Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, This is just a gentle and friendly reminder that occasionally, the content of messages on the Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List can get a bit "off-topic," drifting a little too far from the primary intended focus of this interest group, which is genealogical and historical research *centered in* the former German states of Baden, Wuerttemberg or Hohenzollern, or the modern, post-1952 "combined" state of Baden-Wuerttemberg, which blends those three formerly separate states. Several BW List subscribers have recently contacted me off-list to note that this "off-topic" drift has affected more than a few list posts in the last day or so. In the interest of responding to those subscribers and also to list members who may have recently become part of our group, I would like to share the following information. Each RootsWeb-sponsored mailing list like this one has its own focus; ours is Baden-Wuerttemberg, Germany, both past and present. The BW list is *NOT* an "all-Germany" or "all-genealogy-topics" discussion group, nor do we usually feature significant coverage of specific research basics concerning US immigration, passenger arrival, naturalization, census, vital records or similar topics. This is not to say that we don't get QUESTIONS about these important research facets, or that no one on the list is willing or able to respond to them; however, in the interest of serving our list members who subscribe to the BW List primarily because of their desire to *hone in on Baden-Wuerttemberg-centered research,* we make every reasonable effort to keep the message threads featured here *on-topic* a majority of the time. J We'd like to suggest that any of our BW List members who may be new to genealogy research and/or need basic or step-by-step guidance on topics like immigration to the US, US naturalization (citizenship) of immigrants, passenger arrival and departure record research, US census research and similar topics can more readily and quickly find assistance with these important subjects by subscribing to mailing lists which feature these as their primary focus of discussion. Many separate RootsWeb mailing lists feature these and other topics of interest. I will post a subsequent message shortly which provides details about other RootsWeb lists and how to subscribe to them, and also offers information about how to search the Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List ARCHIVES (past messages) for help on topics that have been covered at length on this list in the past that are of interest to many people, both research "newbies" and veterans alike. For the moment, we respectfully request that everyone join us in returning the message focus of the Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List largely back to Baden-Wuerttemberg genealogy (and topics directly and immediately relevant to that.) Your understanding and cooperation will be gratefully appreciated! With best regards, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

It is often refreshing, when a topic is continued for days, and at times being repetitious with answers, to see Carla come on and present some solid basic answers and guidelines. Thank you Carla Bill Fehlinger - New Jersey **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, As what will hopefully serve as a closing postscript on the subject of United States immigration and naturalization (citizenship) record research, below are some notes and some helpful Web sites (taken from a BW List message of mine in 2000.) J ========================================== US Naturalization (citizenship) research can be complex and time-consuming. For those with an interest in researching United States naturalization, here are some excellent Web sites which provide detailed practical assistance and background information on US citizenship, its acquisition, and how to research the naturalization process of your ancestors. Arnie Lang's Guide to Naturalization Research http://home.att.net/~arnielang/ship08.html RootsWeb Lesson on Naturalization http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/lesson16.htm National Archives Guide to Naturalization Research http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/naturalization/ National Archives (Prologue Magazine) Article on Women & Naturalization http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1998/summer/women-and-naturali zation-1.html Immigration Law (publication) article on Women & Naturalization Circa 1802-1940 Part 1 http://www.ilw.com/articles/2003,0317-smith.shtm Now, here are some BRIEF background notes on the complicated and extensive subject of naturalization. J Immigrants to the USA were unable to apply for citizenship immediately upon arrival. The standard residency requirement for someone who wanted to become an American citizen was five years within the USA from the date of arrival. A person could normally file what was known as the Declaration of Intention, or "first papers" after having continuously resided in the USA for approximately 2 years. They then had to wait an additional 3 years before filing the "final papers," formally known as the Petition for