My whole family is from Nussbaum. The Hiller name is listed abt 15 times in my Nussbaum OSB if you need me to look someone up. Let me know! Nancy -------------- Original message -------------- From: darylannsdesk@aol.com > > I have been in touch with one person with Hiller ancestors from Nussbaum. Are > there any other researchers out there with a Nussbaum and/or Pforzheim > connection? Thanks. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Looking for Johann Georg Hetterich born 1846 (?? Eúabeûren a/t Mûnsingen??) died Ulm A/D , 4 Nov 1932 and His first wife should be Josephine Alletag born 1856 ?? died abt 1878 soon after the birth of Wilhelmina 21 Apr 1878 **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

Carlisle, you wrote: ". . . For 18 Euros they sent us a copy of the record." Me: How did you get the funds to them? Thanks, Paul

My Gr Grandfather Fridolin Biesele ( took his mother's maiden name Schäuble upon immigrating to USA in 1906) was born 28 Mar 1883 Zell in Wiesental, Lörrach. where might I find his military records? Thanks DAN **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

I will unsubscribe tomorrow from the list for 2 weeks. I am going to Germany!!!! Mary June ************** Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

I just want to say how much I appreciate the attention to this list and the active participation provided by Carla Heller. I receive other (German) list digests almost daily, and no one can hold a candle to Carla's willingness to keep the list on track and to help us in our never-ending research. Several months can go by without hearing word one from other list administrators. In the last week or so, I've been utterly amazed at how much information has come from Carla. Thank you for caring enough to share your knowledge with the rest of us, Carla! Karen Brady Researching DRITTENBACH/TRITENBACH, ARNOLD, BOHN, SCHUST, KRAUS from Wurttemberg (Croffelbach, Eltershofen, Sulzdorf)

I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. Not would be, but could be. At 04:31 PM 7/18/2008, you wrote: >From: "Lester C Griel III" <lcg112@gmail.com> >Subject: Re: [BW] Research question - AULT >To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> > >Fred, >I hadn't heard about the Christian/rufname reversal before. So could it be >possible that someone who called himself Jacob Frederick here in the states >would be Frederick Jacob in Germany? >Lester > >From: baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Fred H Held >Sent: Friday, 18 July, 2008 17:23 >To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com; Carlisle Danzeisen's >Subject: Re: [BW] Research question - AULT > >In the German culture they did not have first and middle names as we >know them, but rather Christian and rufname. They were known in their >families by their rufname. It was not uncommon to have several >children in the family to have the same Christian name. >You will find that the Christian name was not always used even in >German records. > >After emigrating many chose to reverse their Christian-rufnames to >become first-middle names. Both my GGgrandfather and Ggrandfather >reversed their names. > >At 11:59 AM 7/18/2008, you wrote: > >From: "Carlisle Danzeisen's" <1833danzeisen@embarqmail.com> > >Subject: Re: [BW] Research question - AULT > >To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> > >... > >- You may want to see if you can locate him on a manifest using his middle > >name rather than first (which we did finally find our ancestor under); or > >check using his initials. > >... ____________________________________________________________ Click for online loan, fast & no lender fee, approval today http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4tyufwvsZXXCkJToJ4zqqQT7BEDVhZ2LmDnzXBTtTJE1kjw4/

