Linda, Others will translate the entry, but I can help with the name issue. In the old German culture they used Christian-rufname-surnames instead of first-middle-surnames as we do in America. The rufname was the name they were commonly known by in the family. The Christian name may or may not appear in official documents, even in later church entries. Then, sometimes a later scribe will add a Christian name (i.e., Johann or Hans), even though the person was not baptized with one. When they came to a region that used first-middle-surnames, many reversed their Christian name and rufname or simply dropped the Christian name. My GGgrandfather, Ggrandfather, and Gaunt all reversed their names: Johann David to David John, Christian Friedrich to Frederick Christian, and Anna Maria to Mary Ann. At 02:02 AM 10/26/2008, you wrote: >From: lsmontoya@aol.com >Subject: [BW] Need some help with translation >To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com > >... >I also located Jacob Humel, Marx Osterle, and a "Johan" Leonhard >Braun on a ships passenger list from Bremen, arriving in Baltimore >in June 1853. I've never seen my ancestor use the "Johan" with his >name before. Was it common for folks to drop the first name and go >by the middle name?? I'm about 90% sure this must be my ancestor, >since he is traveling with the two men mentioned in his emigration >application, and there is another person listed with him, Andreas >Braun, with a comment that they are brothers. My ancestor also had a >brother Andreas the same age as this guy.? However I have not >located an emigration application for Andreas, nor can I find him in >the census.? There is an Andreas Braun listed on Ancestry under >Bremen Germany Ship Crew Lists, but I do not have the premium >membership so I can't access the document. >... > >Thanks in advance for any help. > >Linda ____________________________________________________________ Are you safe? Click for free quote on home security system. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4ueRwz3LOIGIBrIe3B1a9H1vKRud6UioO7ZDvSzA0bjNPhfW/

Fred, I am much interested in the information you posted on the name issue. My great grandmother's emigration record, baptismal record, civil registry books, etc. from Urloffen give her name as Helena Schelli. Passengers arriving in port of New Orleans record her name as Helena. Family Bible has her name recorded as Helena. I never saw a middle name written, even in the documents from the Archives, of which I have many. Yet the marriage record in Memphis, Shelby Co., TN reads "Minna Schelli." Is there an explanation for this? This has long been a puzzle to me. Thanks for any help. Wanda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred H Held" <fhheld@netzero.net> To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com>; <lsmontoya@aol.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [BW] Need some help with translation > Linda, > > Others will translate the entry, but I can help with the name issue. > > In the old German culture they used Christian-rufname-surnames > instead of first-middle-surnames as we do in America. The rufname was > the name they were commonly known by in the family. The Christian > name may or may not appear in official documents, even in later > church entries. Then, sometimes a later scribe will add a Christian > name (i.e., Johann or Hans), even though the person was not baptized > with one. When they came to a region that used > first-middle-surnames, many reversed their Christian name and rufname > or simply dropped the Christian name. My GGgrandfather, Ggrandfather, > and Gaunt all reversed their names: Johann David to David John, > Christian Friedrich to Frederick Christian, and Anna Maria to Mary Ann. > > > > At 02:02 AM 10/26/2008, you wrote: >>From: lsmontoya@aol.com >>Subject: [BW] Need some help with translation >>To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com >> >>... >>I also located Jacob Humel, Marx Osterle, and a "Johan" Leonhard >>Braun on a ships passenger list from Bremen, arriving in Baltimore >>in June 1853. I've never seen my ancestor use the "Johan" with his >>name before. Was it common for folks to drop the first name and go >>by the middle name?? I'm about 90% sure this must be my ancestor, >>since he is traveling with the two men mentioned in his emigration >>application, and there is another person listed with him, Andreas >>Braun, with a comment that they are brothers. My ancestor also had a >>brother Andreas the same age as this guy.? However I have not >>located an emigration application for Andreas, nor can I find him in >>the census.? There is an Andreas Braun listed on Ancestry under >>Bremen Germany Ship Crew Lists, but I do not have the premium >>membership so I can't access the document. >>...

Fred, thank you for the explanation. I have noticed that several of Leonhard's sons (born here in America) did that, and it drove me crazy because?I never knew to look for Andrew David, or David Andrew.? Now at least I understand what they were doing. I do have another question maybe you can answer.? The passenger arrival list says their ship arrived in Baltimore on June 13, 1853.? The emigration application documents mentioned Leonhard being approved March 24, 1853.? I've read that the voyage would take about 45 days which means they must've left Bremen around the first of April, which only gave them a week to get from Geislingen an der Steige to Bremen.? Do you know if there was a rail line they might have taken? Or would they have traveled by boat in 1853? Thank you again! Linda -----Original Message----- From: Fred H Held <fhheld@netzero.net> To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com; lsmontoya@aol.com Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 5:49 am Subject: Re: Need some help with translation Linda,? ? Others will translate the entry, but I can help with the name issue.? ? In the old German culture they used Christian-rufname-surnames instead of first-middle-surnames as we do in America. The rufname was the name they were commonly known by in the family. The Christian name may or may not appear in official documents, even in later church entries. Then, sometimes a later scribe will add a Christian name (i.e., Johann or Hans), even though the person was not baptized with one. When they came to a region that used first-middle-surnames, many reversed their Christian name and rufname or simply dropped the Christian name. My GGgrandfather, Ggrandfather, and Gaunt all reversed their names: Johann David to David John, Christian Friedrich to Frederick Christian, and Anna Maria to Mary Ann.? ? ? At 02:02 AM 10/26/2008, you wrote:? >From: lsmontoya@aol.com? >Subject: [BW] Need some help with translation? >To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com? >? >...? >I also located Jacob Humel, Marx Osterle, and a "Johan" Leonhard >Braun on a ships passenger list from Bremen, arriving in Baltimore >in June 1853. I've never seen my ancestor use the "Johan" with his >name before. Was it common for folks to drop the first name and go >by the middle name?? I'm about 90% sure this must be my ancestor, >since he is traveling with the two men mentioned in his emigration >application, and there is another person listed with him, Andreas >Braun, with a comment that they are brothers. My ancestor also had a >brother Andreas the same age as this guy.? However I have not >located an emigration application for Andreas, nor can I find him in >the census.? There is an Andreas Braun listed on Ancestry under >Bremen Germany Ship Crew Lists, but I do not have the premium >membership so I can't access the document.? >...? >? >Thanks in advance for any help.? >? >Linda? ? ____________________________________________________________? Are you safe? Click for free quote on home security system. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4ueRwz3LOIGIBrIe3B1a9H1vKRud6UioO7ZDvSzA0bjNPhfW/?