Hi Loretta and John, I appreciate both your thoughts on this. John, I really tried to fit what what I was seeing could have been "Haynous" and that would make sense, but in looking at a website re Secretary Hand formation of the letters, I just can't see it. Of course, he may have just misspelled it. Or something Latin, which is beyond me. Re "base met", you interpretation of "base intention" also makes sense (whether or not he had no base intentions :) Some days I just have to go through it as best I can, and then pick it up the next day and view it fresh. That often helps. Loretta, your interpretation certainly makes sense also. Having read a lot in different histories, I know that women have tried all kinds of dangerous substances to terminate a pregnancy in the past, often with tragic results. I'll be interested to see if there's any follow-up in this case before the Kirk Session. Thanks to both of you for your help Jim -------------------------------------------------- From: "Loretta Layman" <lynneage@h-o-l.com> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 5:06 PM To: "'Jim Bundy'" <jbundy48@verizon.net>; "'Rootsweb Ayrshire'" <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> Subject: RE: [AYR] Kilmarnock Kirk Session Minutes, note 65 > Hi Jim. It sounds that way to me. The closest word to "dentes" in the > Scots Dictionary is "dent," which means either "a mouldy smell" or "tough > clay or soft claystone." I don't think Maren ate dirt exactly, but the > dictionary also says "dent" originated with an English word which meant > "sooty coal." If the toxicity of inhaled coal dust was known in 1653, I > wonder if Maren was hoping that ingesting it would be toxic to the child. > Being carbon, coal would probably be inert if ingested, but desperate > people > sometimes grasp at straws. > > -----Original Message----- > From: ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Jim Bundy > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:29 PM > To: Rootsweb Ayrshire > Subject: [AYR] Kilmarnock Kirk Session Minutes, note 65 > > Hi Listers, > > I have a question re this page: > > Am I correct in thinking that Maren was trying to abort the chyld? And > that > "Baynous tabis" was a kind of Latin legal term for this offence? > > Jim Bundy > > > ... Maren Neill being delate & sumondit for fornicaon wt Johne Smyth > compeired confessing that she was wt chyld to the sd Johne Smyth And that > she took some dentes to put back the child, bot yt Johne Smith had no base > met, the session finding her sine Baynous tabis her censure to > consideration > In the meantime recommend her to diverse elders to be spoken to > effectually > for being ing of hir to the sense of hir sine >

You're very welcome Jim. A fresh look after setting a thing aside for awhile is often very helpful to me as well. Anyway, just for the heck of it, I did a simple Google search for "baynous" and got a number of interesting results (other than results for "Bay Nous" - whatever that is). They are very interesting but do not resolve the question. In each case, it appears the word was actually "haynous" in the text and was misread somewhere in the transition to internet searches. I seem to remember reading that Secretary Hand evolved over time and on occasion was mixed with ordinary handwriting. I wonder if something of that nature has happened here. In the minutes, how does the letter "h" appear in words which are unmistakably identifiable? For your interest, here are three contexts in which "baynous" (haynous) is found. "... determined to follow hyr aduise in the execution of so baynous an acte" from Shakespeare's "MacBeth" "... lett mee have the just Rewarde ffor this my baynous Cryme ..." From "Notes and Queries," 8th Series, 4th Volume (1893) "... it did baynous violence On that fayre ymage ..." from Spenser's "Faerie Queene" (1758) "... most detestable, horrid, baynous, and abominable ..." from Corbett's "Complete Collection of State Trials, etc." Vol. VI (1811) In each case, it seems the letter "h" was just a little less open on the bottom than the "h" in adjacent words. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bundy Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:08 PM To: 'Rootsweb Ayrshire' Subject: Re: [AYR] Kilmarnock Kirk Session Minutes, note 65 Hi Loretta and John, I appreciate both your thoughts on this. John, I really tried to fit what what I was seeing could have been "Haynous" and that would make sense, but in looking at a website re Secretary Hand formation of the letters, I just can't see it. Of course, he may have just misspelled it. Or something Latin, which is beyond me. Re "base met", you interpretation of "base intention" also makes sense (whether or not he had no base intentions :) Some days I just have to go through it as best I can, and then pick it up the next day and view it fresh. That often helps. Loretta, your interpretation certainly makes sense also. Having read a lot in different histories, I know that women have tried all kinds of dangerous substances to terminate a pregnancy in the past, often with tragic results. I'll be interested to see if there's any follow-up in this case before the Kirk Session. Thanks to both of you for your help Jim -------------------------------------------------- From: "Loretta Layman" <lynneage@h-o-l.com> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 5:06 PM To: "'Jim Bundy'" <jbundy48@verizon.net>; "'Rootsweb Ayrshire'" <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> Subject: RE: [AYR] Kilmarnock Kirk Session Minutes, note 65 > Hi Jim. It sounds that way to me. The closest word to "dentes" in the > Scots Dictionary is "dent," which means either "a mouldy smell" or "tough > clay or soft claystone." I don't think Maren ate dirt exactly, but the > dictionary also says "dent" originated with an English word which meant > "sooty coal." If the toxicity of inhaled coal dust was known in 1653, I > wonder if Maren was hoping that ingesting it would be toxic to the child. > Being carbon, coal would probably be inert if ingested, but desperate > people > sometimes grasp at straws. > > -----Original Message----- > From: ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Jim Bundy > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:29 PM > To: Rootsweb Ayrshire > Subject: [AYR] Kilmarnock Kirk Session Minutes, note 65 > > Hi Listers, > > I have a question re this page: > > Am I correct in thinking that Maren was trying to abort the chyld? And > that > "Baynous tabis" was a kind of Latin legal term for this offence? > > Jim Bundy > > > ... Maren Neill being delate & sumondit for fornicaon wt Johne Smyth > compeired confessing that she was wt chyld to the sd Johne Smyth And that > she took some dentes to put back the child, bot yt Johne Smith had no base > met, the session finding her sine Baynous tabis her censure to > consideration > In the meantime recommend her to diverse elders to be spoken to > effectually > for being ing of hir to the sense of hir sine > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message