Hi Nyle and everyone Would you please tell me what period the below book covers and where I could source it in NZ. I have recently 'discovered' that my GGGrandfather John Arnot came from Beith, Ayr, at least thats the place of birth he gave in the 1851 Census. The only John Arnot born in Ayr around that date (taken from an IGI on the LDS site) was in 1797 to a Thomas Arnot and an Isobel Wallace. I have not been able to find his birth entry in the Parish Records available on ScotlandsPeople or any marriage entry for his parents Thomas and Isobel. From his census records his birth is nearer to 1801 but because his oldest son is named Thomas and his second daughter named Isabel I am inclined to think these might be my Johns parents. I have not been able to find Thomas Arnot and Isobel Walllaces marriage record on ScotlandsPeople, or their birth records (having searched the LDS site also) As A result I have come to a dead end and I would really appreciate it if someone could suggest where to search next. Many thanks Chris Whakatane, New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: <gemwood@xtra.co.nz> To: <ayrshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:10 AM Subject: [AYR] BEITH death records - correction > Anyone using the SAFHS publication - (Scottish Association of Family History Societies) entitled The Parishes, Registers, and Registrars of Scotland...as a catalogue of BDM records for Scotland... > > please note... the death records listed for Beith 1820-1854 - are, in fact, marriage records... > > as advised by NAS in an email to me. > > Nyle > Blenheim NZ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/13/09 07:39:00

I reviewing some burial info and found this as cause. William Davidson, formerly residing in Auchnight? Died 06-Nov 1802, age 56, Cause of death given - Kings evil I just checked Wikipedia and it says "Scrofula", skin diseases, a form of TB - I guess he couldn't find a "Monarch" to touch. Bill

Meg Your John adam c1798 and Mary Cowan... no records fit this couple on the Ayrshire burials CD part 2 - which includes Kilmarnock. Since John jnr died Glasgow, could the parents have moved there, too. Could not identify any of this family on the 1841 census, and could not find a marriage for the parents, or a birth for John 1830 on any of my records. Below is the catalogue web address that should take you to the Scotland's People catalogue. http://www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/pdf/list-of-oprs-576to620.pdf Good luck with your search Nyle

Meg re John Adam 1830 etc The scotsgenealogy website shows MI's available Kilmarnock/Loudoun... I am unsure how many you will find for Kilmarnock in the publication. They also have the CD's of burials - which I have purchased, and will do look-ups for you. I checked Scotland's People website and the deaths listed on their catalogue are Kilmarnock - High Church 1728-81. There are no other death/burials listed Nyle - NZ

In 1547, according to M'Kay book Kilmanrock, there were 11 Adam families in Kilmarnock. This was the fourth largest number after Brown, Boyd and Smith. Mike Boyd Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: <gemwood@xtra.co.nz> To: "Meg Greenwood" <scotquester@bartnet.net> Cc: <AYRSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [AYR] John Adam in 1651 > Meg > > re John Adam 1830 etc > > The scotsgenealogy website shows MI's available Kilmarnock/Loudoun... I > am > unsure how many you will find for Kilmarnock in the publication. They also > have the CD's of burials - which I have purchased, and will do look-ups > for > you. > > I checked Scotland's People website and the deaths listed on their > catalogue > are Kilmarnock - High Church 1728-81. There are no other death/burials > listed > > Nyle - NZ > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: beckantoinette84 Surnames: MacDowall Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/5196.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: My great grandfather's name was Robert Steven MacDowall, born 1858 in Troon, Dundonald. His father's name was John MacDowall b 1831 - he was a pilot (boats) then deputy harbour master at Troon. My grandfather was also John - born 1897 in Greenock. Robert's wife's name was Marion Cuthbert. Her father was Robert Cuthbert b 1821, her mother Janet Wyper. What was you grandfather's name? And your father's? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

