Try the following website for the answer to your question. http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/<http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/> "Auswanderer, 17. bis 20. Jahrhundert," which roughly translates as "Emigrant[s], 17th-20th Century." David Kemle ----- Original Message ----- From: bbmay1<mailto:bbmay1@newnorth.net> To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com<mailto:baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [BW] Emigration Index Ron, Doesn't the Wurttemberg Emigration list only include a few years? ----- Original Message ----- From: <VistaRon96@aol.com<mailto:VistaRon96@aol.com>> To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com<mailto:baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [BW] Emigration Index > > Greetings List, > > In the Wurttemberg Emigration Index I found the following: > Johann Christoph BIHLMAIER; birth place Baach (no date); application date > Apr 1831; > destination South Russia; Number 856405. > > There are 23 other people with the same number. > Two born Beinstein; app. date Apr. 1832 > One born Waiblingen; app. date Apr. 1832 > > > > Some state South Russia, some just Russia > > My G-Grandfather, (Johann) Christopher Bylmyer (per 1855 Wisconsin, USA > census) born 14 May 1814 > Emigrated from Bremen (May 1838) to Baltimore, Maryland (29 June 1838) > He was a Blacksmith by trade in the US. > How do I find when he actually left? No knowledge that he came with other > family. > How would travelers get to " South Russia" from Baden-Wurttemberg? > If they went North could they change their minds when they got to Bremen? > > Thank You for any help. > > Ron HABEL (HEBEL) > Vista, CA, USA > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007<http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007> > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ron, Doesn't the Wurttemberg Emigration list only include a few years? ----- Original Message ----- From: <VistaRon96@aol.com> To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [BW] Emigration Index > > Greetings List, > > In the Wurttemberg Emigration Index I found the following: > Johann Christoph BIHLMAIER; birth place Baach (no date); application date > Apr 1831; > destination South Russia; Number 856405. > > There are 23 other people with the same number. > Two born Beinstein; app. date Apr. 1832 > One born Waiblingen; app. date Apr. 1832 > > > > Some state South Russia, some just Russia > > My G-Grandfather, (Johann) Christopher Bylmyer (per 1855 Wisconsin, USA > census) born 14 May 1814 > Emigrated from Bremen (May 1838) to Baltimore, Maryland (29 June 1838) > He was a Blacksmith by trade in the US. > How do I find when he actually left? No knowledge that he came with other > family. > How would travelers get to " South Russia" from Baden-Wurttemberg? > If they went North could they change their minds when they got to Bremen? > > Thank You for any help. > > Ron HABEL (HEBEL) > Vista, CA, USA > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Greetings List, In the Wurttemberg Emigration Index I found the following: Johann Christoph BIHLMAIER; birth place Baach (no date); application date Apr 1831; destination South Russia; Number 856405. There are 23 other people with the same number. Two born Beinstein; app. date Apr. 1832 One born Waiblingen; app. date Apr. 1832 Some state South Russia, some just Russia My G-Grandfather, (Johann) Christopher Bylmyer (per 1855 Wisconsin, USA census) born 14 May 1814 Emigrated from Bremen (May 1838) to Baltimore, Maryland (29 June 1838) He was a Blacksmith by trade in the US. How do I find when he actually left? No knowledge that he came with other family. How would travelers get to " South Russia" from Baden-Wurttemberg? If they went North could they change their minds when they got to Bremen? Thank You for any help. Ron HABEL (HEBEL) Vista, CA, USA **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, I hear from many list members all the time of their frustrations in trying to locate emigration records (or emigration index entries) for their ancestors who are known or believed to have emigrated from Baden, Wuerttemberg, Hohenzollern, and elsewhere. They often are baffled as to why such records seem so hard to find, or even non-existent. For those who are seeking emigration records or indexes for German ancestors and those who might be coming up empty-handed in the process, here are a few observations that might at least be helpful to know. Before we proceed, please note that I am talking here about EMIGRATION records originating in the ancestor's European general hometown area---NOT ship's PASSENGER departure records created at the point of departure in a port city such as Bremen, Hamburg, Le Havre, Antwerp, or elsewhere (or passenger ARRIVAL records created once the emigrant reached his or her point of debarkation in the new country.) These are different types of records, created in different places at separate times, and pertain in different ways to the act of a person's emigration from his or her country of origin to settle somewhere else. ===================================================== It is important to keep in mind that emigration (the leaving of one's country to settle in another) was not always motivated by positive circumstances. *While it was the usual procedure* to seek official permission from the local authorities before leaving, many, many emigrants did NOT. For many of them, emigration was the only means to avoid obligatory military service, economic hardship, serious diseases, the ravages of war, revolution, and other compelling situations. Under certain kinds of circumstances, people may have decided not to *publicize* their intention to leave by applying for formal permission beforehand, and left without it. A considerable number of people NEVER obtained this permission, but eventually emigrated nonetheless. One of our primary concerns as family researchers is to understand that some of the records or other documents we may look for might *not have ever been created.* Regardless of one's specific reasons for leaving, if an emigrant did NOT formally apply for *permission* to leave, no official record would have been created concerning their emigration, and therefore their names and other information would NOT likely be found in the emigration indexes. This does not necessarily mean you won't find information about their travel in a ships' *passenger departure or arrival lists,* which is sometimes a good alternative if you can't locate emigration permits for them. Again--EMIGRATION records and PASSENGER LISTS are NOT the same things. They were created for different reasons, in separate places, and at different times in the course of a person's emigration and travel. (See the end of this message for some links to information about passenger list research.