tim

Hello to all, Sorry, gave you a wrong URL. For "The war against German Culture" article by Dr. Schemm please go to: http://www.hrastovac.net/historical/Schemm-War-against-German-Culture.htm Thanks, Rosina www.hrastovac.net

Hello Jean, To order 'The Forgotten Genocide' DVD please go directly to: http://www.molidorf.com/ForgottenGenocide.htm Dr. Schemm's 'The War against the German Culture" URL: http://www.hrastovac.net/historical/TheForgottenGenocide.htm Rosina www.hrastovac.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean F. Stoeber" <Ocedar1@bellsouth.net> > Rosina - lost some e-mails with computer trouble. Could you repeat your > e-mail with the information for ordering the disc for above? Thank you. > Jean Stoeber > > To read Dr. Schemm's "The War against the German Culture" please go to > www.hrastovac.net and look via the BULLETIN BOARD for 'The Forgotten > Genocide' > > Warm greetings from Vancouver Island, > > Rosina >

In the Ortssippenbuch Billed there is an abbreviations for a village T.kenez. Any idea what that stands for? Thanks, Robert Evensen

I I have received records on my great grandfather Friedrich BAUTZ.of Kowatschi from some really great fellow searchers. I am thrilled dates/ places and name of great grandmother Emalie Kirschner...all fit. I have seen many different name/spelling variations, but am stumped with this variation: PAUTZ / PANCZ / PENZER these variants came from the St. Andreas book. Also found that the moved to Kowatschi in 1844 from Saderlach. wow....Pautz to Penzer seems such a long stretch... my question:....Do Pautz and Penzer have similiar meanings??? I am interested in any ideas about these two seemingly separate names. thanks. Linda Bautz McKenna

Hello Danube Swabians 'cousins'! A hearty congratulations to Dr. BRIGITTE NEARY (one or our wonderful Donauschwaben) of University of South Carolina Upstate, for receiving the Human Rights Award by the South Carolina Senate and presented by Senator Glenn G. Reese this past January 14th, 2010 for her work on us, the Danube Swabians. Dr. Neary, we are proud of you! Rosina T. Schmidt www.hrastovac.net P.S. thank you Anita Pare for putting it to out attention!

Hello Rita, Gee, my ancestors spoke a Hessian dialect not only in the Swabian Turkey, but also in Slavonia and even when they finally ended in the Black Forest, Germany. What I wanted to say, each of our original settler villages had a different dialect, as they usually settled in groups from a different region: Black Forest, where they speak Allemanisch, Palentine region where they speak Platt Deutsch (if I am correct), from Alsace where the dialect is Alsatian, etc. Least of them were directly from Schwaben! It is only us that call all those dialects 'Schwob', and believe me quiet a few Schwaben are furious with us, as 'our' Schwob dialect has no resemblance to their Schwaben dialect, which they all still speak. Now for High German, or now called 'written German' (Schriftdeutsch) everyone had to learn that language in order to be able to communicate with each other. It is vital to know the difference! And as for what we call our ancestors? "Donauschwaben" is the official name for this youngest Germanic tribe. All the best, Rosina www.hrastovac.net > This is a very good question: what do we call our ancestors? Even just > "German-speaking settlers" could be debated, because they really spoke the > Swabian dialect and had to learn High German. "Germanic settlers?" > > Anway, don't let such quibbles keep you from reading the book. I'll let > you > know when I have a publication date. Thanks for your interest! > > -- Rita

This is a very good question: what do we call our ancestors? Even just "German-speaking settlers" could be debated, because they really spoke the Swabian dialect and had to learn High German. "Germanic settlers?" Anway, don't let such quibbles keep you from reading the book. I'll let you know when I have a publication date. Thanks for your interest! -- Rita

