This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/330.1 Message Board Post: I have found my family member! Thanks. Patricia

According to his mother's obit of September 1931, Charles G. BETHUREM lived in Tucson at that time. Charles was married to Isabel (Belle) BETHUREM nee GORDON in April of 1909. Charles BETHUREM died in Tucson on June 17, 1940 [b. Nov. 1870 in KS] Isabel BETHUREM died in Tucson on November 7, 1944 [b. Dec. 1873 in Wisconsin] No children survived to adulthood. I would like your help in locating funeral and burial and any other information on these people. I am trying to get obits on them but I don't know how long it will take. <<Jess BETHUREM, Charles' half brother died somewhere in AZ in Feb. 1970. He was born in KS March of 1889. Maybe you will find his name in old records also.>> BETHUREM is sometimes spelled/transcribed as BETHURUM. Thanks for any help and suggestions for finding information. Eloise Shingle Springs, CA

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Census Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/332 Message Board Post: The USGenWeb Census Project is pleased to announce the completion of the following census transcription. 1880 Pima County, ED 1 http://www.rootsweb.com/~cenfiles/az/pima/1880/ed01/ Abstracted by Jo Cooper Second Transcriber Needed [For more information on Pima County, Arizona, Please visit the Pima County, AZGenWeb page at http://www.azstarnet.com/~jerim/index.html] This transcription was made available due to the dedication and effort of the transcriber(s) and will now benefit researchers everywhere. Other New Additions to the project are online at http://www.rootsweb.com/~cenfiles/nu/index.htm Please visit the USGenWeb Census Project at http://www.rootsweb.com/~census/ if you are interested in transcribing any county of any federal census records. A copy of all transcriptions done for this project are submitted to the appropriate state File Manager for inclusion in the USGenWeb Archives. Sincerely, Maggie Stewart-Zimmerman Coordinator, USGenWeb Census Project http://www.rootsweb.com/~census/

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Brand Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/zU.2ADE/331 Message Board Post: Searching for information about my uncle Robert Cleveland Brand who died in Ajo on Nov. 05, 1898. He was born Nov. 01, 1900 in Grandview, Johnson Co., TX. Looking for an obituary and cemetery information confirming that he is buried in the Ajo Cemetery. I searched the Pima Co., AZGenWeb but didn't find anything. Any help will be appreciated. donna brand dbrand@htcomp.net

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: THOMPSON, SANFORD, CANTRALL Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/330 Message Board Post: I am also a Sanford descendant, and would like to get in contact with Phyllis' children. Phyllis died in 1976. Thank you. Patricia Sanford Brown

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Brown Morgan Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/329 Message Board Post: Any information about this family appreciated. They married in Conecuh County, AL in 1925. Later moved to Mississippi and then to AZ.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/zU.2ADE/281.1 Message Board Post: My mothers birth name was Mary Beth EDWARDS, born in Kansas City MO. She was adopted at an age of about 20 days. No record of her birth can be located. I have a photo and letters indicating her father was in WW I, in Ft. Riley Kansas. Her birth mother, died shortly after her birth. I would be interested in locating any relatives and/or EDWARDS descendants.