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- As to the reasons for European emigration, they were many, and in effect over a long period in the 19th century. As has been mentioned on this list in the past, one factor that led to German emigration was the the unstable political situation in the German states in 1848, following the failed revolutions. Many individuals indeed fled Europe during this time, but their departure in considerable numbers was not limited to that immediate period, nor to that cause. Don't forget that there were various notable wars in the German states over time, and many people emigrated to avoid military service, or the hardships imposed by war. Increases in taxation created economic hardship for many people, and affordable land became scarce with the ever-growing population. Increasing industrialization negatively affected a number of trades, and drove many to the overcrowded cities in search of employment. As available employment progressively declined, many people chose to emigrate to avoid economic problems. Others were attracted to emigrate to the US or other countries because they already had someone there who was benefitting from better employment opportunities or plentiful land to encourage them. Added to unstable European political climates or the threat or reality of war, these and other factors no doubt made the prospect of life in the USA and elsewhere quite promising at the time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For detailed practical help on researching *ships' passenger lists* (and also US Naturalization documents), see Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step advice]: http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html For more general info on what you might expect to find in *emigration records* (if you can secure them), you might like to visit my Web page on the subject, Research Access/Background for the Baden Emigration Index: http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/ Hope this helps! :-) Warmest wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List ====================================================

Would that I knew. ----- Original Message ----- From: "bbmay1" <bbmay1@newnorth.net> To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to find (Me too) > Sheri, I am in the same boat.Except on my grandfathers it says he had to > renounce William 11. I thought that would help. But with the history of > Germany it wasn't much help. Where do we go from there? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sheri Martin" <elm121147@verizon.net> > To: <mscarlah@earthlink.net>; <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find > (orNon-Existent) :-) > > >>I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of >>my >> maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They >> both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that >> Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other >> information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any >> further >> suggestions? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carla Heller" <mscarlah@earthlink.net> >> To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 12:57 PM >> Subject: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find >> (orNon-Existent) :-) >> >> >>> Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, >>> >>> For those who are seeking emigration records or indexes for German >>> ancestors >>> and those who might be coming up empty-handed in the process, here are a >>> few >>> observations that might at least be helpful to know. :-) >>> >>> It is important to keep in mind that emigration (the leaving of one's >>> country of origin to settle in another) was not always motivated by >>> positive >>> circumstances. *While it was the usual procedure* to seek official >>> permission from the local authorities before leaving, many, many >>> emigrants >>> did NOT. For many of them, emigration was the only means to avoid >>> obligatory >>> military service, economic hardship, serious diseases, the ravages of >>> war, >>> revolution, and other compelling situations. Under certain kinds of >>> circumstances, people may have decided not to *publicize* their >>> intention >>> to >>> leave by applying for formal permission beforehand, and left without it. >>> A >>> considerable number of people NEVER obtained this permission, but >>> eventuallyemigrated nonetheless. >>> >>> One of our primary concerns as family researchers is to understand that >>> some >>> of the records or other documents we may look for might *not have ever >>> been >>> created.* Regardless of one's specific reasons for leaving, if an >>> emigrant >>> did NOT formally apply for *permission* to leave, no official record >>> would >>> have been created concerning their emigration, and therefore their names >>> and >>> other information would NOT likely be found in the emigration indexes. >>> This >>> does not necessarily mean you won't find information about their travel >>> in >>> a >>> ships' *passenger departure or arrival lists,* which is sometimes a good >>> alternative if you can't locate emigration permits for them. >>> >>> Remember--EMIGRATION records and ships' PASSENGER LISTS are **NOT** the >>> same >>> things! >>> >>> They were created for different reasons, in separate places, and at >>> different times in the course of a person's emigration and travel. (See >>> the >>> end of this message for some links to information about passenger list >>> research.) >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------------- >>> >>> As to the reasons for European emigration, they were many, and in effect >>> over a long period in the 19th century. As has been mentioned on this >>> list >>> in the past, one factor that led to German emigration was the the >>> unstable >>> political situation in the German states in 1848, following the failed >>> revolutions. Many individuals indeed fled Europe during this time, but >>> their departure in considerable numbers was not limited to that >>> immediate >>> period, nor to that cause. Don't forget that there were various notable >>> wars in the German states over time, and many people emigrated to avoid >>> military service, or the hardships imposed by war. >>> >>> Increases in taxation created economic hardship for many people, and >>> affordable land became scarce with the ever-growing population. >>> Increasing >>> industrialization negatively affected a number of trades, and drove many >>> to >>> the overcrowded cities in search of employment. As available employment >>> progressively declined, many people chose to emigrate to avoid economic >>> problems. Others were attracted to emigrate to the US or other countries >>> because they already had someone there who was benefitting from better >>> employment opportunities or plentiful land to encourage them. Added to >>> unstable European political climates or the threat or reality of war, >>> these >>> and other factors no doubt made the prospect of life in the USA and >>> elsewhere quite promising at the time. >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> For detailed practical help on researching *ships' passenger lists* (and >>> also US Naturalization documents), see Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' >>> Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step >>> advice]: >>> >>> http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html >>> >>> For more general info on what you might expect to find in *emigration >>> records* (if you can secure them), you might like to visit my Web page >>> on >>> the subject, Research Access/Background for the Baden Emigration Index: >>> >>> http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/ >>> >>> Hope this helps! :-) >>> >>> Warmest wishes, >>> >>> Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net >>> List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List >>> ==================================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear BW List Friends, There's a new record search "pilot" at the LDS Family Search website. The main pilot page can be found at: http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=0 For Germany searches, click on "View All Databases" -- and locate the appropriate German Records. Or, go directly to the links below: For Searchable Germany Baptisms 1700-1900: http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;t=searchable;c=1473000 For Searchable Germany Marriages 1700-1900: http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;t=searchable;c=1473009 Keep an eye on this pilot site, as it's expanding constantly. They're also looking for indexing volunteers! Happy hunting! Rob Westphal Researching: Westphal (S/H), Nommsen (S/H), Reihlen (B/W), Mohr (R/F), Frickenhaus (B/W + NRW), Brueggemayer (B/W), and Bachmayer (B/W)

