The following entry caught my attention: HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela Does anyone have any more information on this Angela KARFISZL, like where she was born and who her parents were. My maternal grandparents were Peter Karfisel and Theresia Haas in Ruskodorf/Kisorosz. I am interested in all information on the name KARFISEL also spelled as KARFISZL, KARVISL, KARVISLI, CARVISL, CORVISL, KARFISZEL, and other variations. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Chris ________________________________ From: Dave Dreyer <ddreyer@pacbell.net> To: Banat List <BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sun, August 8, 2010 12:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs(church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka. He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain. These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf, and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs. In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain. Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing. The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD. The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course. There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz. The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right. There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname. No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs, As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure. Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834. However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz. It was not in Josefsdorf. I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf-Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna HN 308 1 Stefan *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855 +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz HN 238 ex Etschka. Juryman in Elisenhain. To New York 1893 *1836 +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12 +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836 +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais, OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ, wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof, son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents. Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204 +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73 +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283 +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280 +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER(ex Novo Selo) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra, Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH(ex Novo Selo) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj, ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo, oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH. 3 Maria Anna *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg. *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@suddenlink.net> To: <ddreyer@pacbell.net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall > Hey Dave: > Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath > is from Deutsche Etschka. Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the > EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from > Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. > I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka > book and if they could do a lookup for me. I am hoping this record will > clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his > siblings. According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not > have the exact date. > I would appreciate any help. > Dave Weinfurtner > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lorenz and Anna are tough to track.  My instincts tell me that Anna's origins are most likely in Elisenhain or Kriva Bara .  Of course as researchers we want the proof, and to date I have been unable to locate that info.  Since the records for Kriva Bara are in an archive and inaccessible to me it is even more disappointing.  This past year I reviewed the records for Gross Gaj and found there with several additional children for Lorenz and Anna.  There are other Horvaths ( Horwat ) in these records as well.  Because I only extracted those records of interest to me there may be additional information of interest to others.  The DVDs for Gross Gaj were purchased through the Zichydorf Village Association. Eileen Lund-Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dreyer " < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> To: " Banat List" < BANAT -L@ rootsweb .com> Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 12:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [ BANAT -L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period  information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka .  He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain .  These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf , and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs .   In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain . Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing.  The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD.  The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course.  There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz.  The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right.  There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname.  No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs , As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure.  Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834.  However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz .  It was not in Josefsdorf . I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf - Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna                                                   HN 308 1 Stefan                                              *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf         +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann                                            *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan                                              *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton                                             ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria                                           *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz                                                   HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831                                                  +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan                                              *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena                                     *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef                                                     ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna                                          *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855                                                  +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz     HN 238 ex Etschka .  Juryman in Elisenhain .    To New York 1893 *1836                                                  +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna                                               *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina                                        *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna                                               *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia                                      *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva                                                  *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12               +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836                                      +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara                                           *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais , OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ , wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof , son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents.  Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek                                         +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER     HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain                   +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret                                         *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204          +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia                                       *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73            +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena                                     *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth                                         *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283           +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine                                        *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280             +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian                                         *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz                                              *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI                      +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold                                               HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia , dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva                                                  *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef                                                *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara                                           *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER (ex Novo Selo ) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra , Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH (ex Novo Selo ) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj , ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann                                            *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt                                       *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo , oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH . 3 Maria Anna                                    *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof                                             *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine                                        *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg . *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@ suddenlink .net> To: < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall > Hey Dave: > Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath > is from Deutsche Etschka .   Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the > EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from > Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. > I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka > book and if they could do a lookup for me.  I am hoping this record will > clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his > siblings.  According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not > have the exact date. > I would appreciate any help. > Dave Weinfurtner >   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just to add a note on the Horvath's in the Gross Gaj records - I have no information on the origins of the Horvaths, but they must be connected as they all seemed to have multiple sets of twins! Genetics at work, I'm sure! -----Original Message----- From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Amy Nichols Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:47 AM To: 'Banat List' Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave, Thanks for posting that information on the Horvaths...there were a few things in there I was hoping to find! That was great! Thanks! I would like to add a correction to one of the children listed for Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger. There is listed an Apollonia Hovath married to Leopold Monnich. Leopold and Apollonia's marriage is found in the Zichydorf KB. They were married 25 Feb 1884 - Leopold was a resident of Setschanfeld and Apollonia a resident of Georgshausen. Apollonia's parents are listed as Josef Horvath and Katharina Rittinger. Source - Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, Book III, 1852-1895, page 163, record 19. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz) The following information is what I have on Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger: 1. Lorenz Horvath-1. Anna Rollinger. Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger married. They had the following children: i. Josef Horvath was born on 27 Feb 1858 in Ujfalu (#72)[1]. ii. Katharina Horvath was born on 08 Jul 1859 in Ujfalu (#76)[2]. iii. Nikolaus Horvath was born on 17 Oct 1860 in Ujfalu (#75)[3]. iv. Anna Horvath was born on 17 Oct 1860 in Ujfalu (#75)[4]. v. Nikolaus Horvath was born on 07 May 1866 in Ujfalu. vi. Katharina Horvath was born on 07 May 1866 in Ujfalu[5]. Sources 1 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 160, record 31. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 2 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 175, record 75. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 3 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 186, record 91. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 4 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 186, record 91. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 5 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 224, record 43. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). The following information is what I have on Leopold Monnich and Apollonia Horvath: 1. Apollonia Horvath-1 was born between 1866-1867 in Georgshausen. She died on 01 Sep 1927 in Setschanfeld[1]. Leopold Monnich son of Johann Monnich and Magdalena Linabitz was born on 01 Nov 1861 in Setschanfeld[2]. Leopold Monnich and Apollonia Horvath were married on 25 Feb 1884 in Zichydorf, Hungary (Residence: Setschanfeld - Leopold)[3]. They had the following children: i. Anna Monnich was born on 18 Apr 1885 in Setschanfeld[4]. She died on 31 May 1885 in Setschanfeld[5]. ii. Eva Monnich was born on 03 Jan 1887 in Josefdorf. iii. Josef Monnich was born on 12 Aug 1889 in Josefdorf. 3. iv. Barbara Monnich was born on 23 May 1893 in Josefsdorf, Hungary[6]. She married Franz Jerhof on 05 Nov 1911 in Gross Gaj (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[7]. v. Sebastian Monnich was born on 23 Jan 1896 in Setschanfeld[8]. Generation 2 2. Barbara Monnich-2 (Apollonia-1) was born on 23 May 1893 in Josefsdorf, Hungary[6]. Franz Jerhof son of Franz Jerhof and Anna Schwartz was born on 22 Nov 1885 in Ujfalu[9]. He died before 1920 (Died in WWI)[10]. Franz Jerhof and Barbara Monnich were married on 05 Nov 1911 in Gross Gaj (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[7]. They had the following children: 3. i. Anna Jerhof was born on 05 Apr 1913 in Gynlazelop[11]. She married Johann Lambrecht on 30 Jan 1932 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[12]. 4. ii. Josef Jerhof was born on 21 Jul 1914 in Eichenthal, Hungary (Sãlbãgelu Nou / Salbagelu Nou, Romania)[13, 14, 15]. He married Elisabeth Jung on 10 Oct 1937 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[16]. Nikolaus Brucker was born about 1884. He died in 1947 in Rudolfsgnad Internment Camp. Nikolaus Brucker and Barbara Monnich married. They had the following children: i. Peter (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 14 Mar 1925 in Setschanfeld[17]. ii. Johann (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 06 May 1926 in Setschanfeld[18]. He died on 08 Mar 1927 in Setschanfeld. iii. Eva (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 09 Aug 1927 in Setschanfeld[19]. iv. Apollonia Magdalena (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 06 Mar 1933 in Setschanfeld[20]. v. Mathias (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 02 Sep 1935 in Setschanfeld[21]. Page 1 of 3 Monday, August 09, 2010 12:33:26 AM Register Report for Apollonia Horvath Generation 2 (con't) Generation 3 3. Anna Jerhof-3 (Barbara-2, Apollonia-1) was born on 05 Apr 1913 in Gynlazelop[11]. Johann Lambrecht son of Nikolaus Lambrecht and Katharina Andres was born on 13 Jun 1911 in Setschanfeld[22]. He died before 30 May 1933[23]. Johann Lambrecht and Anna Jerhof were married on 30 Jan 1932 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[12]. They had no children. Sebastian Augustin son of Nikolaus Augustin and Magdalena (Anna) Monnich was born on 03 Apr 1910 in Setschanfeld[24]. Sebastian Augustin and Anna Jerhof married. They had the following children: i. Josef (Augustin) Lambrecht was born on 30 May 1933 in Ujfalu. ii. Elisabeth (Augustin) Lambrecht was born on 27 Sep 1935 in Setschanfeld[25]. She died on 04 Jan 1936 in Setschanfeld[26, 27]. 4. Josef Jerhof-3 (Barbara-2, Apollonia-1) was born on 21 Jul 1914 in Eichenthal, Hungary (Sãlbãgelu Nou / Salbagelu Nou, Romania)[13, 14, 15]. Elisabeth Jung daughter of Wendel (Young) Jung and Eva (Niesser) Hoh was born on 18 Sep 1919 in Setschanfeld[28]. She died in 1945 in Russia (Slave Labor Camp). Josef Jerhof and Elisabeth Jung were married on 10 Oct 1937 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[16]. They had the following children: i. Josef Jerhof was born on 10 Feb 1938 in Setschanfeld[29]. ii. Peter Jerhof was born on 25 Jul 1942 in Setschanfeld[30]. He died on 12 Aug 1942 in Setschanfeld. Sources 1 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Burial Records 1901-1932, page 204, record 84. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 2 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 192, record 75. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 3 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, Book III, 1852-1895, page 163, record 19. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 4 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 184, record 32. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 5 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 184, record 32. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 6 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 7 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 8 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 17, record 20. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 9 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 10 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 11 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 12 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 13 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952, Book VII, page 89, record 26. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 14 Donauschwaben Osterreich, Totenbuch der Donauschwaben. Database. http://www.totenbuch-donauschwaben.at/en/search.php. 15 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 36, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 16 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 36, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 17 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 270, record 55. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 18 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 282, record 76. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 19 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 295, record 112. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 20 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 28, record 70. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 21 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 71. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 22 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 227, record 68. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 23 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 24 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 207, record 37. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 25 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 26 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Burial Records 1932-2003, page 32, record 14. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 27 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 28 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 202, record 164. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 29 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952, Book VII, page 89, record 26. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 30 Secenovo/Duzine (Setschanfeld) Roman Catholic Parish Records, Matricula Baptisms 1940-1944, Digital Image. Page 14, Record 53. Zichydorf Village Association; http://www.zichydorfonline.org. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of -----Original Message----- From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of leengeo@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:10 PM To: Banat List Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Lorenz and Anna are tough to track. My instincts tell me that Anna's origins are most likely in Elisenhain or Kriva Bara . Of course as researchers we want the proof, and to date I have been unable to locate that info. Since the records for Kriva Bara are in an archive and inaccessible to me it is even more disappointing. This past year I reviewed the records for Gross Gaj and found there with several additional children for Lorenz and Anna. There are other Horvaths ( Horwat ) in these records as well. Because I only extracted those records of interest to me there may be additional information of interest to others. The DVDs for Gross Gaj were purchased through the Zichydorf Village Association. Eileen Lund-Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dreyer " < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> To: " Banat List" < BANAT -L@ rootsweb .com> Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 12:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [ BANAT -L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka . He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain . These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf , and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs . In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain . Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing. The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD. The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course. There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz. The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right. There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname. No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs , As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure. Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834. However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz . It was not in Josefsdorf . I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf - Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna HN 308 1 Stefan *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855 +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz HN 238 ex Etschka . Juryman in Elisenhain . To New York 1893 *1836 +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12 +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836 +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais , OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ , wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof , son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents. Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204 +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73 +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283 +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280 +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia , dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER (ex Novo Selo ) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra , Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH (ex Novo Selo ) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj , ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo , oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH . 3 Maria Anna *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg . *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@ suddenlink .net> To: < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall > Hey Dave: > Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath > is from Deutsche Etschka . Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the > EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from > Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. > I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka > book and if they could do a lookup for me. I am hoping this record will > clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his > siblings. According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not > have the exact date. > I would appreciate any help. > Dave Weinfurtner > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dave, Thanks for posting that information on the Horvaths...there were a few things in there I was hoping to find! That was great! Thanks! I would like to add a correction to one of the children listed for Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger. There is listed an Apollonia Hovath married to Leopold Monnich. Leopold and Apollonia's marriage is found in the Zichydorf KB. They were married 25 Feb 1884 - Leopold was a resident of Setschanfeld and Apollonia a resident of Georgshausen. Apollonia's parents are listed as Josef Horvath and Katharina Rittinger. Source - Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, Book III, 1852-1895, page 163, record 19. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz) The following information is what I have on Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger: 1. Lorenz Horvath-1. Anna Rollinger. Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger married. They had the following children: i. Josef Horvath was born on 27 Feb 1858 in Ujfalu (#72)[1]. ii. Katharina Horvath was born on 08 Jul 1859 in Ujfalu (#76)[2]. iii. Nikolaus Horvath was born on 17 Oct 1860 in Ujfalu (#75)[3]. iv. Anna Horvath was born on 17 Oct 1860 in Ujfalu (#75)[4]. v. Nikolaus Horvath was born on 07 May 1866 in Ujfalu. vi. Katharina Horvath was born on 07 May 1866 in Ujfalu[5]. Sources 1 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 160, record 31. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 2 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 175, record 75. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 3 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 186, record 91. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 4 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 186, record 91. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 5 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 224, record 43. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). The following information is what I have on Leopold Monnich and Apollonia Horvath: 1. Apollonia Horvath-1 was born between 1866-1867 in Georgshausen. She died on 01 Sep 1927 in Setschanfeld[1]. Leopold Monnich son of Johann Monnich and Magdalena Linabitz was born on 01 Nov 1861 in Setschanfeld[2]. Leopold Monnich and Apollonia Horvath were married on 25 Feb 1884 in Zichydorf, Hungary (Residence: Setschanfeld - Leopold)[3]. They had the following children: i. Anna Monnich was born on 18 Apr 1885 in Setschanfeld[4]. She died on 31 May 1885 in Setschanfeld[5]. ii. Eva Monnich was born on 03 Jan 1887 in Josefdorf. iii. Josef Monnich was born on 12 Aug 1889 in Josefdorf. 3. iv. Barbara Monnich was born on 23 May 1893 in Josefsdorf, Hungary[6]. She married Franz Jerhof on 05 Nov 1911 in Gross Gaj (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[7]. v. Sebastian Monnich was born on 23 Jan 1896 in Setschanfeld[8]. Generation 2 2. Barbara Monnich-2 (Apollonia-1) was born on 23 May 1893 in Josefsdorf, Hungary[6]. Franz Jerhof son of Franz Jerhof and Anna Schwartz was born on 22 Nov 1885 in Ujfalu[9]. He died before 1920 (Died in WWI)[10]. Franz Jerhof and Barbara Monnich were married on 05 Nov 1911 in Gross Gaj (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[7]. They had the following children: 3. i. Anna Jerhof was born on 05 Apr 1913 in Gynlazelop[11]. She married Johann Lambrecht on 30 Jan 1932 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[12]. 