Thank you for that Peter, There are quite a few of my ancestors I'd like to invite - and they may not get on too well together! But who knows? It is a lovely idea. I'll choose GG-Grandmother Mary McNeill from Gigha - I would love too know more about how/when she reached Ayrshire and whether she was able to go home for visits. There are also Welsh ancestors but this is the Ayrshire list. Merry Christmas! Mary Bigger. Stronger. Faster. Sign up for a New Free Email Account at http://MyEmail.com

This Wiki may help re location of Grougar etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scottish_feudal_barony_of_Grougar Jeanne Bell NZ Sent from my iPad > On 17/12/2015, at 9:00 pm, ayrshire-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire (Mike Boyd) > 2. Re: The Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Indes - (1630-1712 > by Isabella MacLean (Deborah Rea) > 3. Re: Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire (Deborah Rea) > 4. Re: Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire (Loretta Layman) > 5. Re: Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire (Linda) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 18:27:17 +1000 > From: "Mike Boyd" <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> > Subject: Re: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > To: "Linda" <searchinguk@shaw.ca>, "'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com'" > <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <F0845B3951174F2DA280EC88A1E55D62@MichaelPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=original > > This does not help you in its location but the 7th Lord Boyd, Robert Boyd > (1595-1628) "had charters of the barony of Grugar, in Ayrshire, 30 March > 1616, with confirmation under the Great Seal 3 August 1619; ..." > > The Boyds in Ayrshire had land at Kilmarnock - running in a SW to NE > direction through Kilmarnock and section section of land than was in a semi > circle around the Hunter's; Fairlie and Boyle's lands form Portencross to > Largs. > > I have been studying the Boyd for over 30 years, but I have yet to find this > Barony. So if you have not contacted them, I would start with the Burns > Centre Library at Kilmarnock. > > Mike Boyd > > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda via > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 12:46 PM > To: 'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com' > Subject: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > > Dear List Members > I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came across > this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any > understanding of the following? > Thanks, Linda > > The Barony of Grougar is a Scottish feudal barony which lies in north > Ayrshire in the district formerly known as Cunninghame. The earliest known > family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in > the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. > The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, > arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, > Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they > were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment of > the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively > confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the > Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were > barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 > and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ?one of the > king of England?s enemies? in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:58:14 +0000 > From: Deborah Rea <deborah.rea94@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [AYR] The Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Indes - > (1630-1712 by Isabella MacLean > To: Mike Boyd <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> > Cc: "AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com" <AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <CAJneOLydvP-FYGhUSWYMJP2QOqh6s3oc01XHg1uOtLeaxZqm7w@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Mike, > > I got this book some months ago and didn't find it useful at all. It is > merely an index. You would have to have all the books at hand to look up > the information and at that point you wouldn't need the index. > > Regards, > Debbie Rea > >> On 16 December 2015 at 02:20, Mike Boyd via <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> Members >> A member of a private group that I am on posted this recently >> >> This is from the book ?The Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Index ? >> (1630-1712), by Isabella MacLean (could not see date of publication). This >> website has four separate pages where Boyds are mentioned. >> >> All the Boyds seem to be dated 1655. I am not sure what other data is >> available from this Index or the references given. Or if there are family >> trees to these individual people. >> I will add this book to my 2016 ?todolist? for when I go to Scotland (not >> sure of timing at this stage), but others might be able to tell tell us >> more about this source and if there are any other books on the Covenanters? >> in this period of Scottish history. >> >> While the below website goes to Boyds, I am sure that others can use it to >> get their own names. At this time it would appear that this is not a full >> Index of Covenanters for this period. >> >> I look forward to your responses. >> >> Mike Boyd >> >> ?I'm sure you have this and probably use it; but just in case, here is a >> Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Index. >> >> >> https://books.google.com/books?id=sTCGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=janet+margaret+geddes+covenanter&source=bl&ots=9xS-LPW3XJ&sig=qR_OrfITh3Skqq-eF39BmERa_bQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLyZHu_9vJAhVM54MKHT_fAPEQ6AEIJDAB#v=onepage&q=Boyd&f=false >> >> many covenanters were prone to migrating?? >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:12:15 +0000 > From: Deborah Rea <deborah.rea94@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > To: Linda <searchinguk@shaw.ca> > Cc: "AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com" <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <CAJneOLzCDo5DHS_gX8BjQAGPjweuqFskgRyaS1nA999WSXRkwg@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Grougar was once in Kilmarnock (and then later in Fenwick after it > separated from Kilmarnock in 1640???). The Wiki article talks about Lord > Loudoun and the Boyds. The Loudouns of Loudoun Castle (situated just above > Galston, Ayrshire) owned vast amounts of land throughout Scotland (and in > England) including Fenwick. The Boyds owned Dean Castle, Kilmarnock. > > Hope this helps. > > Regards, > Debbie Rea > > >> On 16 December 2015 at 02:46, Linda via <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> Dear List Members >> I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came >> across >> this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any >> understanding of the following? >> Thanks, Linda >> >> The Barony of Grougar is a Scottish feudal barony which lies in north >> Ayrshire in the district formerly known as Cunninghame. The earliest known >> family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in >> the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. >> The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, >> arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, >> Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they >> were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment >> of >> the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively >> confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the >> Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were >> barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 >> and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ?one of >> the >> king of England?s enemies? in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 06:08:52 -0500 > From: "Loretta Layman" <Lynneage@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > To: "'Linda'" <searchinguk@shaw.ca> > Cc: AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <00f801d137f2$26dee450$749cacf0$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Linda. Grougar Mains, which presumably was the seat of the 70-acre > barony, is just outside the town of Kilmarnock, less than two kilometers > east of the A77 highway. Go to www.streetmap.co.uk and search for Grougar > Mains. A Wikipedia article at > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverwood,_Ayrshire includes a two-paragraph > description of the barony, one of which states : > > "The Scottish feudal barony of Grougar contained 70 acres of the lands of > Caprickhill, including Holmhead and Miltonmill. In 1742 these lands had > belonged to Thomas Millar and were sold to William Wallace for ?170; in 1811 > the properties were worth ?7,000. Laighmilton also lay in Grougar and in > 1766 its rental was 1s 8d per acre, rising to ?4 per acre in 1811." > > You can see Caprickhill on the above map, just south of Grougar Mains. Zoom > in on Caprickhill, and you'll see Miltonmill just south of that. I don't > see Holmhead or Laighmilton, although the latter may be just Milton today. > Milton lies a bit east-southeast of Milton Mill and beside Grougar Row. > > Loretta > > -----Original Message----- > From: ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Linda via > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:47 PM > To: 'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com' > Subject: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > > Dear List Members > I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came across > this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any > understanding of the following? > Thanks, Linda > > The?Barony of Grougar?is a?Scottish feudal barony?which lies in north > Ayrshire in the district formerly known as?Cunninghame. The earliest known > family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in > the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. > The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, > arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, > Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they > were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment of > the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively > confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the > Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were > barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 > and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ?one of the > king of England?s enemies? in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 16:20:45 -0800 > From: "Linda" <searchinguk@shaw.ca> > Subject: Re: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire > To: "'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com'" <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <004601d13860$c6908170$53b18450$@shaw.