I agree with Wilola and have sent a message to NGS, Kurt Witcher, Cyndi Howell & to the St. Louis Genealogical Society, and plan to send more out. You may read what I sent below. Barbara Whittaker Former Volunteer Chair for GENTECH 2003 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilola Follett" <wilola@qwest.net> To: <FHSA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 12:18 PM Subject: [FHSA] The word must go Out! > After the shock we have had in the past few days, it is time to get the > word out. The AgCig officers can't say or do too much other than what > they have done - the letter of response. > > We need to make contact with every genealogist/historian, > society/association that we belong to and then, some we don't belong to. > This needs to be done locally, nationally and even world wide. If this > can happen to us, it can happen to anyone, anywhere. NGS has set a > behavioral pattern that is distasteful and unacceptable to say the > least. > > Some of you have already started and it is hoped that each will make at > least fifteen or twenty contacts. By snail mail, phone calls, e mail or > personally. I noticed there is a list of e mail address put out on this > message board already. We can include the two official letters or give > the web sites where they can be found. I noticed that Ancestry 's > message board today had an article about the merger and has the letter > from NGS for the world to read. Our response needs to be known! > > Mine has begun. I have contacted friends, etc., in AL, OK, UT and in > Northern AZ . Just a few minutes ago I sent a letter to the NGS Board > and the past GenTech Board. Two were returned - Tim Doyle, > tdoyle@doit.com > and Leslie Collier, leslie@flash.net > > No one is going to help us - we have to stand up and help ourselves! > So, let's DO IT! > > Wilola To Interested Genealogists in Southeast AZ: Everyone should know what has happened in regards to GenTech2003. The conference which was to be held in Phoenix, has been canceled for no earthly decent reason. If you cancel something, fine, but don't rub lies and deceit into the cancellation. NGS has blacked our good names which in turn puts a black mark on Arizona's genealogical community.. We need to fight back! We are honest people, We do have integrity. We do want genealogy research to press on. We do want to help others. We do volunteer to help preserve our records/heritage. We do work hard and put in long hours. We do care ó we care about others and we care about the good name of our State. Some of you may have read or heard about the GenTech cancellation. If not, here is the official letter of cancellation and the GENTECH2003 National Conference Chairs response. GENTECH 2003 Cancelled July 31, 2002 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Curt Witcher, President National Genealogical Society Cwitcher@acpl.lib.in.us The GENTECH Division of the National Genealogical Society regrets to announce the cancellation of GENTECH2003, the conference for genealogy and technology scheduled to be held January 16-18, 2003 in Phoenix, Arizona. The National Genealogical Society's GENTECH2003 conference liaisons, Executive Committee, and Board of Directors have affirmed and fully support this action. While extremely regrettable, this action was deemed necessary based on administrative, financial, and logistical complications that were in evidence when NGS became responsible for the conference and that would have imperiled the success of this event. Of the unanticipated problems in the planning and preparation that have arisen, the most disturbing are an extreme lack of standard financial controls and contracts that over-commit the conference. With the conference already over budget and behind schedule, there is not sufficient time remaining to resolve these serious problems. Making the decision to cancel the conference was a difficult one based on a dedication to carry out our duties to the NGS and GENTECH constituencies, as well as the genealogical community at large. NGS and GENTECH want to thank all of the volunteers for their efforts. We know they were numerous and substantial. We will all miss the opportunity to join our fellow genealogists in sunny Phoenix this winter. However, the primary focus for the NGS GENTECH Division is to put on the best conference we can within the budgetary constraints of the current financial environment in which we all live. We would expect the same from any other educational conference for genealogy. We look forward to seeing all of you at the upcoming GENTECH events.Please watch the NGS web site www.NGSGenealogy.org> for more details about the new NGS GENTECH Division as we are committed to seeing that the discipline of family history meets the power of new technology. Curt B. Witcher President, National Genealogical Society NGS - GENTECH2003 - From Phoenix July 31, 2002 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Jeannie Rogers and Rusty Perry, Former GENTECH2003 National Conference Chairs Gentech2003@agcig.org --------------------------- It is deep regret that we must inform you that NGS President Curt Witcher has canceled the GENTECH2003 conference immediately after the NGS-GENTECH merger was final. After nearly a week of waiting for a response, we have finally heard from NGS in response to the information we sent them that they requested. We were waiting to hear about the change in registration price (and reduce the cost to attendees, by striving to increase our attendance, and keeping in the black), as the current price is 33% more than what other conference's charge, and nearly double what NGS normally charges for its national conference. Because we had not heard from NGS this past week, we have lost our window of opportunity to have the brochures printed for the FGS conference, and placing ads in national genealogical magazines. This was crucial to our publicity for attendance, as we had hoped to draw a number of people from our sister state, California. We also received a call yesterday, from the conference hotel stating that Bob Anderson had contacted them over a week ago, and that they had finally made contact with him. He wanted a copy of the signed hotel contract because the one that we had given him in Milwaukee was not signed. The hotel stated that Bob had told them that NGS had merged with GENTECH and that he was an "independent contractor" hired by the president of NGS to take over the conference. That all information and correspondence was to go through him - and that AGCIG was no longer involved. Since there was nothing official from NGS confirming that they had hired an independent contractor, we were contacted and of course, we told the hotel they could fax the contract, but imagine our surprise that AGCIG was no longer involved! (How much does a hired independent contractor cost?) A response was finally sent to us this morning, July 31st, from NGS, Curt Witcher, President National Genealogical Society that boiled down to the last paragraph: "Many individuals have spent enormous amounts of time trying to find common ground in an effort to make the GENTECH03 Conference work. However, we find ourselves at an impasse. Therefore, with the full support of the National Genealogical Society Executive Committee, the NGS Board of Directors, and the NGS GENTECH03 liaisons, I am canceling the GENTECH03 Conference. We are reviewing the recently submitted expenses and will reimburse those that are adequately documented. No further expenditure is authorized. I recognize that many volunteers have given much to this endeavor-and deeply regret the outcome wasn't much more positive." Of course, there are always two sides to every story, and obviously, both sides think they are in the right. The thing that bothers us the most is that in Mr. Witcher's e-mail, he implied that GENTECH2003 volunteers were incompetent, behind schedule, over budget, and were not doing our jobs, directly affecting the bottom line, therefore NGS could not in good conscience go forward. We do not see evidence that the GENTECH Board of Directors (aka the GENTECH Advisory committee) were included or consulted in the NGS decision, which is contrary to the merger agreement. We therefore, cannot in good conscience, let these accusations go unanswered -- i.e.: 1. "...budget you submitted which remains an incomplete document and projects a record number of paid attendees with minimal publicity initiatives" and "... the most disturbing are an extreme lack of standard financial controls ..." . Our reply: We asked NGS for money to advertise in national magazines, and it was under review. We asked them for money for the ezine service, it was under review. We have been waiting for tri-fold brochures, and posters that have been sitting at the printers for weeks waiting for payment. As stated earlier, we are waiting for the go ahead for the printing of the registration brochures, which was ready on July 22 as scheduled. We suggested advertising in local newspapers throughout Arizona, and were told that it was not effective. The referenced budget was 20 pages of detailed items, and projected costs - and it was in the black. It was submitted and approved, by the GENTECH Board of Directors back in January of 2001 in Dallas; a revised version was submitted and approved again January 2002 in Boston. GENTECH's treasurer did not question any items or ask for clarification on any items until a year and a half later when he became candidate for NGS Treasurer and the interim treasurer of the NGS-GENTECH advisory committee. 