Fred, I hadn't heard about the Christian/rufname reversal before. So could it be possible that someone who called himself Jacob Frederick here in the states would be Frederick Jacob in Germany? Lester Lester C Griel III MS, NP-C Firefighter, Alpha Fire Company: online at www.alphafire.com Secretary, The Firemans Relief Association of State College, Pennsylvania Genealogist: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=lgriel3 Researching the Griel, Hill, Eastep, Kinsey, Donald, Franke, Espenshade and Showalter surnames. 814-883-6552 Reply to: lgriel@comcast.net "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." – Theodore Seuss Giesel Security is our nearness to God, not our distance from danger. -Kenneth R. Hendre "Nec quicquam insipiente fortunato intolerabilius fieri potest." -Marcus Tullius Cicero ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._    (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.`)     (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'         _..`--'_..-_/  /--'_.' ,'               (il),-''  (li),'  ((!.-'   We are........ Penn State! -----Original Message----- From: baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Fred H Held Sent: Friday, 18 July, 2008 17:23 To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com; Carlisle Danzeisen's Subject: Re: [BW] Research question - AULT In the German culture they did not have first and middle names as we know them, but rather Christian and rufname. They were known in their families by their rufname. It was not uncommon to have several children in the family to have the same Christian name. You will find that the Christian name was not always used even in German records. After emigrating many chose to reverse their Christian-rufnames to become first-middle names. Both my GGgrandfather and Ggrandfather reversed their names. At 11:59 AM 7/18/2008, you wrote: >From: "Carlisle Danzeisen's" <1833danzeisen@embarqmail.com> >Subject: Re: [BW] Research question - AULT >To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> >... >- You may want to see if you can locate him on a manifest using his middle >name rather than first (which we did finally find our ancestor under); or >check using his initials. >... ____________________________________________________________ Stop foreclosure. Click here to stay in your home and rebuild credit. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4tZwGvoCCi4oaaMVq7YcaQ9 ipPVzew5UD0Kz9EAhNsZyG8Ko/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In the German culture they did not have first and middle names as we know them, but rather Christian and rufname. They were known in their families by their rufname. It was not uncommon to have several children in the family to have the same Christian name. You will find that the Christian name was not always used even in German records. After emigrating many chose to reverse their Christian-rufnames to become first-middle names. Both my GGgrandfather and Ggrandfather reversed their names. At 11:59 AM 7/18/2008, you wrote: >From: "Carlisle Danzeisen's" <1833danzeisen@embarqmail.com> >Subject: Re: [BW] Research question - AULT >To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> >... >- You may want to see if you can locate him on a manifest using his middle >name rather than first (which we did finally find our ancestor under); or >check using his initials. >... ____________________________________________________________ Stop foreclosure. Click here to stay in your home and rebuild credit. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4tZwGvoCCi4oaaMVq7YcaQ9ipPVzew5UD0Kz9EAhNsZyG8Ko/