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Many thanks to Loretta, Mike, Charles and Deb for your replies and help in > my search for Grugar Mains in East Ayrshire. > It has been all been very helpful and today I have learned just that much > more in the search for my early Logan family. With sincere appreciation > for the guidance. > Cheers and all the best to all for a wonderful Christmas Season > Linda Nordby > Researching Ayrshire's families: > Logan, Frew, Love, Yuille, Kilpatrick, McKean Kerr > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Loretta Layman [mailto:Lynneage@comcast.net] > > Hi Linda. Grougar Mains, which presumably was the seat of the 70-acre > barony, is just outside the town of Kilmarnock, less than two kilometers > east of the A77 highway. Go to www.streetmap.co.uk and search for Grougar > Mains. A Wikipedia article at > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverwood,_Ayrshire includes a two-paragraph > description of the barony, one of which states : > > "The Scottish feudal barony of Grougar contained 70 acres of the lands of > Caprickhill, including Holmhead and Miltonmill. In 1742 these lands had > belonged to Thomas Millar and were sold to William Wallace for ?170; in 1811 > the properties were worth ?7,000. Laighmilton also lay in Grougar and in > 1766 its rental was 1s 8d per acre, rising to ?4 per acre in 1811." > > You can see Caprickhill on the above map, just south of Grougar Mains. Zoom > in on Caprickhill, and you'll see Miltonmill just south of that. I don't > see Holmhead or Laighmilton, although the latter may be just Milton today. > Milton lies a bit east-southeast of Milton Mill and beside Grougar Row. > > Loretta > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the AYRSHIRE list administrator, send an email to > AYRSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the AYRSHIRE mailing list, send an email to AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of AYRSHIRE Digest, Vol 10, Issue 130 > *****************************************

This does not help you in its location but the 7th Lord Boyd, Robert Boyd (1595-1628) "had charters of the barony of Grugar, in Ayrshire, 30 March 1616, with confirmation under the Great Seal 3 August 1619; ..." The Boyds in Ayrshire had land at Kilmarnock - running in a SW to NE direction through Kilmarnock and section section of land than was in a semi circle around the Hunter's; Fairlie and Boyle's lands form Portencross to Largs. I have been studying the Boyd for over 30 years, but I have yet to find this Barony. So if you have not contacted them, I would start with the Burns Centre Library at Kilmarnock. Mike Boyd -----Original Message----- From: Linda via Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 12:46 PM To: 'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com' Subject: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire Dear List Members I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came across this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any understanding of the following? Thanks, Linda The Barony of Grougar is a Scottish feudal barony which lies in north Ayrshire in the district formerly known as Cunninghame. The earliest known family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment of the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ‘one of the king of England’s enemies’ in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks to Loretta, Mike, Charles and Deb for your replies and help in my search for Grugar Mains in East Ayrshire. It has been all been very helpful and today I have learned just that much more in the search for my early Logan family. With sincere appreciation for the guidance. Cheers and all the best to all for a wonderful Christmas Season Linda Nordby Researching Ayrshire's families: Logan, Frew, Love, Yuille, Kilpatrick, McKean Kerr -----Original Message----- From: Loretta Layman [mailto:Lynneage@comcast.net] Hi Linda. Grougar Mains, which presumably was the seat of the 70-acre barony, is just outside the town of Kilmarnock, less than two kilometers east of the A77 highway. Go to www.streetmap.co.uk and search for Grougar Mains. A Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverwood,_Ayrshire includes a two-paragraph description of the barony, one of which states : "The Scottish feudal barony of Grougar contained 70 acres of the lands of Caprickhill, including Holmhead and Miltonmill. In 1742 these lands had belonged to Thomas Millar and were sold to William Wallace for £170; in 1811 the properties were worth £7,000. Laighmilton also lay in Grougar and in 1766 its rental was 1s 8d per acre, rising to £4 per acre in 1811." You can see Caprickhill on the above map, just south of Grougar Mains. Zoom in on Caprickhill, and you'll see Miltonmill just south of that. I don't see Holmhead or Laighmilton, although the latter may be just Milton today. Milton lies a bit east-southeast of Milton Mill and beside Grougar Row. Loretta --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Members A member of a private group that I am on posted this recently This is from the book “The Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Index – (1630-1712), by Isabella MacLean (could not see date of publication). This website has four separate pages where Boyds are mentioned. All the Boyds seem to be dated 1655. I am not sure what other data is available from this Index or the references given. Or if there are family trees to these individual people. I will add this book to my 2016 “todolist” for when I go to Scotland (not sure of timing at this stage), but others might be able to tell tell us more about this source and if there are any other books on the Covenanters’ in this period of Scottish history. While the below website goes to Boyds, I am sure that others can use it to get their own names. At this time it would appear that this is not a full Index of Covenanters for this period. I look forward to your responses. Mike Boyd “I'm sure you have this and probably use it; but just in case, here is a Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Index. https://books.google.com/books?id=sTCGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=janet+margaret+geddes+covenanter&source=bl&ots=9xS-LPW3XJ&sig=qR_OrfITh3Skqq-eF39BmERa_bQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLyZHu_9vJAhVM54MKHT_fAPEQ6AEIJDAB#v=onepage&q=Boyd&f=false many covenanters were prone to migrating?”

Grougar was once in Kilmarnock (and then later in Fenwick after it separated from Kilmarnock in 1640???). The Wiki article talks about Lord Loudoun and the Boyds. The Loudouns of Loudoun Castle (situated just above Galston, Ayrshire) owned vast amounts of land throughout Scotland (and in England) including Fenwick. The Boyds owned Dean Castle, Kilmarnock. Hope this helps. Regards, Debbie Rea On 16 December 2015 at 02:46, Linda via <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Dear List Members > I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came > across > this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any > understanding of the following? > Thanks, Linda > > The Barony of Grougar is a Scottish feudal barony which lies in north > Ayrshire in the district formerly known as Cunninghame. The earliest known > family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in > the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. > The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, > arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, > Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they > were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment > of > the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively > confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the > Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were > barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 > and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ‘one of > the > king of England’s enemies’ in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Mike, I got this book some months ago and didn't find it useful at all. It is merely an index. You would have to have all the books at hand to look up the information and at that point you wouldn't need the index. Regards, Debbie Rea On 16 December 2015 at 02:20, Mike Boyd via <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Members > A member of a private group that I am on posted this recently > > This is from the book “The Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Index – > (1630-1712), by Isabella MacLean (could not see date of publication). This > website has four separate pages where Boyds are mentioned. > > All the Boyds seem to be dated 1655. I am not sure what other data is > available from this Index or the references given. Or if there are family > trees to these individual people. > I will add this book to my 2016 “todolist” for when I go to Scotland (not > sure of timing at this stage), but others might be able to tell tell us > more about this source and if there are any other books on the Covenanters’ > in this period of Scottish history. > > While the below website goes to Boyds, I am sure that others can use it to > get their own names. At this time it would appear that this is not a full > Index of Covenanters for this period. > > I look forward to your responses. > > Mike Boyd > > “I'm sure you have this and probably use it; but just in case, here is a > Scottish Covenanter Genealogical Index. > > > https://books.google.com/books?id=sTCGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=janet+margaret+geddes+covenanter&source=bl&ots=9xS-LPW3XJ&sig=qR_OrfITh3Skqq-eF39BmERa_bQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLyZHu_9vJAhVM54MKHT_fAPEQ6AEIJDAB#v=onepage&q=Boyd&f=false > > many covenanters were prone to migrating?” > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Linda. Grougar Mains, which presumably was the seat of the 70-acre barony, is just outside the town of Kilmarnock, less than two kilometers east of the A77 highway. Go to www.streetmap.co.uk and search for Grougar Mains. A Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverwood,_Ayrshire includes a two-paragraph description of the barony, one of which states : "The Scottish feudal barony of Grougar contained 70 acres of the lands of Caprickhill, including Holmhead and Miltonmill. In 1742 these lands had belonged to Thomas Millar and were sold to William Wallace for £170; in 1811 the properties were worth £7,000. Laighmilton also lay in Grougar and in 1766 its rental was 1s 8d per acre, rising to £4 per acre in 1811." You can see Caprickhill on the above map, just south of Grougar Mains. Zoom in on Caprickhill, and you'll see Miltonmill just south of that. I don't see Holmhead or Laighmilton, although the latter may be just Milton today. Milton lies a bit east-southeast of Milton Mill and beside Grougar Row. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda via Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:47 PM To: 'AYRSHIRE@rootsweb.com' Subject: [AYR] Grugar or Grougar Ayrshire Dear List Members I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came across this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any understanding of the following? Thanks, Linda The Barony of Grougar is a Scottish feudal barony which lies in north Ayrshire in the district formerly known as Cunninghame. The earliest known family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment of the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ‘one of the king of England’s enemies’ in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear List Members I am reading text tonight on the Fuedal families of Ayrshire and came across this on Wiki. Can anyone explain where this Barony of Grougar was? Any understanding of the following? Thanks, Linda The Barony of Grougar is a Scottish feudal barony which lies in north Ayrshire in the district formerly known as Cunninghame. The earliest