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, If you're just getting started in overseas German genealogy research (or have been at it for a while and are just hitting too many 'brick walls' and don't know where to turn next), I'd recommend the following great Web sites (all links below have been recently updated) to help you get started in the right direction. J Why not give at least some of these tools a try in advancing your German family search---you may be surprised how well you do! :-) Warmest wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List _____ 1) soc.genealogy.german Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.genealogienetz.de/faqs/sgg.html#starters This helpful site answers the following often-asked questions in detail: How can I start researching my German or German-American family? What introductory or general books should I read? Can you help me with surname ________________? Where can I register/find my surnames? What are the rules for given names? Where is the town/village ___________________? How do I find an address or phone number? How can I find out what village my ancestor came from? What about the German census? How about German cemeteries? What does my German surname mean? Is my family from a town with a name like their surname? How can I learn about German noble families? Where can I find German military records? How do I write to a German Standesamt, parish, or archive? How do I find German postal codes? I don't know German. What should I do? I can't read German handwriting. What should I do? What is the basic German genealogical vocabulary? What are the German umlauts and genealogical symbols? How can I send money to Germany? What is the IGI? Where can I find passenger lists or ship information? What is Germans to America? What German archives and/or genealogical organizations are there? How do I find a book about ________________? Should I buy a surname/crest/family history book sold by mail? Where do I go on the internet for German genealogy? What are soc.genealogy.german, soc.genealogy.surnames.german, and de.sci.genealogie? Are there other online resources for genealogy? ============================================ 2) RootsWeb's Guide "On the Trail of Germanic Ancestors" http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/lesson26.htm 3) RootsWeb's Guide "Tracing Your Immigrant Ancestors" http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/lesson15.htm 4) RootsWeb's Guide "Explore Naturalization & Immigration Information [ISTG]" http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rwguide/lesson16.htm 5) Linda Herrick's "Finding Where Your Ancestors Came From in Germany" http://www.originsbooks.com/132/cat132.htm?978 6) LDS Family History Library Ancestor Search [look up your ancestors' names (free) in the immense collection of extracted data gathered by the LDS Library] http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp 7) Cyndi Howell's amazing database of genealogy links, Cyndi's List (for Germany): http://www.CyndisList.com/germany.htm 8) Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step advice] http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html 9) Regional Research in German-Speaking Countries http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/regio.htm 10) Links for German Genealogy on the Internet http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/germanlinks.html 11) Basic Research Outline for German Genealogy http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/outline.html ==================================================

Thank you to all who have replied! I've found the information quite helpful! - Mary

Excellent and useful summary, Carla. I would only add that this German Empire, that was founded ca. 1871, cenetered on the Kingdom of Prussia, and for whom the Hohenzollerns were the ruling family was the "Second" German Empire. The First German Empire was that founded by Charlemagne, generally known as the Holy Roman Empire, and loosely governed by a council of prince electors, who would meet to choose the next emperor. For the most part, the Emperor was chosen from the Habsburg family. There was a Third German Empire, this one of a distinctly different form. We often hear it referred to as "The Third Reich," and it was ruled by Adolf Hitler. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "BW List Co-Administrator" <mscarlah@earthlink.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sheri Martin [mailto:elm121147@verizon.net] > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 7:59 AM > To: mscarlah@earthlink.net; baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find > (orNon-Existent) :-) > > I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of my > maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They > both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that > Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other > information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any further > suggestions? > ===================== > Dear Sheri, > > I think we've managed to create some confusion for you. What you need to > understand was that what we know as "Germany" did not always cover the same > amount of territory throughout its history, nor was "Germany" always a > single, unified nation with a single sovereign ruler. I will attempt to > super-condense the historical facts into a nutshell for you, and you can > research it further if you are so inclined. > > For a long part of "Germany's" history, it was it was made up of hundreds of > individually sovereign states, each with its own particular ruler (kings, > princes, grand dukes, margraves, etc.) These were not united into a single > nation until the formation of the German Empire, a semi-constitutional > monarchy which came into existence (and along with it the "Emperor of > Germany") on 18 January 1871, when the existing king of the German state of > Prussia, King Wilhelm I, was proclaimed German Emperor ("Kaiser" in German.) > (He and those who followed him on the imperial throne remained King of > Prussia while also being Emperor of Germany.) There were only three > Emperors of Germany: Wilhelm I (who died in March, 1888), Wilhelm's son > Friedrich III (who was ill will terminal