Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, For those who are seeking emigration records or indexes for German ancestors and those who might be coming up empty-handed in the process, here are a few observations that might at least be helpful to know. :-) It is important to keep in mind that emigration (the leaving of one's country of origin to settle in another) was not always motivated by positive circumstances. *While it was the usual procedure* to seek official permission from the local authorities before leaving, many, many emigrants did NOT. For many of them, emigration was the only means to avoid obligatory military service, economic hardship, serious diseases, the ravages of war, revolution, and other compelling situations. Under certain kinds of circumstances, people may have decided not to *publicize* their intention to leave by applying for formal permission beforehand, and left without it. A considerable number of people NEVER obtained this permission, but eventuallyemigrated nonetheless. One of our primary concerns as family researchers is to understand that some of the records or other documents we may look for might *not have ever been created.* Regardless of one's specific reasons for leaving, if an emigrant did NOT formally apply for *permission* to leave, no official record would have been created concerning their emigration, and therefore their names and other information would NOT likely be found in the emigration indexes. This does not necessarily mean you won't find information about their travel in a ships' *passenger departure or arrival lists,* which is sometimes a good alternative if you can't locate emigration permits for them. Remember--EMIGRATION records and ships' PASSENGER LISTS are **NOT** the same things! They were created for different reasons, in separate places, and at different times in the course of a person's emigration and travel. (See the end of this message for some links to information about passenger list research.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- As to the reasons for European emigration, they were many, and in effect over a long period in the 19th century. As has been mentioned on this list in the past, one factor that led to German emigration was the the unstable political situation in the German states in 1848, following the failed revolutions. Many individuals indeed fled Europe during this time, but their departure in considerable numbers was not limited to that immediate period, nor to that cause. Don't forget that there were various notable wars in the German states over time, and many people emigrated to avoid military service, or the hardships imposed by war. Increases in taxation created economic hardship for many people, and affordable land became scarce with the ever-growing population. Increasing industrialization negatively affected a number of trades, and drove many to the overcrowded cities in search of employment. As available employment progressively declined, many people chose to emigrate to avoid economic problems. Others were attracted to emigrate to the US or other countries because they already had someone there who was benefitting from better employment opportunities or plentiful land to encourage them. Added to unstable European political climates or the threat or reality of war, these and other factors no doubt made the prospect of life in the USA and elsewhere quite promising at the time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For detailed practical help on researching *ships' passenger lists* (and also US Naturalization documents), see Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step advice]: http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html For more general info on what you might expect to find in *emigration records* (if you can secure them), you might like to visit my Web page on the subject, Research Access/Background for the Baden Emigration Index: http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/ Hope this helps! :-) Warmest wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List ====================================================

I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of my maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any further suggestions? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carla Heller" <mscarlah@earthlink.net> To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 12:57 PM Subject: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find (orNon-Existent) :-) > Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, > > For those who are seeking emigration records or indexes for German > ancestors > and those who might be coming up empty-handed in the process, here are a > few > observations that might at least be helpful to know. :-) > > It is important to keep in mind that emigration (the leaving of one's > country of origin to settle in another) was not always motivated by > positive > circumstances. *While it was the usual procedure* to seek official > permission from the local authorities before leaving, many, many emigrants > did NOT. For many of them, emigration was the only means to avoid > obligatory > military service, economic hardship, serious diseases, the ravages of war, > revolution, and other compelling situations. Under certain kinds of > circumstances, people may have decided not to *publicize* their intention > to > leave by applying for formal permission beforehand, and left without it. A > considerable number of people NEVER obtained this permission, but > eventuallyemigrated nonetheless. > > One of our primary concerns as family researchers is to understand that > some > of the records or other documents we may look for might *not have ever > been > created.