Hi David. It's nice to hear from you. Thanks for contacting your cousin in Germany. Here's where things get a bit weird. My mom's sister, my Aunt Ida, married Joseph Birnstill so we may be distantly related by marriage. Here's what I know about my Uncle Joe's family: Father: Jacob Birnstill born 1882 in Hungary (worked at Anhaeuser Busch in St. Louis ) Mother: Katherine Trudt Grandfather: Joseph Birnstill Grandmother: Elizabeth Meckser My uncle had a brother Jacob and a sister Elizabeth. The names of Joseph, Jacob and Elizabeth are found in just about every Birnstill family I found in St. Louis so it's really hard to get them all straight. The naming pattern makes me think that they are all related. I think that the Strickers and the Birnstills are related as their surnames appear in the anniversary announcement I have for the Strickers as well as one I have for my grandparents. Don't you love a good mystery ? Talk to you soon. Judy David Thas wrote: > Hi Judy, > > It's been a long time. Good to see you are still "attached". > > Three years ago I had the great good fortune to connect with long lost cousins, Anna and Elisabeth Bertram that were born in Giseladorf and married men from Rekasch. One of those fellows is Eriche Stricker, married Elisabeth and the other is Erwin Birnstill, married Anna. So far Erwin and I are the only ones that correspond, he in German and me in English. I use http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ to translate. They all now live in Karlsruhe, Germany. I wrote to Erwin just a while ago and told him of your offer. I don't know if my cousins and Andrew/Marie are related. I'll let you know. Thank you. > > David Thas (Thes) > Elverta, Ca. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Judy Van Dusen > To: banat@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:58 PM > Subject: [BANAT-L] STRICKER surname in St. Louis > > > Hi. > > Is anyone researching the Stricker family in St. Louis? Andrew, from > Giseladorf, and his wife Marie were close friends with my > grandparents. I have a copy of a newspaper article that I would forward > to any descendants. > > Thanks. > > Judy > Elgin, IL > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Dave, Thanks for the tip. I will use your cost-saving method. Hopefully others will make a copy for their own libraries using your technique. Norm Ernst

Hi Judy, It's been a long time. Good to see you are still "attached". Three years ago I had the great good fortune to connect with long lost cousins, Anna and Elisabeth Bertram that were born in Giseladorf and married men from Rekasch. One of those fellows is Eriche Stricker, married Elisabeth and the other is Erwin Birnstill, married Anna. So far Erwin and I are the only ones that correspond, he in German and me in English. I use http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ to translate. They all now live in Karlsruhe, Germany. I wrote to Erwin just a while ago and told him of your offer. I don't know if my cousins and Andrew/Marie are related. I'll let you know. Thank you. David Thas (Thes) Elverta, Ca. ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Van Dusen To: banat@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:58 PM Subject: [BANAT-L] STRICKER surname in St. Louis Hi. Is anyone researching the Stricker family in St. Louis? Andrew, from Giseladorf, and his wife Marie were close friends with my grandparents. I have a copy of a newspaper article that I would forward to any descendants. Thanks. Judy Elgin, IL ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

hi Is anyone living in Bergen? Charles from Lorraine

Judy; You're right Andrew is not in the database. I don't think he came into the U. S. via New York. He was born in Rekasch but was married in Giseladorf. If there is family history information in the article I suggest sending a copy to Josef Michels who is rewriting the Giseladorf familybook at; jomichels@gmx.de Dave Dreyer . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Van Dusen" <jmvandusen@comcast.net> To: <ddreyer@pacbell.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:32 PM Subject: Ship extraction database > Hi Dave. > Going through some paperwork I came across a copy of a newspaper article > (25th anniversary celebration) for a gentleman who came from Giseladorf > and settled in St. Louis. He and his wife Marie were close friends of my > grandparents. > His name was Andrew STRICKER and the article says that he came to America > in 1903. His wife was born in Freeburg, IL. > > I saw some Strickers in your database but did not see Andrew. I found the > family in the 1920 census where Andrew was working at a brewery. There > were quite a few breweries in St. Louis at that time - my grandmother > worked as a bottle capper at one time. > > I thought you might like the information. I'm going to post to the Banat > list that I have a copy of the article if there are any descendants that > may be interested in it. > > Thanks for all you do. > > Judy Van Dusen > Elgin, IL > > >