Naturalization. The degree of detailed information these forms contain will vary from one person to the next; some specify an exact town of birth, others state only the country (or German "state," such as Baden, Wuerttemberg, Bavaria, etc.) As a *general* rule, Declarations of Intention are often more detailed than Petitions for Naturalization, and documents for naturalizations AFTER 1906 tend to be more informative than those prior to that time. (There was a change in the naturalization laws in 1906 which brought this about.) Before undertaking naturalization record research, it is vital to note that until 1940, foreign-born *children* under the age of 21 became American citizens when their foreign-born *father* did, and until 1922, MARRIED foreign-born *women* became US citizens when their foreign-born *husbands* did. (The laws changed again these respective years.) The children and the man's wife DID NOT file separate and individual citizenship papers for themselves---normally, only the father/husband would have filed this documentation. This often makes it difficult to research the pre-1922 naturalization of a married woman or the pre-1940 naturalization of a minor child who received derivative citizenship, as there may be no documents which recorded the process---if documented, it will be under the name of the father or husband receiving the primary citizenship, not under the children's names or that of the wife. Children over the age of 21 and/or children who were married (regardless of age) did NOT qualify for derivative citizenship. They had to file separate papers for this process themselves, and they had to fulfill the other requirements for citizenship separately from their fathers Remember that any person BORN IN the United States was a citizen of the USA from the moment of their birth, *regardless of any alien status of their parents.* Be certain you determine whether the child of an immigrant ancestor was indeed *foreign-born* before searching for a naturalization record. With warmest wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

-----Original Message----- From: baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mary Lynn Fuller Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 6:43 PM Subject: [BW] German inscription on tombstone On the tombstone for my great-grandparents her name is spelled Katharina instead of Catherine - was this the German spelling for this given name? And preceding her birthdate is "Geb." and preceding her death date is "Gest." I've not found a translation for this on the online sites that I've found. I did find that "Ruhet Sanft" that is on the tombstone as well to mean "Rest Gently". This is a beautiful stone that I'm so pleased about finding. - Mary --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Mary & Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, To address Mary's above questions: (1) Katharina is indeed a German rendering of the feminine name Catherine or Katherine (among other spellings) that we English-speakers may be more used to seeing. (2) The "Geb." preceding Katharina's birthdate on the tombstone is likely the abbreviation for the German word "geboren," which means "born." Likewise, the "Gest." preceding Katharina's death date on the tombstone is most likely the abbreviation for the German word "gestorben," which means "died." These abbreviations would be comparable to a tombstone written in English which indicated the deceased's birth and death dates. Hope this helps! Always wishing you the best family research success, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, The United States National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) has a Web page gateway to immigration record (i. e., ship passenger arrival record) research at: http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/immigration/ You may find it interesting and helpful in learning more about what records of immigration may (or may not) be available for an ancestor entering the United States. With best wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, In addition to my earlier notes about U. S. immigration ports, I am sharing below excerpts of an earlier BW List message of mine from 2002 which makes some observations about immigration through Canadian ports of entry. Sometimes, family researchers are unaware (or forget) that many immigrants from Europe who ultimately settled somewhere in the United States may have actually entered North America through a NON-U. S. port in Canada. I was personally surprised to discover, for example, that my immigrant maternal grandfather from Ukraine emigrated from the Belgian port of Antwerp in 1911 and landed at St. John, New Brunswick, Canada. I had always had the impression that he arrived in the port of New York --- an assumption supported by the fact that he indeed ultimately *settled* in New York City and spent the rest of his life there and in the Bronx. It never occurred to me that he might have arrived in Canada first! And now, for my earlier message below. [Please note that I am neither an expert on immigration/passenger record research nor a professional genealogist or researcher. I am simply sharing information I gathered on my own in the course