* Regardless of one's specific reasons for leaving, if an emigrant > did NOT formally apply for *permission* to leave, no official record would > have been created concerning their emigration, and therefore their names > and > other information would NOT likely be found in the emigration indexes. > This > does not necessarily mean you won't find information about their travel in > a > ships' *passenger departure or arrival lists,* which is sometimes a good > alternative if you can't locate emigration permits for them. > > Remember--EMIGRATION records and ships' PASSENGER LISTS are **NOT** the > same > things! > > They were created for different reasons, in separate places, and at > different times in the course of a person's emigration and travel. (See > the > end of this message for some links to information about passenger list > research.) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > As to the reasons for European emigration, they were many, and in effect > over a long period in the 19th century. As has been mentioned on this list > in the past, one factor that led to German emigration was the the unstable > political situation in the German states in 1848, following the failed > revolutions. Many individuals indeed fled Europe during this time, but > their departure in considerable numbers was not limited to that immediate > period, nor to that cause. Don't forget that there were various notable > wars in the German states over time, and many people emigrated to avoid > military service, or the hardships imposed by war. > > Increases in taxation created economic hardship for many people, and > affordable land became scarce with the ever-growing population. Increasing > industrialization negatively affected a number of trades, and drove many > to > the overcrowded cities in search of employment. As available employment > progressively declined, many people chose to emigrate to avoid economic > problems. Others were attracted to emigrate to the US or other countries > because they already had someone there who was benefitting from better > employment opportunities or plentiful land to encourage them. Added to > unstable European political climates or the threat or reality of war, > these > and other factors no doubt made the prospect of life in the USA and > elsewhere quite promising at the time. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For detailed practical help on researching *ships' passenger lists* (and > also US Naturalization documents), see Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' > Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step > advice]: > > http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html > > For more general info on what you might expect to find in *emigration > records* (if you can secure them), you might like to visit my Web page on > the subject, Research Access/Background for the Baden Emigration Index: > > http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/ > > Hope this helps! :-) > > Warmest wishes, > > Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net > List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List > ==================================================== > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

-----Original Message----- From: Sheri Martin [mailto:elm121147@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 7:59 AM To: mscarlah@earthlink.net; baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find (orNon-Existent) :-) I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of my maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any further suggestions? ===================== Dear Sheri, I think we've managed to create some confusion for you. What you need to understand was that what we know as "Germany" did not always cover the same amount of territory throughout its history, nor was "Germany" always a single, unified nation with a single sovereign ruler. I will attempt to super-condense the historical facts into a nutshell for you, and you can research it further if you are so inclined. For a long part of "Germany's" history, it was it was made up of hundreds of individually sovereign states, each with its own particular ruler (kings, princes, grand dukes, margraves, etc.) These were not united into a single nation until the formation of the German Empire, a semi-constitutional monarchy which came into existence (and along with it the "Emperor of Germany") on 18 January 1871, when the existing king of the German state of Prussia, King Wilhelm I, was proclaimed German Emperor ("Kaiser" in German.) (He and those who followed him on the imperial throne remained King of Prussia while also being Emperor of Germany.) There were only three Emperors of Germany: Wilhelm I (who died in March, 1888), Wilhelm's son Friedrich III (who was ill will terminal cancer and died only 3 months after his accession in June 1888) and Friedrich III's son, Wilhelm II (who was Emperor of Germany from 15 June 1888 until 9 November 1918.) Your problem is that the naturalization or other documents you have which tell you the place of origin for your grandfathers apparently do NOT specify their exact villages, towns or cities of origin WITHIN the overall German Empire or even within the state of Baden or Wuerttemberg or Hohenzollern or wherever else they may have been from. Just knowing that their sovereign was the Emperor of Germany (regardless of which one was reigning at the time) unfortunately does not sufficiently pinpoint your ancestors' specific places of origin. Even knowing that they may have been subjects of say, the King of Wuerttemberg is not going to be too helpful. (Wuerttemberg was a kingdom at the same time there was a German Empire in existence, and again, that still doesn't tell you where in either the kingdom or the empire your ancestors came from---darn it all!) If that is the only documentation you have for those persons, you still do not yet have something which will provide a sufficient clue to their roots in "Germany." Not knowing what other records on them you may have (or not), or what other types of research you may have done, it is difficult to make a reasonable suggestion as to how to might proceed from here. Can you tell us anything else that might be pertinent to these men? Hope we can help you if we have more details, if you have any to share. Best wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