4. ii. Josef Jerhof was born on 21 Jul 1914 in Eichenthal, Hungary (Sãlbãgelu Nou / Salbagelu Nou, Romania)[13, 14, 15]. He married Elisabeth Jung on 10 Oct 1937 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[16]. Nikolaus Brucker was born about 1884. He died in 1947 in Rudolfsgnad Internment Camp. Nikolaus Brucker and Barbara Monnich married. They had the following children: i. Peter (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 14 Mar 1925 in Setschanfeld[17]. ii. Johann (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 06 May 1926 in Setschanfeld[18]. He died on 08 Mar 1927 in Setschanfeld. iii. Eva (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 09 Aug 1927 in Setschanfeld[19]. iv. Apollonia Magdalena (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 06 Mar 1933 in Setschanfeld[20]. v. Mathias (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 02 Sep 1935 in Setschanfeld[21]. Page 1 of 3 Monday, August 09, 2010 12:33:26 AM Register Report for Apollonia Horvath Generation 2 (con't) Generation 3 3. Anna Jerhof-3 (Barbara-2, Apollonia-1) was born on 05 Apr 1913 in Gynlazelop[11]. Johann Lambrecht son of Nikolaus Lambrecht and Katharina Andres was born on 13 Jun 1911 in Setschanfeld[22]. He died before 30 May 1933[23]. Johann Lambrecht and Anna Jerhof were married on 30 Jan 1932 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[12]. They had no children. Sebastian Augustin son of Nikolaus Augustin and Magdalena (Anna) Monnich was born on 03 Apr 1910 in Setschanfeld[24]. Sebastian Augustin and Anna Jerhof married. They had the following children: i. Josef (Augustin) Lambrecht was born on 30 May 1933 in Ujfalu. ii. Elisabeth (Augustin) Lambrecht was born on 27 Sep 1935 in Setschanfeld[25]. She died on 04 Jan 1936 in Setschanfeld[26, 27]. 4. Josef Jerhof-3 (Barbara-2, Apollonia-1) was born on 21 Jul 1914 in Eichenthal, Hungary (Sãlbãgelu Nou / Salbagelu Nou, Romania)[13, 14, 15]. Elisabeth Jung daughter of Wendel (Young) Jung and Eva (Niesser) Hoh was born on 18 Sep 1919 in Setschanfeld[28]. She died in 1945 in Russia (Slave Labor Camp). Josef Jerhof and Elisabeth Jung were married on 10 Oct 1937 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[16]. They had the following children: i. Josef Jerhof was born on 10 Feb 1938 in Setschanfeld[29]. ii. Peter Jerhof was born on 25 Jul 1942 in Setschanfeld[30]. He died on 12 Aug 1942 in Setschanfeld. Sources 1 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Burial Records 1901-1932, page 204, record 84. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 2 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 192, record 75. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 3 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, Book III, 1852-1895, page 163, record 19. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 4 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 184, record 32. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 5 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 184, record 32. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 6 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 7 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 8 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 17, record 20. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 9 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 10 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 11 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 12 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 13 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952, Book VII, page 89, record 26. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 14 Donauschwaben Osterreich, Totenbuch der Donauschwaben. Database. http://www.totenbuch-donauschwaben.at/en/search.php. 15 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 36, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 16 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 36, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 17 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 270, record 55. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 18 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 282, record 76. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 19 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 295, record 112. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 20 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 28, record 70. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 21 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 71. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 22 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 227, record 68. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 23 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 24 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 207, record 37. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 25 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 26 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Burial Records 1932-2003, page 32, record 14. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 27 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 28 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 202, record 164. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 29 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952, Book VII, page 89, record 26. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 30 Secenovo/Duzine (Setschanfeld) Roman Catholic Parish Records, Matricula Baptisms 1940-1944, Digital Image. Page 14, Record 53. Zichydorf Village Association; http://www.zichydorfonline.org. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of -----Original Message----- From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of leengeo@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:10 PM To: Banat List Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Lorenz and Anna are tough to track. My instincts tell me that Anna's origins are most likely in Elisenhain or Kriva Bara . Of course as researchers we want the proof, and to date I have been unable to locate that info. Since the records for Kriva Bara are in an archive and inaccessible to me it is even more disappointing. This past year I reviewed the records for Gross Gaj and found there with several additional children for Lorenz and Anna. There are other Horvaths ( Horwat ) in these records as well. Because I only extracted those records of interest to me there may be additional information of interest to others. The DVDs for Gross Gaj were purchased through the Zichydorf Village Association. Eileen Lund-Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dreyer " < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> To: " Banat List" < BANAT -L@ rootsweb .com> Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 12:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [ BANAT -L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka . He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain . These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf , and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs . In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain . Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing. The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD. The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course. There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz. The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right. There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname. No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs , As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure. Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834. However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz . It was not in Josefsdorf . I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf - Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna HN 308 1 Stefan *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855 +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz HN 238 ex Etschka . Juryman in Elisenhain . To New York 1893 *1836 +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12 +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836 +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais , OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ , wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof , son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents. Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204 +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73 +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283 +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280 +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia , dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER (ex Novo Selo ) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra , Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH (ex Novo Selo ) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj , ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo , oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH . 3 Maria Anna *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg . *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@ suddenlink .net> To: < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall > Hey Dave: > Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath > is from Deutsche Etschka . Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the > EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from > Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. > I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka > book and if they could do a lookup for me. I am hoping this record will > clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his > siblings. According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not > have the exact date. > I would appreciate any help. > Dave Weinfurtner > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am not home right now so i cant check, and I don't recall the first names involved, but a while ago photos of a Horvath family that lived in Bethlehem , PA were for sale on eBay. I did not bid on them because I have no Horvath in my line. But since I live very close to Bethlehem, I thought I would save the images on my computer and try to find some of the family. I didn't. But I haven't been able to delete the photos either. Oh well, genealogists are nuts. It's 3:30. AM here at the New Jersey shore where we are for the weekend but I left the B&B ... Went to the car and got my laptop . The names involved on the photos are Joseph and his wife Mary Parr-Horvath. If they are descendants of the Lorenz under discussion, or anyone following this discussion, let me know and I will sent the images to you. They were said to be dated between 1900-1910. I photo shopped them to improve the contrast. The women are dressed in white as if for wedding. The men are in suits and hats, one row sitting, one row standing behind, but the impression is one of connection since they are wearing a bow on chest with long streamers which are then drawn across or draped over the other men. Photagrapher was Frank Biro. Interested, email me. Remember, I don't have the original photos. I have images saved on my laptop. Cathy at Jersey shore for now. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2010, at 12:46 AM, "Amy Nichols" <anichols@att.net> wrote: Dave, Thanks for posting that information on the Horvaths...there were a few things in there I was hoping to find! That was great! Thanks! I would like to add a correction to one of the children listed for Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger. There is listed an Apollonia Hovath married to Leopold Monnich. Leopold and Apollonia's marriage is found in the Zichydorf KB. They were married 25 Feb 1884 - Leopold was a resident of Setschanfeld and Apollonia a resident of Georgshausen. Apollonia's parents are listed as Josef Horvath and Katharina Rittinger. Source - Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, Book III, 1852-1895, page 163, record 19. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz) The following information is what I have on Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger: 1. Lorenz Horvath-1. Anna Rollinger. Lorenz Horvath and Anna Rollinger married. They had the following children: i. Josef Horvath was born on 27 Feb 1858 in Ujfalu (#72)[1]. ii. Katharina Horvath was born on 08 Jul 1859 in Ujfalu (#76)[2]. iii. Nikolaus Horvath was born on 17 Oct 1860 in Ujfalu (#75)[3]. iv. Anna Horvath was born on 17 Oct 1860 in Ujfalu (#75)[4]. v. Nikolaus Horvath was born on 07 May 1866 in Ujfalu. vi. Katharina Horvath was born on 07 May 1866 in Ujfalu[5]. Sources 1 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 160, record 31. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 2 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 175, record 75. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 3 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 186, record 91. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 4 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 186, record 91. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 5 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 224, record 43. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). The following information is what I have on Leopold Monnich and Apollonia Horvath: 1. Apollonia Horvath-1 was born between 1866-1867 in Georgshausen. She died on 01 Sep 1927 in Setschanfeld[1]. Leopold Monnich son of Johann Monnich and Magdalena Linabitz was born on 01 Nov 1861 in Setschanfeld[2]. Leopold Monnich and Apollonia Horvath were married on 25 Feb 1884 in Zichydorf, Hungary (Residence: Setschanfeld - Leopold)[3]. They had the following children: i. Anna Monnich was born on 18 Apr 1885 in Setschanfeld[4]. She died on 31 May 1885 in Setschanfeld[5]. ii. Eva Monnich was born on 03 Jan 1887 in Josefdorf. iii. Josef Monnich was born on 12 Aug 1889 in Josefdorf. 3. iv. Barbara Monnich was born on 23 May 1893 in Josefsdorf, Hungary[6]. She married Franz Jerhof on 05 Nov 1911 in Gross Gaj (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[7]. v. Sebastian Monnich was born on 23 Jan 1896 in Setschanfeld[8]. Generation 2 2. Barbara Monnich-2 (Apollonia-1) was born on 23 May 1893 in Josefsdorf, Hungary[6]. Franz Jerhof son of Franz Jerhof and Anna Schwartz was born on 22 Nov 1885 in Ujfalu[9]. He died before 1920 (Died in WWI)[10]. Franz Jerhof and Barbara Monnich were married on 05 Nov 1911 in Gross Gaj (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[7]. They had the following children: 3. i. Anna Jerhof was born on 05 Apr 1913 in Gynlazelop[11]. She married Johann Lambrecht on 30 Jan 1932 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[12]. 4. ii. Josef Jerhof was born on 21 Jul 1914 in Eichenthal, Hungary (Sãlbãgelu Nou / Salbagelu Nou, Romania)[13, 14, 15]. He married Elisabeth Jung on 10 Oct 1937 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[16]. Nikolaus Brucker was born about 1884. He died in 1947 in Rudolfsgnad Internment Camp. Nikolaus Brucker and Barbara Monnich married. They had the following children: i. Peter (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 14 Mar 1925 in Setschanfeld[17]. ii. Johann (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 06 May 1926 in Setschanfeld[18]. He died on 08 Mar 1927 in Setschanfeld. iii. Eva (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 09 Aug 1927 in Setschanfeld[19]. iv. Apollonia Magdalena (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 06 Mar 1933 in Setschanfeld[20]. v. Mathias (Brucker) Jerhof was born on 02 Sep 1935 in Setschanfeld[21]. Page 1 of 3 Monday, August 09, 2010 12:33:26 AM Register Report for Apollonia Horvath Generation 2 (con't) Generation 3 3. Anna Jerhof-3 (Barbara-2, Apollonia-1) was born on 05 Apr 1913 in Gynlazelop[11]. Johann Lambrecht son of Nikolaus Lambrecht and Katharina Andres was born on 13 Jun 1911 in Setschanfeld[22]. He died before 30 May 1933[23]. Johann Lambrecht and Anna Jerhof were married on 30 Jan 1932 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[12]. They had no children. Sebastian Augustin son of Nikolaus Augustin and Magdalena (Anna) Monnich was born on 03 Apr 1910 in Setschanfeld[24]. Sebastian Augustin and Anna Jerhof married. They had the following children: i. Josef (Augustin) Lambrecht was born on 30 May 1933 in Ujfalu. ii. Elisabeth (Augustin) Lambrecht was born on 27 Sep 1935 in Setschanfeld[25]. She died on 04 Jan 1936 in Setschanfeld[26, 27]. 4. Josef Jerhof-3 (Barbara-2, Apollonia-1) was born on 21 Jul 1914 in Eichenthal, Hungary (Sãlbãgelu Nou / Salbagelu Nou, Romania)[13, 14, 15]. Elisabeth Jung daughter of Wendel (Young) Jung and Eva (Niesser) Hoh was born on 18 Sep 1919 in Setschanfeld[28]. She died in 1945 in Russia (Slave Labor Camp). Josef Jerhof and Elisabeth Jung were married on 10 Oct 1937 in Setschanfeld (Residence: Setschanfeld - both)[16]. They had the following children: i. Josef Jerhof was born on 10 Feb 1938 in Setschanfeld[29]. ii. Peter Jerhof was born on 25 Jul 1942 in Setschanfeld[30]. He died on 12 Aug 1942 in Setschanfeld. Sources 1 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Burial Records 1901-1932, page 204, record 84. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 2 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1832-1866, page 192, record 75. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 3 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, Book III, 1852-1895, page 163, record 19. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 4 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 184, record 32. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 5 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 184, record 32. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 6 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 7 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 8 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 17, record 20. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 9 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records 1879-1944, page 178, record 29. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Swartz). 10 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 11 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 12 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 2, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 13 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952, Book VII, page 89, record 26. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 14 Donauschwaben Osterreich, Totenbuch der Donauschwaben. Database. http://www.totenbuch-donauschwaben.at/en/search.php. 15 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 36, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 16 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Marriage Records, book VI, 1932-1990, page 36, record 28. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 17 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 270, record 55. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 18 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 282, record 76. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 19 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 295, record 112. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 20 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 28, record 70. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 21 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 71. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 22 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 227, record 68. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 23 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 24 Gross Gaj/Malenitzfalva Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1895-1917, page 207, record 37. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 25 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 26 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Burial Records 1932-2003, page 32, record 14. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 27 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952a, Book VII, page 63, record 74. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 28 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1904-1932, Book VI, page 202, record 164. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 29 Zichydorf Roman Catholic Parish Records, CD publication, Baptism Records 1932-1952, Book VII, page 89, record 26. Obtained through Zichydorf Village Association (Glenn Schwartz). 30 Secenovo/Duzine (Setschanfeld) Roman Catholic Parish Records, Matricula Baptisms 1940-1944, Digital Image. Page 14, Record 53. Zichydorf Village Association; http://www.zichydorfonline.org. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of -----Original Message----- From: banat-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:banat-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of leengeo@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:10 PM To: Banat List Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Lorenz and Anna are tough to track. My instincts tell me that Anna's origins are most likely in Elisenhain or Kriva Bara . Of course as researchers we want the proof, and to date I have been unable to locate that info. Since the records for Kriva Bara are in an archive and inaccessible to me it is even more disappointing. This past year I reviewed the records for Gross Gaj and found there with several additional children for Lorenz and Anna. There are other Horvaths ( Horwat ) in these records as well. Because I only extracted those records of interest to me there may be additional information of interest to others. The DVDs for Gross Gaj were purchased through the Zichydorf Village Association. Eileen Lund-Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dreyer " < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> To: " Banat List" < BANAT -L@ rootsweb .com> Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 12:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [ BANAT -L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka . He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain . These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf , and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs . In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain . Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing. The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD. The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course. There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz. The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right. There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname. No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs , As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure. Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834. However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz . It was not in Josefsdorf . I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf - Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna HN 308 1 Stefan *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855 +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz HN 238 ex Etschka . Juryman in Elisenhain . To New York 1893 *1836 +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12 +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836 +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais , OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ , wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof , son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents. Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204 +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73 +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283 +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280 +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia , dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER (ex Novo Selo ) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra , Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH (ex Novo Selo ) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj , ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo , oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH . 3 Maria Anna *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg . *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@ suddenlink .net> To: < ddreyer @ pacbell .net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall Hey Dave: Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath is from Deutsche Etschka . Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka book and if they could do a lookup for me. I am hoping this record will clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his siblings. According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not have the exact date. I would appreciate any help. Dave Weinfurtner ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT -request@ rootsweb .com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dreyer" To: "Banat List" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl > This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem ... > The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from > Etschka. ... > Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since > the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to > work > from and there are many records missing. ... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OR the explanation is that he, Lorenz Horvath, was not a German, and the FB author(s) were not quite interested in his entrances from the original KBs ... In to many cases the title "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde X" do not cover the reality and inhabitants of that village, who do not have a German name, are ignored deliberately ... S o r i n http://www.genealogy.ro/contributions.htm

Sorin; When I first started Banat research I was bothered by the Hungarian surnames which popped up in the German community from time to time. But now I have grown to accept that some individuals were integrated and some of these people grew to be an accepted part of that German society. I assume that intermarriage although probably infrequent increased in later years and that the German community was not as introverted as I had been lead to believe . I have difficulty in identifying Romanian surnames but I assume mixing occurred to a similar degree with the German community and Craig's example is a case in point. Such a integration appears also to have happened along the German Polish boarder over a longer period to account for the frequent occurrence of Polish surnames in Germany. Clearly, Lorenz Horvath, was one of these Hungarians who was a solid member of the German community. Perhaps he was born into it. Trickier for an outsider like myself it is hard to pick up and identify Germans who became Magyarized and adopted a Hungarian surname. This appears mostly to have occurred among professionals who wanted to be accepted by the Hungarian authorities. I would argue that Philipp Lung did not consciously omit Lorenz Horvath from the D Etschka family book since there are a bunch of other Horvath families listed. This is not to say Romanians, Hungarian or Serbs didn't get omitted from other family books from time to time. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "GenealogyRO Group" <genealogy@banat.ro> To: "Banat List" <BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:28 PM Subject: [BANAT-L] [GenRoG] --RE:Re: Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Dreyer" > To: "Banat List" > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Lorenz Horvath in Josefsdorfl >> This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem ... >> The Josefsdorf KBs (church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from >> Etschka. ... >> Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising >> since >> the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to >> work >> from and there are many records missing. ... > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OR the explanation is that he, Lorenz Horvath, was not a German, and the > FB > author(s) were not quite interested in his entrances from the original KBs > ... > > In to many cases the title "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde X" > do not cover the reality and inhabitants of that village, who do not have > a > German name, are ignored deliberately ... > > S o r i n > http://www.genealogy.ro/contributions.htm > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Sorin brings up an excellent point.  In the town of Rekasch, I am unable to trace my direct paternal line further back than 1859 with any precision because that's when my Romanian Orthodox ggg-grandfather, Nicolaus Flueras married my Catholic ggg-grandmother, Magdalena Wichtmann.  Even though according to the marriage record, Nicolaus was born in Rekasch in 1832 and his parents who are named in the marriage record lived in Rekasch as well, there is no other record of any of those family members in the Rekasch family book, since it focuses on the Catholic records.  It's frustrating to hit such a road block, but I've learned to accept it and just work on the other branches of the family.  Craig A. Windt cawindt@yahoo.com ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OR the explanation is that he, Lorenz Horvath, was not a German, and the FB author(s) were not quite interested in his entrances from the original KBs ... In to many cases the title "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde X" do not cover the reality and inhabitants of that village, who do not have a German name, are ignored deliberately ... S o r i n http://www.genealogy.ro/contributions.htm