cancer and died only 3 months after > his accession in June 1888) and Friedrich III's son, Wilhelm II (who was > Emperor of Germany from 15 June 1888 until 9 November 1918.) > > Your problem is that the naturalization or other documents you have which > tell you the place of origin for your grandfathers apparently do NOT specify > their exact villages, towns or cities of origin WITHIN the overall German > Empire or even within the state of Baden or Wuerttemberg or Hohenzollern or > wherever else they may have been from. Just knowing that their sovereign > was the Emperor of Germany (regardless of which one was reigning at the > time) unfortunately does not sufficiently pinpoint your ancestors' specific > places of origin. Even knowing that they may have been subjects of say, the > King of Wuerttemberg is not going to be too helpful. (Wuerttemberg was a > kingdom at the same time there was a German Empire in existence, and again, > that still doesn't tell you where in either the kingdom or the empire your > ancestors came from---darn it all!) > > If that is the only documentation you have for those persons, you still do > not yet have something which will provide a sufficient clue to their roots > in "Germany." Not knowing what other records on them you may have (or not), > or what other types of research you may have done, it is difficult to make a > reasonable suggestion as to how to might proceed from here. Can you tell us > anything else that might be pertinent to these men? > > Hope we can help you if we have more details, if you have any to share. > > Best wishes, > > Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net > List Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am sorry I meant my husband gg-grandfather's records. Sorry my mistake Marilyn -------------- Original message -------------- From: mbartenslager3735@comcast.net > I have been reading about the Citizenship records referring to Germany. I have > my husband records of his Declaration of Intent dated September 1856 and it > referred to William 1st King of Wurtemberg. Then Oct 1860, when his petition > read in court referrs to the same "1st King of Wurtemburg > William. which makes wonder if Wuertembug was a country of its own before it > became a part of Germany. > Marilyn Bartenslager > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "BW List Co-Administrator" > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sheri Martin [mailto:elm121147@verizon.net] > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 7:59 AM > > To: mscarlah@earthlink.net; baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find > > (orNon-Existent) :-) > > > > I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of my > > maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They > > both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that > > Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other > > information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any further > > suggestions? > > ===================== > > Dear Sheri, > > > > I think we've managed to create some confusion for you. What you need to > > understand was that what we know as "Germany" did not always cover the same > > amount of territory throughout its history, nor was "Germany" always a > > single, unified nation with a single sovereign ruler. I will attempt to > > super-condense the historical facts into a nutshell for you, and you can > > research it further if you are so inclined. > > > > For a long part of "Germany's" history, it was it was made up of hundreds of > > individually sovereign states, each with its own particular ruler (kings, > > princes, grand dukes, margraves, etc.) These were not united into a single > > nation until the formation of the German Empire, a semi-constitutional > > monarchy which came into existence (and along with it the "Emperor of > > Germany") on 18 January 1871, when the existing king of the German state of > > Prussia, King Wilhelm I, was proclaimed German Emperor ("Kaiser" in German.) > > (He and those who followed him on the imperial throne remained King of > > Prussia while also being Emperor of Germany.) There were only three > > Emperors of Germany: Wilhelm I (who died in March, 1888), Wilhelm's son > > Friedrich III (who was ill will terminal cancer and died only 3 months after > > his accession in June 1888) and Friedrich III's son, Wilhelm II (who was > > Emperor of Germany from 15 June 1888 until 9 November 1918.) > > > > Your problem is that the naturalization or other documents you have which > > tell you the place of origin for your grandfathers apparently do NOT specify > > their exact villages, towns or cities of origin WITHIN the overall German > > Empire or even within the state of Baden or Wuerttemberg or Hohenzollern or > > wherever else they may have been from. Just knowing that their sovereign > > was the Emperor of Germany (regardless of which one was reigning at the > > time) unfortunately does not sufficiently pinpoint your ancestors' specific > > places of origin. Even knowing that they may have been subjects of say, the > > King of Wuerttemberg is not going to be too helpful. (Wuerttemberg was a > > kingdom at the same time there was a German Empire in existence, and again, > > that still doesn't tell you where in either the kingdom or the empire your > > ancestors came from---darn it all!) > > > > If that is the only documentation you have for those persons, you still do > > not yet have something which will provide a sufficient clue to their roots > > in "Germany." Not knowing what other records on them you may have (or not), > > or what other types of research you may have done, it is difficult to make a > > reasonable suggestion as to how to might proceed from here. Can you tell us > > anything else that might be pertinent to these men? > > > > Hope we can help you if we have more details, if you have any to share. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net > > List Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have been reading about the Citizenship records referring to Germany. I have my husband records of his Declaration of Intent dated September 1856 and it referred to William 1st King of Wurtemberg. Then Oct 1860, when his petition read in court referrs to the same "1st King of Wurtemburg William. which makes wonder if Wuertembug was a country of its own before it became a part of Germany. Marilyn Bartenslager -------------- Original message -------------- From: "BW List Co-Administrator" <mscarlah@earthlink.