Sheri, I am in the same boat.Except on my grandfathers it says he had to renounce William 11. I thought that would help. But with the history of Germany it wasn't much help. Where do we go from there? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Martin" <elm121147@verizon.net> To: <mscarlah@earthlink.net>; <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find (orNon-Existent) :-) >I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of my > maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They > both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that > Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other > information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any further > suggestions? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carla Heller" <mscarlah@earthlink.net> > To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find > (orNon-Existent) :-) > > >> Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, >> >> For those who are seeking emigration records or indexes for German >> ancestors >> and those who might be coming up empty-handed in the process, here are a >> few >> observations that might at least be helpful to know. :-) >> >> It is important to keep in mind that emigration (the leaving of one's >> country of origin to settle in another) was not always motivated by >> positive >> circumstances. *While it was the usual procedure* to seek official >> permission from the local authorities before leaving, many, many >> emigrants >> did NOT. For many of them, emigration was the only means to avoid >> obligatory >> military service, economic hardship, serious diseases, the ravages of >> war, >> revolution, and other compelling situations. Under certain kinds of >> circumstances, people may have decided not to *publicize* their intention >> to >> leave by applying for formal permission beforehand, and left without it. >> A >> considerable number of people NEVER obtained this permission, but >> eventuallyemigrated nonetheless. >> >> One of our primary concerns as family researchers is to understand that >> some >> of the records or other documents we may look for might *not have ever >> been >> created.* Regardless of one's specific reasons for leaving, if an >> emigrant >> did NOT formally apply for *permission* to leave, no official record >> would >> have been created concerning their emigration, and therefore their names >> and >> other information would NOT likely be found in the emigration indexes. >> This >> does not necessarily mean you won't find information about their travel >> in >> a >> ships' *passenger departure or arrival lists,* which is sometimes a good >> alternative if you can't locate emigration permits for them. >> >> Remember--EMIGRATION records and ships' PASSENGER LISTS are **NOT** the >> same >> things! >> >> They were created for different reasons, in separate places, and at >> different times in the course of a person's emigration and travel. (See >> the >> end of this message for some links to information about passenger list >> research.) >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------------- >> >> As to the reasons for European emigration, they were many, and in effect >> over a long period in the 19th century. As has been mentioned on this >> list >> in the past, one factor that led to German emigration was the the >> unstable >> political situation in the German states in 1848, following the failed >> revolutions. Many individuals indeed fled Europe during this time, but >> their departure in considerable numbers was not limited to that immediate >> period, nor to that cause. Don't forget that there were various notable >> wars in the German states over time, and many people emigrated to avoid >> military service, or the hardships imposed by war. >> >> Increases in taxation created economic hardship for many people, and >> affordable land became scarce with the ever-growing population. >> Increasing >> industrialization negatively affected a number of trades, and drove many >> to >> the overcrowded cities in search of employment. As available employment >> progressively declined, many people chose to emigrate to avoid economic >> problems. Others were attracted to emigrate to the US or other countries >> because they already had someone there who was benefitting from better >> employment opportunities or plentiful land to encourage them. Added to >> unstable European political climates or the threat or reality of war, >> these >> and other factors no doubt made the prospect of life in the USA and >> elsewhere quite promising at the time. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> For detailed practical help on researching *ships' passenger lists* (and >> also US Naturalization documents), see Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' >> Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step >> advice]: >> >> http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html >> >> For more general info on what you might expect to find in *emigration >> records* (if you can secure them), you might like to visit my Web page on >> the subject, Research Access/Background for the Baden Emigration Index: >> >> http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/ >> >> Hope this helps! :-) >> >> Warmest wishes, >> >> Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net >> List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List >> ==================================================== >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >