Judith, Your next step is to rent the film(s) and look for him. It seems clear from Fredericka's exit application that she was leaving Baden in order to marry Mathias. I doubt she was a mail-order catalog bride. It's likely he had met her before he left Baden and corresponded with her and she came when he was established (a condition required by honor or her family?). How was it that he had met her? He was from the same place or from very near the same place or he had done part of an apprenticeship in her town. If you don't find Mathias' baptism or confirmation entry in Gruenwettersbach, then we'll have to figure out if he was from someplace nearby. ShtetlSeeker lists 14 towns/villages within a 3 miles radius and 112 within 10 miles. Residents in the smaller places within a mile probably attended church in Gruenwettersbach so you'll pick that up with the book/film you'll start with. If we can't find him in a nearby town, we'll have to assume that a mutual aquaintance got them together. I can hear how it started. While hacking at a hanging half of skinned hog, Matt's co-worker says to him, "Why don't you write to my cousin Fredericka? She's very handy in the butcher shop and not all that bad to look at." Now some things you might find interesting about Gruenwettersbach: It looks like it is grouped with Karlsruhe for administrative purposes. Karlsruhe's website is: http://www.karlsruhe.de/ The various villages included at stadtteile (city parts) with Karlsruhe are listed at: http://www1.karlsruhe.de/Stadtteile/index.htm Your village's page within the Karlsruhe website is: http://www1.karlsruhe.de/Stadtteile/Wettersbach/index.htm Gruenwettersbach and Palmbach are grouped together and referred to as Wettersbach and it appears they have their own little website, the little rebels! See http://www.wettersbach.de/ But you won't find Wettersbach on any map. Here's a short history of Wettersbach (Gruenwettersbach and Palmbach): http://www1.karlsruhe.de/Stadtteile/Wettersbach/geschichte.htm If you can push your Lichtenberger (and Schlageter?) lines back to about 1700 in this area, get back to me and ask me to review the history on the above page and suggest how you should proceed. It looks like a large percentage of the inhabitants of this area came there in 1701 from deep in the Alps in northern Italy. They were Waldensians (Waldensen in German, Vaudois in French.) Northern Italy was Burgundy back then. Many Waldensians had fled their secluded mountain valleys in Burgundy when the Treaty of Nantes was suddenly revoked in 1685 and persecution against French protestants was agressively renewed. The refugees ended up in Switzerland and then were invited into many places in Baden, Wuerttemberg, the Palatinate etc. The village of Palmbach was established in 1701 by 28 of 35 Waldensian refugee families that came there. Palmbach's name is an evolution of the name La Balme which I think was the village they had fled. (According to the history on this page, La Balme meant Zuflucht which translates into English as retreat.) The other 7 families settled in Untermutschelbach which I can't find on any map but certainly is/was down the hill from nearby Mutschelbach. Over time, the Waldensians cetainly intermaried with the citizens of Gruenwettersbach so you may find some of Pierre Vaude's (Peter Waldo in English) followers in your family tree and you'll know to look for them in a place called La Balme in Burgundy (I theorize). To learn more about the Waldensians, google the word Waldensian (or Vaudois, or "Peter Waldo" and Lyon" etc). After the devastations of 150 years, including plagues, famines, the 30-Years war ending in 1648, and a nasty incursion and occupation (1690's) by France's Louis XIV's armies into Baden and Wuerttemberg, Gruenwettersbach was down to 30 inhabitants. (I may be fracturing this account a little since my German reading requires a dictionary which I'm not taking time to use on every word outside my vocabulary.). So, do the math and you'll see that many others must have been invited to immigrate to Gruenwettersbach in about 1700. At that time, the area was an enclave of Wuerttemberg in the midst of Baden. It was traded to Baden for one of Baden's enclaves in Wuerttemberg (no doubt) in 1806. I can picture the bargaining table: "OK. To summarize, we agree to swap Gruenwettersbach, Palmbach, and two villages to be named next year for Dorfidingen along with it's mortgage and the pesky cloister on the top of St. Allufingen on our mutual border near the frontier with the Canton of Zurich.") Where did the other, non-Waldensian invitees come from in 1701? (I am no longer getting this from the webpage sited but freestyling it.) Many were the Waldensians' fellow refugees and in much bigger numbers--Huguenots from France and Switzerland (as refugees from France) and Anabaptists who had left Switzerland and resided across the Rhine from Gruenwettersbach in the Alsace. They