To B-W List. The following question was asked off list but the answer will be of interest to some of the newer list members. For privacy purposes, I've moved the requester's name to Bcc. +++++++++++++++++++ List member wrote: Hello! the church records you mentioned, . . . are they in German? Short answer: The parish books are mostly handwritten in German with the occasional Latin/French word tossed in. Some are in Latin, I've been told. Comment: Warning, strong personal bias included. This is the point where the sheep go into the pen (give up) and the mountain goats start climbing. Many hobbyists stop at the Atlantic even when they know names, event dates, and town/village of their ancestors. They may go so far as to register their interest on this list, which is legitimate and a good idea in all cases as a beginning. But, they hope someone else has done or will do the German research and pass the information back to them. In some cases that works. But, in most cases, it's press on yourself, or wait a long time for another to do it for you. If this is you, make sure one of your children or grandchildren takes German, loves history and puzzles (more fun than Sudoku, IMHO), can probe any hidy hole in the internet, and will promise to take over for you someday. Or make sure he/she is motivated because skill is not as important as determination; witness all the non-German speaking computer klutzes and history/geography clueless on this list who do great research (and along the way learn enough history, geography, and German as well as become denizens of cyberspace genealogia--my new word for the day). The following is for the mountain climbers. Long answer: The parish records are a set of books--church books or Kirchenbuecher (singular = Kirchenbuch)--that have been kept by the parish ministers/scribes. Most parish books date back to the late 17th century or whenever the parish came into being if it was later. Some push back as much as a century earlier, especially over the boarder (south) in Switzerland. You will find the records divided by christenings, marriages, and deaths. Often there are also confirmations and other trivia such as the succession of priests/pastors and even the occasional note on a major event in the parish's history. The books might include a family book--Familienbuch--from a certain point in time. The divisions are not neat, i.e. not this book for that category and another for a different category. One book may have christenings from 1747 to 1812, marriages from 1775 to 1890, deaths from 1729 to 1780, and confirmations from 1820 to 1890 . The microfilms are just photos of the same in the same mixed up order. Each event is a handwritten entry in its respective section. They are in German, Latin, and a mix of the two but mostly in German. Sometimes a Latin word will be given a German declension/ending and vice versa. The handwriting covers the gamut from hen scratching to John Hancock and the ink from completely vanished/blotted out to almost laser print quality. Occasionally a page will be partially missing. Very rarely, a whole book is missing because of fire or some other disaster. In the late 19th and in the 20th century, the pages were pre-printed with columns and standard headings. Before that, each priest/pastor/scribe used his own system all mixed in the same set of books. Columns for this or that data disappear and may even reappear with the next recorder. Some entries are barebones--names and dates--while others give some wonderful history and/or some flowery language such as ". . . after a wonderful afternoon sermon on the resurrection of our Lord, was buried in the churchyard." For the pages where the recording person liked to include large entries but not conclude with a separating line, it's sometimes difficult to tell where one entry stops and another begins. That said, it takes longer, but I'll wish for the long entries every time so I can learn more about the family/circumstances of the event. Depending on the period and region, various styles of handwriting were taught in the seminaries/schools and each recorder had his (her?) variation on the same which of course evolved with their age and was affected by their mood, physical state, attitude toward their task and the persons involved, etc. Just when you learn one recorder's hand, a new recorder starts to enter the information. The good news is that for the time frame you're looking at, mid 19th century, the style and quality of the writing and the ink should be relatively good. If you only want to glean the bare essentials it's not that hard because surnames of the key parties (bride and groom, for example) are often underlined, and dates are in a separate column or in a hanging indent to the entry, so you shouldn't have a big problem learning to do this. There are many websites with tutorials, lists of handwritten variations for each letter of the alphabet in the various styles/periods. Just Google "German handwriting". But some, like me want to transcribe and translate the entire entry which can provide clues for further research. An entry always includes sponsors/Godparents, and sometimes parents' professions, military rank, whether and where (town) the fathers are citizens, religious anomalies (is the groom a Reformed Protestant getting married in a Lutheran church?), deceased parents' names, etc. I would start with finding your entries using the barebones knowledge approach and then asking for help on this list with transcribing/translating the whole event entry. Transcription is usually trickier than translation. Many on the BW list, including me, will help with scanned entries that you have isolated. You cannot attach files for posts to a list but you can ask if someone will look at something via direct email or you can point listers to a site where you've posted the scan. Often more than one lister will quickly (we're in many time zones) give a rendition for all to consider and others will jump in if they see a possible mistake or want to add/clarify. If you search out the entries, do the scanning, and ask specific questions, you can legitimately ask for help on this list and it will be freely given. If, on the other hand, you would like someone to go through the books searching for entries in order to pick out siblings, give you some background based on material in the entries, or push the line back further, you'll need to hire someone. Listers can advise on this also. I can do this, in which case contact me off list. Doing the transcribing/translating is personally satisfying and starts to give you details that reveal the family history side of genealogy, but many hobbyists get along in most cases just gleaning names and dates from entries with help when they get stuck. There is a certain amount of interpretation that some listers are good at. For example, why during a decade period, do all of this particular non-aristocratic family's babies' Godparents have either "von" in front of their surnames or "his graciousness" (example) in front of their given names? Or what is the significance of this soldier being in the Leib regiment of the Duke? There have been a lot of good questions on the list lately about illegitimate children (terrible term for a child/person who had nothing to do with breaking any laws/mores) and some great information shared by listers. When you research on the international floor at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, there usually is a person at the information desk who can look at any entry and give a transcription and translation for you on the spot for free. This might also happen in your nearest Family History Center, but not likely because the bundle of skills and knowledge is rare. This list has members with those skills and collectively we cover a wide range of topics and therefore this list is the next best thing (and often equal to or better than) being in the FHL in SLC. OK, that's more than you wanted to know and more than I intended on writing. Next post, which films to rent (by private email) and how do you go about it. I've got an appt. to run to so I'll post that later.

I have been in touch with one person with Hiller ancestors from Nussbaum. Are there any other researchers out there with a Nussbaum and/or Pforzheim connection? Thanks.

I'm sure I've mentioned how fortunate I am that my family has been relatively EASY to back track into Germany. BUT BEFORE this, there was the back track paper trail of census records that led us to the emigration records and manifests. In spite of one census records saying my ancestor was from Austria and another year from Bavaria and yet another year Wurttemberg. My cousin had written to the LDS center in Utah (way before the internet genealogy explosion) and they found the lone manifest he failed to find because it was kept in the wrong place had been MIS~FILED, and not where it should have been with the other passenger records! It was a needle in a haystack finding for our family, which proved to be the biggest brick wall smasher in the quest. Not only that, it was a record that had been lost FOR YEARS and no one had known about this lonely little ship list. If anyone is looking for the USS Brig CHIPOLA that left June1837 and arrived in Pennsylvania in July 1837 I have that record and will be happy to share it. Roberta Baezner Chesley

Hello Lister's: I'm looking for any individual that is familiar with the Backnang region to the north-east towards Schwäbisch Hall. Liebesbach, Groß Erlach, Siebersbach and Sulzbach. Dan

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Members, If you wish to UNSUBSCRIBE from the list for any reason, PLEASE *DO NOT* SEND YOUR REQUEST TO THE MAILING LIST *MESSAGE-POSTING* ADDRESS. Doing so will not result in getting unsubscribed; instead, your unsubscribe request will simply post to the list, where all subscribers will see it. Instead, to unsubscribe QUICKLY & EASILY, please visit our administrative Web page at: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BADEN-WURTTEMBERG.html and follow the simple prompts to unsubscribe. If you experience any *problem* in unsubscribing using this method, please contact me at the email address shown below in my signature, including details of the difficulty you are having. ============================================================================ To send a genealogy MESSAGE intended for *posting on the mailing list,* (where the message will be seen by everyone subscribed), the correct address is ALWAYS: BADEN-WURTTEMBERG@rootsweb.com THANK YOU VERY MUCH ! Warmest wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List Friends, We're sure everyone wants to publicize his/her genealogical research Interests as widely as possible to reach others who may be researching the same lines or localities. However, many of your fellow 1,100-plus Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing list members (and later, members of the public who check the list's archives on the RootsWeb site) will not take the time to open and read your messages, unless something in the SUBJECT TITLE catches their attention. If the subject title is vague, undescriptive, or is left blank, they may ignore and delete your message *unread.* Keep in mind also that *overly-GENERAL* message titles like, "Looking for ancestors," or "Great-grandfather from Wuerttemberg" just don't tell other people very much about your research interests or message content. :-) We realize that many people, especially those just beginning family research, *may NOT yet have* the critical place of origin information noted above---but some people *do,* and simply forget to include that in a genealogy query. Please give us some SPECIFIC detail in your message titles so that any others researching the same names, localities or families can quickly recognize a mutual interest---and be able to help *you.* To avoid the possibility of having others delete your list messages without even reading them, please try to identify (briefly) the *main focus* of your message in the subject title. If asking a question, summarize it in the message title (e.g., "Where is Town [fill in the name]?" or "What's the difference between Baden and Baden-Baden?") If you are posting a query or other message about an ancestor, please include at least the person's SURNAME in the subject title, such as "HAGNER in Wuerttemberg." It is preferable to type the surname all in upper case letters to help it stand out. MOST IMPORTANTLY---***IF*** YOU KNOW the particular ancestral place of origin (i.e., the village, town, or city WITHIN Baden, Wuerttemberg or Hohenzollern), please include that as well, such as "HAGNER, Neckargartach, Wuerttemberg." At least *approximate* the time frame (event date, year range, century, etc.) in which your ancestor lived (e.g. "HAGNER, 1840's, Neckargartach, Wuerttemberg"), since not all family seekers are researching the same time periods or generations. Always wishing you the best research success, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List Friends, Just as a note of possible interest to many, don't forget that ROOTSWEB (our list sponsor) also sponsors and operates MANY, MANY other genealogy-related mailing lists---all FREE---that may be helpful to you in obtaining the maximum possible coverage for your family research interests. Be aware that the Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List is *NOT the only German-genealogy list available.