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sheri Martin [mailto:elm121147@verizon.net] > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 7:59 AM > To: mscarlah@earthlink.net; baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find > (orNon-Existent) :-) > > I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of my > maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They > both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that > Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other > information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any further > suggestions? > ===================== > Dear Sheri, > > I think we've managed to create some confusion for you. What you need to > understand was that what we know as "Germany" did not always cover the same > amount of territory throughout its history, nor was "Germany" always a > single, unified nation with a single sovereign ruler. I will attempt to > super-condense the historical facts into a nutshell for you, and you can > research it further if you are so inclined. > > For a long part of "Germany's" history, it was it was made up of hundreds of > individually sovereign states, each with its own particular ruler (kings, > princes, grand dukes, margraves, etc.) These were not united into a single > nation until the formation of the German Empire, a semi-constitutional > monarchy which came into existence (and along with it the "Emperor of > Germany") on 18 January 1871, when the existing king of the German state of > Prussia, King Wilhelm I, was proclaimed German Emperor ("Kaiser" in German.) > (He and those who followed him on the imperial throne remained King of > Prussia while also being Emperor of Germany.) There were only three > Emperors of Germany: Wilhelm I (who died in March, 1888), Wilhelm's son > Friedrich III (who was ill will terminal cancer and died only 3 months after > his accession in June 1888) and Friedrich III's son, Wilhelm II (who was > Emperor of Germany from 15 June 1888 until 9 November 1918.) > > Your problem is that the naturalization or other documents you have which > tell you the place of origin for your grandfathers apparently do NOT specify > their exact villages, towns or cities of origin WITHIN the overall German > Empire or even within the state of Baden or Wuerttemberg or Hohenzollern or > wherever else they may have been from. Just knowing that their sovereign > was the Emperor of Germany (regardless of which one was reigning at the > time) unfortunately does not sufficiently pinpoint your ancestors' specific > places of origin. Even knowing that they may have been subjects of say, the > King of Wuerttemberg is not going to be too helpful. (Wuerttemberg was a > kingdom at the same time there was a German Empire in existence, and again, > that still doesn't tell you where in either the kingdom or the empire your > ancestors came from---darn it all!) > > If that is the only documentation you have for those persons, you still do > not yet have something which will provide a sufficient clue to their roots > in "Germany." Not knowing what other records on them you may have (or not), > or what other types of research you may have done, it is difficult to make a > reasonable suggestion as to how to might proceed from here. Can you tell us > anything else that might be pertinent to these men? > > Hope we can help you if we have more details, if you have any to share. > > Best wishes, > > Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net > List Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sheri, I am in the same boat.Except on my grandfathers it says he had to renounce William 11. I thought that would help. But with the history of Germany it wasn't much help. Where do we go from there? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Martin" <elm121147@verizon.net> To: <mscarlah@earthlink.net>; <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find (orNon-Existent) :-) >I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of my > maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They > both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that > Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other > information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any further > suggestions? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carla Heller" <mscarlah@earthlink.net> > To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find > (orNon-Existent) :-) > > >> Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, >> >> For those who are seeking emigration records or indexes for German >> ancestors >> and those who might be coming up empty-handed in the process, here are a >> few >> observations that might at least be helpful to know. :-) >> >> It is important to keep in mind that emigration (the leaving of one's >> country of origin to settle in another) was not always motivated by >> positive >> circumstances. *While it was the usual procedure* to seek official >> permission from the local authorities before leaving, many, many >> emigrants >> did NOT. For many of them, emigration was the only means to avoid >> obligatory >> military service, economic hardship, serious diseases, the ravages of >> war, >> revolution, and other compelling situations. Under certain kinds of >> circumstances, people may have decided not to *publicize* their intention >> to >> leave by applying for formal permission beforehand, and left without it. >> A >> considerable number of people NEVER obtained this permission, but >> eventuallyemigrated nonetheless. >> >> One of our primary concerns as family researchers is to understand that >> some >> of the records or other documents we may look for might *not have ever >> been >> created.* Regardless of one's specific reasons for leaving, if an >> emigrant >> did NOT formally apply for *permission* to leave, no official record >> would >> have been created concerning their emigration, and therefore their names >> and >> other information would NOT likely be found in the emigration indexes. >> This >> does not necessarily mean you won't find information about their travel >> in >> a >> ships' *passenger departure or arrival lists,* which is sometimes a good >> alternative if you can't locate emigration permits for them. >> >> Remember--EMIGRATION records and ships' PASSENGER LISTS are **NOT** the >> same >> things! >> >> They were created for different reasons, in separate places, and at >> different times in the course of a person's emigration and travel. (See >> the >> end of this message for some links to information about passenger list >> research.) >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------------- >> >> As to the reasons for European emigration, they were many, and in effect >> over a long period in the 19th century. As has been mentioned on this >> list >> in the past, one factor that led to German emigration was the the >> unstable >> political situation in the German states in 1848, following the failed >> revolutions. Many individuals indeed fled Europe during this time, but >> their departure in considerable numbers was not limited to that immediate >> period, nor to that cause. Don't forget that there were various notable >> wars in the German states over time, and many people emigrated to avoid >> military service, or the hardships imposed by war. >> >> Increases in taxation created economic hardship for many people, and >> affordable land became scarce with the ever-growing population. >> Increasing >> industrialization negatively affected a number of trades, and drove many >> to >> the overcrowded cities in search of employment. As available employment >> progressively declined, many people chose to emigrate to avoid economic >> problems. Others were attracted to emigrate to the US or other countries >> because they already had someone there who was benefitting from better >> employment opportunities or plentiful land to encourage them. Added to >> unstable European political climates or the threat or reality of war, >> these >> and other factors no doubt made the prospect of life in the USA and >> elsewhere quite promising at the time. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> For detailed practical help on researching *ships' passenger lists* (and >> also US Naturalization documents), see Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' >> Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step >> advice]: >> >> http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html >> >> For more general info on what you might expect to find in *emigration >> records* (if you can secure them), you might like to visit my Web page on >> the subject, Research Access/Background for the Baden Emigration Index: >> >> http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/ >> >> Hope this helps! :-) >> >> Warmest wishes, >> >> Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net >> List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List >> ==================================================== >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