2. Another point was that the conference "hotel room block was too high" and "...contracts that over-commit the conference". Our reply: At the time that we negotiated the contract, (pre 9-11); we were told we could expect 800-1000 attendees based on previous GENTECH conferences. Going on the assumption that 70% of attendees would be from the local area, we blocked 100 rooms for the first night, 350 for the second (Friday) and 100 for the third night, Saturday. Thirty of those rooms would be for speakers for each night. Our contract commitment was to fill 80% of the rooms in the block and we negotiated a "no cancellation clause" which is unheard of in the industry. We guess that is a judgment call. 3. Finally, the GT03 logo merchandise was an issue, because NGS had not authorized it. Our reply: This was a documented agreement between AGCIG and GENTECH in June 2002 and approved by both AGCIG and the GENTECH Board, prior to the merger with NGS. 4. Were we behind schedule - NO. 5. Were we over budget - NO. Who is right? Probably both sides. We could have been more co-operative and responsive to the email demands for information, and they could have been less demanding at a time when we were trying to get all the program schedule, speaker contracts, registration brochure layout and content, menu's selected, finding local societies to host the 4 luncheons, revamping the website to reflect all these changes, and meeting with different subcommittees at least three times a week, making sure that it was all wrapped up in time to print the registration brochure for FGS. We could take the defensive posture that we were following the guidelines outlined in the GENTECH conference manual. They could take the defensive posture that they were only looking out for NGS, we could have agreed to sign a new contract with NGS, and they could have not withheld funding and stalled the project, but in truth, both sides lost. The most heartbreaking aspect is that we now have to scrap more than 2 years of hard work and planning, the man-hours that all the volunteers have put into this project is astounding. We would say that looking on the bright side, the one good thing that has come out of this conference planning is that Arizona Genealogists - Statewide - formed a coalition, rolled up their sleeves, and worked together. We have all made new friends and found out about organizations, and made the Arizona genealogical community the better for it. The decision to reveal the facts of the GENTECH2003 conference conflict with NGS was a difficult one, but based on our dedication to carry out our duties to the AGCIG and GENTECH constituencies, as well as the AZ genealogical community at large... We will not let our volunteers work be smeared and categorized as mediocre, over budget and behind schedule. When NGS regional conference was here in Arizona 3 years ago, it was in our opinion a disaster. When we committed to the GENTECH Board of Directors, to do GENTECH2003, we were adamant that we would need control to make decisions quickly, to make this conference a success. Shame on us, we believed NGS in the merger talks, when they said it would not happen again, and we were asked to trust the newly revised focus on "this is your society" NGS philosophy. The moment the merger was filed and complete, they canceled the conference; it makes one wonder with all their stalling tactics if they ever intended to go forward with the conference in the first place. Arizona genealogists know the truth about GENTECH2003, they were always kept informed about everything by email, committee work, and meetings, and they knew their target dates, budget and were always on target. There is no doubt in their eyes of what has taken place at their expense. Jeannie and Rusty FORMER GENTECH2003 National Conference Chairs www.agcig.org/gt03 ??????????????????????????? I would think that genealogy is above politics and all the lies that go with it, but evidently not. Please spread the word to all your contacts throughout the country about this injustice. We need to keep our Arizona good name clean and above reproach. Personally, I know the chair persons and a very great majority of the volunteers. They are honest, ethical and have more integrity that most people around. Wilola Follett FHSA, AzGAB, Cochise Genealogical Society, State Archives/Research Library Voluneer, Former GenTech2003 volunteer. Here is a list of the members of the new NGS GENTECH Advisory Committee. > Bob Anderson, proband@attbi.com > Earl Beaty, ecbeaty@attbi.com > Pierre Cloutier, pierrec@progenysoftware.com > Sandy Clunies, Sandy_Clunies@compuserve.com > Cyndi Howells, cyndihow@oz.net > Liz Kerstens, liz@ancestordetective.com > Steve Kyner, kyner@mindspring.com > Joan Kirchman Mitchell, jmitchel@biology.as.ua.edu > Bill Mumford, mumford@mumford.ca > Jim Slade, sladej@swbell.net > Bob Velke, bvelke@whollygenes.com > John Wilbanks, john.wilbanks@GenealogyMine.org > John V. Wylie, John@JohnWylie.com To: "Cyndi Howells" <cyndihow@oz.net>; "'Witcher, Curt'" <Cwitcher@acpl.lib.in.us> Cc: <stlgsmail@primary.net>; <ngs@ngsgenealogy.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:13 PM Subject: Re: GENTECH 2004 in St. Louis, Missouri > Dear NGS, Mr. Witcher & Ms. Howells, > > I am writing to let you know just how very disappointed I am in you, and > your organization for your conduct this last week, and your decision today > to cancel GENTECH 2003 in Phoenix. My job for the last seven months has been > to recruit volunteers to help in the many aspects of putting on a conference > of this magnitude. We had signed up 50 volunteers so far, and that did not > include all the committee chairs. Understandably these hard working > volunteers are now very upset with you and NGS for your betrayal and the > lack of honor in ignoring an agreement made with GENTECH before your merger > occurred. The hours that all of us have spent working to make this a > fantastic conference, and you choose to dismiss all our efforts like > yesterday's dish water with lame unfounded excuses. I would like to warn the > St. Louis Genealogical Society about your unethical practices, and tell them > to watch their backs. Speaking on my behalf, it will be a cold day in > Arizona before I participate in any activity related to NGS. > > Barbara Whittaker > GENTECH 2003 Volunteer Chair To: NGS, Curt Witcher, Bob Anderson, Steve Kyner, and Cindy Howells I, like so many of my fellow volunteers on GENTECH2003, was shocked, dismayed, and disappointed that you and your group elected to cancel the GENTECH2003 conference. Although I was privy to much of what went on between AGCIG and NGS, I will not regurgitate it here. What disturbs me most is the lack of professionalism on your part in finding common ground so that the conference could take place, and even more disturbing, the slanderous press releases to the genealogical community on the heels of a recent defunct conference. What benefit did you hope to receive by slinging mud at a group whose only concern was to put on one of the best and most successful GENTECH conferences ever? (In my opinion, the GENTECH2003 program had outstanding topics and speakers.) Wouldn't it have been enough to say, "We have decided to cancel the conference"? Did you have to go out of your way to smear the reputations of honest, hard-working volunteers with half-truths and lies? I have never seen two people work any harder on a volunteer project than Jeannie Rogers and Rusty Perry, GENTECH2003 Co-Chairs. They are honest and moral women and their integrity is impeccable. To smear them, AGCIG, and all the volunteers in public is unconscionable. What kind of people are you that would do such a thing, certainly no one with whom I would ever want to associate. Canceling this conference not only impacts AGCIG and the thousands of hours that Jeannie and Rusty and all the many volunteers put in, but what about all the speakers who have put countless hours into preparing their presentations? Do you have any idea the impact your decision has on future genealogy conferences? Since your press release, people are already on the genealogy listserves writing and e-mailing how worried they are about signing up for any future genealogy conferences. I have lost respect for you and the NGS organization, and it will be a long time before I ever have anything to do with NGS again. Stephanie Thalman Former GENTECH2003 Publication Chair