of researching my European ancestors from Germany, Poland, Sweden and Ukraine to the United States and Canada. Other than the general information presented below, I lack the additional knowledge or resources to answer individual questions or guide someone's personal research efforts. :-) ] --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ wrote: > > I have a question I would like to ask. I would like to know if it was possible for people in the 1820's to 1830's to immigrate to the U.S. from Germany through Canada. I am having a hard time finding where my ancestors entered the U.S. I have sent requests to the National Archives to search the ships records for the major ports with no luck. I do know they left from La Harve, France. Does anyone know the major ports in Canada and how to go about checking them for ships lists? Thanks Russ ========================================================= Dear Russ & Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, To respond to Russ' above questions: 1. The following notation is copied from the National Archives of *Canada* Web site section at http://www.archives.ca/02/02020204_e.html (with regard to Canadian immigration records/passenger lists): "There are no comprehensive nominal lists of immigrants arriving in Canada prior to 1865. Until that year, shipping companies were not required by the government to retain their passenger manifests. Only a few lists have been located among our various collections. Our Miscellaneous Immigration Index is a nominal card index to some of those records and it is available for consultation in our Reference Room. It relates mostly to immigrants from the British Isles to Quebec and Ontario between the years 1801 and 1849." 2. The National Archives of Canada, which holds immigration, military and other records for Canada, has a Web site accessible at http://www.archives.ca/ . I have found it very helpful in getting some guidance in researching my Ukrainian emigrant maternal grandfather KALYTCHUK (who landed at St. John, New Brunswick in 1911, and temporarily settled in Manitoba province before later immigrating to the US). 3. There is also a related, helpful Web site of: Immigrants to Canada in the Nineteenth Century http://ist.uwaterloo.ca/~marj/genealogy/thevoyage.html 4. *Among the ports of eastern* Canada which received emigrants are Montreal, Québec, Halifax [Nova Scotia], St. John [New Brunswick], St. Johns [Newfoundland], and Prince Edward Island [PEI]. (This is not an exhaustive list, nor does it include ports of *western* Canada.) For more information on Canadian ports of entry used by immigrants from Europe, try a Google search or similar. 5. The correct spelling of the name of the French port from which Russ' ancestor[s] departed is LE HAVRE, rather than "La Harve." This common error is important to avoid, especially when doing a database or online search for information about the port and emigration from it. (It is also often referred to simply as "Havre," particularly by Europeans.) :-) Hope the foregoing is of some help! Warmest good wishes from your friendly "spelling policewoman," ;-) Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

-----Original Message----- From: baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:baden-wurttemberg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jane Glaser Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [BW] Immigration Records Thanks, Tonia for that information. Also, if they came to America in 1832, where would they have landed? I think Ellis Island didn't open until 1892, so there must have been another place to go. Thanks so much Jane ======================================= Dear Jane & Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, In response to Jane Glaser's question above, I am sharing below excerpts of an earlier BW List message of mine on this subject from 2004. Before venturing into that discussion, allow me to offer a link for some excellent, step-by-step help available online (free) in getting into passenger arrival record research. Have a look at: Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html And now, for my earlier message below. [Please note that I am neither an expert on immigration/passenger record research nor a professional genealogist or researcher. I am simply sharing information I gathered on my own in the course of researching my European ancestors from Germany, Poland, Sweden and Ukraine to the United States and Canada. Other than the general information presented below, I lack the additional knowledge or resources to answer individual questions or guide someone's personal research efforts. :-) ] --------------------------------------------------------------------------- As you research your ancestors' immigration to the U. S., it is wise to be aware that passenger arrival records are NOT filed according to which *processing facility* served an immigrant, but by the *port city* in which the immigrant arrived. The places called Castle Garden and Ellis Island were BOTH *immigrant processing facilities* serving the U. S. port city of New York. The knowledge that an ancestor was processed through Castle Garden or Ellis Island upon arrival is certainly helpful in a general sense, but does not have an impact on where to locate arrival records for research (except to confirm that a person arrived at the port of New York, as opposed to another port). The Castle Garden immigrant processing facility in New York was the *predecessor* to the more famous Ellis Island. Here are a few historical facts on both of these separately-located facilities. For U. S. immigrants arriving *PRIOR* to 1855, there was no official reception *facility.