i'd gathered these links trying to better understand transport and maybe they're interesting... The first public journey [about 11 minutes long] was made at 9.00 am on 24 April 1837, the first major railway line to be built between important cities in Germany, and only the second line to be opened... The Leipziger Zeitung, the local paper, reported... The price of a single journey Leipzig - Althen was: First class - 8 Groschen; Second class - 6 Groschen; Third class - 4 Groschen. There were no children's tickets and no child under 12 years of age was allowed to travel... from http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~jjlace/part8.html Article on proposed reform towards standardised pricing for German passenger fares - 1869 proposed 5 groschen, 10 and 60 groschen for 3rd, 2nd and 1st class respectively. http://www.jstor.org/pss/1882970 1891 article excerpt restricted access RE: the value of a Groschen -- currency seems pretty complicated then but about 24 groschen made 1 taler ...the poor man has completed his day's work, what did he earn for his sour sweat? Only 7 1/2 to 10 silver groschen -- which is 20 cents in American money... what do they earn as journeymen? The highest income per week is 1 Thaler -- 62 cents in American money... from The Immigration Diary of Michael Friedrich Radke, 1848 http://hometown.aol.com/lhchristen/1848.htm Purchasing power of the Talers http://www.economy-point.org/t/taler.html At the end 18. Century could acquire one in the German area for a Taler 12 kg bread, 6 kg meat, 2 bottles Champagner, 1 kg tobacco or 250 g dte, a shirt, a pair of shoes or three pair Wollsocken cost likewise a Taler. Food and cost of renting for two furnished rooms amounted to approximately 100-120 Taler annually. Yearly earnings/services of a master craftsman were with 200-600 Taler, some middle Prussian official with approximately 100 Talern. The income of a simple Prussian soldier was with annually accurately 24 Talern because of the poverty border. While Johann Wolfgang von Goethe as a writer and Weimar secret advice over 3000 Taler earned, Friedrich Schiller came as a historical professor only on 200 Taler. On 16/08/2008, at 3:39 AM, TONIA NIELSEN wrote: > Hi All > > Not to long ago, someone posted information about railroads in Baden > and > said that our ancestors might have used the railroads to help them > reach a > sea port. I started reaching Trains in Germany and France since my > great, > great grandfather left Baden in 1837 and went to Le Havre to catch the > ship. > > I discovered that the first long distance train was not completed until > April 1839. It was from Leipzig to Dresden. gr, gr, grandpa could > not have > used that. I also discovered that France did not start building long > distance railways until 1842. gr, gr grandpa could not have used that. > > However, I discovered that France is/was full of canals which connect > all of > their major cities and that these canals were used to move crops and > people > until the railroads developed. Also no one has mentioned the > stagecoach > which was in use in Europe and England long before it ever came to the > US. > So, if gr, gr, grandpa had a little money--don't know what these > things cost > to ride, didn't find a site that covered that--he could have loaded his > clothes, food, and family on a canal barge and rode them for quite a > distance. So, down the Rhine River to Strasbourg and then onto the > canals > for as far as possible to eventually reach Le HAvre. > > Tonia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

At 10:29 PM 8/15/2008, you wrote: >Thanks Dave, I went to the site. A lot of it is under construction. >I did put in names but came up with nothing......Thanks again I looked for my grandfather and came up empty -- but they told me to try again. Lorraine No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1615 - Release Date: 8/16/2008 7:11 AM

Does anyone have easy access to the "Sippenbuch der Stadt Obergrombach" and can do a lookup for the Nikolaus Schneider family. This family went to Russia in 1809. Nikolaus Schneider was born about 1751, married first Magdalena Grimm (died 30.Aug.1793) and married second Maria Franziska Fabri of Joehlingen. The FHL Catholic film for Obergrombach starts at 1785. Was Obergrombach part of some other parish before 1785? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Matt Klee

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, While I am usually not a big fan (or ardent user) of Wikipedia (because its material is not necessarily accurate, complete or up-to-date, nor often written by authorities on the subject), here are some links to various Wikipedia-based articles featuring brief histories and other interesting details on Baden, Wuerttemberg, the German Empire, etc. Some of you may find these useful in gaining more understanding of the history and composition of the place rather confusingly designated in English as just "Germany." I imagine having a clearer understanding of this kind would be as essential to many of you as it was to me in making sense of my German family research. J (And we didn't have Wikipedia when I started way back then . . .) You can also use a handy search engine like Google to find more detailed, historically accurate and current information. Happy History! Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany History of Baden (the German state, not the town) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden History of Wuerttemberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Wurttemberg German Empire ("Second Reich") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_empire Emperor of Germany (List of German monarchs) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_Germany Hohenzollern (the state and former Prussia province, not the royal house) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_of_Hohenzollern Baden-Wuerttemberg (the post 1952 combined modern state) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg

I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of my maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any further suggestions? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carla Heller" <mscarlah@earthlink.net> To: <baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 12:57 PM Subject: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find (orNon-Existent) :-) > Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, > > For those who are seeking emigration records or indexes for German > ancestors > and those who might be coming up empty-handed in the process, here are a > few > observations that might at least be helpful to know. :-) > > It is important to keep in mind that emigration (the leaving of one's > country of origin to settle in another) was not always motivated by > positive > circumstances. *While it was the usual procedure* to seek official > permission from the local authorities before leaving, many, many emigrants > did NOT. For many of them, emigration was the only means to avoid > obligatory > military service, economic hardship, serious diseases, the ravages of war, > revolution, and other compelling situations. Under certain kinds of > circumstances, people may have decided not to *publicize* their intention > to > leave by applying for formal permission beforehand, and left without it. A > considerable number of people NEVER obtained this permission, but > eventuallyemigrated nonetheless. > > One of our primary concerns as family researchers is to understand that > some > of the records or other documents we may look for might *not have ever > been > created.* Regardless of one's specific reasons for leaving, if an emigrant > did NOT formally apply for *permission* to leave, no official record would > have been created concerning their emigration, and therefore their names > and > other information would NOT likely be found in the emigration indexes. > This > does not necessarily mean you won't find information about their travel in > a > ships' *passenger departure or arrival lists,* which is sometimes a good > alternative if you can't locate emigration permits for them. > > Remember--EMIGRATION records and ships' PASSENGER LISTS are **NOT** the > same > things! > > They were created for different reasons, in separate places, and at > different times in the course of a person's emigration and travel. (See > the > end of this message for some links to information about passenger list > research.) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > As to the reasons for European emigration, they were many, and in effect > over a long period in the 19th century. As has been mentioned on this list > in the past, one factor that led to German emigration was the the unstable > political situation in the German states in 1848, following the failed > revolutions. Many individuals indeed fled Europe during this time, but > their departure in considerable numbers was not limited to that immediate > period, nor to that cause. Don't forget that there were various notable > wars in the German states over time, and many people emigrated to avoid > military service, or the hardships imposed by war. > > Increases in taxation created economic hardship for many people, and > affordable land became scarce with the ever-growing population. Increasing > industrialization negatively affected a number of trades, and drove many > to > the overcrowded cities in search of employment. As available employment > progressively declined, many people chose to emigrate to avoid economic > problems. Others were attracted to emigrate to the US or other countries > because they already had someone there who was benefitting from better > employment opportunities or plentiful land to encourage them. Added to > unstable European political climates or the threat or reality of war, > these > and other factors no doubt made the prospect of life in the USA and > elsewhere quite promising at the time. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For detailed practical help on researching *ships' passenger lists* (and > also US Naturalization documents), see Arnie Lang's Immigration, Ships' > Passenger Lists & Naturalization Research Guide [excellent step-by-step > advice]: > > http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html > > For more general info on what you might expect to find in *emigration > records* (if you can secure them), you might like to visit my Web page on > the subject, Research Access/Background for the Baden Emigration Index: > > http://www.geocities.com/wingedpig.geo/ > > Hope this helps! :-) > > Warmest wishes, > > Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net > List Co-Administrator, ROOTSWEB'S Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List > ==================================================== > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

clayton, how do you find a declaration of intent? On Aug 15, 2008, at 10:01 PM, Clayton Buerkle wrote: > I retrieved my great grandfather's Declaration of Intent and it > cleared up > one mystery. I knew he arrived in the U.S. 1893 but that's all. He > couldn't > be found in any immigration records at Ellis Island or the other > ports. His > Declaration said that he arrived in December of 1893, and that was an > interesting find. I would have thought he would aim to come in the > spring or > summer so as not to have to deal with the winter. But also, he said > that he > arrived at the port of Chicago. That got me excited for a while but > after > much research I concluded that must just not be right. I couldn't > find any > immigration port in Chicago, at least at that time. And the story > from my > grandfather was that he did come through Ellis Island. He must have > put > Chicago for some other reason, maybe he didn't know the name of > Ellis Island > where he had landed. Chicago's world fair was in 1893 and so the > city was at > it's best. What a sight it must have been for him. > > Clayton > > ----- Original Message ----- > Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:18:45 -0500 >> From: "TONIA NIELSEN" <toniraye@dishmail.net> >> Subject: Re: [BW] Immigration Records >> To: baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: >> <c8b6fc6f0808150818y285dd748ld0bcccaa5ea90b84@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Jane, if you can find his Declaration of Intent or naturalization >> record, >> it >> might tell you what port he used and when he arrived. >> >> my great great grandfather's declaration of intent listed his birth >> village, >> his birth date, port he left from and when, when he arrived in US. >> Luckily >> he applied for naturalization in the Indiana town where he died, >> so it >> wasn't to hard to find. >> >> Tonia >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BADEN- > WURTTEMBERG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Baden-Wuerttemberg List Friends, We'd like to suggest that any of our BW List members who may be new to genealogy research and/or need basic or step-by-step guidance on topics like immigration to the US, US naturalization (citizenship) of immigrants, passenger arrival and departure record research, US census research and similar topics can more readily and quickly find assistance with these important subjects by subscribing to mailing lists which feature these as their primary focus of discussion. Many separate RootsWeb mailing lists feature these and other topics of interest. As of this writing, there are presently 31,412 such lists. They focus on a myriad of topics, including research in particular countries, foreign areas, American states, on specific individual surnames or ethnic groups, immigration, religion, genealogy software and