* Neither is the Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List the BEST one for everyone's research interests---UNLESS, of course, there is reason to believe that someone's ancestors' origins are specifically centered in the former German states of Baden, Wuerttemberg, or Hohenzollern. J If your ancestors are believed or known to be from some other area of Germany or elsewhere in Europe, our list is not likely to be of optimum assistance and value to you. As of this writing, there are presently 31,372 RootsWeb mailing lists. They focus on a myriad of topics, including research in particular countries, foreign areas, American states, on specific individual surnames or ethnic groups, immigration, religion, genealogy software and computing, translations and word meanings, military, heraldry, medical genealogy, royalty and nobility, obituaries, occupations, prisons---you name it, and there is probably a ROOTSWEB list that features it! Also available are lists which focus on various research techniques and advice from many knowledgeable contributors. Remember that anyone may subscribe to and participate on *as many individual mailing lists at one time* as she or he may wish. There is no limit, and all such lists are FREE to users. You can subscribe and unsubscribe (and re-subscribe) to or from any list whenever you like, as often as you like. To access the index of current RootsWeb lists which are available, visit the Web page at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/index.html Hope this is helpful! Wishing you the best family research outcomes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California, USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, Just as a possible note of interest, the formerly INDEPENDENT states of Baden, Wuerttemberg and Hohenzollern were "combined" in 1952 to form modern Baden-Wuerttemberg. Thus, the entity "Baden-Wuerttemberg" has existed only for the past 56 years. Prior to that time, "Baden-Wuerttemberg," per se, did not yet exist. In the eras of most of our ancestors, the states of Baden, Wuerttemberg and Hohenzollern were *separate.* This is important to know because RECORDS of genealogical interest from earlier centuries that were created in formerly independent states are usually organized and archived SEPARATELY from one another, rather than being amassed together in a single category like "Baden-Wuerttemberg." Family seekers who have the perspective that their ancestors came from the "Baden-Wuerttemberg area" will need to do further (probably USA-based) research first to determine whether those ancestors actually originated in Baden OR Wuerttemberg OR Hohenzollern (or somewhere else entirely)---at least if those family seekers want to achieve the best research success possible. :-) Otherwise, trying to forge ahead with research this way is comparable to trying to track down your roots associated with persons whom you know only to be from "the US Southern states" or the American southwest," or "New England." All of those designations point to particular AREAS, yes---but each covers a rather significant amount of actual territory. One would obviously need to pinpoint an ancestor's origins more precisely to hope to have much success in tracking him or her down. ========================================================= In addition, you may want to note that "Baden-Baden" is actually the name of a *town* WITHIN the state of Baden. The state and the town are not one and the same, and this fact will make a significant difference in someone's research of ancestors said to be from Baden-Baden versus Baden. Those who would like details explaining "Which Baden is Which?" (including information on Baden-Baden) may wish to visit my Web page of the same name at: http://home.earthlink.net/~mscarlah/ For general information (in English) about today's town of Baden-Baden, see the Web page http://www.baden-baden.de/en/index.html Best wishes to all, Carla Heller, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List =========================================================

Elizabeth, We also ran into a similar problem when trying to determine where my husbands' 2nd-great-grandfather was born. It actually took us over four intense years of looking to find the answer. Maybe knowing how we over came this issue may help you. If you have not already - - Have you located a death recording that might indicate where your AULT is from. - You may want to see if you can locate him on a manifest using his middle name rather than first (which we did finally find our ancestor under); or check using his initials. - However, that did not help since his birth location was not listed on the manifest, so we than attained a copy of his Nationalization File. His birth town was also not listed there but it did help us narrow the area within Germany to Baden; - For years we were unable to locate a death notice for him. With the help of the library staff of the town where he died (which in our case was Philadelphia) they located the death notice, which greatly helped as the death notice indicated a town that he was from - but of course the town name was miss spelt and it could not be determined what the town actually was. We posted the information we know on message boards and mailing lists and received some great assistance on narrowing what the town name may have been, but nothing for sure. Some one suggested that we contact the Badisches Generallandesarchiv located in Karlsruhe with the information we knew. By then we knew a lot more as we also had his date of birth, death notice and a miss spelt town name. In less than a month we heard back from them with the answer! They told us where he was born and who his parents were. For 18 Euros they sent us a copy of the record. Hopefully our experience helps you break down your stone wall. -----Original Message----- From: baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Cunningham Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:17 AM To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BW] Research question I cannot get my great-grandfather back over the ocean. He came here between 1848 and 1852 with a wife and children, but I cannot find a manifest. He moved a lot, and so did his son, my grandfather (at least 15 addresses in 20 years, with children born in 4 different towns besides Philadelphia). We have no documents or artifacts or anything from him. The last name is so common, Ault, and happens in so many different languages, that I think I will never have a clue where he came from. (He did always say he was German.) The situation is sort of like family going out West and never being heard from again. Elizabeth C Marleen Van Horne wrote: > German genealogy being what it is, you have to know where your ancestor > was born and lived before immigrating to North America, in order to do > any research there. If you do not have that information, no paid > researcher can find them for you. > > . . . > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, For those who are seeking emigration records or indexes for German ancestors and those who might be coming up empty-handed in the process, here are a few observations that might at least be helpful to know. It is important to keep in mind that emigration (the leaving of one's country to settle in another) was not always motivated by positive circumstances. *While it was the usual procedure* to seek official permission from the local authorities before leaving, many, many emigrants did NOT. For many of them, emigration was the only means to avoid obligatory military service, economic hardship, serious diseases, the ravages of war, revolution, and other compelling situations. Under certain kinds of circumstances, people may have decided not to *publicize* their intention to leave by applying for formal permission beforehand, and left without it. A considerable number of people NEVER obtained this permission, but eventually emigrated nonetheless. One of our primary concerns as family researchers is to understand that some of the records or other documents we may look for might *not have ever been created.* Regardless of one's specific reasons for leaving, if an emigrant did NOT formally apply for *permission* to leave, no official record would have been created concerning their emigration, and therefore their names and other information would NOT likely be found in the emigration indexes. This does not necessarily mean you won't find information about their travel in a ships' *passenger departure or arrival lists,* which is sometimes a good alternative if you can't locate emigration permits for them. Remember--EMIGRATION records and PASSENGER LISTS are NOT the same things. They were created for different reasons, in separate places, and at different times in the course of a person's emigration and travel. (See the end of this message for some links to information about passenger list research.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- As to the reasons for European emigration, they were many, and in effect over a long period in the 19th century. As has been mentioned on this list in the past, one factor that led to German emigration was the the unstable political situation in the German states in 1848, following the failed revolutions. Many individuals indeed fled Europe during this time, but their departure in considerable numbers was not limited to that immediate period, nor to that cause. Don't forget that there were various notable wars in the German states over time, and many people emigrated to avoid military service, or the hardships imposed by war. Increases in taxation created economic hardship for many people, and affordable land became scarce with the ever-growing population. Increasing industrialization negatively affected a number of trades, and drove many to the overcrowded cities in search of employment. As available employment progressively declined, many people chose to emigrate to avoid economic problems. Others were attracted to emigrate to the US or other countries because they already had someone there who was benefitting from better employment opportunities or plentiful land to encourage them. Added to unstable European political climates or the threat or reality of war, these and other factors no doubt made the prospect of life in the USA and elsewhere quite promising at the time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For detailed practical help on researching *ships' passenger lists* (and also US Naturalization documents), see Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step advice]: http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html For more general info on what you might expect to find in *emigration records* (if you can secure them), you might like to visit my Web page on the subject, Research Access/Background for the Baden Emigration Index: http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/ Hope this helps! :-) Warmest wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List ====================================================