* Until Castle Garden was ready to receive them starting in 1855, disembarking passengers were permitted to leave the ships directly into the Manhattan wharf area where the ships docked. "Castle Garden" was the name given to a circular, fortress-like building located on the tip of Manhattan Island, in an area known as "the Battery." It had originally been a military station some years prior to its conversion to an immigration processing facility, which received its first immigrants 1 August 1855. It continued to receive and process immigrants arriving in the port of New York until mid-April, 1890. >From 19 April 1890 until 31 December 1891, immigrant processing and reception was temporarily transferred to the New York Barge Office, until the newly-built Ellis Island, situated separately within New York Harbor, opened its doors on 1 January 1892. (The Barge Office again temporarily fulfilled this task from 14 June 1897 through 16 December 1900, due to a fire which burned the new, wooden Ellis Island structure to the ground on 14 June 1897.) A more fire-resistant Ellis Island was rebuilt over this 3-year hiatus and reopened 17 December 1900. It officially ceased operations in 1954. Today, the facility at Ellis Island has been completely restored and is open to the public as a historical site. REGARDLESS of the specific *processing facility* through which your ancestor passed, the *research source* for arrival records concerning them is the same. Surviving passenger arrival records can be researched on microfilm made available at the U.S. National Archives (NARA) branches, and in many cases at the LDS (Mormon) Family History Library branches. In other words, whether your ancestor was processed through the port of New York at Castle Garden or Ellis Island, or arrived at another port on the East coast altogether, you would still look for available records on these arrivals through NARA and the LDS Library. To get into more detailed passenger arrival record research, you need to know (or take a reasonable guess about) the specific U. S. port at which your ancestor arrived---on the East coast, these were usually New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Baltimore (MD)---and have an approximate date of arrival in mind in order to undertake a search of the records. The arrival records are filed *according to port and in chronological order* by date of arrival. Also keep in mind that immigrants could have arrived at many different port locations in the United States and IN CANADA---not just at New York or other ports on the East coast of the U. S. However, the records for these other ports would still be found at NARA or the LDS FHL. For those who believe their immigrant ancestors landed at the port of New York and were processed at ELLIS ISLAND (1892 and later), you might visit the American Family History Immigration Center Web site at: http://www.ellisisland.org/ and try your luck at an online passenger search. (Note that the data made available at the above site is NOT comprehensive or exhaustive, but it's worth a shot at a search or two. In my own use of the site, I didn't find the family members I was seeking, but found out about others of whom I had not been aware---a nice bonus!) Hope this information is helpful. Good luck! Always wishing you the best family research success, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com writes: >On the tombstone for my great-grandparents her name is spelled Katharina instead of Catherine - was this the German spelling for this given name? And preceding her birthdate is "Geb." and preceding her death date is "Gest." I've not found a >translation for this on the online sites that I've found. I did find that "Ruhet Sanft" that is on the tombstone as well to mean "Rest Gently". This is a beautiful stone that I'm so pleased about finding. Geb. = geboren (to be born) Gest. is from sterben/gestoren = to lie dying, ie, to die It's helpful to have a sense of German grammar, eg, the verbs and their irregular forms. ge- is past tense or past participle; it often has a form that starts with the letter that comes after the ge- prefix. I still recommend sites like wordreference.com for translating dictionary type entries; the site also has phrases and variantes of words. And there are sites where people write in about translation. Kathleen