known family likely to have owned Grougar were the De Morvilles who were there in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries before the reign of Robert the Bruce. The De Morvilles originated in Morville, Department of Manche, Normandy, arrived in England in the wake of the Norman Conquest, settled in Burg, Cumbria, and later moved to Scotland in the early 12th century where they were granted land in Ayrshire. This land grant precedes the establishment of the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland so cannot be positively confirmed. Hugo de Morville[disambiguation needed] who died in 1202 was the Constable of Scotland. By the late thirteenth century the Logan family were barons of Grougar. Thorbrand de Logan baron of Grougar is recorded in 1272 and a John de Logan of Grugar may be the John Logan described as ‘one of the king of England’s enemies’ in 1307 during the Wars of Independence. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Everyone, Yes Ed, I agree with you and thank you Jim for bringing this vote to our attention. Hopefully others will get on board and vote as it would be such a benefit to us all, Cheers and all the best, Linda -----Original Message----- From: ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of edward paxton via Sent: December 5, 2015 5:43 AM To: jbundy48 <jbundy48@comcast.net> Cc: ayrshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AYR] Kilmarnock Standard and British Newspaper Archives Nice idea Jim Kilmarnock Standard up to 17 votes with me casting some. A separate vote for Ayr and Ayrshire papers has a few hundred votes. Regards On 3 December 2015 at 18:52, jbundy48 via <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I've found the above resource helpful with many of my families, > filling in many details of those for whom I had just basic facts. One > newspaper that would be most useful for me, and I think many on the > Ayrshire list, would be the Kilmarnock Standard, quite relevant to > anyone researching in East Ayrshire. I've asked about adding this > newspaper by contacting the British Newspaper Archive staff several > times, but today I received a more helpful answer than just " we're > adding newspapers all the time, and will consider this one". The following is what I received: > " > We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British > Newspaper Archive. > > We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers > will be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on > licensing decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is > not available online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we > are adding thousands of pages every week. > > Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for > newspapers that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: > > We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British > Newspaper Archive. > > We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers > will be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on > licensing decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is > not available online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we > are adding thousands of pages every week. > > Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for > newspapers that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: > > > httpcolonslashslashhelpdashanddashadvice.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk > slashforumsslash243704dashnewspapersdashwedashshoulddashadddashnext > I then searched on Kilmarnock Standard and put in votes for it. I > didn't have to sign in to do this either. If you're interested, let's > get the votes going on it. > Jim Bundy > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- *Edward* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Nice idea Jim Kilmarnock Standard up to 17 votes with me casting some. A separate vote for Ayr and Ayrshire papers has a few hundred votes. Regards On 3 December 2015 at 18:52, jbundy48 via <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I've found the above resource helpful with many of my families, filling in > many details of those for whom I had just basic facts. One newspaper that > would be most useful for me, and I think many on the Ayrshire list, would > be the Kilmarnock Standard, quite relevant to anyone researching in East > Ayrshire. I've asked about adding this newspaper by contacting the British > Newspaper Archive staff several times, but today I received a more helpful > answer than just " we're adding newspapers all the time, and will consider > this one". The following is what I received: > " > We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British > Newspaper Archive. > > We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers will > be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on licensing > decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is not available > online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we are adding > thousands of pages every week. > > Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for newspapers > that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: > > We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British > Newspaper Archive. > > We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers will > be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on licensing > decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is not available > online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we are adding > thousands of pages every week. > > Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for newspapers > that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: > > > httpcolonslashslashhelpdashanddashadvice.britishnewspaperarchive.co.ukslashforumsslash243704dashnewspapersdashwedashshoulddashadddashnext > I then searched on Kilmarnock Standard and put in votes for it. I didn't > have to sign in to do this either. If you're interested, let's get the > votes going on it. > Jim Bundy > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- *Edward*

I am looking to see if the above couple had any children and other descendants N4 Christan Boyd, b / /160x ( , Ireland or Scotland), d / /16xx ( ), bu , m / /163x (church, town, county, etc), David Barclay, son of and (nee ) Barclay, b / /160x ( ), d / /16xx ( ) [Lived: of Kilmarnock ] - David was a merchant of Kilmarnock. This Christian Boyd was the youngest known daughter of M10 Colonel[1] David Boyd, of Tourgill, a natural son, b / /156x ( ), d / /16xx, living 1613 and died before 1623 ( ), bu , Ireland?, m / /159x, Margaret Wallace, Lady Hayning, a widow, dau of Wallace, b / /15xx ( ), d / /16xx ( ), bu , and had issue:- [Lived: ] - He had letters of legitimation under the Great Seal 11 July 1582, and a grant of the lands of Tourgill 8 August 1598. (This was 8 years after his father's death. So who was the grant given by?) David Boyd of Tourgill, Provost, appears as a witness at Edinburgh 6 November 1613. (Why was he made legitimate in 1582? Was this the date that he turned 21 years? - Mike Boyd's questions) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [1]Can his Army record be traced through the British Army Lists of the time? This Colonel David Boyd was the natural son of the fifth Lord Boyd – Robert Boyd – who was quite active in Scottish Politics during and after the reign of Queen Mary of Scots. I am trying to find out which Branch of the Barclay’s this David belong to (and hopefully on my next visit to Kilmarnock next year, I can search in Robertson and Paterson for this family or add to what some list members have been able to tell me). Thank you Mike Boyd Chairman Historical Committee, HBS

Thank you Jim 1) Folks lets vote for the Kilmarnock Standard being Indexed!!! The more noise the more likely we are to get it done. (Would it also be worth writing to the MP that covers Kilmarnock to get them to request it being Indexed?) 2) Jim, do you know when the Standard started? 3) Do the Glasgow Newspapers, that are Indexed cover Ayrshire events? 4) Perhaps I should have asked what is the nearest Newspaper to Kilmarnock that is Indexed? Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust. -----Original Message----- From: jbundy48 via Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 4:52 AM To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [AYR] Kilmarnock Standard and British Newspaper Archives I've found the above resource helpful with many of my families, filling in many details of those for whom I had just basic facts. One newspaper that would be most useful for me, and I think many on the Ayrshire list, would be the Kilmarnock Standard, quite relevant to anyone researching in East Ayrshire. I've asked about adding this newspaper by contacting the British Newspaper Archive staff several times, but today I received a more helpful answer than just " we're adding newspapers all the time, and will consider this one". The following is what I received: " We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British Newspaper Archive. We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers will be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on licensing decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is not available online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we are adding thousands of pages every week. Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for newspapers that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British Newspaper Archive. We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers will be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on licensing decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is not available online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we are adding thousands of pages every week. Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for newspapers that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: httpcolonslashslashhelpdashanddashadvice.britishnewspaperarchive.co.ukslashforumsslash243704dashnewspapersdashwedashshoulddashadddashnext I then searched on Kilmarnock Standard and put in votes for it. I didn't have to sign in to do this either. If you're interested, let's get the votes going on it. Jim Bundy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----- Original Message ----- Hi Mike and List, The complete run of the Kilmarnock Standard starts in 1863, but the Burns Centre Museum also holds 3 other Kilmarnock papers from somewhat earlier times. Currently, the British Newspaper Archives only include 2 newspapers, both from the county town Ayr. While those occasionally have news from East Ayrshire, there's not very much. In the Glasgow newspapers there are occasional items that I've found also. But, I remember seeing quite a bit of interest to me in the Kilmarnock Standard when I was at Kilmarnock in 2011, but just as I was about to photograph pages from it (after some success with other records), my cellphone failed completely. I have a much better one now that I'll use on my next trip. The 2 Ayr papers are the: • Ayr Advertiser, or, West Country Journal(260 pages) Ayrshire Express(52 pages) Hope this helps, and we can get access to the Kilmarnock Standard. More votes apparently moves it up the list to get scanned and indexed.. Jim Bundy I'm toying with the idea of another UK trip in 2016, but we'll see. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Boyd" <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> To: "jbundy48" <jbundy48@comcast.net>, ayrshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:31:49 PM Subject: Re: [AYR] Kilmarnock Standard and British Newspaper Archives Thank you Jim 1) Folks lets vote for the Kilmarnock Standard being Indexed!!! The more noise the more likely we are to get it done. (Would it also be worth writing to the MP that covers Kilmarnock to get them to request it being Indexed?) 2) Jim, do you know when the Standard started? 3) Do the Glasgow Newspapers, that are Indexed cover Ayrshire events? 4) Perhaps I should have asked what is the nearest Newspaper to Kilmarnock that is Indexed? Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust. -----Original Message----- From: jbundy48 via Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 4:52 AM To: ayrshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [AYR] Kilmarnock Standard and British Newspaper Archives I've found the above resource helpful with many of my families, filling in many details of those for whom I had just basic facts. One newspaper that would be most useful for me, and I think many on the Ayrshire list, would be the Kilmarnock Standard, quite relevant to anyone researching in East Ayrshire. I've asked about adding this newspaper by contacting the British Newspaper Archive staff several times, but today I received a more helpful answer than just " we're adding newspapers all the time, and will consider this one". The following is what I received: " We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British Newspaper Archive. We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers will be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on licensing decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is not available online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we are adding thousands of pages every week. Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for newspapers that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British Newspaper Archive. We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers will be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on licensing decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is not available online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we are adding thousands of pages every week. Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for newspapers that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: httpcolonslashslashhelpdashanddashadvice.britishnewspaperarchive.co.ukslashforumsslash243704dashnewspapersdashwedashshoulddashadddashnext I then searched on Kilmarnock Standard and put in votes for it. I didn't have to sign in to do this either. If you're interested, let's get the votes going on it. Jim Bundy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've found the above resource helpful with many of my families, filling in many details of those for whom I had just basic facts. One newspaper that would be most useful for me, and I think many on the Ayrshire list, would be the Kilmarnock Standard, quite relevant to anyone researching in East Ayrshire. I've asked about adding this newspaper by contacting the British Newspaper Archive staff several times, but today I received a more helpful answer than just " we're adding newspapers all the time, and will consider this one". The following is what I received: " We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British Newspaper Archive. We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers will be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on licensing decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is not available online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we are adding thousands of pages every week. Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for newspapers that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: We're glad that you are happy with the service provided by the British Newspaper Archive. We're not able to tell you exactly when or which specific newspapers will be digitised and added to our site as that is dependent on licensing decisions but if the newspaper that you are searching for is not available online at the moment, please do keep checking back as we are adding thousands of pages every week. Alternatively, you can now use our Feedback Forum to vote for newspapers that others have suggested, or suggest one for digitisation: httpcolonslashslashhelpdashanddashadvice.britishnewspaperarchive.co.ukslashforumsslash243704dashnewspapersdashwedashshoulddashadddashnext I then searched on Kilmarnock Standard and put in votes for it. I didn't have to sign in to do this either. If you're interested, let's get the votes going on it. Jim Bundy

