Hello Rosina, just one little correction, Ivan Rukavina, not Rukovina. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Rukavina Staša On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Rosina <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hello Danube Swabian Researchers, > > Just recently a 1945 document has been discovered that was issued by > Tito's Brigadier General Ivan Rukovina on 10th of January 1945, "buried" > in a pile of other documents in the basement of the Museum of Vojvodina. It > is an authorization to all the military officers to deal with the ethnic > German population in any way they please. An official Carta Blanca for the > persecution of Danube Swabians that followed. > > Please see www.hrastovac.net via the Bulletin Board. > > Greetings from Vancouver Island, > > Rosina T. Schmidt > www.hrastovac.net > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- *Stasa Cvetkovic* *http://www.synergia.rs/ <http://www.synergia.rs/>* *Tel/fax: +381 21 553 265* *Mobile: +381 62 598 517* *Novi Sad, Serbia* *Visit our webpage <http://www.synergia.rs/>*

Andrew, Many thanks for the additional Lenhardt data. After looking through all the data on this family I suspect that kid #3 Peter never came to the U. S. A small point but I cannot find him in the passenger ship records and he is not living with his parents in the North Dakota census. Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Ricks To: Dave Dreyer ; [email protected] Cc: Banat List Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: RE: [BANAT-L] Letter from Setschan dated 24 Jan 1938 Hi David! Thanks for the quick response and the stories about Peter SCHULZ' descendant. Very interesting and thorough letter, too! I believe Peter may be a first cousin to Thomas' wife, Anna SCHULZ, but am still investigating that. Thomas LENHARDT (also spelled LENHART and LENNERT) died here in Mansfield, Ohio, USA on 14 Mar 1939 at the home of his daughter Laura (per his Ohio death certificate, and local cemetery, funeral home and newspaper records), having been here at that time about three years. His wife Anna appears to have passed 15 Jul 1931 in Dickinson, ND, USA (have yet to corroborate). He originally came from Josefsdorf 9 May 1905 with wife Anna and two kids, Laura and Thomas (per viewing your extraction of ship records): http://freepages.genealogy.rootsw eb.ancestry.com/~banatdata/ND/NDakota.htm I am creating most of Thomas' family record looking at p. 205 of your Josefsdorf draft but I believe there is high probability on this family being correct per matches on the DOB matching his Ohio death cert, and DOB/POB matches on daughter Elenoria (my great-grandmother) to her death certificate (Eleanora Laura SCHACHERER), and per mention of a son named Peter from oral family sources: 1 Barbara LENHART / 12 Apr 1880 (Setschan) - 9 Sep 1884; 2 Anna LENHART / 7 Aug 1881 (Setschan) - ? / oo Josef DONIS 12 Feb 1899 at Josefsdorf / last know residence in Dunn, ND, USA per 1930 US census; 3 Peter LENHART / 17 Aug 1883 (Josefsdorf) - 1909 (?) (Montana, USA); 4 Elenoria / 3 Jul 1887 (Josefsdorf) - 11 Oct 1969 (Mansfield, OH, USA) / oo Anton SCHACHERER abt. 1910 (per Dickinson, ND, USA US census); 5 Johann (Thomas) LENHART / 27 Jun 1892 (Josefsdorf) - Aug 1976 (Guadalajara, Mexico) / no known spouse; 6 Magdalena / 24 Aug 1894 - 22 Jan 1897 Some of the above chart has been added to based on further Ancestry.com research. Any other information or reference material you can point to would be fantastic! Best Regards, Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] CC: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Letter from Setschan dated 24 Jan 1938 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 20:49:02 -0800 Andrew, I have been a long term volunteer at the local Mormon FHC. About 10 years ago a fellow came into the center while I was there who was a descendent of ND Banaters. Since Banaters are thin on the ground here we spent the rest of the day shooting the bull on Banaters. I have forgotten his name, but he had made many trips to the Banat back in the bad old communist days and had many wild stories to tell. As I recall he was descended from Peter Schulz and Marg Wilhelm who lived in Glendive(see the Josefsdorf draft at Banatbooks). I only saw him one additional time when he came in and had several documents with him, among them the letter we eventually published. I made a copy for my use at that time. He was not in very good health and was talking about making still another trip to the Banat. I wondered if he ever was able to make the last trip. In any event, the letter was obviously an effort on the part of the author to leave a bit of family history for his descendents. I agree with your conclusion that the author appears to be Heinrich Schulz. Although I cannot directly document birthplace of Heinirch Schulz but in the Josefsdorf church books his birthplace is given as Tschawosch. There is no family book for Tschawosch at this time nor are copies of the Tschawosch church books generally available(except in the Temeswar archives). Could you give me the death date and place of Thomas Lenhardt. Do you have details on the death dates, places and marriages of his kids? Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Ricks To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:07 AM Subject: [BANAT-L] Letter from Setschan dated 24 Jan 1938 12 Jan 2014 Greetings Gentlemen! I am writing in the interest of the above-described letter and communication between you in 2008 (found in the Banat archives - see link below). It specifically names a direct descendant of mine, i.e. a Thomas LENHART, my second great grandfather. He is buried here in Mansfield, Ohio, USA and I am currently in the process of purchasing a headstone for his grave site - it would be nice to include a place of birth for the engraver. Since I am having trouble navigating the many Banat resources that are so graciously provided, would you kindly point me in the right direction on some questions I have: a.. What is the originating source of this letter? b.. Who authored the letter? It appears to be a Heinrich SCHULZ, pursuant to comparing the stated marriage date in the letter to the Elisenhain-Josefsdorf Family Register 1872-1990 (page 317). Any help you may offer would be deeply appreciated. Sincerely, Andrew Andrew J. Ricks 459 Beethoven St. Mansfield, OH 44902-7012 (419) 612-9008 [email protected] http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BANAT/2008-12/1229585579 http://www.banatbooks.com/ELISENHAIN-JOSEFSDORF-FAMILY-REGISTER-Watermarked.pdf