My Danish grandparents came to U.S. by way of Canada. Ancestry.com/ now has passenger lists of ships coming into Canada, and even stopping at Niagara Falls, NY. You might check that out. Evelyn SEITZ, SALZER On Aug 15, 2008, at 7:01 PM, Clayton Buerkle wrote: > I retrieved my great grandfather's Declaration of Intent and it > cleared up > one mystery. I knew he arrived in the U.S. 1893 but that's all. He > couldn't > be found in any immigration records at Ellis Island or the other > ports. His > Declaration said that he arrived in December of 1893, and that was an > interesting find. I would have thought he would aim to come in the > spring or > summer so as not to have to deal with the winter. But also, he said > that he > arrived at the port of Chicago. That got me excited for a while but > after > much research I concluded that must just not be right. I couldn't > find any > immigration port in Chicago, at least at that time. And the story > from my > grandfather was that he did come through Ellis Island. He must have > put > Chicago for some other reason, maybe he didn't know the name of > Ellis Island > where he had landed. Chicago's world fair was in 1893 and so the > city was at > it's best. What a sight it must have been for him. > > Clayton > > ----- Original Message ----- > Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:18:45 -0500 >> From: "TONIA NIELSEN" <toniraye@dishmail.net> >> Subject: Re: [BW] Immigration Records >> To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: >> <c8b6fc6f0808150818y285dd748ld0bcccaa5ea90b84@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Jane, if you can find his Declaration of Intent or naturalization >> record, >> it >> might tell you what port he used and when he arrived. >> >> my great great grandfather's declaration of intent listed his birth >> village, >> his birth date, port he left from and when, when he arrived in US. >> Luckily >> he applied for naturalization in the Indiana town where he died, >> so it >> wasn't to hard to find. >> >> Tonia >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BADEN- > WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

geb = Geboren = born (on) gest = Gestorben = died (on) ************** Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Hello Dave, are you looking for anything about Sigmaringen? Michael (Hechingen - Hohenzollern - Germany) > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: "David Stroebel" <davidstroebel@yahoo.com> > Gesendet: 15.08.08 02:51:17 > An: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com > Betreff: Re: [BW] Stroebele > Hi Kathleen, > > Yes, that's them. What database was I looking at and will it tell me something other tahn Sigmaringen? > > Dave > > > --- On Thu, 8/14/08, Kathleen March <Kathleen_March@umit.maine.edu> wrote: > > > From: Kathleen March <Kathleen_March@umit.maine.edu> > > Subject: [BW] Stroebele > > To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com > > Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 4:28 PM > > davidstroebel@yahoo.com writes: > > >I just discovered that I could not find any record of > > my great grandparents leaving germany for America on the > > Baden-Wurttemberg emmigration site at > > http://www.auswanderer-bw.de > > > > > >Castle Gardens Immigration center web site reads that > > they lived in Sigmaringen, Germany. Sigmaringen is in the > > state of Baden-Wurttemberg. Why then can't I find > > either of them even when I try to spell their names 6 > > different ways? > > > > > >Before leaving for the USA in 1883, both great > > grandparents worked in the home of Kaiser Wilhem I. Is it > > possible they worked in Berlin? > > > > > >Their names are Johann Stroebele and Bertha (Arnold) > > Stroebele. They came over with 3 small boys, one being an > > infant (11 months old). Johann came over after Bertha, but > > unsure when. He was a shoemaker. > > > > David, I found this - are these the boys? > > > > STROEBELE > > ADOLPH > > 4 > > 1883 > > > > STROEBELE > > JOHANN > > 7 > > 1883 > > > > STROEBELE > > OTTO > > 11 MONTHS > > 1883 > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dad-recherche.de/hmb/search_engl.asp?Nachname=Stroebele&Vorname=&Geschlecht=M&Datum=1883&Datum2=&Datum3= > > > > Then I found this: > > > > STROEBELE > > BERTHA > > 32 > > 1883 > > > > http://www.dad-recherche.de/hmb/search_engl.asp?Nachname=Stroebele&Vorname=Bertha&Geschlecht=F&Datum=1883&Datum2=&Datum3= > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________ Ihre Messenger, Communities und E-Mails jetzt in einem Programm! WEB.DE MultiMessenger http://www.produkte.web.de/messenger/?did=3071

On the tombstone for my great-grandparents her name is spelled Katharina instead of Catherine - was this the German spelling for this given name? And preceding her birthdate is "Geb." and preceding her death date is "Gest." I've not found a translation for this on the online sites that I've found. I did find that "Ruhet Sanft" that is on the tombstone as well to mean "Rest Gently". This is a beautiful stone that I'm so pleased about finding. - Mary

Thanks Dave, I went to the site. A lot of it is under construction. I did put in names but came up with nothing......Thanks again Jane ----- Original Message ----- From: David Stroebel To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [BW] Immigration Records The only other place for NYC was Castle Garden in Battery Park in Manhattan. www.castlegarden.org