Norm; I assume you are refering to the Military stuff at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~banatdata/DDB/HomePage.htm No matter, this is the most up-to-date version of file. My suggestion is as follows. Peter Schmidt, if I have it right, has set it up so you can transfer all the files in the military folder in one opperation to a CD. My suggestion is to take the CD to your local copy shop and have them print it out as a book which will work out to be 459 pages. Have them put it in a spiral binding. I find this much better than a bound book. The pages lay flat when it is opened. The local copy shop which I deal with allows me to email them a file, they will print it up and I then only have to make a single trip to pick up and pay for the product. A poor mans "print on demand" operation. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Ernst" <schnitzellover@yahoo.com> To: "David Dreyer" <ddreyer@pacbell.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: Where to buy your book > > Hello Dave! > > I found on line today a copy of your book "Banaters in Austrian Military > Records". Although it was tempting to copy it on my printer, with the > cost of printer ink and paper I thought it wiser to see if I could > purchase a copy. Where could I go to purchase a copy of your book? > It sounds like Rosina is putting together a great line-up for our > Donauschwaben gathering in Mt. Angel again this fall. Looking forward to > being there and seeing you again. > Thanks for you help Dave. > > Norm Ernst > > > >

Hi. Is anyone researching the Stricker family in St. Louis? Andrew, from Giseladorf, and his wife Marie were close friends with my grandparents. I have a copy of a newspaper article that I would forward to any descendants. Thanks. Judy Elgin, IL

Hello to all! As we will recall back in February the St. Louis Community College-Meramec had lecture series about "The Forgotten Genocide". One of the most interesting presenters was Dr. Kearn Schemm Jr., Lawyer, U.S. Diplomat, Human Rights Activist, Vice President German World Alliance/Deutsch Weltallanz and he is generously sharing his excellent presentation "The War on German Culture" with us. Dr. Schemm hopes he might be free during mid September to honour us with another of his presentations at Mt. Angel. That would be wonderful! To read Dr. Schemm's "The War on German Culture" please go to www.hrastovac.net and look via the BULLETIN BOARD for 'The Forgotten Genocide' Warm greetings from Vancouver Island, Rosina

