Dear Jim, I have basically been a realist about both 23andMe and Family Finder from the very beginning. I have also been encouraging people to test, but I have been trying to not oversell what autosomal DNA can deliver. I realized early on that autosomal analysis was going to be a long drawn out process in which segments of DNA would painstakingly be linked to specific ancestors after a lot of people had been tested. The key here is lots of patience. Unfortunately many of our DNA matches are either unwilling to be in contact with us, unwilling to share genealogical information with us, or unable to provide enough genealogical information so that we can find the genealogical link. The problem is not the test. I think that you should continue to advise that every serious genealogist take the Family Finder DNA test (and/or the 23andMe test). The more people who do the test the more we are going to learn. I would certainly not suggest that you discard all matches under 10 cMs. I suggest you continue to contact these people, but I would suggest that your chance of finding a common ancestor when corresponding with these people is significantly lower than it is when corresponding with people who match you at over 10 cMs. Unfortunately, use and analysis of autosomal DNA is fairly time intensive and many people aren't willing to put the time in that is needed to first of all understand what they are doing and then secondly to correctly interpret the data that they have. So far I have found a 4th cousin of my mother-in-law through 23andMe. I have also found a 3rd cousin once removed and a 5th cousin of my mom's through 23andMe. I have also found some distant cousins of my dad's. I think I would found more cousins with whom I found a genealogical relationship if more people had been willing to share their complete pedigree chart with me. I also have a lot of genealogical brick walls in the 1700s that hamper me. I believe that if all of my matches had accurate pedigree charts going back to 1600 and that I had a completely accurate pedigree chart on all lines going back to 1600 that I would be able to find common ancestors with many of my matches with whom I share a segment in common in the 6 to 10 cM range. Unfortunately, my pedigree chart and my matches' pedigree charts aren't that complete. I would like to encourage you (and everyone else on this list) not to get discouraged about this whole process. Keep working at it! Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bartlett Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:29 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with few clues ? Dear Tim, Thank you for outlining this process. I have very mixed emotions at this point. The main ones are betrayed and upset. I have been pushing (as in selling) Family Finder for the last 18 months - I make presentations at the FHCs in DC and Baltimore at annual workshops, as well as retirement communities and genealogy clubs in the region. I'm asked to speak, because DNA is the most technical word I use - I proclaim that no biology is needed to use the new DNA tools for genealogy, and I keep the presentation and discussions at that level. I have a Masters in engineering and my wife has a PhD in biology - but I try to keep the talks at a level everyone can understand and use. Many have taken my advice: "every serious genealogist should take the Family Finder DNA test." If I understand correctly, the simple rule for genealogy hobbyists is: "discard all matches below 10cM, and focus on the few remaining". Later today I'll see what that does in my case. In my 1024 23&me matches, what should be the equivalent (to 10cM) cutoff - in percent and/or number of segments? Is ANYONE finding any new cousins with FF or 23&me? By this I mean strangers, not the close kin you already know and/or have paid for their tests. What percent of your hitherto unknown matches have worked out? Jim -

If any of the following represents a misunderstanding on my part, please correct me, gently. I had my half-brother FF tested. We share the same father. Any matches we have over 10 cM should be consider IBD. Of the 7500 total cM of atDNA, approximateley 3750 cM can come from one parent. I realize this division can be flexible. Of that approximately 3750 cM, my brother and I actually share 1607.60 cM of atDNA. The largest segment is 196.19 cM, on chr 4. My half-brother has 83 FF matches without me. I made a list of all his > 10 cM matches and compared the names to my list of matches. He has 41 matches > 10 cM, of those sixteen names are on my list of matches. I then downloaded the list of matching locations for these 16 people for both my half-brother and me to a Excel spreadsheet and sorted the information by chromosome and starting location for the matching segments. Most of the > 10 cM matches are on chr 4. My expectation would be that our matches on chr 4 should also match one another to some degree, as many of their location overlap with one another. First, is the above correct? Second, what is the best way to proceed? Marleen Van Horne

Dear Marleen, Everything you are doing so far looks good to me. Contact the 16 people in question and look for a shared ancestor in common with your father for those 16 people. I just uploaded an abbreviated version of the spreadsheet that I use to track all of my mom's 23andMe and Family Finder matches to http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21841126/23andMe%20and%20FF%20matches%20for%20Betty% 20Janzen%20%28public%29.xls. You might want to download that file and use it as a template for tracking your data and your correspondence with matches. I deleted all of the messages and the names of matches from this public version. I don't particularly like 23andMe's messaging system so I copy all my 23andMe messages into this file for my mom's matches. I do the same for correspondence with FF matches. I have separate but similar files for my dad's matches, for my wife's parents' matches, and for matches with my mother's two brothers. I find that keeping all of this information in one place in an Excel spreadsheet really helps me not lose track of important pieces of information. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marleen Van Horne Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 1:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with few clues ? I had my half-brother FF tested. We share the same father. Any matches we have over 10 cM should be consider IBD. My half-brother has 83 FF matches without me. I made a list of all his > 10 cM matches and compared the names to my list of matches. He has 41 matches > 10 cM, of those sixteen names are on my list of matches. Most of the > 10 cM matches are on chr 4. My expectation would be that our matches on chr 4 should also match one another to some degree, as many of their location overlap with one another. First, is the above correct? Second, what is the best way to proceed? Marleen Van Horne