Dave; This Lorenz Horvath is a long standing problem which comes up on the list from time to time over the years and there seems to be a lot of list subscribers who are decended from him. Over this period information from this family gets passed around among these interested and researchers forget who supplied it and when it comes around again it get accepted as established fact. As you are aware the passenger ship records in this case are too early to give us any information on his place of birth. The Josefsdorf KBs(church books) indicate that Lorenz Horvath is from Etschka. He was also a Juryman in Elisenhain. These two villages are close neighbors. Lorenz Horvath and his first wife, Anna Rollinger had four kids who were married in Josefsdorf, and these are recorded in the Josefsdorf KBs. In addiion I have been able to get the abstracts of the Elisenhain birth KBs and their oldest kid, Eva was born in Elisenhain. Lorenz is not in the D Etschka family book but this is not suprising since the author Philipp Lung did not have copies of all the D Etschka KBs to work from and there are many records missing. The D Etscka family book is out of print but is now available from the AVBF on a CD. The D Etschka family book was published some years ago and perhaps Philipp Lung will have acquired additional D Etschka records which will lead to a new extended edition in due course. There are several Horvath families in the D Etschka family book but they are too late to be the parents of Lorenz. The birth date of 1836 is probably calculted from his age at the time of death and is probably about right. There were a bunch of Horvaths in Elisenhain likely related, however Horvath is a very common Hungarian surname. If Lorenz wasn't born in D Etschka he was likely from nearby Ernsthausen where Horvath is also a known surname. No one that I know of has copies of the Ernsthausen KBs, As important as the origin of Lorenz is, the details on his first wife, Anna Rollinger are equally obscure. Again she might have come from Ernsthausen but someone recently posted the information that she was born in Kriva Bara 15 Jan 1834. However, this is an IGI entry and as such a secondary source has to be taken with some reservation. The matter does not stop here since we do not know the details of the marriage to his second wife, Eva Lutz. It was not in Josefsdorf. I will past below the data I have on Horvaths in the Josefsdorf-Elisenhain records and you will have to judge for yourself how best to proceed. You will see that there are a whole series of different places given for the birth of the Horvath kids in the various KB entries. Dave Dreyer HORVATH Anna HN 308 1 Stefan *27 Mar 1882 Josefsdorf +14 Oct 1882 Josefsdorf 2 Johann *29 Jul 1883 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1885 Josefsdorf 3 Stefan *19 Oct 1885 Josefsdorf HN 236 HORVATH Anton ex Etschka oo POPOVICS Veronica 1 Victoria *31 Aug 1873 Elisenhain +6 Sep 1873 Elisenhain HORVATH Franz HN 244 ex Ernsthausen *1831 +10 Feb 1895 Josefsdorf oo KARFISZL Angela HORVATH Franz oo HEIN Maria 1 Stefan *3 Jun 1870 Elisenhain 2 Magdalena *19 Apr 1872 Elisenhain HN 21 HORVATH Josef ex St Georgen oo PAUL Katharina 1 Susanna *27 Sep 1878 Elisenhain HORVATH Rosina, widow *1855 +17 Mar 1929 Belint HORVATH Lorenz HN 238 ex Etschka. Juryman in Elisenhain. To New York 1893 *1836 +6 Apr 1915, Mt Angel OR 1oo ROLLINGER Anna 1 Anna *1859 oo Johann WEBER 2 Katharina *1866 oo Benedict RIESINGER 3 Anna *1867 oo Johann EHRENWERTH 4 Appolonia *1870 oo Leopold MOENNICH 5 Eva *23 Jul 1872 Elisenhain HN 12 +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI oo Kristof EHRENREICH 2oo LUTZ Eva *21 Jan 1836 +Mt Angel OR 6 Barbara *27 Apr 1880 Elisenhain +20 Aug 1884 Josefsdorf 3oo 14 Jun 1910 Gervais, OR MITTELBRUNN Maria, dau of Josef IVANCSICS and Eva LUTZ, wid of Nikolaus MITTELBRUN *2 Jul 1866 Georgshausen EHRENREICH Kristof, son of Mathias EHRENREICH and Anna RIEMSCHNEIDER Giseladorf HN46, To Lincoln Ill 1897 with parents. Later moved to Rib Lake Wisconsin and then to Marschfield Wisconsin. *1868 Klek +1918 oo 5 Jul 1891 Josefsdorf HORVATH Eva, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER HN 204 *23 Jul 1873 Elisenhain +30 Jun 1951 Marschfield WI 1 Margaret *22 Aug 1892 Josefsdorf HN 204 +23 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf 2 Apollonia *12 Nov 1893 Josefsdorf HN 73 +28 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI 3 Magdalena *11 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf +30 Jan 1895 Josefsdorf 4 Elisabeth *30 Dec 1895 Josefsdorf HN 283 +26 Mar 1989 Marschfield WI 5 Katharine *17 Jul 1897 Josefsdorf HN 280 +10 Sep 1897 Josefsdorf 6 Christian *20 Nov 1897 +20 Nov 1962 Sheboygen WI 7 Ignatz *20 Jun 1900 Rib Lake WI +12 Mar 1968 Marschfield WI MOENNICH Leopold HN 59 ex Setschandorf oo HORVATH Apollonia, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER ex Georgshausen *1870 1 Eva *3 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Josef *12 Aug 1889 Josefsdorf HN 197 3 Barbara *23 May 1893 Josefsdorf HN 199 oo 5 Nov 1911, Gr Gaj Franz TERHOT RIESINGER Benedict, son of Johann RIESINGER(ex Novo Selo) and Magdalena HARTMANN HN 33 1/2 ex Beodra, Novo Selo *1860 oo 5 Jul 1885 Josefsdorf HORVATH Katharine, dau of Lorenz HORVATH(ex Novo Selo) and Anna ROLLINGER HN 238 ex Gr Gaj, ex Kriva Bara *1866 1 Johann *28 Jan 1887 Josefsdorf 2 Bernhardt *28 Nov 1889 Josefsdorf HN 239 ex Novo Selo, oo 1913 to Maria NEMETH. 3 Maria Anna *11 Sep 1892 Josefsdorf HN 237 ex Novo Selo 4 Kristof *16 Mar 1895 Josefsdorf HN 62 5 Katharine *20 Aug 1898 Josefsdorf HN 204 WEBER Johann, son of Michael WEBER and Anna KRAEMER living in Elisenhain ex Setschan *1861 oo 11 Aug 1888 Josefsdorf HORVATH Anna, dau of Lorenz HORVATH and Anna ROLLINGER living in Josefsdorf ex Neuburg. *1859 ----- Original Message ----- From: <davey1947@suddenlink.net> To: <ddreyer@pacbell.net> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: Lorenz Horvath Brickwall > Hey Dave: > Someone from the list sent me information in a forum that Lorencz Horvath > is from Deutsche Etschka. Lorencz shows up in your extractions for the > EMIGRATION FROM BANAT records aboard the ship Dresden going from > Josefsdorf to New York arriving in New York 21 Nov. 1893. > I was wondering if you know the person who may have the Deutsche Etschka > book and if they could do a lookup for me. I am hoping this record will > clarify once and for all who his parents were and also who were his > siblings. According to my records, Lorencz was born in 1836, but I do not > have the exact date. > I would appreciate any help. > Dave Weinfurtner >

Hello Mt. Angel travelers, Only 40 days (!!!) to the Treffen! Time for sure flies. Regarding Saturday dinner (http://www.dsheritage.com/mtangel/dinners.aspx) kindly send your cheque to Ray Borschowa now, as the dinner has to be prepaid. Looking forwards to see you all in Mt. Angel, Rosina www.hrastovac.net

Tom; There are no Kapolnek families in the Lazarfeld family book by Leitl and Mueller. Three families of Kaplanek but earlier than your time frame, moreover no Georg. There are a bunch of Kapolnek families listed in the D Etschka-Sigmundfeld-Rudolfsgnad family book by Lung. The book is out of print but now available on CD from the AVBF. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Kapolnek" <tom.kapolnek@live.com> To: <Banat-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 2:43 PM Subject: [BANAT-L] Researching Kapolnek - Lazarfeld and Sigmundfeld > Hello - > > I'm researching the surnames Kapolnek as part of my research on my family > tree. Here's the information that I currently have: > > * My great grandfather Georg Kapolnek age 43 arrived at Ellis Island in > 1911 > on the Amerika, with his wife Suzanna (Schaaf) age 40 and their children > George (my grandfather) age 3, Ferencz age 8, Dominick age 15, and Anna > age > 10. > * The place of residence for all was listed as Lazarfeld, Hungary > * The place of birth for my great-grandfather Georg was listed as > Sigmundfeld, Hungary. > > Any information, or direction towards sources of information regarding the > Kapolnek name in Lazerfeld and Sigmundfeld would be greatly appreciated. > > Thank you, > Tom Kapolnek > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello - I'm researching the surnames Kapolnek as part of my research on my family tree. Here's the information that I currently have: * My great grandfather Georg Kapolnek age 43 arrived at Ellis Island in 1911 on the Amerika, with his wife Suzanna (Schaaf) age 40 and their children George (my grandfather) age 3, Ferencz age 8, Dominick age 15, and Anna age 10. * The place of residence for all was listed as Lazarfeld, Hungary * The place of birth for my great-grandfather Georg was listed as Sigmundfeld, Hungary. Any information, or direction towards sources of information regarding the Kapolnek name in Lazerfeld and Sigmundfeld would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Tom Kapolnek

Hello, On these four pages http://www.hrastovac.net/photos/homes-1/index-I.htm you will be able to see typical Danube Swabian homes. Those ones which are falling apart, one can observe what kind of building materials were used. There is also a photo of 'stairs to the attic' and 'stairs to the cellar etc. I hope it helps. See you all in Mt. Angel, Rosina Vancouver Island

Hello Mt. Angel travelers, Good news just arrived: Ann Morrison will be able to join us in Mt. Angel and will give us a short presentation on Friday morning of why and how THE FORGOTTEN GENOCIDE documentary came to be. HURRAH! See you all there, Rosina www.hrastovac.net

Knew I'd find more in my files if I looked ..... "A Grundloch is what the word says-  it is a hole in the ground. Inthis case, however, it is a hole where the village residents could goto get some soil for their garden or for mud for the adobe/stuccoused for the houses. After it filled with water, it served as a localswimming hole. Frozen over in winter time."  From   Michael Stamm "The 'oven' was built on the outside wall.  The ovens were used toheat the houses. During the winter, every evening the ovens wereheated mostly with straw or other burning material. Sometimes thefire was taken advantage to prepare supper.  Since the houses wereheated only once a day, (only on  a cold day would a house be heatedin the evening and again in the morning.)" From   Alex Leeb <aleeb@calcna.ab.ca> They would whitewash the inside (sometimes with colored lime) anddecorate it with stencils.  The stencil's design was in later timesengraved on a rubber roller.  The roller was then rolled it into somedarker lime paint and rolled on the wall leaving the design.  Thismethod was quite common all throughout eastern Europe. The ceiling ina house was also built from sod (grass & mud). Once a year, mostly inthe autumn when the Kirchweihfest (Church Festivals) were held, thewalls were geweisselt (g'weisseldt = geweisselt, means -"made white."The wallswerre washed down with white powder paint made of lime mixedwith water. This is referred to as whitewashed.  The "house had earthfloors and they were "cured" by soaking cow manure in a bucket ofwater and then dipping a rag into this mix and wiping down the floors.This caused the earth to "glaze" over and there was no dust or loosedirt" (so says Fred Sprager's mother Eva Prunkl from Zichydorf).       fred_sprager@accel.net (Ferdinand J. Sprager, Kirkfield, Ontario  Each village had a distinct wooden trim on the houses  ....differenciating one village from another. The attic was used to store food in it. With a strong ceiling, wheat,corn, barley were stored in the attic. Sticks or poles were put intothe chimney and strung horizontally by way of iron hooks secured tothe rafters.  These were used to hang sausages to be smoked from 4-6weeks. Then the smoked meat goods such as hams, bacon slabs andsausages. were hung and stored in the attic.  These were wrapped ingauze against flies  From  " Alex Leeb   <aleeb@calcna.ab.ca> --- On Thu, 8/5/10, gbrettrager@aol.com <gbrettrager@aol.com> wrote: From: gbrettrager@aol.com <gbrettrager@aol.com> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] House construction To: eantis@verizon.net, BANAT@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:39 AM Probably depends on when.  In Glogowatz they were originally stamped brick, which don't stand up well to floods.  After a couple floods, the houses were made of fired brick. George -----Original Message----- From: Elinor <eantis@verizon.net> To: BANAT@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, Aug 5, 2010 7:43 am Subject: [BANAT-L] House construction   I am writing a book/booklet for my husbands family on their family history.   I am also trying to include whatever I can about life in the Banat in the   early years.  My  question  for  now  is: How were the houses actually   constructed? Their house in Ernsthausen was apparently one big room with two   windows on the front. I've seen pictures and there appear to be houses with   either one or two windows across the front. Were they built of some kind of   concrete blocks, or some kind of adobe type material? What were and how were   the roofs constructed? Thank you for any kind of information. Elinor Antis ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

some were built of air dried bricks made from local clay --- On Thu, 8/5/10, gbrettrager@aol.com <gbrettrager@aol.com> wrote: From: gbrettrager@aol.com <gbrettrager@aol.com> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] House construction To: eantis@verizon.net, BANAT@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:39 AM Probably depends on when.  In Glogowatz they were originally stamped brick, which don't stand up well to floods.  After a couple floods, the houses were made of fired brick. George -----Original Message----- From: Elinor <eantis@verizon.net> To: BANAT@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, Aug 5, 2010 7:43 am Subject: [BANAT-L] House construction   I am writing a book/booklet for my husbands family on their family history.   I am also trying to include whatever I can about life in the Banat in the   early years.  My  question  for  now  is: How were the houses actually   constructed? Their house in Ernsthausen was apparently one big room with two   windows on the front. I've seen pictures and there appear to be houses with   either one or two windows across the front. Were they built of some kind of   concrete blocks, or some kind of adobe type material? What were and how were   the roofs constructed? Thank you for any kind of information. Elinor Antis ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Probably depends on when. In Glogowatz they were originally stamped brick, which don't stand up well to floods. After a couple floods, the houses were made of fired brick. George -----Original Message----- From: Elinor <eantis@verizon.net> To: BANAT@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, Aug 5, 2010 7:43 am Subject: [BANAT-L] House construction I am writing a book/booklet for my husbands family on their family history. I am also trying to include whatever I can about life in the Banat in the early years. My question for now is: How were the houses actually constructed? Their house in Ernsthausen was apparently one big room with two windows on the front. I've seen pictures and there appear to be houses with either one or two windows across the front. Were they built of some kind of concrete blocks, or some kind of adobe type material? What were and how were the roofs constructed? Thank you for any kind of information. Elinor Antis ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

I am writing a book/booklet for my husbands family on their family history. I am also trying to include whatever I can about life in the Banat in the early years. My question for now is: How were the houses actually constructed? Their house in Ernsthausen was apparently one big room with two windows on the front. I've seen pictures and there appear to be houses with either one or two windows across the front. Were they built of some kind of concrete blocks, or some kind of adobe type material? What were and how were the roofs constructed? Thank you for any kind of information. Elinor Antis

I like to know if anybody knows anything about my fatherJohann sellinger born 1910 in etschka banat he was Wachtmeister in einem Gebirgsrjeager .Rgt. and died15 sept 1944 in Sackelhausen age 34 if anybody knows if any Heldendenkmal ever was establischt or anybody knows about him please contact me Hermann Sellinger st.leger1@bigpond .com On 04/08/2010, at 5:01 PM, banat-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: SPRINGART (Diana Lambing) > 2. K u K 61st IR reinactment (Dave Dreyer) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 08:26:23 +0100 > From: "Diana Lambing" <diana@villaflorida.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] SPRINGART > To: "kira springart" <mkiras@yahoo.com>, <banat@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <0330012AD386485BBB170164EA40E033@home684c41d2bf> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Kira, > > I've just looked up the SPRINGARDT name (and variations) in the Lenauheim > book - I am sending you scans of the relevant pages. > > Diana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kira springart" <mkiras@yahoo.com> > To: <banat@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:00 AM > Subject: [BANAT-L] SPRINGART > > > Hello, > > I have been researching my family and have recently been unable to continue > without a little additional help. I am researching the name SPRINGART. I > have > traced my direct family back to Neusidel and have information on SPRINGARTs > in > Bogarosch from the late 1700's to the early 1800's . However, I am missing > the > link in between. The last person I have in my tree is PETER SPRINGART in > Neusidel (1810-1952). I have done some research online and have found > references to SPRINGARTs in Treibswetter, Hatzfeld, Lenauheim, and Horbach. > Does anyone have the family books for these villages that might be able to > help > me out? Of course, any additional information would be helpful too! > The variations I have found include SPRINGARDT, SPRENGART, SPRENCKART, and > SPRENGARD. > I am also looking into the possiblity that the name SPEICHERT is a variation > of > SPRINGART. > > Thanks, > > Kira Springart > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BANAT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:20:19 -0700 > From: "Dave Dreyer" <ddreyer@pacbell.net> > Subject: [BANAT-L] K u K 61st IR reinactment > To: "Banat List" <BANAT-L@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <CCE82E2077E34C86AAD6395360350D6E@D99J3Q21> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Military re-enactments have become increasingly popular in the last 20-25 years. I was suprised to find that there is a re-enactment group for the 61st Infantry regiment, which recruited in Torontal County of the Banat, based in Southern Calif. Most Banaters will have a ancestor somewhere who served in this regiment. This group has a web site with a home page at; > http://kuk-ir61.net/index.html > These may be the people one can direct with questions about K u K military uniforms. One can monitor their program via their web site. > Dave Dreyer > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the BANAT list administrator, send an email to > BANAT-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the BANAT mailing list, send an email to BANAT@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BANAT-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of BANAT Digest, Vol 5, Issue 205 > *************************************

Military re-enactments have become increasingly popular in the last 20-25 years. I was suprised to find that there is a re-enactment group for the 61st Infantry regiment, which recruited in Torontal County of the Banat, based in Southern Calif. Most Banaters will have a ancestor somewhere who served in this regiment. This group has a web site with a home page at; http://kuk-ir61.net/index.html These may be the people one can direct with questions about K u K military uniforms. One can monitor their program via their web site. Dave Dreyer