Hi David! Thanks for the quick response and the stories about Peter SCHULZ' descendant. Very interesting and thorough letter, too! I believe Peter may be a first cousin to Thomas' wife, Anna SCHULZ, but am still investigating that. Thomas LENHARDT (also spelled LENHART and LENNERT) died here in Mansfield, Ohio, USA on 14 Mar 1939 at the home of his daughter Laura (per his Ohio death certificate, and local cemetery, funeral home and newspaper records), having been here at that time about three years. His wife Anna appears to have passed 15 Jul 1931 in Dickinson, ND, USA (have yet to corroborate). He originally came from Josefsdorf 9 May 1905 with wife Anna and two kids, Laura and Thomas (per viewing your extraction of ship records): http://freepages.genealogy.rootsw eb.ancestry.com/~banatdata/ND/NDakota.htm I am creating most of Thomas' family record looking at p. 205 of your Josefsdorf draft but I believe there is high probability on this family being correct per matches on the DOB matching his Ohio death cert, and DOB/POB matches on daughter Elenoria (my great-grandmother) to her death certificate (Eleanora Laura SCHACHERER), and per mention of a son named Peter from oral family sources: 1 Barbara LENHART / 12 Apr 1880 (Setschan) - 9 Sep 1884;2 Anna LENHART / 7 Aug 1881 (Setschan) - ? / oo Josef DONIS 12 Feb 1899 at Josefsdorf / last know residence in Dunn, ND, USA per 1930 US census;3 Peter LENHART / 17 Aug 1883 (Josefsdorf) - 1909 (?) (Montana, USA);4 Elenoria / 3 Jul 1887 (Josefsdorf) - 11 Oct 1969 (Mansfield, OH, USA) / oo Anton SCHACHERER abt. 1910 (per Dickinson, ND, USA US census);5 Johann (Thomas) LENHART / 27 Jun 1892 (Josefsdorf) - Aug 1976 (Guadalajara, Mexico) / no known spouse;6 Magdalena / 24 Aug 1894 - 22 Jan 1897 Some of the above chart has been added to based on further Ancestry.com research. Any other information or reference material you can point to would be fantastic! Best Regards,Andrew From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] CC: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Letter from Setschan dated 24 Jan 1938 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 20:49:02 -0800 Andrew, I have been a long term volunteer at the local Mormon FHC. About 10 years ago a fellow came into the center while I was there who was a descendent of ND Banaters. Since Banaters are thin on the ground here we spent the rest of the day shooting the bull on Banaters. I have forgotten his name, but he had made many trips to the Banat back in the bad old communist days and had many wild stories to tell. As I recall he was descended from Peter Schulz and Marg Wilhelm who lived in Glendive(see the Josefsdorf draft at Banatbooks). I only saw him one additional time when he came in and had several documents with him, among them the letter we eventually published. I made a copy for my use at that time. He was not in very good health and was talking about making still another trip to the Banat. I wondered if he ever was able to make the last trip. In any event, the letter was obviously an effort on the part of the author to leave a bit of family history for his descendents. I agree with your conclusion that the author appears to be Heinrich Schulz. Although I cannot directly document birthplace of Heinirch Schulz but in the Josefsdorf church books his birthplace is given as Tschawosch. There is no family book for Tschawosch at this time nor are copies of the Tschawosch church books generally available(except in the Temeswar archives). Could you give me the death date and place of Thomas Lenhardt. Do you have details on the death dates, places and marriages of his kids? Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Ricks To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:07 AM Subject: [BANAT-L] Letter from Setschan dated 24 Jan 1938 12 Jan 2014 Greetings Gentlemen! I am writing in the interest of the above-described letter and communication between you in 2008 (found in the Banat archives - see link below). It specifically names a direct descendant of mine, i.e. a Thomas LENHART, my second great grandfather. He is buried here in Mansfield, Ohio, USA and I am currently in the process of purchasing a headstone for his grave site - it would be nice to include a place of birth for the engraver. Since I am having trouble navigating the many Banat resources that are so graciously provided, would you kindly point me in the right direction on some questions I have: What is the originating source of this letter? Who authored the letter? It appears to be a Heinrich SCHULZ, pursuant to comparing the stated marriage date in the letter to the Elisenhain-Josefsdorf Family Register 1872-1990 (page 317). Any help you may offer would be deeply appreciated. Sincerely, Andrew Andrew J. Ricks 459 Beethoven St. Mansfield, OH 44902-7012 (419) 612-9008 [email protected] http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BANAT/2008-12/1229585579 http://www.banatbooks.com/ELISENHAIN-JOSEFSDORF-FAMILY-REGISTER-Watermarked.pdf

Sorry Andrew, but I can't add anything other than the letter itself. Glenn Schwartz President, Zichydorf Village Association (http://zichydorfonline.org) Searching: Schwartz, Kleckner, Schönherr in Zichydorf, Banat; Schüssler, Millecker, Lenhardt in Kudritz, Banat; Schwartz, Kory, Pierson/Person in Morawitza, Banat; Kalupsky/Chalupsky in Blumenthal, Banat; Bardua, Kandel, Heuchert in Kolomea, Galicia; Kuntz, Holzer, Kraft, Wolfe, Folk (Volk) in Kutschurgan, Russia; Macht in Volga, Russia. Email: [email protected] On 13/01/2014 7:00 PM, Andrew Ricks wrote: > Hi David! > > Thanks for the quick response and the stories about Peter SCHULZ' > descendant. Very interesting and thorough letter, too! I believe Peter > may be a first cousin to Thomas' wife, Anna SCHULZ, but am still > investigating that. > > Thomas LENHARDT (also spelled LENHART and LENNERT) died here in > Mansfield, Ohio, USA on 14 Mar 1939 at the home of his daughter Laura > (per his Ohio death certificate, and local cemetery, funeral home and > newspaper records), having been here at that time about three years. > His wife Anna appears to have passed 15 Jul 1931 in Dickinson, ND, USA > (have yet to corroborate). > > He originally came from Josefsdorf 9 May 1905 with wife Anna and two > kids, Laura and Thomas (per viewing your extraction of ship records): > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsw > eb.ancestry.com/~banatdata/ND/NDakota.htm > <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsw%20eb.ancestry.com/%7Ebanatdata/ND/NDakota.htm> > > I am creating most of Thomas' family record looking at p. 205 of your > Josefsdorf draft but I believe there is high probability on this > family being correct per matches on the DOB matching his Ohio death > cert, and DOB/POB matches on daughter Elenoria (my great-grandmother) > to her death certificate (Eleanora Laura SCHACHERER), and per mention > of a son named Peter from oral family sources: > > 1 Barbara LENHART / 12 Apr 1880 (Setschan) - 9 Sep 1884; > 2 Anna LENHART / 7 Aug 1881 (Setschan) - ? / oo Josef DONIS 12 Feb > 1899 at Josefsdorf / last know residence in Dunn, ND, USA per 1930 US > census; > 3 Peter LENHART / 17 Aug 1883 (Josefsdorf) - 1909 (?) (Montana, USA); > 4 Elenoria / 3 Jul 1887 (Josefsdorf) - 11 Oct 1969 (Mansfield, OH, > USA) / oo Anton SCHACHERER abt. 1910 (per Dickinson, ND, USA US census); > 5 Johann (Thomas) LENHART / 27 Jun 1892 (Josefsdorf) - Aug 1976 > (Guadalajara, Mexico) / no known spouse; > 6 Magdalena / 24 Aug 1894 - 22 Jan 1897 > > Some of the above chart has been added to based on further > Ancestry.com research. > > Any other information or reference material you can point to would be > fantastic! > > Best Regards, > Andrew > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > CC: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Letter from Setschan dated 24 Jan 1938 > Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 20:49:02 -0800 > > Andrew, > I have been a long term volunteer at the local Mormon FHC. About 10 > years ago a fellow came into the center while I was there who was a > descendent of ND Banaters. Since Banaters are thin on the ground here > we spent the rest of the day shooting the bull on Banaters. I have > forgotten his name, but he had made many trips to the Banat back in > the bad old communist days and had many wild stories to tell. As I > recall he was descended from Peter Schulz and Marg Wilhelm who lived > in Glendive(see the Josefsdorf draft at Banatbooks). I only saw him > one additional time when he came in and had several documents with > him, among them the letter we eventually published. I made a copy for > my use at that time. He was not in very good health and was talking > about making still another trip to the Banat. I wondered if he ever > was able to make the last trip. > In any event, the letter was obviously an effort on the part of the > author to leave a bit of family history for his descendents. I agree > with your conclusion that the author appears to be Heinrich Schulz. > Although I cannot directly document birthplace of Heinirch Schulz but > in the Josefsdorf church books his birthplace is given as Tschawosch. > There is no family book for Tschawosch at this time nor are copies of > the Tschawosch church books generally available(except in the Temeswar > archives). > Could you give me the death date and place of Thomas Lenhardt. Do you > have details on the death dates, places and marriages of his kids? > Dave Dreyer > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andrew Ricks <mailto:[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ; > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > *Sent:* Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:07 AM > *Subject:* [BANAT-L] Letter from Setschan dated 24 Jan 1938 > > 12 Jan 2014 > > Greetings Gentlemen! > > I am writing in the interest of the above-described letter and > communication between you in 2008 (found in the Banat archives - > see link below). > > It specifically names a direct descendant of mine, i.e. a Thomas > LENHART, my second great grandfather. He is buried here in > Mansfield, Ohio, USA and I am currently in the process of > purchasing a headstone for his grave site - it would be nice to > include a place of birth for the engraver. > > Since I am having trouble navigating the many Banat resources that > are so graciously provided, would you kindly point me in the right > direction on some questions I have: > > * What is the originating source of this letter? > * Who authored the letter? It appears to be a Heinrich SCHULZ, > pursuant to comparing the stated marriage date in the letter > to the /Elisenhain-Josefsdorf Family Register 1872-1990/ (page > 317). > > > Any help you may offer would be deeply appreciated. > > Sincerely, > Andrew > > Andrew J. Ricks > 459 Beethoven St. > Mansfield, OH 44902-7012 > (419) 612-9008 > [email protected] > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BANAT/2008-12/1229585579 > http://www.banatbooks.com/ELISENHAIN-JOSEFSDORF-FAMILY-REGISTER-Watermarked.pdf > >

