This Wiki may help re location of Grougar etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scottish_feudal_barony_of_Grougar Jeanne Bell NZ Sent from my iPad > On 17/12/2015, at 9:00 pm, ayrshire-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire (Mike Boyd) > 2. Re: The Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Indes - (1630-1712 > by Isabella MacLean (Deborah Rea) > 3. Re: Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire (Deborah Rea) > 4. Re: Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire (Loretta Layman) > 5. Re: Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire (Linda) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 18:27:17 +1000 > From: "Mike Boyd" <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> > Subject: Re: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > To: "Linda" <searchinguk@shaw.ca>, "'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com'" > <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <F0845B3951174F2DA280EC88A1E55D62@MichaelPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=original > > This does not help you in its location but the 7th Lord Boyd, Robert Boyd > (1595-1628) "had charters of the barony of Grugar, in Ayrshire, 30 March > 1616, with confirmation under the Great Seal 3 August 1619; ..." > > The Boyds in Ayrshire had land at Kilmarnock - running in a SW to NE > direction through Kilmarnock and section section of land than was in a semi > circle around the Hunter's; Fairlie and Boyle's lands form Portencross to > Largs. > > I have been studying the Boyd for over 30 years, but I have yet to find this > Barony. So if you have not contacted them, I would start with the Burns > Centre Library at Kilmarnock. > > Mike Boyd > > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda via > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 12:46 PM > To: 'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com' > Subject: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > > Dear List Members > I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came across > this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any > understanding of the following? > Thanks, Linda > > The Barony of Grougar is a Scottish feudal barony which lies in north > Ayrshire in the district formerly known as Cunninghame. The earliest known > family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in > the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. > The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, > arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, > Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they > were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment of > the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively > confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the > Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were > barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 > and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ?one of the > king of England?s enemies? in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:58:14 +0000 > From: Deborah Rea <deborah.rea94@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [AYR] The Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Indes - > (1630-1712 by Isabella MacLean > To: Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> > Cc: "AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com" <AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <CAJneOLydvP-FYGhUSWYMJP2QOqh6s3oc01XHg1uOtLeaxZqm7w@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Mike, > > I got this book some months ago and didn't find it useful at all. It is > merely an index. You would have to have all the books at hand to look up > the information and at that point you wouldn't need the index. > > Regards, > Debbie Rea > >> On 16 December 2015 at 02:20, Mike Boyd via <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> Members >> A member of a private group that I am on posted this recently >> >> This is from the book ?The Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Index ? >> (1630-1712), by Isabella MacLean (could not see date of publication). This >> website has four separate pages where Boyds are mentioned. >> >> All the Boyds seem to be dated 1655. I am not sure what other data is >> available from this Index or the references given. Or if there are family >> trees to these individual people. >> I will add this book to my 2016 ?todolist? for when I go to Scotland (not >> sure of timing at this stage), but others might be able to tell tell us >> more about this source and if there are any other books on the Covenanters? >> in this period of Scottish history. >> >> While the below website goes to Boyds, I am sure that others can use it to >> get their own names. At this time it would appear that this is not a full >> Index of Covenanters for this period. >> >> I look forward to your responses. >> >> Mike Boyd >> >> ?I'm sure you have this and probably use it; but just in case, here is a >> Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Index. >> >> >> https://books.google.com/books?id=sTCGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=janet+margaret+geddes+covenanter&source=bl&ots=9xS-LPW3XJ&sig=qR_OrfITh3Skqq-eF39BmERa_bQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLyZHu_9vJAhVM54MKHT_fAPEQ6AEIJDAB#v=onepage&q=Boyd&f=false >> >> many covenanters were prone to migrating?? >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:12:15 +0000 > From: Deborah Rea <deborah.rea94@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > To: Linda <searchinguk@shaw.ca> > Cc: "AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com" <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <CAJneOLzCDo5DHS_gX8BjQAGPjweuqFskgRyaS1nA999WSXRkwg@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Grougar was once in Kilmarnock (and then later in Fenwick after it > separated from Kilmarnock in 1640???). The Wiki article talks about Lord > Loudoun and the Boyds. The Loudouns of Loudoun Castle (situated just above > Galston, Ayrshire) owned vast amounts of land throughout Scotland (and in > England) including Fenwick. The Boyds owned Dean Castle, Kilmarnock. > > Hope this helps. > > Regards, > Debbie Rea > > >> On 16 December 2015 at 02:46, Linda via <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> Dear List Members >> I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came >> across >> this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any >> understanding of the following? >> Thanks, Linda >> >> The Barony of Grougar is a Scottish feudal barony which lies in north >> Ayrshire in the district formerly known as Cunninghame. The earliest known >> family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in >> the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. >> The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, >> arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, >> Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they >> were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment >> of >> the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively >> confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the >> Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were >> barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 >> and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ?one of >> the >> king of England?s enemies? in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 06:08:52 -0500 > From: "Loretta Layman" <Lynneage@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > To: "'Linda'" <searchinguk@shaw.ca> > Cc: AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <00f801d137f2$26dee450$749cacf0$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Linda. Grougar Mains, which presumably was the seat of the 70-acre > barony, is just outside the town of Kilmarnock, less than two kilometers > east of the A77 highway. Go to www.streetmap.co.uk and search for Grougar > Mains. A Wikipedia article at > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverwood,_Ayrshire includes a two-paragraph > description of the barony, one of which states : > > "The Scottish feudal barony of Grougar contained 70 acres of the lands of > Caprickhill, including Holmhead and Miltonmill. In 1742 these lands had > belonged to Thomas Millar and were sold to William Wallace for ?170; in 1811 > the properties were worth ?7,000. Laighmilton also lay in Grougar and in > 1766 its rental was 1s 8d per acre, rising to ?4 per acre in 1811." > > You can see Caprickhill on the above map, just south of Grougar Mains. Zoom > in on Caprickhill, and you'll see Miltonmill just south of that. I don't > see Holmhead or Laighmilton, although the latter may be just Milton today. > Milton lies a bit east-southeast of Milton Mill and beside Grougar Row. > > Loretta > > -----Original Message----- > From: ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Linda via > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:47 PM > To: 'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com' > Subject: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > > Dear List Members > I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came across > this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any > understanding of the following? > Thanks, Linda > > The?Barony of Grougar?is a?Scottish feudal barony?which lies in north > Ayrshire in the district formerly known as?Cunninghame. The earliest known > family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in > the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. > The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, > arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, > Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they > were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment of > the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively > confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the > Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were > barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 > and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ?one of the > king of England?s enemies? in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 16:20:45 -0800 > From: "Linda" <searchinguk@shaw.ca> > Subject: Re: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > To: "'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com'" <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <004601d13860$c6908170$53b18450$@shaw.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Many thanks to Loretta, Mike, Charles and Deb for your replies and help in > my search for Grugar Mains in East Ayrshire. > It has been all been very helpful and today I have learned just that much > more in the search for my early Logan family. With sincere appreciation > for the guidance. > Cheers and all the best to all for a wonderful Christmas Season > Linda Nordby > Researching Ayrshire's families: > Logan, Frew, Love, Yuille, Kilpatrick, McKean Kerr > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Loretta Layman [mailto:Lynneage@comcast.net] > > Hi Linda. Grougar Mains, which presumably was the seat of the 70-acre > barony, is just outside the town of Kilmarnock, less than two kilometers > east of the A77 highway. Go to www.streetmap.co.uk and search for Grougar > Mains. A Wikipedia article at > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverwood,_Ayrshire includes a two-paragraph > description of the barony, one of which states : > > "The Scottish feudal barony of Grougar contained 70 acres of the lands of > Caprickhill, including Holmhead and Miltonmill. In 1742 these lands had > belonged to Thomas Millar and were sold to William Wallace for ?170; in 1811 > the properties were worth ?7,000. Laighmilton also lay in Grougar and in > 1766 its rental was 1s 8d per acre, rising to ?4 per acre in 1811." > > You can see Caprickhill on the above map, just south of Grougar Mains. Zoom > in on Caprickhill, and you'll see Miltonmill just south of that. I don't > see Holmhead or Laighmilton, although the latter may be just Milton today. > Milton lies a bit east-southeast of Milton Mill and beside Grougar Row. > > Loretta > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the AYRSHIRE list administrator, send an email to > AYRSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the AYRSHIRE mailing list, send an email to AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of AYRSHIRE Digest, Vol 10, Issue 130 > *****************************************