Dear Jocelyn, Canmore (Historic Environment Scotland) have collections of photos and details of buildings on their website. You can search by map and list and then filter the results (not always easy to use). Sometimes they photograph buildings prior to demolition. Not everything they have has been scanned and put online as they have a large collection including architectural drawings and plans. https://canmore.org.uk/ Some examples View of Rankin & Borland, Chemists & Druggists shop front (1954) King St, Kilmarnock: https://canmore.org.uk/collection/1545477 Kilmarnock, Elmbank Avenue, St Columba's Roman Catholic Primary School (prior to demolition): https://canmore.org.uk/site/201338/kilmarnock-elmbank-avenue-st-columbas-roman-catholic-primary-school?display=image&images_page=1 Happy hunting, Kay Edinburgh

I had family living in Bonnington Place and that disappeared in the 50's but I did take photos of the buildings in the main Street because they would have been similar in style as they had remained from the 1800's. Can't put my hand on them right now as they would be on a CD somewhere because I had my first digital camera in 2003. Cheers Chris -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Boyd" <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 9:07 AM To: <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> Subject: [AYR] Re: 2 and 6 Kings road, Kilmarnock > Jocelyn > That might be a question to ask of the Burns Centre local Studies Library. > While I have not looked at any photos, I am sure that they have some. > > Mike Boyd > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary/ Jocelyn Harrold > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 2:30 AM > To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AYR] 2 and 6 Kings road, Kilmarnock > > Back in the 1800’s my great great grandfather had a Bookseller and > Printing shop at 2 and 6 Kings Road, Kilmarnock. I know the buildings are > gone, but does anyone in this group have access to old photographs? I > think the buildings were destroyed in the 1950’s or 1960’s. > > Or who would I contact to find some? The company was D. Brown & Company. > > Thank you for direction > > Jocelyn > >

Jocelyn That might be a question to ask of the Burns Centre local Studies Library. While I have not looked at any photos, I am sure that they have some. Mike Boyd -----Original Message----- From: Gary/ Jocelyn Harrold Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 2:30 AM To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [AYR] 2 and 6 Kings road, Kilmarnock Back in the 1800’s my great great grandfather had a Bookseller and Printing shop at 2 and 6 Kings Road, Kilmarnock. I know the buildings are gone, but does anyone in this group have access to old photographs? I think the buildings were destroyed in the 1950’s or 1960’s. Or who would I contact to find some? The company was D. Brown & Company. Thank you for direction Jocelyn

I assume you mean King Street, Kilmarnock.  6 is now a mobile phone shop.  Afraid I don't have any photos but I lived  off Dean Road in the late 70s early 80s.  Just wish I knew then that my husband's great grand father lived in the town in the late 19th century. Nuala On 20/03/2018 16:30, Gary/ Jocelyn Harrold wrote: > Back in the 1800’s my great great grandfather had a Bookseller and Printing shop at 2 and 6 Kings Road, Kilmarnock. I know the buildings are gone, but does anyone in this group have access to old photographs? I think the buildings were destroyed in the 1950’s or 1960’s. > > Or who would I contact to find some? The company was D. Brown & Company. > > Thank you for direction > > Jocelyn > >

Back in the 1800’s my great great grandfather had a Bookseller and Printing shop at 2 and 6 Kings Road, Kilmarnock. I know the buildings are gone, but does anyone in this group have access to old photographs? I think the buildings were destroyed in the 1950’s or 1960’s. Or who would I contact to find some? The company was D. Brown & Company. Thank you for direction Jocelyn

Hello John Is it possible that the burial reads Ardrossan Churchyard? Considering the double letter “s” as it was written in the day for Ardrossan. May look like Asylum? Cheers Linda Sent from my iPad > On Mar 20, 2018, at 2:12 AM, Heather Grimwood <heather.grimwood@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > If person had no relatives or they didn't take body to home parish they were buried at poorhouse. Maybe the body of a typhus victim was not allowed to be shifted or relatives didn't want to touch. Best wishes ....Heather in VERY hot Dunedin New Zealand >> On 20 March 2018 at 19:35 Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: >> >> >> John and list >> >> I am not familiar with where he was buried – ASYLUM (?) Saltcoats. >> >> As he had Typhus Fever, was he in quarantine, and did they bury him in the grounds? >> >> Mike Boyd >> >> From: Dorothy Caldwell >> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2018 12:13 AM >> To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com ; LINDA NORDBY >> Cc: Mike Boyd >> Subject: Re: [AYR] Re: AYR: [SCT-RENFREW] Anyone researching any Boyd families >> >> Thank you Linda, >> >> I too have the marriage certificate for John Kean and Grace Mclelland. I also have the death certificate for William Kean cotton weaver >> widower 18 April 1859 at Raise St. Saltcoats, Ayr. Male 73 years old Parents name William Kean Agricultural Labourer Deceased, Jean Kean maiden name Armstrong Deceased Died of Typhus Fever 12 Days as certified by J. R. Brown M.D. who saw deceased on 18 April 1859. Buried at Asylum ? Saltcoats as certified by avid Raeside Joiner .William Kean nephew Registered 23 April 1859 Saltcoats Charles Marshall Registrar >> >> >> On March 16, 2018 at 3:01 AM LINDA NORDBY <searchinguk@shaw.ca> wrote: >> >> >>