Has anyone been in contact with Charles Amann lately? If so what is his latest email address? I have been trying to contact him with no success. Ray Borschowa

Hello Danube Swabian Researchers, Just recently a 1945 document has been discovered that was issued by Tito's Brigadier General Ivan Rukovina on 10th of January 1945, "buried" in a pile of other documents in the basement of the Museum of Vojvodina. It is an authorization to all the military officers to deal with the ethnic German population in any way they please. An official Carta Blanca for the persecution of Danube Swabians that followed. Please see www.hrastovac.net via the Bulletin Board. Greetings from Vancouver Island, Rosina T. Schmidt www.hrastovac.net

Andrew, I have been a long term volunteer at the local Mormon FHC. About 10 years ago a fellow came into the center while I was there who was a descendent of ND Banaters. Since Banaters are thin on the ground here we spent the rest of the day shooting the bull on Banaters. I have forgotten his name, but he had made many trips to the Banat back in the bad old communist days and had many wild stories to tell. As I recall he was descended from Peter Schulz and Marg Wilhelm who lived in Glendive(see the Josefsdorf draft at Banatbooks). I only saw him one additional time when he came in and had several documents with him, among them the letter we eventually published. I made a copy for my use at that time. He was not in very good health and was talking about making still another trip to the Banat. I wondered if he ever was able to make the last trip. In any event, the letter was obviously an effort on the part of the author to leave a bit of family history for his descendents. I agree with your conclusion that the author appears to be Heinrich Schulz. Although I cannot directly document birthplace of Heinirch Schulz but in the Josefsdorf church books his birthplace is given as Tschawosch. There is no family book for Tschawosch at this time nor are copies of the Tschawosch church books generally available(except in the Temeswar archives). Could you give me the death date and place of Thomas Lenhardt. Do you have details on the death dates, places and marriages of his kids? Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Ricks To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:07 AM Subject: [BANAT-L] Letter from Setschan dated 24 Jan 1938 12 Jan 2014 Greetings Gentlemen! I am writing in the interest of the above-described letter and communication between you in 2008 (found in the Banat archives - see link below). It specifically names a direct descendant of mine, i.e. a Thomas LENHART, my second great grandfather. He is buried here in Mansfield, Ohio, USA and I am currently in the process of purchasing a headstone for his grave site - it would be nice to include a place of birth for the engraver. Since I am having trouble navigating the many Banat resources that are so graciously provided, would you kindly point me in the right direction on some questions I have: a.. What is the originating source of this letter? b.. Who authored the letter? It appears to be a Heinrich SCHULZ, pursuant to comparing the stated marriage date in the letter to the Elisenhain-Josefsdorf Family Register 1872-1990 (page 317). Any help you may offer would be deeply appreciated. Sincerely, Andrew Andrew J. Ricks 459 Beethoven St. Mansfield, OH 44902-7012 (419) 612-9008 [email protected] http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BANAT/2008-12/1229585579 http://www.banatbooks.com/ELISENHAIN-JOSEFSDORF-FAMILY-REGISTER-Watermarked.pdf

Dear Dr. Cornell, Would there have been a Wilhelm Jung (born c. 1760), a Mathias Jung (born c.1769), and a Georg Jung (born c.1770).amongst the early settlers for Orczyforf? These men were the earliest ancestors for the various branches of Jungs I am looking at. I have a wild guess that perhaps most of the Jung families in the Banat are descendant from one settler family of Jungs. Darrel Hockley Regina, SK, Canada

www.GenTeam.at - about 2.1 Million new records from Bavaria (Germany) Vienna, January 12, 2014 on my own account 4 years GenTeam, 22,200 registered users more than 10 million genealogical records online New at GenTeam: 2,1 million index entries of registers from the Bishopric Passau (Germany) Dear colleagues! On my own account: With the current online databases, the actual 22,200 registered users have immediately more than 10,1 million entries at their disposal. Hereby I would like to express my sincere thanks to all, who in the last 4 years have provided valuable data, as well as all who have worked on long-term projects, but also those who invisibly commit towards the functioning and the development of GenTeam. Alone in 2013 more than 1,6 million individual queries were addressed to GenTeam, about 55% inquiries originated in Austria, 12% came from Germany and 10% from the U.S., Israel 10%. The focal points of access were the registries, the complete local directory for the Czech Republic, Austria along with South Tyrol and Slovenia, as well as the IKG databases and obituaries. All databases can be searched free of charge. GenTeam is not profit-oriented and not tied to a membership fee. GenTeam is an European platform through which historians and genealogists alike provide their independent or team-developed databases free of charge at the disposal of all researchers. Other conveniences are a bilingual mailing list, www.GenList.at with more than 1,400 members, as well as a collection of genealogical links found at www.GenLink.at. Mrs. Mireille Trauner manages the GenTeam page at www.facebook.com where all the latest updates can be found. New at GenTeam: Indices of Registries from the Bishopric Passau, approximately 2.1 million records This database does not yet contain all registers (indices) for all the parishes in the Roman Catholic Dioceses Passau, Germany. Current registers vary from parish to parish; the earliest registers begin in 1580 all the way up to the various designated times of personal data protection. At the help-bottom of this database you will find a complete listing of parishes, and time of online registers. At this time, marriage indices of all parishes are completed. Baptism indices are only partially finished, and available in the following areas --a broad area northward the Inn River, the area between the Inn and Danube, the city of Passau almost in its entirety, parts of the Bavarian Forest, and a tract upwards the Danube. Burials are still in the beginning stages of development and are only available in the Rottal, the area between Inn and Danube, almost completely in the city of Passau, as well as a tract upwards the Danube. In this database you will find the parish, volume, page number, surname, given name, profession (not always), address/locality (not always), date / year. You will find the original registries online at www.matricula-online.eu. Our gratitude goes to the Archive of the Dioceses Passau for graciously furnishing us their database. If you would like to work with GenTeam to create a new database, or if you would like to furnish an existing one, or you even just have a question, please contact me, I will be at your disposal. Sincerely yours, Felix Gundacker professional genealogist Pantzergasse 30/8 A-1190 WIEN Tel = 0043 676 40 11 059 email: [email protected] Profession : http://www.ihff.at/IHFFe.htm Databases: www.GenTeam.eu Mailing-List: www.GenList.at Collections of Links: www.GenLink.at Private, courses und download: www.FelixGundacker.at Facebook: http://de-de.facebook.com/pages/GenTeam/121165227901751?ref=ts Forum: http://www.nexusboard.net/shownew.php?siteid=17669 „Connecting genealogists“