Bonjour Daniel, Your statements need some completions. The colonists coming from Western Europe to Banat in the XVIII century were mainly inhabitants of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation (in German language: Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation; in Latin language: Imperium Romanum Sacrum Nationis Germanicae). The term "Sváb" was used in the papers of Hungarian chancellery at the beginning of XVIII Century to name the colonist which came from Western Europe. Because among the first colonists the majority was coming from the swabian part of the Holly Roman Empire, they were named all as "Sváb" regardless their actual origin. Some of the settlers felt they were Germans [and there are enough documents proving this!] as others felt they were French / Lorraineers. Please note that there is no need for a Germany state to exists to have germans! Only in the second half of the XIX century, from this mixture of settlers [including also italians, etc.] emerged the Banat’s Schwaben. Only in March 1879 the name Schwabe / Schwaben [in the banatic German dialect is Schwob or Schwowe] was use by a journalist in a German newspaper issued in Timisoara to name ONLY the inhabitants of the Banat’s plain villages [not the inhabitants of the cities or those living in the villages from Banat’s mountains!]. So, first others -i.e. the Hungarians, Romanians, Serbs, etc.- named them using this word before they name themselves in this way. The inhabitants of the German villages from Banat gained very late [beginning of the XX century] their self-consciousness as members of an ethnic group living in all Banat [the "Petition von Bogarosch" from 2.10.1849 was an exception of a common view / political enterprise done by the inhabitants of only 13 villages]. Until then, their own “ideological” horizon ended at the horizon of each's village. [this subject need a lot of time - which, unfortunately, I do not have right now! - for composing an complete answer] Best Regards, S o r i n http://www.genealogy.ro/contributions.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel HILAIRE" To: "List BANAT" Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Book preview: Rita Tomkins' From Banat to Bailey Avenue Bonjour Rosina, For sure I'll be interested to read this book. Bur let me try to correct one point in Rita's presentation: Danube Swabians were not German settlers. At the time they settled in Banat, Germany didn't even exist; and those arriving from Lorraine were not french as Lorraine was not yet a part of France. And this is why they were "Swabians"; nothing else but isn't it enough ?! Daniel Hilaire Bordeaux, France. > From: rosina > To: Banat@rootsweb. > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 > Subject: [BANAT-L] Book preview: Rita Tomkins' From Banat to Bailey Avenue > Hello to my Donauschwaben Cousins, > Another book on our DS Leidensweg is forthcoming: From Banat to Bailey > Avenue, by Rita Tomkins. > > Rita Tomkins wrote: "This is Resi’s story and then her daughter Anna’s > story, which together tell the history of the Danube Swabians, a community > of German settlers living in Eastern Europe before, during, and after > World War II. As Germans living in Romania, they didn’t really belong to > one country or the other. They had their own culture, rich with customs > and traditions and the occasional paradox. Some were seasoned travelers, > living part time in bustling New York City to make money, but usually > returning home to the rural life they loved. At the end of World War II, > their world was destroyed. Their land was confiscated by the new > communist government, and adults—both male and female—were sent to forced > labor camps hundreds of miles away. This is an interesting corner of history that deserves to be illuminated and preserved. And I have been blessed to receive true stories about it that read like a novel. My mother is a natural oral historian and these are the stories I have been hearing all my life. This is my mother’s story and her mother’s story and, to help modern readers make a connection, part of my American story as well. From Banat to Bailey Avenue vividly presents a time and place that doesn’t exist anymore except in the memories of aging Swabians who have scattered across the west. It strives to preserve their world within an engaging true story." > It will be interesting to read it. > Rosina > www.hrastovac.net

Just noticed that my GG Grandmother was married to a Nikolaus Weinschrott....no specific deates, however I speculate Katherina Hans was born abt 1820. And it had to have been in or near Baowa in the Banat. For information.... chops -----Original Message----- From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JENFREY@aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 8:27 PM To: capehatreal@yahoo.com; danielhilaire@hotmail.com; rosinats@shaw.ca; banat@rootsweb.com Cc: jettygetty@yahoo.com; Bmauro@webtv.net Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Book preview: Rita Tomkins' From Banat to BaileyAvenue Dear Mr. Jacob: I have a family background somewhat similar to yours. I call myself just plain American although my parents called themselves German-American though they were both in the US, raised in The Banat and returned the US. My mother's family (named Hans) originated in the Rhine-Pfalz not far from Saarbrücken. However I have been unable to trace them back beyond 1735. How did you manage to trace your roots back to 1522? I presume must have had access to records in the 16th century. May I ask how you obtained them? Thank you, John Frey San Luis Obispo CA In a message dated 3/7/2010 7:51:06 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, capehatreal@yahoo.com writes: I have a family tree where my ancestors originated in what is now Saarland, Deutschland in 1522. They moved in the early 1700's during the second generation immigration to what is now Temesware, Romania. My mother came from what is now Gertinosch (Carpinis) Romania and my father came from (what is now...or was then in 1912) Sartscha, Yugosolvia. My grandfather on my mother's side came from what is now and was then Bogarosch...(now in Romania)....both my brother and I were born in the USA and we are the last of the true European blood line. I was born during WWII (1944)., my brother not until 1950. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Daniel, Do you have some Barbier names, dates, and towns that you could share with me. We might be able to help each other. You can contact me at my email address. Valerie Barbie vbarbie@nd.gov Message: 1 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 08:53:00 +0000 From: Daniel HILAIRE <danielhilaire@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Hatzfeld Surnames To: List BANAT <banat@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <SNT123-W30B4BC1ACDFF4947C1D9DDB6360@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bonjour Laura, I am very interested in "french familes" such as BARBIER, MARTIN, MICHEL(S) & PAUL. Thanks Daniel Hilaire Bordeaux, France.