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, In recent posts, several list members have requested "any information on Surname X." Little (or no) other details about the families or individuals connected with the surname in question were supplied. In the interest of helping people achieve the best possible ancestral research success --- and helping OTHERS on the list help *you* in the most effective way they might --- here are some guidelines to keep in mind when you are researching your Germanic roots and you have only (or mainly) just a surname as your research focus. Most of us who bear Germanic surnames face significant research challenges because the majority of them are so *common and widespread.* (My own surname, HELLER, is good example.) You will often discover that your particular surname is equivalent to the Germanic "Smith or Jones"---or very close to it, with hundreds of thousands of bearers in Europe and elsewhere. Even if yours are not surnames as common as say, Schmidt or Müller or Walter or Bauer, etc., most German surnames are of little value *all by themselves* as clues in pinpointing a ***PARTICULAR*** family by those names with whom you may be affiliated. If the main item of information you focus on is the surname, you are likely to have a never-ending search for the proverbial needle in a haystack. Remember that people who bear the same surname are *NOT ALL RELATED* or genealogically connected in some way, even if they live[d] in the same town. You will find, in fact, that a majority of people who bear your surname of interest have *nothing to do* with your particular family of that name. To be able to distinguish your particular ancestors from unrelated/unaffiliated persons or families who simply share the same names, you must *first* acquire some *supporting information* (usually obtained from US or other NON-German sources), such as vital records, church records, naturalization documents, passenger lists, censuses, family papers, the knowledge of older relatives, etc.) which helps in *confirming* their identity. The type of confirming details you are seeking include such things as the name of the ancestor's village, town or city of birth, (which is the KEY to successful overseas research); her/his parents' names (especially a mother's maiden name), spouse's or children's names (especially the maiden name of a wife), the ancestor's religious affiliation (most often Catholic or Lutheran), probable occupation (in Germany or later in the place of settlement), and the like. Regrettably, it is usually very difficult for someone to be able to help a person pinpoint his or her ancestors knowing ONLY the surname, or just the surname and a *GENERAL AREA* of origin, such as Baden, Hohenzollern or Wuerttemberg. It is not much more helpful to know a given time frame (e.g., "born somewhere in Wuerttemberg in about 1835.") Ideally, for anyone to help you, you need to tell us, for example, WHERE SPECIFICALLY in Baden, Württemberg, or Hohenzollern (the formerly separate German 'states' that make up Baden-Württemberg) your ancestors are thought to be from. Your fellow listers need to know to help you narrow down your search, because most German records are *NOT* centrally archived in one place (such as a state or regional capital, as we often find vital records in the US), and are not often organized alphabetically according to surname, but by LOCALITY. Even if you seek them in a particular archive, you would need to know WHICH village or town or city the ancestor was from in order for the archivists to locate the information you want. For those just getting their feet wet in overseas research, I'd recommend the following outstanding Web sites (all of which are FREE) to help you get started in the right direction. :-) ========================================================== 1) soc.genealogy.german Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.genealogienetz.de/faqs/sgg.html#starters This helpful site answers the following often-asked questions in detail, among many others: How can I start researching my German or German-American family? Can you help me with surname ________________? Where can I register/find my surnames? Where is the town/village ___________________? How can I find out what village my ancestor came from? How about German cemeteries? What does my German surname mean? Is my family from a town with a name like their surname? How do I write to a German Standesamt, parish, or archive? - ----------------------------------------- 2) RootsWeb's Guide "On the Trail of Germanic Ancestors" http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/lesson26.htm 3) RootsWeb's Guide "Tracing Your Immigrant Ancestors" http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/lesson15.htm 4) Linda Herrick's "Finding Where Your Ancestors Came From in Germany" http://origins.safeshopper.com/132/cat132.htm?978 5) LDS Family History Library Ancestor Search [look up your ancestors' names (free) in the immense collection of extracted data gathered by the LDS Library] http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp 6) Cyndi Howell's amazing database of genealogy links, Cyndi's List (for Germany): http://www.CyndisList.com/germany.htm 7) Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step advice] http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html 8) Regional Research in German-Speaking Countries http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/regio.htm 9) Resources for German Genealogy on the Internet http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/ 10) Basic Research Outline for German Genealogy http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/outline.html ================================================== Genealogical "detective work" of this kind is the only way to insure that the people you are researching have any true genealogical or familial connection to YOU. No one wants to discover (perhaps years down the line) that they've been researching the WRONG family (the great genealogical nightmare!). Why not give at least some of these helpful tools a try in advancing your German family search---you may be surprised how well you do! :-) With warmest wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List