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Franks, Fuller Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/327 Message Board Post: Walter S. Franks (1887-1945), location of death unknown, married Birdice Fuller ( C. 1898 - ??), and Mrs. Franks was living in Tucson with her mother as of 1958, the year her mother died. I seek information on Birdice Franks, possible died in Tucson. Was about 60 yrs. of age in 1958. No record in the Social Security Death Index, might have died before 1960 or so.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Jones Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/326 Message Board Post: I am looking for an obituary or any information on Cambridge Jones from Tucson, d. 12/20/1956. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Sullivan Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/325 Message Board Post: I am looking for any info on my great uncle, Hartwell SULLIVAN, b. 26 Nov 1891 d. Apr. 1971. I know he was living in Pima Co when he died. Either in Mission or Tuscon. I would like to find an obit on him if at all possible. His brother, John Wesley Sullivan was my grandad. Thank you for any help possible.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/324 Message Board Post: Does anyone know of a man named Victor Alexander who lived in Tuscon Arizona in the 1920s, 1930s, or 1940s. He was a saddlemaker, cattleman, cowboy, businessman. He was known to have lived there in Tuscon. He was born c1906. I have been looking for his family for years. He said that his fathers name was JO(SEPH) and his mothers name was ANN(A). He said he had a brother named "AL" and a sister named ALDA. I would appreciate any help with this. I live on the east coast and it is impossible for me to go to Arizona. Thank you............Hanna

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: TRANSUE Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/323 Message Board Post: Looking for a newspaper act of kindness. Searching for the obituary for LEVENUS WESLEY TRANSUE. Died in Tucson on 21 April 1981. Born in PA 14 May 1915. I'd be appreciative if you could transcribe obit and email to me. A xerox copy would be super. Please email me at kdbeene@att.net. Thanks.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Bourgo, Cadotte, Cook, Denien, Langford, Lawin, Smith, Stockman Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/322 Message Board Post: Would someone please look up an obituary for Mathilde "Tillie" Bourgo? She died September 22, 1953 in Tuscon. She was my Gr-Gr-Grandmother. I tried to get a copy of her death certificate, but I cannot find all the links to prove she is my relative, and the state will not release it without the evidence. Thank you, TERRY

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: FELDMAN GAULT Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/321 Message Board Post: hi! I am trying to determine if the John FELDMAN who was a resident of Apache Junction when he died on March 26, 1999, is the same John FELDMAN who married a GAULT..... In June of 1960 the John FELDMAN I am looking for resided in Madison Heights, Michigan. His sisters in law had the names of POWERS, STUDHOLME and GREER....... Sally

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: FELDMAN GAULT Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/320 Message Board Post: hi! I am trying to determine if the John FELDMAN who was a resident of Apache Junction when he died on March 26, 1999, is the same John FELDMAN who married a GAULT..... In June of 1960 the John FELDMAN I am looking for resided in Madison Heights, Michigan. His sisters in law had the names of POWERS, STUDHOLME and GREER....... Sally

The Phoenix North Chapter of the FAMILY HISTORY SOCIETY OF ARIZONA In partnership with the Phoenix Arizona North Family History Center Invites you to attend the 3rd Annual Family History Seminar Genealogy for the 21st Century Saturday, September 21, 2002 from 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM Free Seminar - Open to the Public For more information: http://www.fhsa.org/pn_semi.htm --- Using Maps in Genealogy: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~slavicmaps/index.html _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Taylor, Jackson Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/306.1 Message Board Post: Dear Tyrone: Contact the Prison. They will have records and photos of your father due to his incarceration or employment. Kind Regards, Lauren Boyd

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: McHenry, Boyd, O'Loughlin Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/zU.2ADE/319 Message Board Post: I would appreciate it if someone would transcribe the obituary for my neice, Judith Shawn McHenry. I don't know her exact date of death. Cause rumored to be suicide. I am also interested in her death certificate. I found reference to obituary at Rootsweb.com Obiturary Daily Times McHENRY, Judith Shawn; 29; AZ; Tucson Citizen; 2000-9-1; suet She was the youngest daughter of my deceased sister, Lisbeth Ann Boyd O'Loughlin Mc Henry. I appreciate your assistance. Thanks, Lauren Boyd confido@ix.netcom.com

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/zU.2ADE/174.1 Message Board Post: I am trying to find information on a Bertrum / Bertram Wilson attorney in Arizona. There is a listing for one that died in Sun or Tucson, Pima in 1970. Is there any connection with your Bryce? write me at rubyslippers@kc.rr.com Thanks Sharon