The only other place for NYC was Castle Garden in Battery Park in Manhattan. www.castlegarden.org --- On Fri, 8/15/08, Jane Glaser <jglaser@surewest.net> wrote: > From: Jane Glaser <jglaser@surewest.net> > Subject: Re: [BW] Immigration Records > To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com > Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 7:20 PM > Thanks, Tonia for that information. Also, if they came to > America in 1832, where would they have landed? I think Ellis > Island didn't open until 1892, so there must have been > another place to go. > Thanks so much > Jane > > Jane, if you can find his Declaration of Intent or > naturalization record, it > might tell you what port he used and when he arrived. > > my great great grandfather's declaration of intent > listed his birth village, > his birth date, port he left from and when, when he > arrived in US. Luckily > he applied for naturalization in the Indiana town where > he died, so it > wasn't to hard to find. > > Tonia > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Thanks, Tonia for that information. Also, if they came to America in 1832, where would they have landed? I think Ellis Island didn't open until 1892, so there must have been another place to go. Thanks so much Jane Jane, if you can find his Declaration of Intent or naturalization record, it might tell you what port he used and when he arrived. my great great grandfather's declaration of intent listed his birth village, his birth date, port he left from and when, when he arrived in US. Luckily he applied for naturalization in the Indiana town where he died, so it wasn't to hard to find. Tonia

Thank you very much! Yes it is very interesting and adds information to what i did not know. Thank you for all your hunting. tonia On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 7:47 PM, <info@artadventures.co.nz> wrote: > i'd gathered these links trying to better understand transport and > maybe they're interesting... > > The first public journey [about 11 minutes long] was made at 9.00 am on > 24 April 1837, the first major railway line to be built between > important cities in Germany, and only the second line to be opened... > The Leipziger Zeitung, the local paper, reported... The price of a > single journey Leipzig - Althen was: First class - 8 Groschen; Second > class - 6 Groschen; Third class - 4 Groschen. There were no children's > tickets and no child under 12 years of age was allowed to travel... > from http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~jjlace/part8.html > > Article on proposed reform towards standardised pricing for German > passenger fares - 1869 proposed 5 groschen, 10 and 60 groschen for 3rd, > 2nd and 1st class respectively. http://www.jstor.org/pss/1882970 1891 > article excerpt restricted access > > RE: the value of a Groschen -- currency seems pretty complicated then > but about 24 groschen made 1 taler > > ...the poor man has completed his day's work, what did he earn for his > sour sweat? Only 7 1/2 to 10 silver groschen -- which is 20 cents in > American money... what do they earn as journeymen? The highest income > per week is 1 Thaler -- 62 cents in American money... from The > Immigration Diary of Michael Friedrich Radke, 1848 > http://hometown.aol.com/lhchristen/1848.htm > > Purchasing power of the Talers http://www.economy-point.org/t/taler.html > At the end 18. Century could acquire one in the German area for a Taler > 12 kg bread, 6 kg meat, 2 bottles Champagner, 1 kg tobacco or 250 g > dte, a shirt, a pair of shoes or three pair Wollsocken cost likewise a > Taler. > Food and cost of renting for two furnished rooms amounted to > approximately 100-120 Taler annually. > Yearly earnings/services of a master craftsman were with 200-600 Taler, > some middle Prussian official with approximately 100 Talern. The income > of a simple Prussian soldier was with annually accurately 24 Talern > because of the poverty border. While Johann Wolfgang von Goethe as a > writer and Weimar secret advice over 3000 Taler earned, Friedrich > Schiller came as a historical professor only on 200 Taler. > > > > > > On 16/08/2008, at 3:39 AM, TONIA NIELSEN wrote: > > > Hi All > > > > Not to long ago, someone posted information about railroads in Baden > > and > > said that our ancestors might have used the railroads to help them > > reach a > > sea port. I started reaching Trains in Germany and France since my > > great, > > great grandfather left Baden in 1837 and went to Le Havre to catch the > > ship. > > > > I discovered that the first long distance train was not completed until > > April 1839. It was from Leipzig to Dresden. gr, gr, grandpa could > > not have > > used that. I also discovered that France did not start building long > > distance railways until 1842. gr, gr grandpa could not have used that. > > > > However, I discovered that France is/was full of canals which connect > > all of > > their major cities and that these canals were used to move crops and > > people > > until the railroads developed. Also no one has mentioned the > > stagecoach > > which was in use in Europe and England long before it ever came to the > > US. > > So, if gr, gr, grandpa had a little money--don't know what these > > things cost > > to ride, didn't find a site that covered that--he could have loaded his > > clothes, food, and family on a canal barge and rode them for quite a > > distance. So, down the Rhine River to Strasbourg and then onto the > > canals > > for as far as possible to eventually reach Le HAvre. > > > > Tonia > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I retrieved my great grandfather's Declaration of Intent and it cleared up one mystery. I knew he arrived in the U.S. 1893 but that's all. He couldn't be found in any immigration records at Ellis Island or the other ports. His Declaration said that he arrived in December of 1893, and that was an interesting find. I would have thought he would aim to come in the spring or summer so as not to have to deal with the winter. But also, he said that he arrived at the port of Chicago. That got me excited for a while but after much research I concluded that must just not be right. I couldn't find any immigration port in Chicago, at least at that time. And the story from my grandfather was that he did come through Ellis Island. He must have put Chicago for some other reason, maybe he didn't know the name of Ellis Island where he had landed. Chicago's world fair was in 1893 and so the city was at it's best. What a sight it must have been for him. Clayton ----- Original Message ----- > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:18:45 -0500 > From: "TONIA NIELSEN" <toniraye@dishmail.net> > Subject: Re: [BW] Immigration Records > To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <c8b6fc6f0808150818y285dd748ld0bcccaa5ea90b84@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Jane, if you can find his Declaration of Intent or naturalization record, > it > might tell you what port he used and when he arrived. > > my great great grandfather's declaration of intent listed his birth > village, > his birth date, port he left from and when, when he arrived in US. > Luckily > he applied for naturalization in the Indiana town where he died, so it > wasn't to hard to find. > > Tonia >

geb. is abbreviation for geboren which means born, maiden name gest. is abbreviation for gestorben which means died Mary Lynn Fuller <mlfuller65@comcast.net> wrote: On the tombstone for my great-grandparents her name is spelled Katharina instead of Catherine - was this the German spelling for this given name? And preceding her birthdate is "Geb." and preceding her death date is "Gest." I've not found a translation for this on the online sites that I've found. I did find that "Ruhet Sanft" that is on the tombstone as well to mean "Rest Gently". This is a beautiful stone that I'm so pleased about finding. - Mary ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 8/15/2008 11:40:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, toniraye@dishmail.net writes: Hi All Not to long ago, someone posted information about railroads in Baden and said that our ancestors might have used the railroads to help them reach a sea port. I started reaching Trains in Germany and France since my great, great grandfather left Baden in 1837 and went to Le Havre to catch the ship. I discovered that the first long distance train was not completed until April 1839. It was from Leipzig to Dresden. gr, gr, grandpa could not have used that. I also discovered that France did not start building long distance railways until 1842. gr, gr grandpa could not have used that. However, I discovered that France is/was full of canals which connect all of their major cities and that these canals were used to move crops and people until the railroads developed. Also no one has mentioned the stagecoach which was in use in Europe and England long before it ever came to the US. So, if gr, gr, grandpa had a little money--don't know what these things cost to ride, didn't find a site that covered that--he could have loaded his clothes, food, and family on a canal barge and rode them for quite a distance. So, down the Rhine River to Strasbourg and then onto the canals for as far as possible to eventually reach Le HAvre. Tonia Many hitched the family cow to a cart and rode or walked along side to Le Harve. Then sold the cart and cow before departing on the ship. Kent **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

davidstroebel@yahoo.com writes: >I found my ggrandfather yesterday on www.castlegarden.org. I did a search for "Str*" (with the asterict *) and between 1883 and 1885. They have his last name spelled differently, as "Strobl" When will the variations in spelling stop! I have seen it >spelled 7 different ways in my research. And as I've posted previously, the variations on <March> have been so many Mrz and Moares are still my favorites... ) that I am really discouraged at finding Hilimire in its original form. Trumeter has at least 5 versions as well, with Trumda my favorite - and pretty good proof that the surname, which in a borderland area, was pronounced by its owner with a French rather than a German accent. Am cringing at the thought of going after the Johann Simon Mörz I discovered alongside Karl, with an emigration date of 1851. They're probably related, since they are also listed as having same origin, but he hasn't surfaced yet in my internet wanderings. It's a wonder we find anybody, even with all the technology and international communication. And it is still hard to find the wives' original last names. Kathleen