This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: elizabethr1183 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/6231.3.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Just a hint. There is a bunch of Shimmons in Warwickshire. Could be his family came north. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: scotsgirl44 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/6231.3.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks - have this info from ancestry- but according to this thread - he did have children - so I'll keep searching. Have now found the DC for his mother. Thanks again.. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: scotsgirl44 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/6231.3.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks - opened up new leads and I've located Elizabeth Shimmons DC. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jecroft Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/6231.3.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In the Catholic Records on scotlandspeople.gov.uk, there is a birth in Ayrshire of a daughter Cecily to a Thomas Shimmins & Elizabeth Callister. These possibly are the parents in the 1841 census. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: JennyMyers61 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/6231.3.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: There is the following in the Queensland BDM - Deaths - a copy of which may be bought online. 1879 C449 Thomas SImmons - - ** born Scotland aged 48 years yr - Country area, Reg. No. - Names - No Parental details supplied - only info above. There is no marriage or children b to a Thomas Shimmons. https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/ Convicted at Scotland Ayr Court of Justiciary for a term of 7 years on 27 September 1847 Departure on the Bangalore, 01 January 1850 Place of Arrival Moreton Bay Primary source: Australian Joint Copying Project. Microfilm Roll 92, Class and Piece Number HO11/16, Page Number 164 His Ticket of Leave was announced in The Moreton Bay Courier on Previous issue Saturday 28 September 1850, Page 4 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ REGARDS jENNY Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: scotsgirl44 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/6231.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I'd be interested to know what happened to Thomas after his arrival in Australia - there's some information on ancestry. I'd like to know who he married and who his descendants were. His own family back in Scotland bar 3 of his siblings are untraceable after 1851. Any information may help. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jeanniedj3 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/1801.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello, I received your reply via another person hence the delay in getting back to you. Yes I am still seeking information on William Gemmel Douglas, William Thomas, & William Hugh Douglas families. Can you contact me at [email protected] please? Many thanks Jeannie Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Bev I am not on the Ancestry Group list, so hopefully someone will pass this nto you >From the A Genealogical Account of the Principal Families in Ayrshire, more particularly in Cunninghame, By George Robertson, Vol 1., 1823, pp 252-257, it provides this information about hte 4th and 5th Earls I1 Robert Boyd, first Lord Boyd, created before 18 July 1454, b 14xx, d 148x (Alnwick, Northumberland), thought to have died in exile after Easter 1480-81 and before 14 October 1482, when the title and estates were restored to his grandson, m 14xx, Mariota (or Janet), daughter of Sir John Maxwell of Calderwood, b 14xx, d died after 25 June 1472, apparently early in 1473 and had issue:- [Lived: ] J5 Elizabeth Boyd, b 14xx, d before 1498, m 4/3/1468 , Archibald Douglas, fifth Earl of Angus (Bell the Cat), b 14xx, d 1514, and had issue:- Archibald m 2ndly 1498?, Catherine Stirling, dau of Sir William Stirling, of Keir, b 14xx, d 15xx, and had 2 children :- [Lived: ] K4 Mariot/Mary Douglas, b / /147x, d / /15xx ), bu , m / /149x (church, town, county, etc), Cuthbert, third Earl of Glencairn, son of and (nee ) Cunningham, b / /147x ( ), d / /15xx ( ), bu , and had issue:- [Lived: ] - Their family according to A Genealogical Account of the Principal Families in Ayrshire, more particularly in Cunninghame, By George Robertson, Vol 1., 1823, pp 252-257. Robertson only said that he had a son, William, and gave no other family to this couple. Need to check Paterson and Burkes tree's L1 William Cunningham, fourth Earl of Glencairn, b / /149x ( ), d / /1547 ( ), bu , m / /151x (church, town, county, etc), wife's name not given, dau of and (nee ) ?????, b / /149x ( ), d / /152x ( ), bu , and had no issue:- ? m 2ndly / /152x (church, town, county, etc), Elizabeth Campbell, dau and heiress of John Campbell, of