If person had no relatives or they didn't take body to home parish they were buried at poorhouse. Maybe the body of a typhus victim was not allowed to be shifted or relatives didn't want to touch. Best wishes ....Heather in VERY hot Dunedin New Zealand > On 20 March 2018 at 19:35 Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > > John and list > > I am not familiar with where he was buried – ASYLUM (?) Saltcoats. > > As he had Typhus Fever, was he in quarantine, and did they bury him in the grounds? > > Mike Boyd > > From: Dorothy Caldwell > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2018 12:13 AM > To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com ; LINDA NORDBY > Cc: Mike Boyd > Subject: Re: [AYR] Re: AYR: [SCT-RENFREW] Anyone researching any Boyd families > > Thank you Linda, > > I too have the marriage certificate for John Kean and Grace Mclelland. I also have the death certificate for William Kean cotton weaver > widower 18 April 1859 at Raise St. Saltcoats, Ayr. Male 73 years old Parents name William Kean Agricultural Labourer Deceased, Jean Kean maiden name Armstrong Deceased Died of Typhus Fever 12 Days as certified by J. R. Brown M.D. who saw deceased on 18 April 1859. Buried at Asylum ? Saltcoats as certified by avid Raeside Joiner .William Kean nephew Registered 23 April 1859 Saltcoats Charles Marshall Registrar > > > On March 16, 2018 at 3:01 AM LINDA NORDBY <searchinguk@shaw.ca> wrote: > > >

John and list I am not familiar with where he was buried – ASYLUM (?) Saltcoats. As he had Typhus Fever, was he in quarantine, and did they bury him in the grounds? Mike Boyd From: Dorothy Caldwell Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2018 12:13 AM To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com ; LINDA NORDBY Cc: Mike Boyd Subject: Re: [AYR] Re: AYR: [SCT-RENFREW] Anyone researching any Boyd families Thank you Linda, I too have the marriage certificate for John Kean and Grace Mclelland. I also have the death certificate for William Kean cotton weaver widower 18 April 1859 at Raise St. Saltcoats, Ayr. Male 73 years old Parents name William Kean Agricultural Labourer Deceased, Jean Kean maiden name Armstrong Deceased Died of Typhus Fever 12 Days as certified by J. R. Brown M.D. who saw deceased on 18 April 1859. Buried at Asylum ? Saltcoats as certified by avid Raeside Joiner .William Kean nephew Registered 23 April 1859 Saltcoats Charles Marshall Registrar On March 16, 2018 at 3:01 AM LINDA NORDBY <searchinguk@shaw.ca> wrote:

I have a certificate of marriage for John Kean and Grace Mclellan 21 May 1883 at New St. Stevenston, Ayr. John Kean Stoker Dynamite Works Bachelor age 46 parents William Kean Handloom Weaver Deceased and Margaret Kean Maiden Name Boyd Deceased Grace Mclellan Widow age 42 parents Hugh Mclellan Coal Miner Deceased and Grace Mclellan Maiden Name Shaw Deceased Joseph Forrest Minister Stevenston Witnesses Robert Miller and Maggie Logan Register 24 May 1883 Stevenston John Dickie Registrar Death Certificate of William Kean Cotton Weaver Widower 18 April 1859 4 Hours !0 Minutes P.M. Raise St. Saltcoats, Ayr. Male age 73 years Parents William Kean Agricultural Labourer Deceased and Jean Kean Maiden Name Armstrong Deceased Cause Typus Fever 12 days as cert. by J. R. Brown M.D. who saw deceased on 18 April 1859 buried Asylum Saltcoats as cert. by David Raeside Joiner Informant William Kean Nephew Register 23 April 1859 Saltcoats Charles Marshall Registrar > On March 15, 2018 at 4:38 PM Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > John are your birth and death dates correct? Or is one out a 100 years? > > 1. Have you been in contact with the North Ayrshire Local Studies Library at Irvine? They should be able to do a quick look up on the various cemeteries in Ardrossan for your. > > And once we get the dates sorted out – others will be ale to help with other sources for those events as well? > > I understand that during the 1846 – 1850’s Irish Potato Famine, quite a lot of Irish came to the Stevenston – Ardrossan area of North Ayrshire. But if they were married in 1883, it would seem that this migration took place after that time. So what information is available on their marriage certificate of 1883? > > And what relation were they? This will also help to find data. > > I have copied this to the Ayrshire list as both Stevenston and Ardrosson are in that County, so hte people on that list will be able to help you more than the Renfrewshire Net list. > > > Mike Boyd > > From: Dorothy Caldwell > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:51 AM > To: sct-renfrew@rootsweb.com ; Mike Boyd > Subject: Re: [SCT-RENFREW] Anyone researching any Boyd families > > my name is John Caldwell from Manchester, Ct. U. S.A. I have a Margaret Boyd that was married to William Kean with a son > John Kean that was married to Grace McLellan on 21 May 1883 in Stevenston, Ayr. Scotland. I can't seem to find any information > on Margaret or her husband William. Both of them I think were born in Ireland and died in Ardrossan, Ayr. around 1853 to 1859. > If you have any infor on them it would be appreciated > > Thank you John > > > On March 7, 2018 at 4:49 PM Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > >

Hi Linda, Yes Grace was married twice, 1st to John Wallace born on 29 Oct. 1826 in Dunlop, Ayr. married Grace on 13 August 1858 in Stevenston, Ayr. and died on 16 Oct. 1881 in Stevenston, Ayr. listed as a Pitheadman, Colliery Died of Chronic Bronchitis, General Debility 6 Months. 2nd to John Kean born about 1835 in Saltcoats Died 4 Nov. 1903 at Cunningham Combination Poor House in Irvine, Ayr. listed as Army Pensioner died of Gastro-Enteritis > On March 15, 2018 at 5:57 PM LINDA NORDBY <searchinguk@shaw.ca> wrote: > > > Hello to John Caldwell, > > I have at some point accessed the marriage image for John Kean and Grace > Mclelland, I do have information on the McLellands of Stevenston should you require anything, I may be able to help. This is a second marriage for Grace Mclelland, her husbandJohn Wallace died following the 1881 census. I recall that I wondered at the time if John Kean was related to the McKeans of Stevenston which are of my family line. > > I can have a look and see if I can help on the parents of John Kean. > > Best regard, > Linda Nordby > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 2:39 PM, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > > > John are your birth and death dates correct? Or is one out a 100 years? > > > > 1. Have you been in contact with the North Ayrshire Local Studies Library at Irvine? They should be able to do a quick look up on the various cemeteries in Ardrossan for your. > > > > And once we get the dates sorted out – others will be ale to help with other sources for those events as well? > > > > I understand that during the 1846 – 1850’s Irish Potato Famine, quite a lot of Irish came to the Stevenston – Ardrossan area of North Ayrshire. But if they were married in 1883, it would seem that this migration took place after that time. So what information is available on their marriage certificate of 1883? > > > > And what relation were they? This will also help to find data. > > > > I have copied this to the Ayrshire list as both Stevenston and Ardrosson are in that County, so hte people on that list will be able to help you more than the Renfrewshire Net list. > > > > > > Mike Boyd > > > > From: Dorothy Caldwell > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:51 AM > > To: sct-renfrew@rootsweb.com ; Mike Boyd > > Subject: Re: [SCT-RENFREW] Anyone researching any Boyd families > > > > my name is John Caldwell from Manchester, Ct. U. S.A. I have a Margaret Boyd that was married to William Kean with a son > > John Kean that was married to Grace McLellan on 21 May 1883 in Stevenston, Ayr. Scotland. I can't seem to find any information > > on Margaret or her husband William. Both of them I think were born in Ireland and died in Ardrossan, Ayr. around 1853 to 1859. > > If you have any infor on them it would be appreciated > > > > Thank you John > > > >> On March 7, 2018 at 4:49 PM Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > >> > >

