This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: DRAGER, CLIFT Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/xU.2ADE/508.2.1 Message Board Post: Hi Valerie - Thank you for your kind words. I'm sure Barbara Johnson is just as happy to help you out as I am and we both hope we'll be able to help you find the answers to your questions. I believe I have some good news for you. If you go the Maricopa County Recorders Office on-line web site, you can view public records that have been recorded back to 1968 to the present. The database is set up in two sections, one for records before 1982 and the other for records from 1982 on. At this time only records from 1991 on are viewable online. However, the database is immensely useful in finding people. And, if you find someone, for a very nominal charge you can purchase a copy of the record from the Recorder. Here is what I've found: Glenn A. DRAGER, copy of military discharge recorded in 1975. Glenn A. and Agnes P. DRAGER filing a homestead in 1974 (this puts them in Arizona at least of this date), both filing a deed in 1981 and releasing a mortgage in 1982 (possibly because of selling the property). Therefore, if you pursue the Phoenix Public Library reference desk for listings on Glenn and Agnes for the years 1974 through 1982 you should develop significant information AND if you purchase any of these records, I would imagine a lot of your questions may be answered. As an example, a military discharge may list next of kin or record of home residence. If he recorded a portion OR all of his service record, you will have found a real "gold mine". I would, if it were me, purchase the military discharge as a minimum acquistion. Also I found other DRAGER surnames that were not in the 1975 metro phone book. First there are two Donald DRAGER's and there are three John DRAGER's broadening the possibility that one of these may be a direct relative. While Barbara mentioned a Donald Robert DRAGER (not in the '75 phone book)(he is married to a Lois L.), you feel that he is not related to Glenn A. and Agnes according to your last post. The Donald L. DRAGER I mentioned in my last post has several recorder listings with his wife Betty A. from 1973 through 1978 (same era for Glenn and Agnes), but then they disappear from most future recordations until 1997 when they convey a parcel of property to a "Joyce A. DRAGER, a unmarried woman". It appears Joyce A. is a daughter of Donald and Betty. Donald and Betty have since moved to Iowa and Joyce (probable daughter) is residing in Chandler (Maricopa). I have been able to find addresses and phone numbers for Donald L. and Joyce A. who may be a granddaughter of ! Glenn A. You can view the 1991 and later DRAGER recorded documents at the website. I can provide the addresses and phone numbers via email if you choose. As to the three John DRAGER's. You felt John G. and Ingrid DRAGER were not related to Glenn A. and Agnes. They have one recordation of a deed in 1976 (again in the era of Glenn A. and Agnes). We cannot tell at this point if this is the "John (NMI) DRAGER" found in the '75 phone book. However, there are several recordations for a John F. DRAGER and wife Joyce beginning in 1973 (deed) through 1977 (release of mortgage). There is also a judgement filed in 1976 against John F. DRAGER and there is a recordation for a John NMI DRAGER in 1973 for a deed. The remaining DRAGER's for which recordations exist prior to 1982 and after 1968 are for a Kenneth W., Richard E. and wife Geraldine M. and William C. and wife Ona G. DRAGER. All those recordations were for property except one for a partnership. I believe Maricopa County Recorders office charges about $1 per page copied, so the expense for some of these records would be quite nominal. All years records from 1968 to the present can be ordered online. Enjoy and Happy Hunting. Glen F. Pritchett, USGENWEB volunteer