also came family by family from places where people were getting enough to eat, multiplying, and not getting a share (because of law/custom) of daddy's estate--German-speaking cantons in Switzerland, the Alsace, and to a lesser extent Bavaria and Austria. Now back to what I was originally going to tell you. In the SW Germany Emigration online Database, I see the records regarding Friederica Lichtenberger's emigration that you referred to in your first post. Here is what you can see online: Emigrant identification 150777 First name Friederike Last name Lichtenberger Emigration year 1851 Country of destination Nordamerika Last place of residence Karlsruhe Marital status verh. Age at emigration 20 Comments verheiratet mit Schlageter; gestorben; Continent Nordamerika County nicht zuweisbar Archive Generallandesarchiv Karlsruhe District Grünwettersbach Based on what you said, I'd guess she emigrated in 1851. When her father died shortly thereafter, someone did all of the legal work for her and was able to send her portion of the inheritance to her in 1854 when the request for emigration/legal work was finally completed. Alternately, after her father died, she applied and left in 1851, and the legal work was completed by another (an attorney or relative) and approved finally in 1854 when her money was sent to her. Here's someone you should dig around about. He's in the same emigration database. Emigrant identification 150774 First name Jakob Last name Lichtenberger Emigration year 1850 Country of destination Nordamerika Last place of residence Karlsruhe District Grünwettersbach Profession Schuhmacher Age at emigration 21 Continent Nordamerika County nicht zuweisbar Archive Generallandesarchiv Karlsruhe Jakob is likely a brother or a cousin to your Friederike. Keep an eye out for him in the U.S. Census records. Do you see him living near the Schlageters, for example? Back to Gruenwettersbach. It's postal code is 76228. Looking for Schlageters in the German phonebook that live in that postal code, I found zip. But looking for Lichtenbergers in the same, I found two: Name Address Postal Code City Phone Lichtenberger Erich Grünwettersbacher Str. 19 76228 Karlsruhe 0721 45 04 78 Lichtenberger Gunther Wingertgasse 12 76228 Karlsruhe 0721 45 08 25 Next time you're over there, given them a call. Using mapquest, I can see they are both right in the village of Gruenwettersbach. The first one, Erich, lives on the border of Gruenwettersbach and Palmbach. Regarding Schlageter possibly being from Gruenwettersbach, the phone book lists the following Schlageters in Karlsruhe: Name Address Postal Code City Phone Schlageter Am Eichelgarten 35 76199 Karlsruhe 0721 61 17 69 Schlageter Hans-Joachim Ernststr. 92 76131 Karlsruhe 0721 61 76 94 Schlageter Karl Trierer Str. 2 76187 Karlsruhe 0721 69 87 42 Schlageter Waldemar Ebertstr. 51 76135 Karlsruhe 0721 81 65 90 The first and last postal codes are within 3 and 5 miles respectively of Gruenwettersbach. The other two are within 10 miles. Several people on this list have recently had luck by emailing the village in question. If you don't speak German, write it in English. Keep it short and to one question. I couldn't find an email address for you but there is an email form at: http://www.karlsruhe.de/kontakt/webmail.de?dst=OVWe I took the liberty to pretend I was you and I wrote the following message: "Hi, My great great grandfather Mathias Schlageter was born in 1825 in Baden and emigrated to America in about 1847/49. Friederike/Friederica Lichtenberger was born in Gruenwettersbach in about 1831 and emigrated to America in 1851 in order to marry Mathias Schlageter. Do your old records show that Mathias Schlageter, the son of Anton Schlageter, was born or ever lived in Wettersbach? Thanks for your help. Mrs. Eggers in the United States" I put your email address as the return so you might get an answer in a few days. I'd love to see what they say. Good luck. Paul +++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Judith Eggers <msgene@mac.com> To: Paul Rands <paulrands@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [BW] Searching for SCHLAGETER Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:51:24 -0400 Hi Paul, I am looking for the origins and family of Mathias Schlageter. He can be accounted for from the 1860 Federal census until he is buried in 1899. He and Fredericka lived in NYC as did all the children. have no idea where he came from, when he came to the US. I can surmise that it is his immigration papers from New Orleans but there is no way to be sure as there is no age or birth place. I have been able to trace Fredericka's brother to Ohio. Her emigration is documented. I do have access to the rental of LDS films. I have not done that as of yet. I live in NJ so my search is for German records and ancestry. All his descendants are accounted for. He is my GG Grandfather. Thanks for the comments and food for thought. Judy in NJ