For Meg and others - here's what I've been able to find on some of the 18th century Adams. James Adam, bonnetmaker, was born at the end of the 17th century - from his death record, the birth would be around 1684 but I haven't found it. He married twice. The first marriage was to Janet Murchland. Her father was John Murchland, 'farmer in Kilmars', and I don't have the mother's name. (There is a child born to a John Murchland and Grizel Harper, but I think either this was a second marriage of John or it was a different John. I haven't looked out that record.) Alas, the Kilmaurs births don't start until too late for John's marriage and Janet's birth. John Murchland died before his daughter Janet's marriage. James Adam and Janet Murchland had children who were named: Jean (1715) Elizabeth (1718) d.1730 John (1721) Mary (1723) Mary (1727) d. 1737 Janet (1729) d. 1733 John (1732) d. 1733 Janet (or Jean?) (1734) d. 1736 James (1738) At you see from the names and the recorded deaths, they didn't have much luck with the children. I have found death records for most. Quite possibly only James survived, and possibly the oldest, Jean (if the younger child who died was named Janet not Jean - I've not seen the birth record, but the death of the child born in 1734, dying in 1736, is transcribed 'Jean'). Janet Murchland herself died on 21 April 1742 (from 'flux'). James remarried, on 4th September 1742, to Margaret Houston. Their married record describes her only as 'indweller' with no mention of family. They had two children registered: John, b 31 Aug 1744, baptised 2 November 1744 Janet, b 29 Jan 1747, baptised 31 January. 1747. This last child seems to have been the Janet Adam who married James Mushet, nailer in Kilmarnock, around 1771. There's no extant marriage record that I've found. They had many children, and I'm descended from the seventh, John Mushet. Back to the Adam line. James Adam, the bonnetmaker, died in 1756 aged 72, putting his birth around 1684. As said, I haven't found the birth record - however there is a John Adam, bonnetmaker, who died in October 1731 aged 79, who could be a candidate for his father or at least a relative. Most of the other Adam name I've found are of other trades - shoemaker, merchant, etc. So that's where I am just now. As Meg pointed out, the Kilmarnock records aren't complete. But when you find people in the 18th century records, they are excellent as birth numbers and occupations are given. The 17th century records are much more sparse, and there were an awful lot of Adams then. And while James and John Adam were bonnetmakers in Kilmarnock, they may have been born outside the town and other records are not as early as Kilmarnock's. All best - hope this is of use to somebody! Jenny At 11:03 +1000 23/2/10, Mike Boyd wrote: >In 1547, according to M'Kay book Kilmanrock, there were 11 Adam families in >Kilmarnock. This was the fourth largest number after Brown, Boyd and Smith.

Some of my Crawfords of Beith did not appear in the regular records but were buried in the Head Street Churchyard. I found this little book in the Mitchell Library, Glasgow: Interment book of the Head St. U.P. Church from 12th July 1856. The names recorded are: Crawford, Ritchie, Smith, Wilson, Boyd& Glasgow, Jamieson, Anderson, Hopkins, Stewart, Pinkerton, Kerr, Shedden, Pattieson, Orr, Caldwell, Horn, Culbert, Kennedy, Craig, Shaw, Stuart, Swan, McDonald, Young, Howie, Rodger, Calderwood, Gillespie, McArthur, Robertson. In some cases there is only one mention of a name, but it does give the Lair holder's name so that may give another connection to pursue. If anyone wants the dates of interment with a surname let me know. Sheila

Meg: SGS has Kilmarnock MI's as NZ reader noted, but I don't see any linked to your inquiry in Kilmarnock cemeteries. Checked both Adam and Cowan. ecunningham@att.net -- -------------- Original message from <gemwood@xtra.co.nz>: -------------- > Meg > > re John Adam 1830 etc > > The scotsgenealogy website shows MI's available Kilmarnock/Loudoun... I am > unsure how many you will find for Kilmarnock in the publication. They also > have the CD's of burials - which I have purchased, and will do look-ups for > you. > > I checked Scotland's People website and the deaths listed on their catalogue > are Kilmarnock - High Church 1728-81. There are no other death/burials > listed > > Nyle - NZ > > > > -------------------------------To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