A new Brackenau family book has been published. This work supersedes the old out of print volume which covered the years 1760-1852. The new work, by Brunhile Hinkel and Franz Junginger, is a two volume set covering Bruckenau and its Filialen 1730-2013. The price is ca 85 Euro plus postage. Copies can be ordered from Manfred Loris at [email protected] Dave Dreyer

Franz-Anton, As I undertand it Saalhausen was established in 1722. When the Turks invaded the Banat in 1738 the inhabitants in the Southern Banat fled Northwards. Many of these refugees never returned to their homes after the war but settled permanently in localities of the Northern Banat where they sought shelter. Generally the Turkish raiders burnt the villages which came into their possession. As a result, at least one village, Saalhausen, was never rebuilt. There are in the FHL in Salt Lake, several rolls of film containing Saalhausen church books records for the period 1722-1738. According to the FHL catalogue these films also contain records for several adjacent localities, Freudenthal, Jasenova, Roschowa, etc. Although one cannot find Saalhausen on current maps some of these other localities are identifiable and suggest that Saalhausen must have been located 10-20 Km North of Weisskirchen. Indeed the publication by Josef Frank, "Die Besiedlung des suedwestlichen Banats im Lichte historischer Karten und Quellen 1690-1821" contains reproductions of map which show Salhausen(sic) just to the East of Lagerdorf. If you check the catalogue at Familysearch.org you will find three rolls of film related to Saalhausen, FHL 858410, 1190403, and 1271573. I can read German but I cannot write it. Schoenen Gruss aus Kalifornia Dave Dreyer ----- Original Message ----- From: Franz-Anton Plitt To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 9:17 AM Subject: Saalhausen, Banat Hello Mr. Dreyer, found you online while searching for Saalhausen in the Banat. You wrote somewhere, that you know it existed, but not know, where. Can you perhaps give me a hint, where I could look for some infos? Best wishes from a Saalhausener, grewn up in the Sauerland. Franz-Anton Plitt P.s.: Koennen SIe Deutsch?

Hello Susan and Pat, Here is an interesting URL of the Reich der Deutschen Nationen, also known as Holy Roman Empire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire If you scroll down you will see how the borders changed in time. Part of Hasburg's area was included and other parts were not. Happy New Year! Rosina T. Schmidt www.hrastovac.net On 01092014AD--, at 6:35 51000PM, Susan Clarkson wrote: > It does include the entire Hapsburg Empire. If a specific region is known, it might say "aus dem Luxemburgischen" or other region. > > Susan Clarkson > > > ________________________________ > From: Pat Haley <[email protected]> > To: banat LIST <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2014 2:52 PM > Subject: [BANAT-L] Reich > > > When the person you are researching is "aus dem reich" what exactly does that mean? > Does the reich include the entire Hapsburg empire or a specific area? > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The AKdFF offices/archives will be closed during the months of Febuary and March 2014. Those wishing to order a AKdFF publication should place their orders in the next weeks or expect to wait until April. Dave Dreyer

It does include the entire Hapsburg Empire.  If a specific region is known, it might say "aus dem Luxemburgischen" or other region. Susan Clarkson ________________________________ From: Pat Haley <[email protected]> To: banat LIST <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2014 2:52 PM Subject: [BANAT-L] Reich When the person you are researching is "aus dem reich" what exactly does that mean? Does the reich include the entire Hapsburg empire or a specific area?                         ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

When the person you are researching is "aus dem reich" what exactly does that mean? Does the reich include the entire Hapsburg empire or a specific area?

Hello all. Would anyone please know who the parents were of Antonio/Anton Rollmann (March 1873 to c.1911) and of his wife Theresa "Daisy" Schell (8 April 1877 to 16 November 1946) of Neuarad (Ujarad)? They had two children born in Neuarad: John (born 25 February 1900) and Theresa (born 6 May 1903). The daughter was also nicknamed "Daisy". In August of 1903 Anton emmigrated to Pennsylvania, USA; he was a passenger on the ship "Phoenicia". In December of 1905, his wife and the two children joined him in North Dakota, being passengers on the ship "Pannonia" that sailed from Fiume. In 1907 the family homesteaded near Medicine Hat, Alberta where the following were born: Joseph (born 23/27 November 1907), Antony "Tony" (born 2 February 1909), and Frank (born 20 September 1910). After the date of the Census (14 June 1911) Anton died and his widow Theresa married another Medicine Hat homesteader Joseph Sax (15 July 1880 to 6 September 1960) and then the entire family, except for John,  moved to San Jose, Santa Clara County, California, USA. John kept his Rollman surname (dropping one N) while his siblings took on the surname of Sax of their step father (Frank added an extra X to his Saxx). John Rollman worked as a hired farm labourer in Saskatchewan until he married Eva Kronberger (1906 to 1989) of Lang, SK in about 1926 and had ten children. John Rollman died on 28 September 1958 in Vancouver, BC. His occupation at the time of his death was that of chef in various hotels. Theresa Schell Rollmann Sax died on 16 November 1946 at Santa Barbara, California and her husband Joseph Sax died on 6 September 1960 at Santa Cruz, California. All of John Rollman's siblings died in California: Joseph Sax died on 9 November 1946 in Santa Clara; Theresa "Daisy" Sax (Mrs. Raymond Sidney Miner) died on 25 October 1952 in Monterey; Frank Saxx died on 18 June 1983 in Santa Clara; and Tony Sax died on 28 January 1998 in Napa Darrel Hockley Regina, SK, Canada