West Loudoun, and , b / /150x ( ), d / /15xx ( ), bu , and had issue:- [Lived: ] M1 Alexander Cunningham, fifth Earl of Glencairn, b / /152x ( ), d / /1574 ( ), bu , m / /154x (Church, town, county, etc), Lady Johanna Hamilton, dau of James Hamilton, first * Earl of Arran and , b / /152x ( ), d / /154x ( ), bu , and had issue:- m 2ndly / /155x (church, town, county, etc), Janet Cunningham, dau of Sir John Cunningham, of Caprington, and [see ch 9/468], b / /153x ( ), d / /15xx ( ), bu , and had issue:- [Lived: , Kilmears?, Ayrshire ] This very limited data MIGHT SUGGEST that your Alexander Cunnningham, MIGHT BE a younger brother to William Cunningham, fourth Earl of Glencairn. I do not have any details for other siblings of this William Cunningham. You may find that from either the Sir Robert (?) Douglas Scots Peerage of about 1810 or from Volumes of the Cunningham family written in the late 1800 at the National Library of Scotland in Edinburgh, as part of the Scottish Records series of publications. At this point if you think that your Alexander Cunningham was part of the Earl's family, he should be one of the Cadet Branches of Cunningham, so where did the next few generations live? That may be one of your better guides if he is linked to the Head of the Clan. Mike Boyd Historical Committee, HBS -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 1:45 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AYR] cunningham-winning family This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: bev2373 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/256.1462.1.3.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am looking for any information regarding Alexander Cunningham and Mary Robinson. I see this marriage all over the web, but everyone seems to assume this Alexander is the 5thh Earl of Glencairn, b. 1498 in Scotland. Peerage records say he married Jane Cunningham and Lady Jane Hamilton. There is no mention of a Mary Robinson. I am a direct descendant of Alexander and Mary. Alexander is my 10th g-grandfather. Bev Cunnyngham Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: bev2373 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/256.1462.1.3.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am looking for any information regarding Alexander Cunningham and Mary Robinson. I see this marriage all over the web, but everyone seems to assume this Alexander is the 5thh Earl of Glencairn, b. 1498 in Scotland. Peerage records say he married Jane Cunningham and Lady Jane Hamilton. There is no mention of a Mary Robinson. I am a direct descendant of Alexander and Mary. Alexander is my 10th g-grandfather. Bev Cunnyngham Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: bev2373 Surnames: Cunningham, Cunnyngham, Cuningham, Cunynghame, Robinson Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/14463/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am looking for any information regarding Alexander Cunningham and Mary Robinson. I see this marriage all over the web, but everyone seems to assume this Alexander is the 5thh Earl of Glencairn, b. 1498 in Scotland. Peerage records say he married Jane Cunningham and Lady Jane Hamilton. There is no mention of a Mary Robinson. I am a direct descendant of Alexander and Mary. Alexander is my 10th g-grandfather. Bev Cunnyngham Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

Curiosity got the better of me and I looked up a few things which may be of interest to others. I was astonished to find "marriage by cohabitation with habit and repute" was only abolished in 2006 [Family Law (Scotland) Act 2006 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2006/2/section/3 ]. Basically if everyone had assumed you were husband and wife (spouses) then you were. As I understand it, when people refer to 'common-law marriage' in Scotland they mean "marriage by cohabitation with habit and repute". I also found an article from Glasgow University's School of Social and Political Sciences interesting for this explanation of a form of 'irregular marriage': "After registration was introduced, an irregular marriage could be registered if the couple presented themselves before a sheriff or magistrate, were 'convicted' as parties to an irregular marriage, and paid a fine. Some found it quicker and cheaper to have their irregular marriage entered in the schedules by the registrar under sheriff's warrant than to go through the expense of banns and a regular marriage ceremony." "Although so-called 'irregular' marriage by sheriff's warrant technically attracted a 'fine' until the law was changed in 1916, it was becoming a more frequent legal alternative to a church ceremony. In 1939, marriage registered by sheriff's warrant ended, and it was possible, as in England, to marry by a civil ceremony in the registrar's office." http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/ Unfortunately the Marriage (Scotland) Act 1939 isn't available yet online. Best wishes, Kay in Edinburgh.