Any idea if there are Johnstons in the book? Good hunting, Cliff. On Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:23 PM, Mike Boyd via <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> wrote: During my trip in September/October 2015 to Belfast, I found the above book. Dorothy not only have copied the grave inscription but also some how provided a family tree for that grave (which is very helpful to make sure that this grave fits the family you are researching.  “Most” of the names are Scottish, so if your Scottish family migrated to this area of Northern County Antrim, it would be worth either finding a copy in your Library or contacting Dorothy herself on Email dorothy@ballymoneygraveyard.com  to see where you can buy it from. I can’t recall where I bought the book during this trip or how much I paid for it. There are some 257 graves recorded in it, with only 7 graves that are classed as unreadable. When I went to the 2010 Ballymoney Homecoming, Dorothy had written two other books on one of the Cemeteries there (which is still in one of my packing boxes form my moving houses, so I can’t compare the two books).  But I do recall in that book and as we walked the Cemetery, Dorothy said that people lived in various areas and passed one or two Churches to be buried at Ballymoney.  So that might also be the case of Derrykeighan. I can see from the Index that the name Boyd occurs on 24 pages, so I will have to hurry and sort out my papers form this years trip, so I can start to check to see if any of these are parts of the 82 Boyd Family Chapters I have for County Antrim.  If not I will have create new Family Chapters for these graves and the families outlined. If your family has “disappeared” form Ayrshire or Renfrewshire, they MAY HAVE GONE to northern County Antrim.  So this an the two earlier books on Ballymoney Church yards might tell you where your family migrated to. Thank you Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

During my trip in September/October 2015 to Belfast, I found the above book. Dorothy not only have copied the grave inscription but also some how provided a family tree for that grave (which is very helpful to make sure that this grave fits the family you are researching. “Most” of the names are Scottish, so if your Scottish family migrated to this area of Northern County Antrim, it would be worth either finding a copy in your Library or contacting Dorothy herself on Email dorothy@ballymoneygraveyard.com to see where you can buy it from. I can’t recall where I bought the book during this trip or how much I paid for it. There are some 257 graves recorded in it, with only 7 graves that are classed as unreadable. When I went to the 2010 Ballymoney Homecoming, Dorothy had written two other books on one of the Cemeteries there (which is still in one of my packing boxes form my moving houses, so I can’t compare the two books). But I do recall in that book and as we walked the Cemetery, Dorothy said that people lived in various areas and passed one or two Churches to be buried at Ballymoney. So that might also be the case of Derrykeighan. I can see from the Index that the name Boyd occurs on 24 pages, so I will have to hurry and sort out my papers form this years trip, so I can start to check to see if any of these are parts of the 82 Boyd Family Chapters I have for County Antrim. If not I will have create new Family Chapters for these graves and the families outlined. If your family has “disappeared” form Ayrshire or Renfrewshire, they MAY HAVE GONE to northern County Antrim. So this an the two earlier books on Ballymoney Church yards might tell you where your family migrated to. Thank you Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust.

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Alan and Mary, I have a Thomas GOUDIE/GOLDIE married to Margaret Ann Ro(r)rison HILLHOUSE b 1843 in Stair, Ayr... !CENSUS: Source: 1861 Scotland Census Reg. No.: 608 Reg. District: New Cumnock Civil Parish: New Cumnock County: Ayrshire ED: 1; Page: 11; Line: 9 Household Sched. No.: 58 Roll: CSSCT1861_89 CENSUS: Address: Afton Bridgend Thomas Goldie Head Mar 50 Mary Goldie Wife Head 50 **Thomas Goldie Son Unm 22 Mill-wrights Ap New Cumnock, Ayrshire Fanny Goldie Dau Unm 15 John Goldie Son Unm 10 Martha Goldie Dau Unm 8 John Seton 80 Thomas Reid 17 **Thomas was not very fortunate when it came to marriage, Margaret died in 1867 and from following census he married twice more. By the time of the 1871 census he had re-married to Mary and by the 1891 to an Elisabeth.. Does he connect to either of you. I also have copies of 1841-51-61 census of a Hugh GOLDIE b Sct. and his family living in Sussex, Eng. Regards Jenny -----Original Message----- From: em.paton86 via Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 11:22 PM To: Alan Ritchie ; ayrshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AYR] Goldie/Goudie Hi Alan, On the 1851 for Sorn there's an Alexander Goldie, aged 53, hand loom weaver born New Milns, Ayrshire. he has a wife Marget and children Andrew, Mary Janet Jean Elizabeth Agnes and granddaughter Marget Morrison. All except the last two born New Milns and they were born Catrine. There's a gap between Andrew 34 and Mary 23 so I would guess there were other sons and daughters - possibly another Alexander or Alan. I'd be very interested in any replies you get for this question as I have rather elusive Goldies in Ayrshire. Cheers, Mary --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I have just found a death cert for Margaret Marr( ms Ritchie) who died at Cairn Cottage Coylton. The Informant on the certificate is named Alex or Alan Goldie, Son in Law . I would like to find any information on this man . Is there any kind researcher that could find him in the 1851 ,61 or 71 census for me . Margaret died on 17th feb 1877 Any information would be appreciated Regards Alan Ritchie Gore NEW ZEALAND