Hi mandy, If you link to Dave dreyer's ship list website http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~banatdata/DDB/HomePage.htm , at the lower left hand corner select SURNAME, then select KAISER from the list, you will get a list of KAISERS travelling to the US, and it will tell you the village they came from. There are 2 Elisabeths. Perhaps you will find someone. Fran Matkovich -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Amanda Kaiser Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 7:48 PM To: Marilyn Fedewa Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser in Ernsthausen Hi Marilyn, I have contacted Michael and there doesn't seem to be a connection but there maybe somewhere down the line. I also let the researcher know about your find but he seemed to be not convinced with the spelling change. Can I give him you email address so he can confer with you? He is a reasearcher for gross betschkerek and his name is Marco. He found my grandad's brothers and sister. As far as I know my great grandfather Nikolaus Kaiser was born in Ernsthausen 1890's, possibbly married in St Georgen (can't find any records), had children in Grob Betschkerek 1924 - 1934, was at his son's wedding (my grandad Franz Kaiser) in Ottnang, Unterkinberg Nr2 1948 and listed as living in Stayr at the time. It also says his wife was deceased at the time of the marriage. From there I don't know what happened just that my grandad Franz Kaiser came to australia in 1954 without any other family. I don't know where all my gandad's brothers and sister ended up and possibly Elisabeth the younges! t child of my great grandfather Nikolaus may be alive but I have no idea what her married name would be. Take care :) mandy ________________________________________ From: Marilyn Fedewa [[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 30 December 2013 11:32 AM To: Amanda Kaiser Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: Kaiser in Ernsthausen Hi Mandy, Sorry it took so long to respond to your last email, but our power has finally been restored (from a devastating Michigan ice storm). It's so nice to be home again, warm again, and connected!! I think you got all the info right from the previous emails, as far as I can see on the Banat List and your WikiTree page. In the meantime, here's a couple more thoughts for you . . . . 1 - Did you notice in the recent Banat LIst emails that there is a Michael Kaiser in the group? Looks to me as though his email address puts him in Germany, but you still may benefit from comparing notes with him. 2 - I only just received another file on births in Ernsthausen 1926-1945, and haven't had time to go through it all, but in the first few pages I did see two Kveiser/Kaiser's in there as godparents. One was Jacob Kveiser/Kaser, as godparent in Ernsthausen on November 27,1927, to baby Catharina daughter of Andreas Reb and Angela Waleri/Valeri. The other one was an Elisabeth Kveiser/Kaiser in Ernsthausen on April 22, 1928 as godmother to Jacob daughter of Maria Mayer. Not sure who these Kaisers are, relative to your family tree, but it places them in Ernsthausen at the time. For what it's worth. Wishing you continued good luck on your searches, Marilyn On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Amanda Kaiser <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hi Marilyn, I am absolutely blown away that you found the information on my great grandad and great great grandparents! If I could, you'd have the biggest hug right now!!! Yes I work in Education, I have 2 jobs, mornings I work with disabled primary school children running specialist programs in Numeracy, Literacy and Speech and in the afternoon/night I work at the tafe (university) with disabled youth and adults assisting them to gain their qualification in the fields they are studying. End of the semester is very busy! Glad to be able to have time off! For the last 6 months a researcher in the banat has been trying to locate my family. I will pass on the information to him as he was completely stumped as well! He managed to locate the records in Grob Betschkerek of my grandad and his brothers & sister. Pretty sure there is another brother as my remembered having 4 uncles, my dad never knew he had an aunty. The researcher knew someone researching St Georgen and couldn't find my great grandfather in any records! So just to get it right... Nikolaus Kaiser born 1871 St Georgen (parents: Theresia (Mort) and Nikolaus Kaiser) married: 26 Nov 1896 in Ernsthausen to wife Elisabeth Schneider (parents: Anna (Pfendt) and Christof Schneider) Children: all born in Ernsthausen 1. Nikolaus 30 Aug 1896 oo Magdalena Gangl 2. Peter 7 April 1898 3. Mathias 20 May 1900 4. Franz 18 Dec 1901 I am so thankful! You have really made a difference! Thankyou for spending so much of your time to help. I appreciate it more than you know! I hope you have a great Christmas and a really wonderful New Year! :) Mandy ________________________________________ From: Marilyn Fedewa [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] Sent: Saturday, 21 December 2013 4:42 AM To: Amanda Kaiser Subject: Re: Kaiser in Ernsthausen Hi, I figured we'd hear back from you, just wanted to make sure you didn't have a computer meltdown or something more dire. When you study Dave Dreyer's response to my note in the Banat Listings, you'll see that your great grandparents were actually married in Ernsthausen. He/Miklos/Nikolaus was listed as originally from St. George and living in Botos, or vice versa, can't remember at the moment which way the columns are written. And she/Ersebet/Elisabeth was listed as living in Ernsthausen house #181 & 1/2. Not only that, the priest marked down THEIR parents names, so you'll have info back to your great-greats on both of their sides. I'm so happy I was able to do this (I spent about three hours looking through the records after Dave said they weren't there, just hoping it wasn't so, as I know how weird the handwriting and spelling can be, and how frustrating it can be to find nada -- and so many people on the Banat List have helped me enormously. FYI, the List will be very gratified to hear your response. It is lovely group of very committed competent people, all searching for their own families, and learning as they go). So, HAPPY BIRTHDAY again!! Do I deduce from your email that you work at an educational institution? (I am semi-retired but was with Michigan State University and another college and university for years). All the best to you, Amanda! On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 7:15 AM, Amanda Kaiser <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected] gordontafe.edu.au<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: Hi Marilyn! Thank you thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!!!! I have just read my emails with tears streaming and the biggest smile, I can't believe you were able to find info on my great grandfather! I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I've been working 12/13 hour days all week! Thank god today was my last day at work...I'm exhausted!!! My grandad and his siblings were all born in Grob Betschkerek. So I think that my great grandfather might have married in Sankt Georgen because he wasn't in the marriage register in Grob Betschkerek. I am so thankful, you have given me the best birthday present ever! I need to re read your email because I read it quickly and rushed to reply. I just wanted to let you know I was ok. I'll get back to you tomorrow once I have another look at the info and after I have a massive sleep in!!!! Yay! Take care and good night :-) mandy ________________________________________ From: Marilyn Fedewa [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected] et<mailto:[email protected]>>] Sent: Friday, 20 December 2013 1:41 AM To: Amanda Kaiser Subject: Kaiser in Ernsthausen Hi Amanda, hope you are okay and wonder if you received the email and Banat postings about your family? I had thought you might be pleased at finding your great granddad. All the best, Marilyn This message is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of the email or any part thereof (including any attachment), is prohibited and you should notify the sender and delete this email immediately. To the fullest extent permitted by law the Gordon accepts no liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marilyn, It's all good and I hope you're snuggled and warm, I am just excited that you found my great grandfather! I think I sensed he was unsure because he was looking for my great uncles and aunt. He found my great grandfather listed in the church books with correct spelling. The information he is collecting if for a famlienbuch for Gross Betschkerek so I guess he wants to be absolutely certain to publish it. I have seen variations in spelling for other researchers and I don't think spelling was real priority back in those days! But in saying that, it's really hard to read the writing! I have some photos that look like they were taken in a camp. My grandfather was a blacksmith by trade and was a labourer. I don't know where the camp was but perhaps it might be a clue to what might of happened to his siblings. Can i post the photos somewhere? when he came to Australia, he came directly here. I also have a photo of the ship. I remember my grandmother saying that she peeled a lot of potatoes before they could come here to Australia! Someone also posted about the tomatoe sauce. I remember her making that too when she made beef soup but she used tomatoe paste and sugar. I don't remember the reciepe but it was a sweet sauce. Thanks also to the list for helping and it's great to see such a friendly group with such a wealth of information! Take care :) Mandy ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 6 January 2014 7:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: BANAT Digest, Vol 9, Issue 5 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kaiser vs Kveiser? (Marilyn Fedewa) 2. Bering-Kittl (brenda bering) 3. Re: Bering-Kittl (ERDMAN) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 12:11:26 -0500 From: Marilyn Fedewa <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? To: Amanda Kaiser <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]om> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Amanda, I can certainly understand Marco's reluctance to accept the Kveiser's as Kaiser's, given the difference in spelling. That's why I asked for input from Dave and others on the list. I still think it's highly likely that the Nikolaus we found is your great granddad, but it would be great to hear some responses from others on the list regarding name variations, when the priests switched from Hungarian to German to Romanian and Latin, all of which influenced the spelling. As well as phonetics. I'm sure there are many examples of this among List members. In my own family, my maternal grandfather Franz Christ was listed sometimes as Krisczt. My paternal great grandfather showed up as Conrad Hoh (with the umlaut) and Konrad Heh, sometimes with and sometimes without the accent over the e. Other Heh's in my extended Ernsthausen family have appeared as Hech, Hach and Heh in the same document, and one living gentleman, a Holz, who escaped from Ernsthausen in his teens, and who knew my grandparents well, said on occasion in Ernsthausen it was also spelled Hay, which is how we pronounce it today. On Ellis Island records they appeared as Heh, Hee, and Hob. All of these are definitely my family. My great grandmother's surname has appeared on many documents as Dill, Till, Diehl, and probably a couple more, can't remember at the moment. Having said all that, before corresponding directly with Marco, I'd rather first hear back from the List, if that's okay with you. In the meantime, keep on trucking! All the best, Marilyn On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Amanda Kaiser <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > I have contacted Michael and there doesn't seem to be a connection but > there maybe somewhere down the line. I also let the researcher know about > your find but he seemed to be not convinced with the spelling change. Can I > give him you email address so he can confer with you? He is a reasearcher > for gross betschkerek and his name is Marco. He found my grandad's brothers > and sister. As far as I know my great grandfather Nikolaus Kaiser was born > in Ernsthausen 1890's, possibbly married in St Georgen (can't find any > records), had children in Grob Betschkerek 1924 - 1934, was at his son's > wedding (my grandad Franz Kaiser) in Ottnang, Unterkinberg Nr2 1948 and > listed as living in Stayr at the time. It also says his wife was deceased > at the time of the marriage. From there I don't know what happened just > that my grandad Franz Kaiser came to australia in 1954 without any other > family. I don't know where all my gandad's brothers and sister ended up and > possibly Elisabeth the youngest child of my great grandfather Nikolaus may > be alive but I have no idea what her married name would be. > Take care > :) mandy > ________________________________________ > From: Marilyn Fedewa [[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, 30 December 2013 11:32 AM > To: Amanda Kaiser > Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: Kaiser in Ernsthausen > > Hi Mandy, > > Sorry it took so long to respond to your last email, but our power has > finally been restored (from a devastating Michigan ice storm). It's so nice > to be home again, warm again, and connected!! I think you got all the info > right from the previous emails, as far as I can see on the Banat List and > your WikiTree page. In the meantime, here's a couple more thoughts for you > . . . . > > 1 - Did you notice in the recent Banat LIst emails that there is a Michael > Kaiser in the group? Looks to me as though his email address puts him in > Germany, but you still may benefit from comparing notes with him. > > 2 - I only just received another file on births in Ernsthausen 1926-1945, > and haven't had time to go through it all, but in the first few pages I did > see two Kveiser/Kaiser's in there as godparents. One was Jacob > Kveiser/Kaser, as godparent in Ernsthausen on November 27,1927, to baby > Catharina daughter of Andreas Reb and Angela Waleri/Valeri. The other one > was an Elisabeth Kveiser/Kaiser in Ernsthausen on April 22, 1928 as > godmother to Jacob daughter of Maria Mayer. Not sure who these Kaisers are, > relative to your family tree, but it places them in Ernsthausen at the > time. For what it's worth. > > Wishing you continued good luck on your searches, > > Marilyn > > > On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Amanda Kaiser <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > I am absolutely blown away that you found the information on my great > grandad and great great grandparents! If I could, you'd have the biggest > hug right now!!! > Yes I work in Education, I have 2 jobs, mornings I work with disabled > primary school children running specialist programs in Numeracy, Literacy > and Speech and in > the afternoon/night I work at the tafe (university) with disabled youth > and adults assisting them to gain their qualification in the fields they > are studying. End of the > semester is very busy! Glad to be able to have time off! > > For the last 6 months a researcher in the banat has been trying to locate > my family. I will pass on the information to him as he was completely > stumped as well! He > managed to locate the records in Grob Betschkerek of my grandad and his > brothers & sister. Pretty sure there is another brother as my remembered > having 4 uncles, > my dad never knew he had an aunty. The researcher knew someone researching > St Georgen and couldn't find my great grandfather in any records! > > So just to get it right... > > Nikolaus Kaiser born 1871 St Georgen (parents: Theresia (Mort) and > Nikolaus Kaiser) > married: 26 Nov 1896 in Ernsthausen to wife Elisabeth Schneider (parents: > Anna (Pfendt) and Christof Schneider) > Children: all born in Ernsthausen > 1. Nikolaus 30 Aug 1896 oo Magdalena Gangl > 2. Peter 7 April 1898 > 3. Mathias 20 May 1900 > 4. Franz 18 Dec 1901 > > I am so thankful! You have really made a difference! Thankyou for spending > so much of your time to help. I appreciate it more than you know! > I hope you have a great Christmas and a really wonderful New Year! > > :) Mandy > > ________________________________________ > From: Marilyn Fedewa [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] > Sent: Saturday, 21 December 2013 4:42 AM > To: Amanda Kaiser > Subject: Re: Kaiser in Ernsthausen > > Hi, I figured we'd hear back from you, just wanted to make sure you didn't > have a computer meltdown or something more dire. > > When you study Dave Dreyer's response to my note in the Banat Listings, > you'll see that your great grandparents were actually married in > Ernsthausen. He/Miklos/Nikolaus was listed as originally from St. George > and living in Botos, or vice versa, can't remember at the moment which way > the columns are written. And she/Ersebet/Elisabeth was listed as living in > Ernsthausen house #181 & 1/2. Not only that, the priest marked down THEIR > parents names, so you'll have info back to your great-greats on both of > their sides. > > I'm so happy I was able to do this (I spent about three hours looking > through the records after Dave said they weren't there, just hoping it > wasn't so, as I know how weird the handwriting and spelling can be, and how > frustrating it can be to find nada -- and so many people on the Banat List > have helped me enormously. FYI, the List will be very gratified to hear > your response. It is lovely group of very committed competent people, all > searching for their own families, and learning as they go). > > So, HAPPY BIRTHDAY again!! Do I deduce from your email that you work at an > educational institution? (I am semi-retired but was with Michigan State > University and another college and university for years). All the best to > you, Amanda! > > > On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 7:15 AM, Amanda Kaiser <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > Hi Marilyn! > Thank you thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!!!! > I have just read my emails with tears streaming and the biggest smile, I > can't believe you were able to find info on my great grandfather! I'm > sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I've been working 12/13 hour days > all week! Thank god today was my last day at work...I'm exhausted!!! My > grandad and his siblings were all born in Grob Betschkerek. So I think that > my great grandfather might have married in Sankt Georgen because he wasn't > in the marriage register in Grob Betschkerek. I am so thankful, you have > given me the best birthday present ever! I need to re read your email > because I read it quickly and rushed to reply. I just wanted to let you > know I was ok. I'll get back to you tomorrow once I have another look at > the info and after I have a massive sleep in!!!! Yay! Take care and good > night > :-) mandy > ________________________________________ > From: Marilyn Fedewa [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > ><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>] > Sent: Friday, 20 December 2013 1:41 AM > To: Amanda Kaiser > Subject: Kaiser in Ernsthausen > > Hi Amanda, hope you are okay and wonder if you received the email and > Banat postings about your family? I had thought you might be pleased at > finding your great granddad. All the best, Marilyn > > This message is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this > email, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of the email or > any part thereof (including any attachment), is prohibited and you should > notify the sender and delete this email immediately. To the fullest extent > permitted by law the Gordon accepts no liability for any loss or damage > which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments. > > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:58:16 -0500 From: "brenda bering" <[email protected]> Subject: [BANAT-L] Bering-Kittl To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi I am looking for some family members. I am looking for Anton Bering Born November 12, 1904 in Lazarfeld, Yugoslavia to Kathrina Bering, his father is unknown, his grandparents are Johann and Rosina(Dama)Bering. Their children are Johann, Vincent, George, Joseph, Susan, Katie, Mary, Eva, Kathrina, and Adam. I also would like to know who Johann and Rosina's parents are, and if possible who their parents are. I am looking for Anton's wife family, Anna Kittl born December 14, 1909 in Martinica or Siegmondvalwa, Yugoslavia the daughter of Johann and Magdelena(Knapp)Kittl, her siblings are Stephen, Paul, and Barbara. From what one family has written on the pictures Knapp was her maiden name and it was also mentioned that another member of the family was Christina (Lung) Knapp possible to be Magdalena's mom? I am also being told by a family member that Anna's dad was a Schneider and he took on the Kittl name? Thanks for helping out, Brenda ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 15:11:33 -0700 From: "ERDMAN" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Bering-Kittl To: "brenda bering" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Brenda: I will contact you privately on this material as I think I can help you with some of your questions. Shirley-Ann Erdman -----Original Message----- From: brenda bering Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 2:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [BANAT-L] Bering-Kittl Hi I am looking for some family members. I am looking for Anton Bering Born November 12, 1904 in Lazarfeld, Yugoslavia to Kathrina Bering, his father is unknown, his grandparents are Johann and Rosina(Dama)Bering. Their children are Johann, Vincent, George, Joseph, Susan, Katie, Mary, Eva, Kathrina, and Adam. I also would like to know who Johann and Rosina's parents are, and if possible who their parents are. I am looking for Anton's wife family, Anna Kittl born December 14, 1909 in Martinica or Siegmondvalwa, Yugoslavia the daughter of Johann and Magdelena(Knapp)Kittl, her siblings are Stephen, Paul, and Barbara. From what one family has written on the pictures Knapp was her maiden name and it was also mentioned that another member of the family was Christina (Lung) Knapp possible to be Magdalena's mom? I am also being told by a family member that Anna's dad was a Schneider and he took on the Kittl name? Thanks for helping out, Brenda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the BANAT list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the BANAT mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of BANAT Digest, Vol 9, Issue 5 *********************************** This message is confidential and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of the email or any part thereof (including any attachment), is prohibited and you should notify the sender and delete this email immediately. To the fullest extent permitted by law the Gordon accepts no liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments.