computing, translations and word meanings, military, heraldry, medical genealogy, royalty and nobility, obituaries, occupations, prisons---you name it, and there is probably a ROOTSWEB list that features it! Also available are lists which focus on various research techniques and advice from many knowledgeable contributors. Remember that anyone may subscribe to and participate on *as many individual mailing lists at one time* as she or he may wish. There is no limit, and all such lists are FREE to users. You can subscribe and unsubscribe (and re-subscribe) to or from any list whenever you like, as often as you like. To access the index of current RootsWeb lists which are available, visit the Web page at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/index.html You will also likely find quite a bit of helpful and detailed information by visiting our Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List ARCHIVES (past messages from many years of this list's operation.) Don't despair if your topic of interest or the answer to a question does not appear on the list currently---be sure to check the archives! :-) *ALL* messages posted on the Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List, *no matter what the topic,* are automatically retained indefinitely on the RootsWeb computer system, where they ultimately can be accessed by *both* list subscribers and members of the public who visit via Rootsweb's Web site. Many of you are new to this list, and/or have indicated your interest in various topics which have been discussed in detail on the mailing list previously. The answers to common research questions such as, "What is a Declaration of Intention?," or "What's the difference between Baden and Baden-Baden?," and "Why are all the males among my German ancestors given the first name of Johann?" (to mention only a few) can be found in the archives. If you missed a recent (or 'vintage') message, or would like to search the archives for a particular name, locality or past subject topic, the message archives of the Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List will be your new best friend. :-) To access the Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List Archives, go to the Web page at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-L/ (PLEASE ENTER THE ABOVE ADDRESS *EXACTLY* AS SHOWN HERE, BEING CAREFUL OF THE SPELLING. :-) ) SEARCHING BY MESSAGE PERIOD At the above site, messages are currently grouped *by month* starting in the year 1997 (with a limited number of earlier messages) and are inclusive of those received to date in the month of August 2008. RootsWeb updates the archives with new messages regularly. Just click with your mouse on the month and year of messages in which you might have interest. - ---------------------------------------------- SEARCHING BY TOPIC You can ALSO do an *interactive search* of the archives for a particular name, surname, locality, contributor or past subject topic at: http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl To access the right data, type BADEN-WURTTEMBERG-L (making sure to enter it *exactly* as spelled here) in the "Name of List" box, and press the Submit Query button. On the next screen that appears, type your query in the box (such as the name, locality, or topic you want to find---e.g., Swabia, emigration, umlauts, German handwriting [or a list member's name whose posts you are looking for, such as Joos, Snediker, Mitschelen, Kittner, Held, et al.], and at the bottom of the page, indicate which year you would like to search (for when the message appeared) by clicking on it. The interactive archive will search messages depending on the year you select. Hope this is useful! With best regards, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List

-----Original Message----- From: Sheri Martin [mailto:elm121147@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 7:59 AM To: mscarlah@earthlink.net; baden-wurttemberg@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BW] Why Ancestors' EMIGRATION Records Might Be Hard to Find (orNon-Existent) :-) I am now in receipt of the "applications to become a citizen" of both of my maternal great grandfathers. One is from 1876 the other from 1880. They both reference the Emperor of Germany. I have read on this list that Germany did not actually exist at that time. Also there is no other information of any assistance in locating the town of origin. Any further suggestions? ===================== Dear Sheri, I think we've managed to create some confusion for you. What you need to understand was that what we know as "Germany" did not always cover the same amount of territory throughout its history, nor was "Germany" always a single, unified nation with a single sovereign ruler. I will attempt to super-condense the historical facts into a nutshell for you, and you can research it further if you are so inclined. For a long part of "Germany's" history, it was it was made up of hundreds of individually sovereign states, each with its own particular ruler (kings, princes, grand dukes, margraves, etc.) These were not united into a single nation until the formation of the German Empire, a semi-constitutional monarchy which came into existence (and along with it the "Emperor of Germany") on 18 January 1871, when the existing king of the German state of Prussia, King Wilhelm I, was proclaimed German Emperor ("Kaiser" in German.) (He and those who followed him on the imperial throne remained King of Prussia while also being Emperor of Germany.) There were only three Emperors of Germany: Wilhelm I (who died in March, 1888), Wilhelm's son Friedrich III (who was ill will terminal cancer and died only 3 months after his accession in June 1888) and Friedrich III's son, Wilhelm II (who was Emperor of Germany from 15 June 1888 until 9 November 1918.) Your problem is that the naturalization or other documents you have which tell you the place of origin for your grandfathers apparently do NOT specify their exact villages, towns or cities of origin WITHIN the overall German Empire or even within the state of Baden or Wuerttemberg or Hohenzollern or wherever else they may have been from. Just knowing that their sovereign was the Emperor of Germany (regardless of which one was reigning at the time) unfortunately does not sufficiently pinpoint your ancestors' specific places of origin. Even knowing that they may have been subjects of say, the King of Wuerttemberg is not going to be too helpful. (Wuerttemberg was a kingdom at the same time there was a German Empire in existence, and again, that still doesn't tell you where in either the kingdom or the empire your ancestors came from---darn it all!) If that is the only documentation you have for those persons, you still do not yet have something which will provide a sufficient clue to their roots in "Germany." Not knowing what other records on them you may have (or not), or what other types of research you may have done, it is difficult to make a reasonable suggestion as to how to might proceed from here. Can you tell us anything else that might be pertinent to these men? Hope we can help you if we have more details, if you have any to share. Best wishes, Carla HELLER, Los Angeles, California USA mscarlah@earthlink.net List Co-Administrator, RootsWeb's Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List