Hi Listers I was always of the opinion that "Spouse" was a term used to describe either a husband or wife. This is also the description used in the Chambers English Dictionary. Hope this helps. Gilbert Meikle ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 7:00 AM Subject: AYRSHIRE Digest, Vol 9, Issue 49 > >> Hi Peter > > as far as I know 'spouse' has always been a legal term for wife, which > indicates the couple is married. I dont think there would be any difference > in the meaning between 'spouse to' and 'spouse of'. > Im not sure what you mean by the term "private marriage". Why dont you look > on Google for some Scottish legal terms, none of my books had anything. > > Did anyone else give you any ideas. > > Good luck > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: USE OF THE TERM "SPOUSE" (The Pools) > 2. Re: USE OF THE TERM "SPOUSE" (Nuala) > 3. SPOUSE TO or OF ?? (Peter STRAUSS) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 20:09:30 +1300 > From: "The Pools" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AYR] USE OF THE TERM "SPOUSE" > To: "Peter STRAUSS" <[email protected]> > Cc: Aryshire roots <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter STRAUSS > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:12 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AYR] USE OF THE TERM "SPOUSE" > > I have been examining a Deed of Settlement drawn up for Colonel William > Fullarton of Fullarton during the 1790's. > > > > In this document there are several references to a lady being "...now spouse > to...". > > > > In Australia there is usage of "spouse of" and I cannot recall seeing a > reference of "spouse to". > > > > Does this usage mean that the couple were married, or at least intending to > marry? Alternatively were they in a "Private Marriage? > > > > Peter > > Melbourne > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 07:40:08 +0000 > From: Nuala <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AYR] USE OF THE TERM "SPOUSE" > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Peter, > > I agree with Margaret about spouse meaning legal wife. I assume by > private marriage you mean common-law marriage which in Scotland was also > recognised as legal marriage. > > Nuala > > On 13/03/2014 07:09, The Pools wrote: >> Hi Peter >> >> as far as I know 'spouse' has always been a legal term for wife, which >> indicates the couple is married. I dont think there would be any difference >> in the meaning between 'spouse to' and 'spouse of'. >> Im not sure what you mean by the term "private marriage". Why dont you look >> on Google for some Scottish legal terms, none of my books had anything. >> >> Did anyone else give you any ideas. >> >> Good luck >> >> Margaret >> >> -----Original Message----- >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 16:26:39 +1100 > From: "Peter STRAUSS" <[email protected]> > Subject: [AYR] SPOUSE TO or OF ?? > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]@iinet.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Since I posted my enquiry querying whether there was any difference in the > usage of either "TO" or "OF", a number of people have replied to me direct > and queried my use of the phrase "Private Marriage". > > > > I have a Deed of Settlement written in 1795 which uses "spouse to" referring > to a couple who were not married until the following year. > > > > I had seem this phrase "Private Marriage" previously and had understood it > to mean a marriage without the benefit of the Kirk. > > > > I have received the detail set out below from Loretta Layman who pointed out > that the official term was "Irregular Marriage". She also provided an > explanation based on information at ScotlandsPeople. > > > > Peter > > Melbourne > > > > "The custom of hand fasting or hand tying, portrayed in the movie > 'Braveheart', was not a binding marriage but only a year-long 'trial' > > period, at the end of which the couple had the right to separate if they did > not wish to continue living together. Still, any child born of that union > was considered legitimate. If at the end of a year the couple was content > with the union, it was followed by a formal marriage, usually outside the > church, either with or without witnesses, during which the couple could say > that they took each other as husband and wife. Afterward, such unions were > legal marriages in the eyes of the state but not of the church; and the > church often tried to persuade such couples to be married in a church > ceremony. Whether or not the couple complied, both the wife and the > children of such a union would legally inherit." > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the AYRSHIRE list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the AYRSHIRE mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of AYRSHIRE Digest, Vol 9, Issue 49 > *************************************** >

Since I posted my enquiry querying whether there was any difference in the usage of either "TO" or "OF", a number of people have replied to me direct and queried my use of the phrase "Private Marriage". I have a Deed of Settlement written in 1795 which uses "spouse to" referring to a couple who were not married until the following year. I had seem this phrase "Private Marriage" previously and had understood it to mean a marriage without the benefit of the Kirk. I have received the detail set out below from Loretta Layman who pointed out that the official term was "Irregular Marriage". She also provided an explanation based on information at ScotlandsPeople. Peter Melbourne "The custom of hand fasting or hand tying, portrayed in the movie 'Braveheart', was not a binding marriage but only a year-long 'trial' period, at the end of which the couple had the right to separate if they did not wish to continue living together. Still, any child born of that union was considered legitimate. If at the end of a year the couple was content with the union, it was followed by a formal marriage, usually outside the church, either with or without witnesses, during which the couple could say that they took each other as husband and wife. Afterward, such unions were legal marriages in the eyes of the state but not of the church; and the church often tried to persuade such couples to be married in a church ceremony. Whether or not the couple complied, both the wife and the children of such a union would legally inherit."

Hi Peter as far as I know 'spouse' has always been a legal term for wife, which indicates the couple is married. I dont think there would be any difference in the meaning between 'spouse to' and 'spouse of'. Im not sure what you mean by the term "private marriage". Why dont you look on Google for some Scottish legal terms, none of my books had anything. Did anyone else give you any ideas. Good luck Margaret -----Original Message----- From: Peter STRAUSS Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [AYR] USE OF THE TERM "SPOUSE" I have been examining a Deed of Settlement drawn up for Colonel William Fullarton of Fullarton during the 1790's. In this document there are several references to a lady being "...now spouse to...". In Australia there is usage of "spouse of" and I cannot recall seeing a reference of "spouse to". Does this usage mean that the couple were married, or at least intending to marry? Alternatively were they in a "Private Marriage? Peter Melbourne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter, I agree with Margaret about spouse meaning legal wife. I assume by private marriage you mean common-law marriage which in Scotland was also recognised as legal marriage. Nuala On 13/03/2014 07:09, The Pools wrote: > Hi Peter > > as far as I know 'spouse' has always been a legal term for wife, which > indicates the couple is married. I dont think there would be any difference > in the meaning between 'spouse to' and 'spouse of'. > Im not sure what you mean by the term "private marriage". Why dont you look > on Google for some Scottish legal terms, none of my books had anything. > > Did anyone else give you any ideas. > > Good luck > > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- >

I have been examining a Deed of Settlement drawn up for Colonel William Fullarton of Fullarton during the 1790's. In this document there are several references to a lady being "...now spouse to...". In Australia there is usage of "spouse of" and I cannot recall seeing a reference of "spouse to". Does this usage mean that the couple were married, or at least intending to marry? Alternatively were they in a "Private Marriage? Peter Melbourne

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: mickeljon Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/2303.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: hi john a direct family line of mine, thomas cunningham and caroline chapman ,I.'ve a copy from scotlandspeple site of the baptismal list.1852,..re; james hunter.. the robert cunningham and bridget dag?? 1855,. this one is interesting ............. robert cunningham born 1844 son of thomas and caroline, may be too young to be a sponsor although 13 yrs was the starting age of employment in those days ...... thomas was a master shoemaker b.1801 ireland .caroline b.1811. england... rgds john Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: we4r_1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/14449.3.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: how do I thankyou THANKYOU Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: kaymcmeekin Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/14449.3.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I looked up the marriage cert today for you. I will email you the details since it is a modern record. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: redrunrig Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/2866.2868.2870.2876/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi I think your Devlin line is the same one that is mine. Arthur Devlin and Margaret Usher, Its the same address as mine John Arthur Devlin and Mary Usher. They had a daughter Margaret. John Arthurs father was Arthur Devlin his mother Eliza McCarten. my email is [email protected] if you email me I will forward a family group sheet. Joyce Devlin Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>