Hi All, After looking at Edward's chart, I think it's highly possible that what looked to me like a lower case V might have been the priest's way of writing the lower case AE, letter because the old V's look nothing like what I saw, and the old lower case A's look more like it. I also see in the variations of the name, that the priest's spelling of Kaissez -- or that might be an R at the end -- is one of the many variations. Marilyn / snowed-in in Michigan, with wind chill at minus 10, a great day to ruminate on family trees! On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Edward J. Lowitz < [email protected]> wrote: > I can’t really say as I don’t have the document(s) in front of me but as > the priest’s surname begins as ‘Kais’ and KAISER begins ‘Kais’ (bracketing > the ‘a’ in question), I think it is strange that he would not write them > both the same way. > > > > One thing I didn’t think to mention in my prior post was to do a Google > search on Kveiser to see if it shows up anywhere as a ‘valid’ surname. > Give it a shot (I just did that). Radix had a listing for a Miklos > Kveiser. The Lebanon Daily News (Pennsylvania) has several entries for the > surname Kveiser. There are some Google book entries for Kveiser (that > appear to be in Fraktur) that are a little confusing as well. > > > > Based on those Google hits, it does look as though ‘Kveiser’ might be a > surname in its own right. Weird stuff does happen though so I’d just keep > it in the related family folder and see what a few more years research > uncovers. > > > > BTW, here’s a real good Fraktur chart from Yale: > > > > http://www.library.yale.edu/cataloging/music/fraktur.htm > > > > Ed. > > *From:* Marilyn Fedewa [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Monday, January 06, 2014 11:18 AM > *To:* Edward J. Lowitz; [email protected] > *Cc:* Amanda Kaiser > > *Subject:* Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? > > > > Hi Ed. This is certainly confounding! Ironically, the priest was the same > Ferencz Kaissez for all the records (4 or 5) that I saw from 1896-1901. And > he consistently wrote his name beginning with Ka, with a definitely > close-looped A. At the same time, all the entries that he wrote for what I > take as Amanda's family have what really looks like Kv. Altho I checked an > old German handwriting guide and it appears that some ae letters may be > written somewhat like a V or a U. > > > > What do you think? > > > > Marilyn > > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Edward J. Lowitz < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Correct me if I'm wrong but I have never heard where the parish priest > asked > the parishioners to check his spelling after he made an entry in any of the > Registers. I'd be interested to know if they did. Doesn't help out if the > parishioners were illiterate, but it would be nice for us to know. > > I once came across a transcribed record which listed the surname as > 'Basset'. As I was very familiar with the family and suspected the entry > (made by a JP) was wrong, I looked at the source record and noticed the JP > slanted his script 'r' upwards with a little curl at the end - when he > wrote > 'are', it could be confused as 'ase'. He had written 'Barret' which the > transcriber thought was 'Basset'! I had know that 'Barret' was the correct > entry. > > In the Kaiser/Kveiser scenario, we are looking at a 1 to 2 letter variance > - > possibly the 've' was meant to be an 'a'. Was Kveiser written more than > one > time in the source documents? Was it written as Kveiser only by one writer > or multiple writers in the source documents? What surname spellings are > associated with known peripheral family members (ex. brothers, sisters, > parents, etc.)? > > Bahlow's book on German Surnames does not have an entry for Kveiser as a > subset of Kaiser or as an independent entry. Then again, it does not list > my surname either (Wendian name for a small town in NE Germany). :-) > > Following on those lines, surnames do have meaning. If you can't find a > meaning/translation for 'Kveiser', I'd assume that either the priest got > into the sacrificial wine or else someone bumped his arm when he was making > the entry. > > Ed. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Marilyn Fedewa > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 12:11 PM > To: Amanda Kaiser > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? > > Hi Amanda, > > I can certainly understand Marco's reluctance to accept the Kveiser's as > Kaiser's, given the difference in spelling. That's why I asked for input > from Dave and others on the list. I still think it's highly likely that the > Nikolaus we found is your great granddad, but it would be great to hear > some > responses from others on the list regarding name variations, when the > priests switched from Hungarian to German to Romanian and Latin, all of > which influenced the spelling. As well as phonetics. I'm sure there are > many > examples of this among List members. > > In my own family, my maternal grandfather Franz Christ was listed sometimes > as Krisczt. My paternal great grandfather showed up as Conrad Hoh (with the > umlaut) and Konrad Heh, sometimes with and sometimes without the accent > over > the e. Other Heh's in my extended Ernsthausen family have appeared as Hech, > Hach and Heh in the same document, and one living gentleman, a Holz, who > escaped from Ernsthausen in his teens, and who knew my grandparents well, > said on occasion in Ernsthausen it was also spelled Hay, which is how we > pronounce it today. On Ellis Island records they appeared as Heh, Hee, and > Hob. All of these are definitely my family. My great grandmother's surname > has appeared on many documents as Dill, Till, Diehl, and probably a couple > more, can't remember at the moment. > > Having said all that, before corresponding directly with Marco, I'd rather > first hear back from the List, if that's okay with you. > > In the meantime, keep on trucking! All the best, > > Marilyn > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Amanda Kaiser > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Hi Marilyn, > > I have contacted Michael and there doesn't seem to be a connection but > > there maybe somewhere down the line. I also let the researcher know > > about your find but he seemed to be not convinced with the spelling > > change. Can I give him you email address so he can confer with you? He > > is a reasearcher for gross betschkerek and his name is Marco. He found > > my grandad's brothers and sister. As far as I know my great > > grandfather Nikolaus Kaiser was born in Ernsthausen 1890's, possibbly > > married in St Georgen (can't find any records), had children in Grob > > Betschkerek 1924 - 1934, was at his son's wedding (my grandad Franz > > Kaiser) in Ottnang, Unterkinberg Nr2 1948 and listed as living in > > Stayr at the time. It also says his wife was deceased at the time of > > the marriage. From there I don't know what happened just that my > > grandad Franz Kaiser came to australia in 1954 without any other > > family. I don't know where all my gandad's brothers and sister ended > > up and possibly Elisabeth the youngest child of my great grandfather > Nikolaus may be alive but I have no idea what her married name would be. > > Take care > > :) mandy > > ________________________________________ >

I can't really say as I don't have the document(s) in front of me but as the priest's surname begins as 'Kais' and KAISER begins 'Kais' (bracketing the 'a' in question), I think it is strange that he would not write them both the same way. One thing I didn't think to mention in my prior post was to do a Google search on Kveiser to see if it shows up anywhere as a 'valid' surname. Give it a shot (I just did that). Radix had a listing for a Miklos Kveiser. The Lebanon Daily News (Pennsylvania) has several entries for the surname Kveiser. There are some Google book entries for Kveiser (that appear to be in Fraktur) that are a little confusing as well. Based on those Google hits, it does look as though 'Kveiser' might be a surname in its own right. Weird stuff does happen though so I'd just keep it in the related family folder and see what a few more years research uncovers. BTW, here's a real good Fraktur chart from Yale: http://www.library.yale.edu/cataloging/music/fraktur.htm Ed. From: Marilyn Fedewa [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 11:18 AM To: Edward J. Lowitz; [email protected] Cc: Amanda Kaiser Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? Hi Ed. This is certainly confounding! Ironically, the priest was the same Ferencz Kaissez for all the records (4 or 5) that I saw from 1896-1901. And he consistently wrote his name beginning with Ka, with a definitely close-looped A. At the same time, all the entries that he wrote for what I take as Amanda's family have what really looks like Kv. Altho I checked an old German handwriting guide and it appears that some ae letters may be written somewhat like a V or a U. What do you think? Marilyn On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Edward J. Lowitz <[email protected]> wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I have never heard where the parish priest asked the parishioners to check his spelling after he made an entry in any of the Registers. I'd be interested to know if they did. Doesn't help out if the parishioners were illiterate, but it would be nice for us to know. I once came across a transcribed record which listed the surname as 'Basset'. As I was very familiar with the family and suspected the entry (made by a JP) was wrong, I looked at the source record and noticed the JP slanted his script 'r' upwards with a little curl at the end - when he wrote 'are', it could be confused as 'ase'. He had written 'Barret' which the transcriber thought was 'Basset'! I had know that 'Barret' was the correct entry. In the Kaiser/Kveiser scenario, we are looking at a 1 to 2 letter variance - possibly the 've' was meant to be an 'a'. Was Kveiser written more than one time in the source documents? Was it written as Kveiser only by one writer or multiple writers in the source documents? What surname spellings are associated with known peripheral family members (ex. brothers, sisters, parents, etc.)? Bahlow's book on German Surnames does not have an entry for Kveiser as a subset of Kaiser or as an independent entry. Then again, it does not list my surname either (Wendian name for a small town in NE Germany). :-) Following on those lines, surnames do have meaning. If you can't find a meaning/translation for 'Kveiser', I'd assume that either the priest got into the sacrificial wine or else someone bumped his arm when he was making the entry. Ed. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marilyn Fedewa Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 12:11 PM To: Amanda Kaiser Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Kaiser vs Kveiser? Hi Amanda, I can certainly understand Marco's reluctance to accept the Kveiser's as Kaiser's, given the difference in spelling. That's why I asked for input from Dave and others on the list. I still think it's highly likely that the Nikolaus we found is your great granddad, but it would be great to hear some responses from others on the list regarding name variations, when the priests switched from Hungarian to German to Romanian and Latin, all of which influenced the spelling. As well as phonetics. I'm sure there are many examples of this among List members. In my own family, my maternal grandfather Franz Christ was listed sometimes as Krisczt. My paternal great grandfather showed up as Conrad Hoh (with the umlaut) and Konrad Heh, sometimes with and sometimes without the accent over the e. Other Heh's in my extended Ernsthausen family have appeared as Hech, Hach and Heh in the same document, and one living gentleman, a Holz, who escaped from Ernsthausen in his teens, and who knew my grandparents well, said on occasion in Ernsthausen it was also spelled Hay, which is how we pronounce it today. On Ellis Island records they appeared as Heh, Hee, and Hob. All of these are definitely my family. My great grandmother's surname has appeared on many documents as Dill, Till, Diehl, and probably a couple more, can't remember at the moment. Having said all that, before corresponding directly with Marco, I'd rather first hear back from the List, if that's okay with you. In the meantime, keep on trucking! All the best, Marilyn On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Amanda Kaiser <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > I have contacted Michael and there doesn't seem to be a connection but > there maybe somewhere down the line. I also let the researcher know > about your find but he seemed to be not convinced with the spelling > change. Can I give him you email address so he can confer with you? He > is a reasearcher for gross betschkerek and his name is Marco. He found > my grandad's brothers and sister. As far as I know my great > grandfather Nikolaus Kaiser was born in Ernsthausen 1890's, possibbly > married in St Georgen (can't find any records), had children in Grob > Betschkerek 1924 - 1934, was at his son's wedding (my grandad Franz > Kaiser) in Ottnang, Unterkinberg Nr2 1948 and listed as living in > Stayr at the time. It also says his wife was deceased at the time of > the marriage. From there I don't know what happened just that my > grandad Franz Kaiser came to australia in 1954 without any other > family. I don't know where all my gandad's brothers and sister ended > up and possibly Elisabeth the youngest child of my great grandfather Nikolaus may be alive but I have no idea what her married name would be. > Take care > :) mandy > ________________________________________