Unlike baptisms, the pre-1855 marriage records kept by the Church of Scotland, were supposed to include the other denominations because the "banns" were proclaimed and the record kept by the parish clerk even if the minister of the other denomination officiated. It wasn't always very well done... but that was what was supposed to happen. In a message dated 2/1/2014 10:32:27 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: On 01/02/2014 16:03, Meg Greenwood {[email protected]} wrote: > The old IGI has several STIRRAT marriages in Ayrshire. Wasn't following > this thread, if any of these are of interest, I can get full details, > write to me at [email protected] > Fay, You need to remember that almost all scotlandspeople and IGI marriages for Scotland are Church of Scotland ones, with most of the other denominations like United Free Church not being included. There is also the problem of common law marriage by declaration so you may not find the marriage you are seeking. After 1855 there is a greater chance of finding the marriage as civil registration started in that year. Don't forget that if you find any event BMD for 1855 there will be a lot more information on the certificate than for later years. For example a birth certificate will say how many children the mother already had and if they are still living. Nuala ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Charles, Mike and Jennifer, Very many thanks for your great help which is much appreciated. Most kind of you Charles. Regards, Fay.

The old IGI has several STIRRAT marriages in Ayrshire. Wasn't following this thread, if any of these are of interest, I can get full details, write to me at [email protected] 1855 Marriages Dalry James IRVINE to Margaret STIRRAT, Sept 10 Dundonald David STIRRAT to Grace ANDREW, Oct 2 Kilbirnie James STIRRAT to Agnes ORR, March 9 Robert WILSON to Jean STIRRAT, Nov 16 Kilwinning John SHEDDON to Margaret STIRRAT, July 17 No other 1855s come up in Ayrshire for STIRRAT with any other surname as spouse. MegG in OK =====================================

If there is a question about the 1855 STIRRAT marriage, the FHC nearby my home has ALL 1855 Bs, Ms and Ds for Scotland [all 901 parishes]. We are thinly ice-glazed-over this morning but by this afternoon, it should be clear and I'd planned on going there. Will post details for it later today [its almost 10am here]. Do not have the 1858 Registration, only 1855s...with them being so packed with family information, the films were all ordered about 10 years ago. Meg Greenwood / near Tulsa, OK ================================================= On 2/1/2014 4:00 AM, Jennifer Myers wrote: > Fay, there is a marriage on ScotlandsPeople 1858 in Ayrshire for a William > STIRRAT + ORR, using any form of Jxxxxx or only J it does not come up. Using > only surnames there is also another STIRRAT + ORR marriage in 1855 Ayr. > snipped

Thanks Mike, Cannot find on ScotlandsPeople but will get in touch with North Ayrshire Local Studies Library. Your encouragement is appreciated. Fay.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Hunter_Genealogy Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/5426.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Barbara, These are the same McLatchie / Wyllie families I was looking for in my original post back in 2003 and I'd be happy to send you a pdf of the information I have but will need to do outside the message board so if you are interested here's my email address if you want to reply. [email protected] Thx. Al Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Dear Listers, Greetings to all. I am a first timer to Ayrshire and hope to make some discoveries. In the parish of Lochwinnoch in1872 Robert STIRRAT farmer Kilbirnie married Elizabeth Craig, farmer's daughter Lochwinnoch. I have become stuck with marriage date of Robert's father and mother William STIRRAT and Jeanie Orr and unable to find older information. If anyone can identify this STIRRAT family would be very happy to hear further. Many thanks. Fay.

Catherine The James Morton born in 1777 at "Loudoun" is that for the Parish or the Estate. If the parish I would suspect that both Galston and Darvel would be in that parish Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust. -----Original Message----- From: Catherine and Nick Madinaveitia Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 2:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [AYR] Morton in Ayrshire James Morton c 1775 Hello, I have lots of James Mortons in my database but none born in Galston. I do have James Morton born 1777 in Loudoun who married Janet Steel and James Morton born 1778 Darvel who married Helen Gilchrist. Could either of these be your man? Catherine ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

James Morton c 1775 Hello, I have lots of James Mortons in my database but none born in Galston. I do have James Morton born 1777 in Loudoun who married Janet Steel and James Morton born 1778 Darvel who married Helen Gilchrist. Could either of these be your man? Catherine

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: WLGreene49 Surnames: King, Kerr Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/14454/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi, I'm interested in any information about Robert King and Jane Kerr. Also I would love to correspond with anyone researching this family. They had a son David King born 23 Oct 1787 in Ayr, Ayr, Scotland. I believe this MAY be my great great grandfather David King. He was born between 1788 and 1790. The death certificate for one of his daughters listed his birthplace in Scotland. David King married twice 1) Jane Aikens; 2) Mary Polly Garver. He had children from both wives. David King and Jane Aikens had a son Robert King who was a physician in Pittsburgh, PA. I descend from his second marriage through his son Harry P. King. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Could anyone please assist me in advising what family links there may have been between these Blair family members interred at Restalrig Churchyard in Edinburgh:- *Miss Catherine Blair, born C 1760, daughter of Alexander Blair, Esq., of Port-Glasgow *Miss Elizabeth Blair, born C 1763, daughter of John Blair, Esq., brother of Major Hamilton Blair of Blair. *Janet Blair, born C 1726, relict of Mr. Alexander Tait, WS. I am also interested as to the reason why Catherine would have been interred in "Colonel Fullarton's tomb"; neither of the two Colonel Fullarton's of Fullarton were in fact buried at Restalrig although the first wife of Colonel Stewart Murray Fullarton of Fullarton is interred in Mr. Alexander Tait's tomb. Colonel William Fullarton of Fullarton's wife, Barbara, was a sister of Janet Blair, her father was William Scott Blair. Peter Melbourne Australia

Yes Lee, I think that this was the migration path of these Sharp's. So if these are your Sharp family, it would be well to get this book Mike Boyd -----Original Message----- From: lkramsey Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:33 PM To: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-ANTRIM] Did County Antrim Presbyterian cross toArgyllshire to Christian their children? Mike, The crossings back to Scotland for religious reasons occurred during the period of time when the Presbyterians and their ministers were first persecuted, with many of those ministers being deported back to Scotland. Those making the crossings for the sacraments were not returning to home churches, but rather to the nearest Presbyterian congregation, making for a hasty return trip back to Ireland. This may have been during the mid 1600s. The "Black Oath" was forced upon the Presbyterians during the early 1600s. This created a good deal of back migration during that period. These laws of religious discrimination could not be enforced to great effect and the Presbyterians in Ireland continued their worship and sacraments in private without strict oversight and later with little discernment by officials. I do not recall when these laws were repealed, but it seems sometime during the latter part of the 1800s. Specific families from early local histories are not generally known. There were early Sharp/Sharpe families in the NE corner of Maryland between the forks of Elk River, along with other families who went to Mecklenburg Co., NC. I do not recall specifics. If you would like a look-up, I will check to see what I may have. Lee ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I am new to the List, helping a relation find her family. She is looking for help on a James Morton born around 1775 in Galston, i found a james Morton buried 14-9-1861 in Newmilns cemetery not sure if that him, he married a marion Caldwell born Kilmarnock around 1779 they married in 1805. we know nothing about her my cousin thinks she may have died before 1841 census. They had Jean, Ann and( Fanny )who she has a lot on her as this is her side.they were from East Ayrshire and id anyone can help me so really appreciate it. thank you Sue

Sue You will need to look at the archives for this list. I think it was last year that there was a discussion for a Morton, but I can't recall the first name. Secondly, you will need to go to the "Scotlandspeple" website that is run by Register House in Edinburgh. The death entry for James Morton, should confirm if the two people are the same. If you have trouble, go to your local Library in New Zealand and they should be able to assist you. Thirdly, contact the East Ayrshire Local Studies Library at the Burns Centre, Kilmarnock. (You should be able to get their Email from the Council website.) About 20 years ago, someone had the unemployed go through all the Cemetries and list the graves. So they should be able to tell you how else is in that grave, etc. What additional details do you know? Such as which church did they marry in? The names of their children and when and where were they married, etc Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust. -----Original Message----- From: Les & Sue Tuner Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [AYR] MORTON FAMILY FROM EAST AYRSHIRE Hi, I am new to the List, helping a relation find her family. She is looking for help on a James Morton born around 1775 in Galston, i found a james Morton buried 14-9-1861 in Newmilns cemetery not sure if that him, he married a marion Caldwell born Kilmarnock around 1779 they married in 1805. we know nothing about her my cousin thinks she may have died before 1841 census. They had Jean, Ann and( Fanny )who she has a lot on her as this is her side.they were from East Ayrshire and id anyone can help me so really appreciate it. thank you Sue ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: deborah_12_ Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/4268.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello, Nice to see this thread. Jane Gilmour was my great great grandmother on my father's side. Harry (Hank) McGhee, her son was my great grandfather and I remember him well. He really loved his whiskey! Many of the Mcghees lived in Windsor Ontario after emigrating to Canada. Quite a wild bunch from what I've been told! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: louiseguidi Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/14435.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Maggie, Could you pinpoint what information your looking for exactly, not quite sure from your email. Louise in Ayrshire Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

One book that I found during my trip to the USA in June 2013 that was new to me was called “The Boyd Family of Pike County, Missouri, The Ancestors and Descendants of John Warren Boyd and Rosalea Helen Baxter, by Mary Ellen Boyd and Herbert Eugene (Gene) Boyd, 2008. I an section dealing with the Sharp Family origins of this book, there was discussion if some members of this family were born in County Antrim or Argyllshire, as they had been Christened at Campbelltown, Arygllshire in the early and mid 1700’s. I am sure that other sections on spouse families also mentioned a similar problem. So the questioned need to be asked ‘when Presbyterian Church were not allowed to Christian, marry or bury their members in Ireland did they travel from northern County Antrim and Londonderry to the Presbyterian Churches in Kintyre, Argyllshire – such as Campbelltown and Southend? I can’t recall what year in the 1700’s that Presbyterian’s were allowed to undertake Church functions and not use the Church of Ireland Churches? So did people living in Northern Ulster, go to Argyllshire for to have their children Christened within the various sects of the Presbyterian Church. With Southend only being about 40 kms from Ballycastle by sea. I assume that people from Larne, Carrickfergus and eastern County Down would have either gone to Ayrshire or a Wigtonshire Churches? So will this mean that while the family actually lived in Ulster, their Church records will be in those nearby Scottish Counties? This book mentions a number of Scottish families, including Wallace, Fullerton, Sharp, Alexander, McCullock, and McKnights. A number of these sound to be good Ayrshire names. I will have to do some further research to see which of these families went from Ulster, to York County, PA, down to Iredell County, North Carolina, Trigg County Kentucky and then onto Pike County, Missouri, but from a very quick read it seems that most of these families intermarried over the generations and through the above migration trail. Do any members know if this actually happened? Thank you Mike Boyd Historical Committee House of Boyd Society

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: BuobT Surnames: STUART BLYTH MILLER/MILLAR Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/14453/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In the 1880 Pennsylvania US Census Elizabeth STUART (6 Dec 1846 - 23 Feb 23 1910 PA) said she was born in AYRSHIRE and her parents in Scotland, her husband John Blyth MILLER/MILLAR was born in Edinboro, Scotland. I am looking for her parents, her parish, and any additional available information. John MILLER's parents were Charles MILLAR/MILLER and Janet/Jennet BLYTH both were living in MIDLOTHIAN Scotland at the time of his birth 7 June 1836 - d. 19 Feb 1916 PA.. I would like to know of his grandparents. Thank you I Search Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Mike, Years ago I came across some oral family history which said that some of our Presbyterian Johnstons who were in Ireland and C. of I. for convenience's sake still went back to Scotland and their Presbyterian Church to have marriages and baptisms sanctified there.  When I posted this on some internet sites some 10 or more years ago the response was quite negative, i.e.:  Why would they go all the way back to Scotland to do that when it could have been done in Ireland someplace easier and cheaper?  Well, the answer is that they still had their strong belief system in place, and they also visited family while in Scotland.  It was a double bonus trip :-) Cliff. ________________________________ From: Mike Boyd <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 3:21 AM Subject: [AYR] Did County Antrim Presbyterian cross to Argyllshire to Christian their children? One book that I found during my trip to the USA in June 2013 that was new to me was called “The Boyd Family of Pike County, Missouri, The Ancestors and Descendants of John Warren Boyd and Rosalea Helen Baxter, by Mary Ellen Boyd and Herbert Eugene (Gene) Boyd, 2008.  I an section dealing with the Sharp Family origins of this book, there was discussion if some members of this family were born in County Antrim or Argyllshire, as they had been Christened at Campbelltown, Arygllshire in the early and mid 1700’s.  I am sure that other sections on spouse families also mentioned a similar problem. So the questioned need to be asked ‘when Presbyterian Church were not allowed to Christian, marry or bury their members in Ireland did they travel from northern County Antrim and Londonderry to the Presbyterian Churches in Kintyre, Argyllshire – such as Campbelltown and Southend? I can’t recall what year in the 1700’s that Presbyterian’s were allowed to undertake Church functions and not use the Church of Ireland Churches? So did people living in Northern Ulster, go to Argyllshire for to have their children Christened within the various sects of the Presbyterian Church.  With Southend only being about 40 kms from Ballycastle by sea. I assume that people from Larne, Carrickfergus and eastern County Down would have either gone to Ayrshire or a Wigtonshire Churches? So will this mean that while the family actually lived in Ulster, their Church records will be in those nearby Scottish Counties? This book mentions a number of Scottish families, including Wallace, Fullerton, Sharp, Alexander, McCullock, and McKnights.  A number of these sound to be good Ayrshire names.  I will have to do some further research to see which of these families went from Ulster, to York County, PA, down to Iredell County, North Carolina, Trigg County Kentucky and then onto Pike County, Missouri, but from a very quick read it seems that most of these families intermarried over the generations and through the above migration trail. Do any members know if this actually happened? Thank you Mike Boyd Historical Committee House of Boyd Society ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I should have noted... the Campbell Marquises, later Dukes, of Argyll were ardent Presbyterians from the Reformation on, and supporters of the Covenanters. So their lands became a place of refuge for those in less friendly settings during the various conflicts and struggles. Ken C. In a message dated 1/25/2014 7:38:05 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: The Campbelltown area in Argyllshire was a refuge for persecuted Presbyterians from Ayrshire in the 17th century. A branch of the Howies from Fenwick settled there. There was also a lot of going back and forth between Ulster and Ayrshire... some from northern Ireland settled at Fenwick in William Guthrie's day. Campbelltown would be similarly accessible. I know that in the later 18th century the Presbyterians in Ulster were nearly as marginalized (legally speaking) as the Catholics, because the aristocracy were members of the then "established" Church of Ireland (i.e. Episcopal). That dated from the era of the Glorious Revolution under William and Mary, but on back to the Stuart Restoration as well. I've not heard of Presbyterians not being allowed to baptize or bury folks in Ulster, but I've not done extensive research. In Scotland the only restriction was really on marriage, folks in the non-established denominations still had to have the "banns" proclaimed in the official parish kirk. It is virtually impossible to find surviving records of Presbyterian churches in Ulster. I have a general idea where my Gibson line may have come from in Ulster... but that's it. My spouse's Lindsay line were Church of Ireland before emigrating, and we have more info. on them... back to King Billy's army. The discrimination against poor Presbyterians in Ulster is why so many... whole congregations at times... left for America (Pennsylvania and South Carolina, in particular) in the latter part of the 18th century. Ken C. In a message dated 1/25/2014 2:26:05 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: One book that I found during my trip to the USA in June 2013 that was new to me was called “The Boyd Family of Pike County, Missouri, The Ancestors and Descendants of John Warren Boyd and Rosalea Helen Baxter, by Mary Ellen Boyd and Herbert Eugene (Gene) Boyd, 2008. I an section dealing with the Sharp Family origins of this book, there was discussion if some members of this family were born in County Antrim or Argyllshire, as they had been Christened at Campbelltown, Arygllshire in the early and mid 1700’s. I am sure that other sections on spouse families also mentioned a similar problem. So the questioned need to be asked ‘when Presbyterian Church were not allowed to Christian, marry or bury their members in Ireland did they travel from northern County Antrim and Londonderry to the Presbyterian Churches in Kintyre, Argyllshire – such as Campbelltown and Southend? I can’t recall what year in the 1700’s that Presbyterian’s were allowed to undertake Church functions and not use the Church of Ireland Churches? So did people living in Northern Ulster, go to Argyllshire for to have their children Christened within the various sects of the Presbyterian Church. With Southend only being about 40 kms from Ballycastle by sea. I assume that people from Larne, Carrickfergus and eastern County Down would have either gone to Ayrshire or a Wigtonshire Churches? So will this mean that while the family actually lived in Ulster, their Church records will be in those nearby Scottish Counties? This book mentions a number of Scottish families, including Wallace, Fullerton, Sharp, Alexander, McCullock, and McKnights. A number of these sound to be good Ayrshire names. I will have to do some further research to see which of these families went from Ulster, to York County, PA, down to Iredell County, North Carolina, Trigg County Kentucky and then onto Pike County, Missouri, but from a very quick read it seems that most of these families intermarried over the generations and through the above migration trail. Do any members know if this actually happened? Thank you Mike Boyd Historical Committee House of Boyd Society ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message