I don't know why it's taking so long for everything I post to show up, John, but here's my take on this subject, beginning with definitions from the Scots Dictionary at http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/index.html. It's too bad so many on the list are coming to the same conclusion as you without the advantage of having all the facts and possibilities ... 1. Variant spellings of the verb "walk" include wak, wake, and others. Definitions include, among others: (1) to be or remain awake, esp. at or all night (2) to wake up or awaken from sleep (3) to keep watch over, guard 2. Variant spellings of the noun "hose" include hoes, hois, hois(s)e, hos, howis, and others. Definitions include: (1) a stocking; or stockings of mail as part of a suit of armour (2) the sheath enclosing an ear of corn (3) the neck of a golf-club, where the head is fitted into the shaft With regard to "hose" definition (2), the dictionary also gives this notable example of usage from Ayr. (Aug.) 1802 Farmer's Mag. 390: "Opening the socket, or hose, as it is called, when the number of grains are all formed and just ready to appear." In light of the above, and given that this event occurred in the middle of the Little Ice Age when there was a serious shortage of food, I believe the offense with which the men were accused very likely was guarding their ripening corn when expected to be in church. Loretta Lynn Layman -----Original Message----- From: ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Humphrey Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 8:39 PM Cc: ayrshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AYR] Kilmarnock Kirk Session Minutes, note 61 I agree with Janet that "waking yr hose in the milne" must mean "waulking" (i.e. fulling) their stockings. This was definitely the kind of labour that was forbidden on the Sabbath. And yes, stockings -- or tights -- had to be deliberately wet, kneaded and shrunk to make them thick and tight-fitting. As for the "milne" or mill, the "waulking" was most likely done in Kilmarnock Water, not far from the Kirk. In 1652 there was a millpond there, close to the site of today's Kilmarnock Cross (long since paved over). As Thomas Smellie wrote in 'Sketches of Old Kilmarnock' (1898) Ch. IV: "By a charter granted to Kilmarnock in 1591, permission was given 'to have and hold a market cross'. For many years a corn mill stood at the Cross, on the spot now partly occupied by the monument to Sir James Shaw */[moved to its present position near the Dick Institute in 1929]/*. The mill-wheel was driven by an open lade, which ran from Clerk's Lane, through the Cross, to the old bridge near Cheapside. .. The old mill was removed in 1703, and the stone cross in 1709, when it was 'agreed by the Baillies and Council convened _nemine contradicente_ that the Cross at the Mercat Place, with the stones thereto belonging, be taken down, and that the ground whereon the same stands be caswayed, and that forthwith'." This happened in the summer of 1652 - probably good weather for a wee waulk! John Humphrey (Toronto) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I agree with Janet that "waking yr hose in the milne" must mean "waulking" (i.e. fulling) their stockings. This was definitely the kind of labour that was forbidden on the Sabbath. And yes, stockings -- or tights -- had to be deliberately wet, kneaded and shrunk to make them thick and tight-fitting. As for the "milne" or mill, the "waulking" was most likely done in Kilmarnock Water, not far from the Kirk. In 1652 there was a millpond there, close to the site of today's Kilmarnock Cross (long since paved over). As Thomas Smellie wrote in 'Sketches of Old Kilmarnock' (1898) Ch. IV: "By a charter granted to Kilmarnock in 1591, permission was given 'to have and hold a market cross'. For many years a corn mill stood at the Cross, on the spot now partly occupied by the monument to Sir James Shaw */[moved to its present position near the Dick Institute in 1929]/*. The mill-wheel was driven by an open lade, which ran from Clerk's Lane, through the Cross, to the old bridge near Cheapside. .. The old mill was removed in 1703, and the stone cross in 1709, when it was 'agreed by the Baillies and Council convened _nemine contradicente_ that the Cross at the Mercat Place, with the stones thereto belonging, be taken down, and that the ground whereon the same stands be caswayed, and that forthwith'." This happened in the summer of 1652 - probably good weather for a wee waulk! John Humphrey (Toronto)

RE:Martha Orr as per the original message below... Do you have any details of the Orr family that Martha was the daughter of? Regards, Stuart Orr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:00:38 -0000 From: "gc-gateway@rootsweb.com" <gc-gateway@rootsweb.com> Subject: [AYR] James Skeoch births 1740 to 1842 To: <AYRSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <1266750039.32281@rootsweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: mandiwand Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/13945/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi there, Came across 15 births: 1)James Skeoch b.30 dec 1740 in Ardrossan, Ayr to John Skeoch & Martha Orr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes but ...waulking cloth is to make it shrink ...usually done to tweed. I thought hose meant stockings and stockings would be knitted ...you'd hardly want them to shrink. I think we need Jim to confirm that it is definitely 'hose' and not 'horse' Irene On 22 February 2010 16:52, J Blain <jenny.blain@freeuk.com> wrote: > I think that's a better guess than 'working' which is what I'd > suggested - waulking their hose makes sense. > > Jenny > > >Would "waking yr hose" mean waulking (as in fulling cloth) their hose, > i.e. > >stockings? > > > >The language seems to me to be all Scots (with the odd Latin phrase thrown > >in), don't see any Gaelic in there, > > > >Janet > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks for this Jim, it gives us a great window into the past and I am enjoying the challenge of trying to understand the language that my ancestors once spoke. Is it (the language) a mixture of Gaelic and English? And would my guessing below be close to the mark??? Delations Johne Smyth James Hilhous and Rot Buntein for profaining the sabboth for waking yr hose yt day Johne Smith, James Hilhous and Rot Buntein were Delated (no idea what that means!) for profaining the sabbath because they walked or wakened their horse that day.(????) Chris in New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Bundy" <jbundy48@verizon.net> To: "Rootsweb Ayrshire" <AYRSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 6:25 AM Subject: [AYR] Kilmarnock Kirk Session Minutes, note 61 > Page 83 > > Parents or masters And that the elders of the several quarters sould sie > it done. > > The qlk day Mathow Broun is nominat & appointed ruling elder to wait upon > the several meetings of the presbytrie until the nixt Synod. > > Delations > > George Whyt for drukennes > > Johne Smyth James Hilhous and Rot Buntein for profaining the sabboth for > waking yr hose yt day > > Rot Andrew for slandering his step son and his other faist's dochtir > saying that they wir his mothers deith > > November 10 1652 > > The qlk day Johne Baird called & compeired not is to be sumondit pro > tertio. > > George Whyt being delate and sumondit for drukennes being called & not > compeiring is to be sumondit pro secundo. > > Johne Smyth, James Hilhous and Rot Bountein being delate and sumondit for > profaining the lords day by waking yr hose in the milne. Compeired > confessing to the charges the sabboth said bein passed And the session > finding them sensible of yr sine did rebuke them only judicially > > Compeired Rot Andro for slandering of his stepson and his dochtir after > citation denyed the same, it is referred to further tryall. > > The qlk day the session takeing to consideration the petition of Nicol > Robeson for libertie to build ane citie house in the nook of the church > yaird nixt adjacent to his own dwelling house, and finding no prejudice to > the burial placis of the congregation did grant his petition upon the > lerints contenned in the case after specified > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.406 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/13/09 07:39:00

I think that's a better guess than 'working' which is what I'd suggested - waulking their hose makes sense. Jenny >Would "waking yr hose" mean waulking (as in fulling cloth) their hose, i.e. >stockings? > >The language seems to me to be all Scots (with the odd Latin phrase thrown >in), don't see any Gaelic in there, > >Janet >

Would "waking yr hose" mean waulking (as in fulling cloth) their hose, i.e. stockings? The language seems to me to be all Scots (with the odd Latin phrase thrown in), don't see any Gaelic in there, Janet > Thanks for this Jim, it gives us a great window into the past and I am > enjoying the challenge of trying to understand the language that my > ancestors once spoke. Is it (the language) a mixture of Gaelic and > English? > And would my guessing below be close to the mark??? > > Delations > Johne Smyth James Hilhous and Rot Buntein for profaining the sabboth for > waking yr hose yt day > > > Johne Smith, James Hilhous and Rot Buntein were Delated (no idea what that > means!) for profaining the sabbath because they walked or wakened their > horse that day.(????) > > Chris in New Zealand

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: lmalex25 Surnames: Alexander Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ayr.general/13946/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Does anyone know of the Alexander family that lived in St Quivox, Ayr from mid to late 1940s till early 1950s. Known living relatives are David Alexander born 1950 and Maureen Alexander born 1949. I am trying to trace my father's family as he was put into care at very young age - maybe aged 3 with other siblings one of which is Maureen. Any info now matter how small would be greatly appreciated. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

waulking their hose makes sense. WELLLL if the above makes sense - what does it mean? makes no sense to me, (I am giggling, not being nasty)> Ruth

Dear all, I've been browsing in the transcribed Kilmarnock Kirk Sessions (thanks again Jim!) and found the following (p. 71, Jim's note 50): >Julli 3 1651 >... > >The qlk day compeired Johne Adame denying his railing speiches agt >the session yet the witnessis cld agt him did judiciallie prove the >sammie and the session finding him somewhat sensible of his fault >did think fit only to rebuke him sessionallie. This is interesting - and I'm wondering if there is anything further anywhere about trouble in the ranks... this John Adame may be related to John Adam, bonnetmaker in Kilmarnock, born around 1652. But then there were several Adam families in Kilmarnock. I've noted as well that a William Adam was up on charges of drunkeness, a Janet Adame for fornication with William Reid, and an Issobel Adam lapsed in her church attendance... Fascinating stuff. Anybody else got Adams in their family lines? Jenny

I don't disagree, but what about the word "milne" (mill)? They're about 200 years early for a hosiery mill. Ken C. Albuquerque In a message dated 2/22/2010 8:54:28 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, jenny.blain@freeuk.com writes: I think that's a better guess than 'working' which is what I'd suggested - waulking their hose makes sense. Jenny >Would "waking yr hose" mean waulking (as in fulling cloth) their hose, i.e. >stockings? > >The language seems to me to be all Scots (with the odd Latin phrase thrown >in), don't see any Gaelic in there, > >Janet > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message