Ann, First, you should always give us a subject line that describes what your post is about. This is for YOU, not us. In the future, YOU are more likely to get responses from people with a common interest if they see the information in the subject line. They are unlikely to open every post to see if it pertains to them, but they will open posts that list their surname or location interests. Now for your question. Which Endingen? There are two in the modern German province of Baden-Wuerttemberg. One Endingen is known today as Endingen am Kaiserstuhl. Although it did not become part of the Grand Duchy of Baden until 1806, we normally see old references to it as being in Baden. It's only a few kilometers from the French borner. To find it in mapquest, enter the full modern name for place. It's website is www.endingen.de Another Endingen is now part of the municipality of Balingen and has been part of Wuerttemberg since 1403. It's website is www.balingen.de Select Stadtteile (parts of the city) to find some information on Endingen. Based on surname mapping of Kienlin in Das Telefonbuch (see http://christoph.stoepel.net/geogen/en/Default.aspx ) I'd say that the Kienlins came from Endingen near Balingen. It appears that Catholic parish records in both places go back into the late 1500's early 1600's so either should show the birth entry for your Bartholomaeus KIENLIN. If you checked the microfilms and they do not show his birth, then you'll need to dig further. Here are my suggestions: 1. Read his marriage entries to see if they state where he was from. If you need help, scan the entries and ask for help on this list. 2. See what civil records are available on film and look for him there. 3. Consider that he moved to Endingen from another political entity. After the Peace of Westphalia (end of the 30-Years War) the population in SW Germany was down to 50% of what it was 100 years previously. Major and minor aristocratic families as well as religious orders began recruiting people from other areas to move into their domains. Switzerland and Alsace would be likely sources for your ancestor if he didn't arrive from a nearby village. Finding his birth in Switzerland would not be all that unusual because of the resourses available because of Swiss government decrees in the past century. Looking for roots, I see Germany today has about 40 Kienlins listed in the phonebook (one is von Kienlin). Switzerland has three of which two have "von" prefixes. Austria has 1 which is a von. France has only 2, neither a von. Given that there are von Kienlins, there must be a place called Kienlin but I couldnit find it. Googling, I see some von Kienlins associated with Schloss Erolzheim but that appears to be a 20th Century acquisition. Judging from the surname mapping, I would guess that Kienlin came from somewhere near Endingen/Balingen. Let me know what you know and what you've already done and I can suggest other ways to find his origins. Regards, Paul +++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Ann Francesconi <annf@usa2net.net> Reply-To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BW] Nussbaum, Germany-Kiemle Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:34:00 -0400 Nancy, I am researching the Kienlin surname.The earliest ancestor is Bartholomaeus Kienlin who married three times. The names of his wives are Anna Maria Gerber (married 23 Jan 1667),Elisabetha Flesch married 1 Oct 1690) and Anna Maria Freytag ( married 4 Feb 1698). All marriages were in Endingen. I have no information on the birth of Bartholomaeus Kienlin. Could he be related to Anna Maria? Any help would be appreciated. Ann