Hi Louise, I have the certificate of marriage and the certificate of death for William in 18 April 1859 in Saltcoats, Ayr. I have a census report for 1841 under Margaret Kean that has John on it listed age 13. I will look up the 1851 census for John. Thank you for the reply John Caldwell > On March 15, 2018 at 7:40 PM Louise Gibson <louise2tas@bigpond.com> wrote: > > > Ayrshire List, Mike Boyd and John Caldwell > > I am not on the Renfrew List thus I cannot see if there were any replies, but from > a quick search on Scotland's People, I found the following: > > John Kean and Grace McLellan did marry in Stevenston in 1883 > > There is a family of William and Margaret Kean, with a number of children (but no John), > in the 1851 census in Ardrossan > There are no burials in the OPR for Ardrossan from 1851 - 1855 for the surname Kean, nor > are there any relevant statutory deaths in Ardrossan for a Wm or Margaret Kean from 1855-1861 > > There is a 32 year gap between this couple in 1851, and John Kean's marriage in 1883, and > thus there is no obvious connection between John Kean, and Wm and Mgt Kean, at this time. > If the line being researched is John and Grace Kean, then the only way to go is to buy the > marriage certificate for John Kean and Grace McLellan, and work backwards from the > information on that, as this certificate will have full details of both sets of parents > and their occupations, and this John can then be followed backwards on the census. > > Via ScotlandsPeople, this marriage certificate will cost 6 credits = £1.4 = US$1.97 An > incredibly small amount of money !! > Here in Tasmania, we pay AUS$50.00 for one certificate dated after 1900. > > Louise Gibson > Burnie > Tasmania in OZ > > On 16/03/2018 7:38 AM, ayrshire-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > ate: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 06:38:17 +1000 From: Mike Boyd<mikejboyd@bigpond.com> Subject: > > [AYR] Re: [SCT-RENFREW] Anyone researching any Boyd families - Margaret Boyd & William > > Kean To: Dorothy Caldwell<ncjcaldwell@cox.net>, > > <sct-renfrew@rootsweb.com>,<AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: > > <F83DC438012F4CE0B86DB3B3A4075302@MichaelPC> Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="utf-8" > > > > John are your birth and death dates correct? Or is one out a 100 years? > > > > 1. Have you been in contact with the North Ayrshire Local Studies Library at Irvine? > > They should be able to do a quick look up on the various cemeteries in Ardrossan for > > your. > > > > And once we get the dates sorted out – others will be ale to help with other sources > > for those events as well? > > > > I understand that during the 1846 – 1850’s Irish Potato Famine, quite a lot of Irish > > came to the Stevenston – Ardrossan area of North Ayrshire. But if they were married in > > 1883, it would seem that this migration took place after that time. So what > > information is available on their marriage certificate of 1883? > > > > And what relation were they? This will also help to find data. > > > > I have copied this to the Ayrshire list as both Stevenston and Ardrosson are in that > > County, so hte people on that list will be able to help you more than the Renfrewshire > > Net list. > > > > > > Mike Boyd > > > > From: Dorothy Caldwell Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:51 AM > > To:sct-renfrew@rootsweb.com ; Mike Boyd Subject: Re: [SCT-RENFREW] Anyone researching > > any Boyd families > > > > my name is John Caldwell from Manchester, Ct. U. S.A. I have a Margaret Boyd that was > > married to William Kean with a son John Kean that was married to Grace McLellan on 21 > > May 1883 in Stevenston, Ayr. Scotland. I can't seem to find any information on Margaret > > or her husband William. Both of them I think were born in Ireland and died in > > Ardrossan, Ayr. around 1853 to 1859. If you have any infor on them it would be > > appreciated > > > > Thank you John >

Thank you Linda, I too have the marriage certificate for John Kean and Grace Mclelland. I also have the death certificate for William Kean cotton weaver widower 18 April 1859 at Raise St. Saltcoats, Ayr. Male 73 years old Parents name William Kean Agricultural Labourer Deceased, Jean Kean maiden name Armstrong Deceased Died of Typhus Fever 12 Days as certified by J. R. Brown M.D. who saw deceased on 18 April 1859. Buried at Asylum ? Saltcoats as certified by avid Raeside Joiner .William Kean nephew Registered 23 April 1859 Saltcoats Charles Marshall Registrar > On March 16, 2018 at 3:01 AM LINDA NORDBY <searchinguk@shaw.ca> wrote: > > Greetings to all, > I have the certificate image for the marriage of John Kean and Grace McLelland. I am happy to share it with the Caldwell family. > > 615/8 Stevenston Ayrshire > John Keen is a stoker at the dynamite works, age 46 yrs and a bachelor. > Grace McLelland is aged 42 yrs and both are living on New Street, Stevenston. Both signed. Witnesses: Robert Miller and Maggie Logan > Parents named as Hugh McLelland, Coal Miner and Grace McLelland, maiden surname Shaw. (Both deceased) > Parents for John Keen named as William Kean, hand loom weaver and Margaret Kean, maiden surname Boyd. (Both deceased) > Registered in Stevenston May 24, 1883. > > Also, I think there may be a death record for William Kean who died on Raise St, Ardrossan 1859. He is noted as a widow and informant is nephew William Kean nephew. Possibly the nephew named in the 51 census living with the family age 20 yrs. Upon the death of father William, he is noted as widowed (no spouse named) parents named but mothers name not very legible. I am happy to forward to you John > > 1859 > 1859 KEAN, WILLIAM (Statutory registers Deaths 576/ 45) > All the best, > Linda Nordby > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > found a death for father > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Louise Gibson <louise2tas@bigpond.com mailto:louise2tas@bigpond.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ayrshire List, Mike Boyd and John Caldwell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not on the Renfrew List thus I cannot see if there were any replies, but from > > > > > > > > a quick search on Scotland's People, I found the following: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John Kean and Grace McLellan did marry in Stevenston in 1883 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a family of William and Margaret Kean, with a number of children (but no John), in the 1851 census in Ardrossan > > > > > > > > There are no burials in the OPR for Ardrossan from 1851 - 1855 for the surname Kean, nor are there any relevant statutory deaths in Ardrossan for a Wm or Margaret Kean from 1855-1861 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a 32 year gap between this couple in 1851, and John Kean's marriage in 1883, and thus there is no obvious connection between John Kean, and Wm and Mgt Kean, at this time. If the line being researched is John and Grace Kean, then the only way to go is to buy the marriage certificate for John Kean and Grace McLellan, and work backwards from the information on that, as this certificate will have full details of both sets of parents and their occupations, and this John can then be followed backwards on the census. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Via ScotlandsPeople, this marriage certificate will cost 6 credits = £1.4 = US$1.97 An incredibly small amount of money !! > > > > > > > > Here in Tasmania, we pay AUS$50.00 for one certificate dated after 1900. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Louise Gibson > > > > > > > > Burnie > > > > > > > > Tasmania in OZ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 16/03/2018 7:38 AM, ayrshire-request@rootsweb.com mailto:ayrshire-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ate: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 06:38:17 +1000 From: Mike Boyd<mikejboyd@bigpond.com mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com > Subject: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [AYR] Re: [SCT-RENFREW] Anyone researching any Boyd families - Margaret Boyd & William > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kean To: Dorothy Caldwell<ncjcaldwell@cox.net mailto:ncjcaldwell@cox.net >, <sct-renfrew@rootsweb.com mailto:sct-renfrew@rootsweb.com >,<AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com mailto:AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <F83DC438012F4CE0B86DB3B3A4075302@MichaelPC> Content-Type: text/plain; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > charset="utf-8" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John are your birth and death dates correct? Or is one out a 100 years? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Have you been in contact with the North Ayrshire Local Studies Library at Irvine? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They should be able to do a quick look up on the various cemeteries in Ardrossan for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And once we get the dates sorted out – others will be ale to help with other sources > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for those events as well? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand that during the 1846 – 1850’s Irish Potato Famine, quite a lot of Irish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > came to the Stevenston – Ardrossan area of North Ayrshire. But if they were married in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1883, it would seem that this migration took place after that time. So what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > information is available on their marriage certificate of 1883? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what relation were they? This will also help to find data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have copied this to the Ayrshire list as both Stevenston and Ardrosson are in that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > County, so hte people on that list will be able to help you more than the Renfrewshire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Net list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Boyd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Dorothy Caldwell Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:51 AM To:sct-renfrew@rootsweb.com mailto:sct-renfrew@rootsweb.com ; Mike Boyd Subject: Re: [SCT-RENFREW] Anyone researching > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any Boyd families > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my name is John Caldwell from Manchester, Ct. U. S.A. I have a Margaret Boyd that was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > married to William Kean with a son John Kean that was married to Grace McLellan on 21 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May 1883 in Stevenston, Ayr. Scotland. I can't seem to find any information on Margaret > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or her husband William. Both of them I think were born in Ireland and died in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ardrossan, Ayr. around 1853 to 1859. If you have any infor on them it would be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you John > > > > > > > > > > >

Sorry for my poor selection of sample names - "Smith and Jones" not being the best example of Scottish names - they were the first two names that popped into my heads when I started writing. I have the book "The Clan Almanac" by Charles MacLean, 1990, which list "The Chief of Clans and Names in Scotland". It is about 4 pages of Chief's names and from a very quick look (and perhaps very ill informed GUESS) about half of these names would be lowland families/Clans. Of the Ayrshire "families" that I can see are - Boyd, Boyle, Cathcart, Fergusson, Hunter, Kennedy, Kerr, Lockhart, Montgomery, and Wallace. I also suspect that these Clans/Families had lands in other parts of Scotland as well. And I can also see a number of Border Clans/Families as well in this list. In the 1980's when people were wanting to form a "Boyd Society" and as the Chief of the Boyds, Lord Kilmarnock, said he would rather they use "HOUSE" instead of 'CLAN", yet he was a member of the Standing Chief's of Scotland. So instead of becoming the "Clan Boyd Society", we became "The House of Boyd Society", but we still regard ourselves an an Scottish Clan of over 900 years. I do know that the divide between Highland and Lowland is hotly debated - but these days do you call all Scottish names a Clan rather than divide it between Clan or one area and House for another area of Scotland. Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust. -----Original Message----- From: Louise Gibson Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 4:37 PM To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com ; Mike Boyd Subject: Re:[AYR] Source for telling when Clan your name belongs to Hello Mike I have become suspicious of the modern listings,and by modern, I mean after about 1990 and the introduction of the Internet. I use my surname as an example: Gibson, a Lowlands names, has been put into the Buchanan Clan, and that was so at least before the 1930's and well into the 1980's. When I search online nowadays, I find Gibson is listed in Buchanan, but is also listed in the Campbell clan.... how come ??? It was always in Buchanan. Some online websites have Gibson just in Buchanan, but a number now add Campbell. Is it a case of ...someone put it into Campbell on an online site, and "its online we'll just copy it" ? Another family name I have, McKirdy, is also a Lowlands name, peculiar to Bute and Ayrshire, and it goes into the Stewart clan, and within that clan, this needs to be specified, that the line is "Stewart of Bute" In testing others of my family surnames, such as Bower, most probably an anglicized form of the German surname "Bauer" has been slotted into Clan Sinclair on <https://www.houseoftartan.co.uk/scottish/searchsurname.asp> I feel that, in pushing all things Scottish, and trying to fit every surname into a clan, the whole thing has gone completely overboard, and is fast losing credibility My reference for all things clan and tartans is the 1953 edition of Robert Bain's book "The Clans and Tartans of Scotland", however, I do realize that there are a plethora of new tartans now available, and there are even several for "Louise of Lorne", and one for Princess Louise !!! By the way "Jones" is pure Welsh, as is "Williams" and I would suggest "Smith" being very English, therefore I cannot see how they could fit into any clan listings. As to where YOU go for a definitive and accurate listing, I would not be game to make any suggestions regarding ANY online sources anymore. I realize this sounds very cynical,.... but researching family history online tends to make one very wary these days. Louise Gibson Burnie Tasmania in OZ On 16/03/2018 11:05 AM, ayrshire-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 10:05:33 +1000 > From: Mike Boyd<mikejboyd@bigpond.com> > Subject: [AYR] Source for telling when Clan your name belongs to > To:<AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <BBB9AA371FC4485CA1B687BA5B827CD7@MichaelPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have been manning Clan tents since 2009, and one of the questions that I > have yet to find any source for is when someone comes along and says my > name is “Smith” or “Jones” and what Clan do I belong to. > > While over the years I have bought a number of books on Scottish Clan and > they normally at the back have a list of a few hundred family names that > tell you are part of clan Hamilton, Gordon, etc. > > So how can you find out if “your name” is Scottish or not? > >>From other people manning other Clan tents, I have been told that there >>are some 17,000 Scottish names, but I have never seen any source of these. > > So does anyone know of any book or website that might be used as a > reference. > > I have often told people to look at the Tartan History or Museum site – > but I have never had any feed back as if that provides the answer or not. > > I am a member of the Scottish Group of the Genealogical Society of > Queensland and last week I suggested to our Secretary that over time we > might be able to develop and website – if one has not already been > developed – to allow people to get an answer to this question. This group > will now not meet until early May. > > Thank you > > Mike Boyd > Brisbane, Aust.

Me too, can see postings again. Jenelle. -----Original Message----- From: Deborah Rea [mailto:deborah.rea94@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 10:00 PM To: AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com Subject: [AYR] Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? I am getting everyone's replies. Regards Debbie Rea On Fri, 16 Mar 2018, 11:51 Bill Davidson, <williamhkdavidson@gmail.com> wrote: > Now that is a surprise, I can reach you via reply. There seems to be > only two or three regulars that can post and you are the most common. > > bill > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 19:22, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Bill > It is quite strange, I am non 6 rootsweb.com sites. five location, > which have returned and one named - Boyd@rootsweb.com - but for the > last week or 10 days nothing from that. Hopefully other named list are working. > > I know that different list are on different servers, so that might be > the problem and the Boyd net list is on the one that decided it was > not going to work. > > Mike Boyd > > -----Original Message----- From: Bill Davidson > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 8:47 AM > To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AYR] Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? > > Hi Mike, > > The Rootsweb site says they are back but they don’t seem to be working. > I’ve tried 2 different emails neither work. I’m hoping this gets to > you via reply. > > They had a website helper saying if your email does not work visit > this Rootsweb affiliate and for $5 we’ll help you fix it. > > http://home.rootsweb.ancestry.com/listindexes/ > > Bill > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 17:33, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Do any members know if the named lists are back up yet? > > I am on five location lists and they are back, but the Boyd named list > does not yet seem to be working. So does this apply to other named > net list? > > Mike Boyd > Brisbane, Aust. > > > > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com

The whole clan thing was invented by Sir Walter Scott for the visit of the Prince Regent to Scotland, the first time a monarch had been back since the Union of the Crowns. Sir Walter wove a romantic view of Scotland the carried down to Queen Victoria and the current Royal Family. Lowland Scots do not have clans as most landowning Scots descended from Norman/Flemish/Breton invaders - Sir William Wallace for one. He is supposedly the scion of a Flemish family that settled in Scotland (William the Conqueror married Matilda  of Flanders). So if your name is Montgomery, Fraser, Beaton, Balliol, Bruce, Fleming, Wallace, etc. your name is of Norman origin.  The population also includes occupational names - Smith, Carpenter, Cook, including the Stewarts whose real name was FitzAlan (Norman) but their position was "Steward". You can add to the mix assorted English and Irish who moved to the lowlands to work in the mines.  The people who are supposedly members or septs of clans were really people who were settled on land owned by the owner or head of the clan. This means you could have a tenant on land owned by Stewart of Bute, whose name is Smith. He is a smith by occupation but if his lord requires his services, he must do it or move off the land. Does that mean Smith is a sept of Clan Stewart? I wouldn't think so but some books may put them there. However, if Stewart of Bute's sister married say Robert Smith, their descendants would probably be considered a sept.  Just my attempt at clarification. In answer to your what to tell people who ask, if they aren't directly associated with a clan point them to one of the generic tartans and explain lowland scots had just as romantic a history as the highlanders did. Elizabeth Russon On Friday, March 16, 2018 8:01 AM, "ayrshire-request@rootsweb.com" <ayrshire-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: Send AYRSHIRE mailing list submissions to     ayrshire@rootsweb.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     ayrshire-request@rootsweb.com You can reach the person managing the list at     ayrshire-owner@rootsweb.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of AYRSHIRE digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Source for telling when Clan your name belongs to       (Loretta Layman)   2. Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? (Bill Davidson)   3. Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? (Deborah Rea) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 07:34:55 -0400 From: "Loretta Layman" <lynneage@h-o-l.com> Subject: [AYR] Re: Source for telling when Clan your name belongs to To: <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <001b01d3bd1a$d13afe20$73b0fa60$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The first thing I would say is that not all Scottish families, not even a majority of Scottish families, belonged to clans.  Historically, few Lowland families had clans or clan associations. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:06 PM To: AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com Subject: [AYR] Source for telling when Clan your name belongs to I have been manning Clan tents since 2009, and one of the questions that I have yet to find any source for is when someone comes along and says my name is �Smith� or �Jones� and what Clan do I belong to. While over the years I have bought a number of books on Scottish Clan and they normally at the back have a list of a few hundred family names that tell you are part of clan Hamilton, Gordon, etc. So how can you find out if �your name� is Scottish or not? >From other people manning other Clan tents, I have been told that there are some 17,000 Scottish names, but I have never seen any source of these. So does anyone know of any book or website that might be used as a reference. I have often told people to look at the Tartan History or Museum site � but I have never had any feed back as if that provides the answer or not. I am a member of the Scottish Group of the Genealogical Society of Queensland and last week I suggested to our Secretary that over time we might be able to develop and website � if one has not already been developed � to allow people to get an answer to this question.  This group will now not meet until early May. Thank you Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 07:50:50 -0400 From: Bill Davidson <williamhkdavidson@gmail.com> Subject: [AYR] Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <8FA5AEEE-FA57-42BE-8DD3-95D9DACA8EEA@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Now that is a surprise, I can reach you via reply. There seems to be only two or three regulars that can post and you are the most common. bill On Mar 15, 2018, at 19:22, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: Bill It is quite strange, I am non 6 rootsweb.com sites.  five location, which have returned and one named - Boyd@rootsweb.com - but for the last week or 10 days nothing from that.  Hopefully other named list are working. I know that different list are on different servers, so that might be the problem and the Boyd net list is on the one that decided it was not going to work. Mike Boyd -----Original Message----- From: Bill Davidson Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 8:47 AM To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [AYR] Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? Hi Mike, The Rootsweb site says they are back but they don’t seem to be working. I’ve tried 2 different emails neither work. I’m hoping this gets to you via reply. They had a website helper saying if your email does not work visit this Rootsweb affiliate and for $5 we’ll help you fix it. http://home.rootsweb.ancestry.com/listindexes/ Bill On Mar 15, 2018, at 17:33, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: Do any members know if the named lists are back up yet? I am on five location lists and they are back, but the Boyd named list does not yet seem to be working.  So does this apply to other named net list? Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 12:00:17 +0000 From: Deborah Rea <deborah.rea94@gmail.com> Subject: [AYR] Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? To: "AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com" <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID:     <CAJneOLxGBTzp_0q79oKc8Km3FNBBypJz0p1HqTBEo6XW9oWHYA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am getting everyone's replies. Regards Debbie Rea On Fri, 16 Mar 2018, 11:51 Bill Davidson, <williamhkdavidson@gmail.com> wrote: > Now that is a surprise, I can reach you via reply. There seems to be only > two or three regulars that can post and you are the most common. > > bill > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 19:22, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Bill > It is quite strange, I am non 6 rootsweb.com sites.  five location, which > have returned and one named - Boyd@rootsweb.com - but for the last week > or 10 days nothing from that.  Hopefully other named list are working. > > I know that different list are on different servers, so that might be the > problem and the Boyd net list is on the one that decided it was not going > to work. > > Mike Boyd > > -----Original Message----- From: Bill Davidson > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 8:47 AM > To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AYR] Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? > > Hi Mike, > > The Rootsweb site says they are back but they don’t seem to be working. > I’ve tried 2 different emails neither work. I’m hoping this gets to you via > reply. > > They had a website helper saying if your email does not work visit this > Rootsweb affiliate and for $5 we’ll help you fix it. > > http://home.rootsweb.ancestry.com/listindexes/ > > Bill > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 17:33, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Do any members know if the named lists are back up yet? > > I am on five location lists and they are back, but the Boyd named list > does not yet seem to be working.  So does this apply to other named net > list? > > Mike Boyd > Brisbane, Aust. > > > > > ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer To contact the %(real_name)s list administrator, send an email to %(real_name)s-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the AYRSHIRE mailing list -- ayrshire@rootsweb.com, send an email to %(real_name)s@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to %(real_name)s-request@%(host_name)s with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. ------------------------------ End of AYRSHIRE Digest, Vol 13, Issue 23 ****************************************

Not sure as to where to confirm a Clan name but it is wise to be wary of B,D, & M postings other than on S.P. & even they can make mistakes! I , too, have Robert Bain's "Clans & Tartans of Scotland" 1964 edition, which is probably very close to truth as "Bible" . Ruth

After many years with my own genealogy website and using Ancestry on and off, I’m going to discontinue my GoDaddy site and make my Davidson available on Ancestry. www.williamdavidson.com <http://www.williamdavidson.com/>. will be available until May 10th Bill

I am getting everyone's replies. Regards Debbie Rea On Fri, 16 Mar 2018, 11:51 Bill Davidson, <williamhkdavidson@gmail.com> wrote: > Now that is a surprise, I can reach you via reply. There seems to be only > two or three regulars that can post and you are the most common. > > bill > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 19:22, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Bill > It is quite strange, I am non 6 rootsweb.com sites. five location, which > have returned and one named - Boyd@rootsweb.com - but for the last week > or 10 days nothing from that. Hopefully other named list are working. > > I know that different list are on different servers, so that might be the > problem and the Boyd net list is on the one that decided it was not going > to work. > > Mike Boyd > > -----Original Message----- From: Bill Davidson > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 8:47 AM > To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AYR] Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? > > Hi Mike, > > The Rootsweb site says they are back but they don’t seem to be working. > I’ve tried 2 different emails neither work. I’m hoping this gets to you via > reply. > > They had a website helper saying if your email does not work visit this > Rootsweb affiliate and for $5 we’ll help you fix it. > > http://home.rootsweb.ancestry.com/listindexes/ > > Bill > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 17:33, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Do any members know if the named lists are back up yet? > > I am on five location lists and they are back, but the Boyd named list > does not yet seem to be working. So does this apply to other named net > list? > > Mike Boyd > Brisbane, Aust. > > > > >

Now that is a surprise, I can reach you via reply. There seems to be only two or three regulars that can post and you are the most common. bill On Mar 15, 2018, at 19:22, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: Bill It is quite strange, I am non 6 rootsweb.com sites. five location, which have returned and one named - Boyd@rootsweb.com - but for the last week or 10 days nothing from that. Hopefully other named list are working. I know that different list are on different servers, so that might be the problem and the Boyd net list is on the one that decided it was not going to work. Mike Boyd -----Original Message----- From: Bill Davidson Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 8:47 AM To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [AYR] Re: Are the Rootsweb.com named list also back up? Hi Mike, The Rootsweb site says they are back but they don’t seem to be working. I’ve tried 2 different emails neither work. I’m hoping this gets to you via reply. They had a website helper saying if your email does not work visit this Rootsweb affiliate and for $5 we’ll help you fix it. http://home.rootsweb.ancestry.com/listindexes/ Bill On Mar 15, 2018, at 17:33, Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> wrote: Do any members know if the named lists are back up yet? I am on five location lists and they are back, but the Boyd named list does not yet seem to be working. So does this apply to other named net list? Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust.

The first thing I would say is that not all Scottish families, not even a majority of Scottish families, belonged to clans. Historically, few Lowland families had clans or clan associations. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:06 PM To: AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com Subject: [AYR] Source for telling when Clan your name belongs to I have been manning Clan tents since 2009, and one of the questions that I have yet to find any source for is when someone comes along and says my name is �Smith� or �Jones� and what Clan do I belong to. While over the years I have bought a number of books on Scottish Clan and they normally at the back have a list of a few hundred family names that tell you are part of clan Hamilton, Gordon, etc. So how can you find out if �your name� is Scottish or not? >From other people manning other Clan tents, I have been told that there are some 17,000 Scottish names, but I have never seen any source of these. So does anyone know of any book or website that might be used as a reference. I have often told people to look at the Tartan History or Museum site � but I have never had any feed back as if that provides the answer or not. I am a member of the Scottish Group of the Genealogical Society of Queensland and last week I suggested to our Secretary that over time we might be able to develop and website � if one has not already been developed � to allow people to get an answer to this question. This group will now not meet until early May. Thank you Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust.