I am searching for a Mathias Schlageter. This is what I know: Birth place has been given as Baden, no specific town. Born in 1825 according to calculations from age at time of death. His Death Certificate states he had been in US for 52 years at time of death, making immigration year 1847. age at death- 74 yrs 4 mos. In 1849, there is a Mathias Schlageter age 27 from Baden, who arrived in New Orleans aboard the CHARLEMAGNE, May 18, 1849. He was apparently traveling alone. He has been accounted for from 1860 where is was living in NY, with wife Fredericka and, children, Charles - age 6, Emma age 4 and Caroline age 2. His name is listed as Mather SLAGER. States he and wife were both born in Germany. He is a laborer. 1869-1870, he is in the NY City Directory as a butcher until his death and burial in 1899. There is no other information on any documents as to where in Baden he came from. According to the cemetery records there was a child Rosina Schlageter, born July 1866, d 1867. I am assuming it was Mathias & Fredericka's daughter. Maybe Mathias had a sister Rosina. It is possible that Mathias is not his first name. In the 1881-1890 NY City Directories he is still listed as a butcher. He died August 28, 1899 in New York City. Father’s name listed as ANTHONY. Buried in Lutheran Cemetery. He married Fredericka Lichtenberger in New York. The following is information from her emigration papers from Emigration document, Baden Archives, Emigration File- Friederike Lichtenberger, Grüewettersbach, GLA 348 No.1109. In 1851, her application for Emigration filed May 20 1851,Left her home town of Grunwettersbach as a married woman with husband Schlageter. Johann Friedrich Herrmann of Grüewettersbach was authorized person for Friederika Lichtenberger. He applied for her at the "Grossherzogl. Oberamt" to leave the Baden nationality. This paper states that Friederika travelled to America in spring 1851 as an unmarried person, age 20, and that she married to Mathias Schlageter in New York. Friederika Lichtenberger gets permission to emigrate (to America) and to take her personal estate with her". She emigrated in 1851 and got permission to do this in 1854. Any assistance in finding information on the family of Mathias Schlageter will be helpful. Based on Fredericka's emigration information, it is possible that he also was from Grüewettersbach. Thank you. Grunwettersbach J. Eggers Msgene@mac.com

I am interested to anyone in the St. Louis area to exchange geneaology information in the surname Leiber from baden Wurttemberg area in the 1800s. Thanks in advance...........Burt Dodson

Ditto!! On Aug 8, 2008, at 8:53 PM, Betsy/Bob Mowry wrote: > Paul: I am an avid evesdropper on this website and have learned so > much > from you. I really appreciate your knowledge and especially your wit. > Thanks for all you do. > > Betsy in Michigan > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. > It has removed 551 spam emails to date. > Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BADEN- > WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Walter Where did you find the guild information? Thanks Chuck **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Thanks Ralph My problem was the space after the 1st line. Thanks Chuck The pages are accessible. The problem is that your message has been formatted so that the link has been wrapped around after however many characters you have the page formatted to. Anyway if you drag the cursor, as in cut and paste, over the entire highlighted link as well as the remaining text directly below it and then paste this information into your browsers address box, you will then be brought to the proper address. Ralph **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Ralph, Thanks for hopping in with the split link explanation before I had a chance to check the list again. When I sent them, they were all on one line; got mangled somewhere between me and the list. Walter On Aug 8, 2008, at 1:14 PM, baden-wurttemberg-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Chuck, > > The pages are accessible. The problem is that your message has been > formatted so that the link has been wrapped around after however many > characters you have the page formatted to. Anyway if you drag the > cursor, as > in cut and paste, over the entire highlighted link as well as the > remaining > text directly below it and then paste this information into your > browsers > address box, you will then be brought to the proper address. > > Ralph > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Cgs1996@aol.com> > To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:43 AM > Subject: Re: [BW] Occupation/Apprenticeship > > >> Walter >> >> The mentioned pages are not accessible. Is there another address? >> >> Thanks >> >> Chuck >> >> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~blenderman/ >> Blenderman/fg01/fg01_035.html >> >> and >> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~blenderman/ >> Blenderman/fg01/fg01_031.html ************************************************************************ ***** They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benj. Franklin, 1759 Walter G. Blenderman, N. Plainfield, NJ, USA **mailto:netchemist@earthlink.net***************************http:// www.blenderman.net**

Paul: I am an avid evesdropper on this website and have learned so much from you. I really appreciate your knowledge and especially your wit. Thanks for all you do. Betsy in Michigan -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 551 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Hi I sent this out 3 days ago but it has never appeared. Don't know if it made it out to the list or not. Tonia ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: TONIA NIELSEN <toniraye@dishmail.net> Date: Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 8:17 AM Subject: A PS to Carla's name change notes To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com Hi All I avidly read every note that is posted about name changes in our ancestors because of all the changes I found in my father's family surname. I found that their name actually started as Ehinger before it turned into Egner. Won't go into all the variations I found in the German records and corrections that other people had made to the original records. But, one thing I did find in the American records that Carla did not mention was a reversal of his name. My ancestor's name was reversed on his naturalization records. I almost passed him up. The name on the declaration of intent was listed as Ikenor Wendall. His name in Baden was Wendelin Ehinger. Now before someone says NO--wrong man. Let me explain how I decided that he was the right man. Wendelin Ehinger was born in Stollhofen, Baden, in 1803. He married Magdalena Schue/Schuh. The page from the Familienbuch states they left for America in 1837. Wendelin Egner & Magdalena appear in the Indiana 1850 census. The information in the declaration of Intent stated that Ikenor was born in Stollhofen, Baden, in 1803; that he left Harve de Grace in June 1837, arrived in New Orleans and made his way to Dearborn County, Indiana. Just too many matching items to not be the same man. I can only think that he gave his last name first when the County clerk asked for his name. He could have said Ehinger, Wendel Ehinger and the clerk wrote what his Indiana ears heard. As Carla has said many times, please keep an open mind when you are looking at these old documents. Good luck with the hunt. Tonia

I can tell you exactly how serious it was to be perceived as pro-German and sympathetic to the Kaiser during WWI. I have the copy of an 1918 A.P.L. report of an investigation of my great-grandfather about an accusation made by a co-worker that he was pro-German and 'in the habit of voicing himself in a disloyal manner'. It's titled "Alleged Disloyalty and Seditious Utterances...European Neutrality Matter'. Apparently my grandfather had made statements like, 'The Kaiser is as strong as the rest of us.' Nothing came of it. All especially surprising because he was born in the U.S. (his German parents immigrated to the U.S. in 1854) and his son - my grandfather - was a Lt. in the U.S. Army. So it didn't take much.

L.C. You wrote: I am not familiar with ordering films from the FHC, is that what you mean when you say to order films? How do you order films from them? Me: Go to www.FamilySearch.org In the field under Find a Family History Center, enter your state then click Find. Pick the nearest FHC and visit during its published hours. Or call them during those hours. Sometimes they have regular hours on Sundays not announced to the public even though non-LDS members would be welcome during those times as well. Visit at your convenience and ask to "order" the film I suggested. It will cost $5.50 and it will arrive within 10 days to several months. They will notify you. You then have a month to look at the film at that FHC. You can renew for a month two times after which the film is on permanent loan and located in that FHC so you can look at it as often as you wish forever and longer. In fact, others may eventually ask you to do look ups in that film. You: I forgot to mention that Robert Winter was a basketmaker/basketweaver. Is that a typical occupation for this area or is it something that maybe only a few people did? Will knowing this help me identify if this family you found is the correct one? Me: Maybe someone on this list will know if basketweaving was a specialty of the Rheinmuensterians. In many parish book entries, men's professions are often mentioned so yes, it may help you nail down your guy. Reading old German handwriting, now that's another story. It takes some work but many of us on this list have learned to do it and so can you. Regards, Paul

L.C. You wrote: I am not familiar with ordering films from the FHC, is that what you mean when you say to order films? How do you order films from them? Me: Go to www.FamilySearch.org In the field under Find a Family History Center, enter your state then click Find. Pick the nearest FHC and visit during its published hours. Or call them during those hours. Sometimes they have regular hours on Sundays not announced to the public even though non-LDS members would be welcome during those times as well. Visit at your convenience and ask to "order" the film I suggested. It will cost $5.50 and it will arrive within 10 days to several months. They will notify you. You then have a month to look at the film at that FHC. You can renew for a month two times after which the film is on permanent loan and located in that FHC so you can look at it as often as you wish forever and longer. In fact, others may eventually ask you to do look ups in that film. You: I forgot to mention that Robert Winter was a basketmaker/basketweaver. Is that a typical occupation for this area or is it something that maybe only a few people did? Will knowing this help me identify if this family you found is the correct one? Me: Maybe someone on this list will know if basketweaving was a specialty of the Rheinmuensterians. In many parish book entries, men's professions are often mentioned so yes, it may help you nail down your guy. Reading old German handwriting, now that's another story. It takes some work but many of us on this list have learned to do it and so can you. Regards, Paul

Dear All, I am not familiar with ordering films from the FHC, is that what you mean when you say to order films? How do you order films from them? I forgot to mention that Robert Winter was a basketmaker/basketweaver. Is that a typical occupation for this area or is it something that maybe only a few people did? Will knowing this help me identify if this family you found is the correct one? I'd really like to identify this family to know if these are the right ones or not, but I just need a little help knowing how to do this. Please share with me how to do it. Thanks, LC >There are no filmed records for Rheinmuenster which is a little surprising because Muenster refers to a large church building. However, looking on the map, Rheinmuenster is almost on top of Schwarzach so I would start by looking at its films. It may well be that Schwarzach residents were the very people the Rheinmuenster church was built to serve. The film's contents look like they cover all the villages around Rheinmuenster viz. "The Parish register of Schwarzach and vicinity, Hildmannsfeld, Ulm, Greffern, Moos, Leiberstung, Unzhurst, Stollhofen and Vimbuch" >So, I would start with: Title Kirchenbuch, 1613-1889 Authors Katholische Kirche Schwarzach (A. Bühl) (Main Author) Taufen, Heiraten, Tote 1830-1889 FHL INTL Film 999043 >Look for the birth of Robert junior in 1856 and see the names of his parents. Mother's name might be listed as Creszentia, Louisa, Creszentia Louisa, or Louisa Creszentia. Then look for marriage of the couple and then birth of Creszentia BRUDER. You'll have to order a different film for Robert senior's birth/christenning. Robert senior will also have two given names so his name on the birth and marriage entries might be Josef Robert WINTER or Robert Josef WINTER or one or the other first given names alone. (Note Josef is only an example). >So, maybe this is your lucky day. Good luck for the future too, Paul +++++++++++++++++++ >From: L C <aeesni@yahoo.com> Reply-To: aeesni@yahoo.com, baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com To: BADEN-WURTTEMBERG@rootsweb.com Subject: [BW] Robert WINTER immigrated from Baden, Germany Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 09:57:50 -0700 (PDT) >I would like to find out more about my 3rd great grandfather, Robert WINTER b. 1826 in Germany. The census records all state he immigrated from Baden, Germany. He was married to a Louisa b. Bet. 1836 - 1837 (maiden name unknown) before 1857 as the first child was born by then. Their first child, also named Robert was b. 1857. All 3 immigrated to America and show up in Cook Co. Illinois for the 1860, 1870 and 1880 census. If anyone knows of what records I should search or knows about the family, please let me know what to do. I am quite good at researching in America, but overseas I dont know what I'm doing. Thanks for any help, LC

Summary: Think pronunciation, not American attempts at German orthography George, In your recent post to the Baden-Wurttemberg List, you wrote: . . .[request] any info on Alfred ORBACH who was born in Mannheim 1860-1870 era . . . Me: My suggestions may take you backwards a few steps, but keep an open mind (or read Freakonomics then read this) because you may get to where you need to only by paying attention. Mannheim is a big place and it's good to hold off awhile before you go looking for microfilms since the city and nearby dorfs will be quite a few films to go through. I started by seeing if Orbach is a valid German surname. It is. I came up with the variation of Ohrbach but Orbach is by far the most common. BUT, there are NO Orbach's or Ohrbachs living in the modern German province of Baden-Wuerttemberg where Mannheim is planted. Look it up yourself. Go to the useful Germany surname mapping website at http://christoph.stoepel.net/geogen/en/Default.aspx and enter Orbach then select the Research button. Look at the various maps/charts. Then try Ohrbach. See whattamean? Note the concentration of Orbach's (65 out of 147) in Oberbergischer county in the modern province of North Rhine-Westphalia. Note that most of the others are in counties contiguous. This is the modern distibution for Orbach and Ohrbach. It's based on phonebook entries. Not perfect but pretty interesting when you have a surname with some volume but not excessive numbers. So, I picked a large city in the area of the concentration--Koeln (oe = o with umlaut) which we Americanskies call Cologne. I went directly to ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp I wanted to see if there are any places near the city of Koeln (big city near where all the Orbach's sleep at night) with a name than could be interpreted (spelled) as Mannheim by some American official/enumerator. Here's what I did. In the ShtetlSeeker Town Search page I entered Mannheim (data you supplied to us) for town and Germany for country. I selected the radio button next to Selected City then selected Germany and then Koeln as the city. I clicked the Start the Search button and then looked at all the places that sound like Mannheim but that are close to Koeln (the fifth column). Double Bingo. Manheim is 15.6 miles and Monheim is only 10.8 miles distant from Koeln. Manheim is a phonetic dead=ringer for Mannheim and Monheim is close enough for me to image an American census taker thinking old Alfred said Mannheim when he really said Monheim. Manheim is sometimes refered to as Manheim bei Kerpen because it is grouped (since 1975) with the nearby city of Kerpen. Monheim is now refered to as Monheim am Rhein. I like this system of disambiguation. If we used such a system, we wouldn't have to wonder where Homer Simpson and his family really call home. (It's in Springfield next to Eugene, Oregon, IMHO BTW). So, I think your Alfred ORBACH may have, in fact, come from Monheim am Rhein or Manheim bei Kerpen, not Mannheim in the middle of our list's target area of Baden-Wuerttemberg. Want more reason to believe? Go to that other mega database (the German phonebook was the first database we looked at as the basis for the Germany surname mapping webpage) of German surnames)--The LDS Family History Library's FamilySearch.org. Do an advanced search on the surname Orbach in the country of Germany. Results: all or almost all Orbachs came from outside of Baden-Wuerttemberg. In fact, they almost all came from the area where people named Orbach live and watch TV today. When it states Prussia, note the next geographic data smaller than country and you'll see these are in western Germany, NOT traditional Prussian territory east of the Oder. Why? Because Prussia came into control of the Rhineland in the early 1800's. Yes, more reason to consider the area just northeast of Koeln as your homeland. I hope I haven't muddied the river (Mannheim and Monheim am Rhein are both on the same river after all) for you. If you think you'd like to pursue this way of thinking, I'll try to round up some film numbers and another geographical rootsweb list you can subscribe to while we cogitate on your needs here on the B-W. Enjoy da veekend. Paul

Folks If you read some of the newspaper articles from the period of World War One and the post-World War One era, you will find some really hateful almost propaganda like anti-German sentiment. Many either didn't admit they were German or adopted Switzerland as their home because Americans of that time would have known that Switzerland had 3 national languages including German, French and Italian and thus they would be insulated from the anti-German hate speech so frequently encountered. Russ ************** Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Wuerttemberg is very close to Switzerland. My grandmother, who was from just outside Stuttgart, spent time in a Swiss orphanage. (I have not yet found anything about the orphanage). And her first husband, who clearly was from Germany, was reported by one daughter on the census to have been from Switzerland. I am assuming she was confused. Being from Germany did not get to be a bad thing until about 1933. It was also not good during WW1. To make life more interesting, my grandfather and all his relatives, who came to this country in 1885, were named Fuehrer, and steadfastly refused to change it. My grandfather's complaint was "That man stole my name!" Mostly during both wars the relatives lost mailboxes, but did not have many other problems. Elizabeth C Kathleen March wrote: > Just out of curiosity, I thought I might ask the people who are knowledgeable why a person who has been listed as from Württemberg on several census firms (but Bavière on the ship passenger list) might at one point have a son say that his parents > were from Switzerland? > > Was it a bad thing to be from Germany in 1930 (the census which lists this)? The son was born in NYS about 3 years after parents' arrival in 1854, and I found that in 1866/67 the father went back to Germany for some reason (another mystery), so it > seems impossible that he would not know where they were from. > > Kathleen > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com writes: >He married in Syracuse a girl from Danzig and they had eleven kids. My dad >said they never spoke German around the kids. They were Americans. I find this extremely interesting and of course it is all too true. To be assimilated, one had to give up or deny one's roots and especially one's language. We have a bilingual family at this time and have had for 30 years. We would not be the same without the two languages (and another one or two thrown in occasionally). This all enriches our lives and as a person who did not inherit the German, Dutch or French from those who came before me in the family, but had to learn Spanish, etc. through pretty hard work, I can only say that I wish that "American = English" belief had not been so quickly believed by the immigrants. It is so easy to raise bilingual children and it is even good for the brain - like the Mozart effect. If anybody has any suggestions for reading on the Germans in the Rochester, NY area and how they maintained their cultural identity in the 19th century into perhaps early 20th, I'd be very interested. I only know there is at least one cemetery full of headstones in German. Just a little more on the language issue: I have an old photo of men and a boy standing around a sawmill that was in Penfield, NY. It was the "March & Somebody" mill. I suspect many of those in the photo spoke German or at one point had been native speakers, since the owner had come as a boy in 1854. The census records indicate that more than one of the sons married a first-generation woman whose parents were from Germany. I found that my first March line, the 37-year-old who brought his family, still signed his name with an ümlaut 12 years after his arrival and that the name for his passport did not match the butchered versions of his name in every census. They called him Charles Moerz; he called himself (and signed his application for the passport) Karl Mörz. When I found him returning through Hamburg in Feb. 1867 he was no longer German but 'American'. Wonder if he considered himself that? Maybe I am just cranky at not being able to get at more records to see where these people came from and so piece together or visit the European part of their lives. And not even being able to get the original version of another, perhaps Prussian, line has not helped. Seems like there were a lot of illiterate people running around in the 19th century, and not all were the immigrants arriving in the US... or if not illiterate, they were definitely monolingual. Kathleen Kathleen March Professor of Spanish Department of Modern Languages & Classics 201 Little Hall University of Maine Orono, ME 04469 207-581-2088

Hello All, I am new to this site and trying to pull together family history on my gg grandfather Leonhard Glassbrenner, he also used the name Leonard Glassbrenner. He was born September 13, 1860 in the Baden-Wurttemberg region. One of my cousin mentioned he spoke of family living in Mannheim, Germany. He immigrated in 1888 and became naturalized in 1907. He married my gg Grandmother, Katherina Karoline Rath born April 26, 1867 in Koningsbronn, Germany (I do have information on the Rath side of the family.) They married sometime between 1888 and 1892, not sure where?? They first settled in Wabasha, Mn, then moved to Eau Claire, WI in 1893 and lived there until his death in 1930. Any thoughts here??? Thanks for your help.... Betty

Just out of curiosity, I thought I might ask the people who are knowledgeable why a person who has been listed as from Württemberg on several census firms (but Bavière on the ship passenger list) might at one point have a son say that his parents were from Switzerland? Was it a bad thing to be from Germany in 1930 (the census which lists this)? The son was born in NYS about 3 years after parents' arrival in 1854, and I found that in 1866/67 the father went back to Germany for some reason (another mystery), so it seems impossible that he would not know where they were from. Kathleen

Thanks to all of you who responded to my recent request about ORBACH . I deserved all the comments & will now put on my Calmness Cap & coast a while. George George D Craig Former RAOGK Volunteer Beaver County , PA

In my opinion it was due to your suggestion that they would rather not have it known that they were from what was known as Germany in 1930. Case in point. My grandfather came from Wuerttemburg in 1885 and settled in, (and was naturalized in) Onondaga County, New York. I have his ships passenger info, and have tracked his family back a hundred plus years in the small village of Markelsheim near Bad Mergentheim. He was 21 years old when he came. He married in Syracuse a girl from Danzig and they had eleven kids. My dad said they never spoke German around the kids. They were Americans. When I collected gramps final little batch of personal items from my aunt, there was a pre-printed card in his wallet, issued in the 1930's by the Onondaga County Clerk's Office, and signed by the clerk, that said he was from Switzerland. He never was. I believe it was just a social stigma. I always wondered how he got the clerk to issue that card because they surely had his naturalization records in that office and it said he was born in Markelsheim. I have written several stories about gramp and his Wuerttemburg ancestors on my UNYG Blog. Dick Hillenbrand Upstate New York Genealogy www.unyg.com On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Kathleen March < Kathleen_March@umit.maine.edu> wrote: > Just out of curiosity, I thought I might ask the people who are > knowledgeable why a person who has been listed as from Württemberg on > several census firms (but Bavière on the ship passenger list) might at one > point have a son say that his parents > were from Switzerland? > > Was it a bad thing to be from Germany in 1930 (the census which lists > this)? The son was born in NYS about 3 years after parents' arrival in > 1854, and I found that in 1866/67 the father went back to Germany for some > reason (another mystery), so it > seems impossible that he would not know where they were from. > > Kathleen > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >