Linda, re: track where the matches are on the 22Ch... I've tried various systems and found that for the smaller segments, I often had matching small segments from two different lines - clearly a non-starter (either the two lines descended from cousins - they had a Common Ancestor - or the segments were IBS not IBD, and therefore junk as a genealogy tool. So I downloaded the FFI file to Excel, then sorted on segment size, then deleted all the lines that were segments shorter than 7.7cM (FTDNA's cutoff). Of 172 matches, one a few had more than one large segment left. I then sorted this group by Ch and then by starting location. This sort grouped all my matches by Chromosome #, and it was fairly easy to scan down the list and pick out the handful that had equal segments or significant overlaps. I then went to the Ch Browser and looked at these folks as a group - to confirm and to see if any smaller segments also match (although I'm not sure what difference that would make). And yes, when I emailed this info to each group, some did confirm that although they matched me as noted, they didn't match one or more of the others in the same way. I find this very puzzling - that two folks can have the same long segment of DNA that is an exact match with me, and yet they don't see such a match when they look at each other. Can anyone explain to my engineer brain why this is so? [to me this is like two lines each being parallel with a third line but not being parallel with each other... QEnot] Anyway, I found the above process a fairly quick and efficient way to find the groups with shared?? atDNA. Jim Bartlett On 01/06/12, Linda<[email protected]> wrote: Thanks to all of you for your really helpful responses. I am in Great Company! I feel much better knowing I am in the same boat as all of you rather than on a sinking rowboat. I have renewed inspiration. Since reading the replies as they have been posted. I have sent out an email to the four individually asking if willing to accept a group mail effort and for confirmation of "Distant Cousin" so I might further check out the "In Common with" feature. Hopefully, good response will lead to asking their also checking the "In Common With" feature. Having tried a number of different ideas: 1. first contact emails; 2. an index card setup to keep track of and cross check 198 matches for Doug (Leon) and near 170 for my own FF matches; 3. a four foot long butcher paper setup to try and keep track of where the matches are on the 22 chromosomes for all those contacts for quick visual reference; 4. trying printouts of the various excel matching reports one to the other; 5. copious notes; 6. posts on the various surname forums; I was looking for an easier, better, more efficient, productive, ............... when you guys find it, please let me know. Thanks for all the great posts. Linda McKee ______________________________ For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: [1]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to A[2][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html 2. mailto:[email protected]

Jim, If you have AG at a location and you have two matches one of whom has AA and the other has GG, you will  match both, but they will not match each other.  FF has no way to know which of your parents you inherited the A from and which you inherited the G from. Regards, Larry ________________________________ From: Jim Bartlett <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Subject: How do you work a 5 way FF match with few clues ?   And yes, when I emailed this info to each group, some did confirm that   although they matched me as noted, they didn't match one or more of the   others in the same way. I find this very puzzling - that two folks can have   the same long segment of DNA that is an exact match with me, and yet they   don't see such a match when they look at each other. Can anyone explain to   my engineer brain why this is so? [to me this is like two lines each being   parallel with a third line but not being parallel with each other... QEnot]   Jim Bartlett

if you have a parent and child test with FF is the difference the mothers? Karen On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Larry Vick <[email protected]> wrote: > Jim, > > If you have AG at a location and you have two matches one of whom has AA > and the other has GG, you will match both, but they will not match each > other. FF has no way to know which of your parents you inherited the A > from and which you inherited the G from. > > Regards, > > Larry > > > ________________________________ > From: Jim Bartlett <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 4:46 PM > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Subject: How do you work a 5 way FF match > with few clues ? > > > > > And yes, when I emailed this info to each group, some did confirm that > although they matched me as noted, they didn't match one or more of the > others in the same way. I find this very puzzling - that two folks can > have > the same long segment of DNA that is an exact match with me, and yet > they > don't see such a match when they look at each other. Can anyone explain > to > my engineer brain why this is so? [to me this is like two lines each > being > parallel with a third line but not being parallel with each other... > QEnot] > > > > > Jim Bartlett > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It could be a sign that some of those segments are Identical by State. As noted by others in this thread, we're looking at genotypes, where we don't know which allele came from each parent. If you could split the genotypes into their two haplotypes, this would clarify the picture. That generally takes father/mother/child trio data, though. For the initial query in this thread, pair-wise comparisons of everyone with everyone else is a reasonable first pass at deciding whether the segment comes from a single common ancestor. Ann Turner On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Jim Bartlett <[email protected]>wrote: > And yes, when I emailed this info to each group, some did confirm that > although they matched me as noted, they didn't match one or more of the > others in the same way. I find this very puzzling - that two folks can > have > the same long segment of DNA that is an exact match with me, and yet they > don't see such a match when they look at each other. Can anyone explain > to > my engineer brain why this is so? [to me this is like two lines each > being > parallel with a third line but not being parallel with each other... > QEnot] >

Jim, my explanation is not that of an engineer, let alone a geneticist; simply a stumbling, fumbling amateur trying to climb up the learning curve. I believe this can be - and I love your analogy of lines parallel to a 3rd line not being parallel to each other! - because the technology + the structure of our chromosomes is that our instruments are half blind. The computer says this little point on the chromosome is A,G but it may in fact be G, A for all we know. It's like reading two x-rays one on top of the other and not knowing which thing you're seeing is in the right arm and which is in the left - to force an odd and ungraceful analogy. Before I tread further, I think I'll just cry for help and hope someone steps in here to save me - and us! ;-) On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Jim Bartlett <[email protected]> wrote: > >   Linda, > >   re: track where the matches are on the 22Ch... I've tried various systems >   and found that for the smaller segments, I often had matching small segments >   from two different lines - clearly a non-starter (either the two lines >   descended from cousins - they had a Common Ancestor - or the segments were >   IBS not IBD, and therefore junk as a genealogy tool. > >   So I downloaded the FFI file to Excel, then sorted on segment size, then >   deleted  all  the lines that were segments shorter than 7.7cM (FTDNA's >   cutoff). Of 172 matches, one a few had more than one large segment left.  I >   then  sorted this group by Ch and then by starting location. This sort >   grouped all my matches by Chromosome #, and it was fairly easy to scan down >   the list and pick out the handful that had equal segments or significant >   overlaps. I then went to the Ch Browser and looked at these folks as a group >   - to confirm and to see if any smaller segments also match (although I'm not >   sure what difference that would make). > >   And yes, when I emailed this info to each group, some did confirm that >   although they matched me as noted, they didn't match one or more of the >   others in the same way. I find this very puzzling - that two folks can have >   the same long segment of DNA that is an exact match with me, and yet they >   don't see such a match when they look at each other. Can anyone explain to >   my engineer brain why this is so? [to me this is like two lines each being >   parallel with a third line but not being parallel with each other... QEnot] > >   Anyway, I found the above process a fairly quick and efficient way to find >   the groups with shared?? atDNA. > > >   Jim Bartlett > >   On 01/06/12, Linda<[email protected]> wrote: > >   Thanks to all of you for your really helpful responses. I am in Great >   Company! >   I feel much better knowing I am in the same boat as all of you rather >   than on a sinking rowboat. I have renewed inspiration. >   Since reading the replies as they have been posted. I have sent out an >   email to the four individually asking if willing to accept a group mail >   effort and for confirmation of "Distant Cousin" so I might further check >   out the "In Common with" feature. Hopefully, good response will lead to >   asking their also checking the "In Common With" feature. >   Having tried a number of different ideas: >   1. first contact emails; >   2. an index card setup to keep track of and cross check 198 matches for >   Doug (Leon) and near 170 for my own FF matches; >   3. a four foot long butcher paper setup to try and keep track of where >   the matches are on the 22 chromosomes for all those contacts for quick >   visual reference; >   4. trying printouts of the various excel matching reports one to the >   other; >   5. copious notes; >   6. posts on the various surname forums; >   I was looking for an easier, better, more efficient, productive, >   ............... when you guys find it, please let me know. >   Thanks for all the great posts. Linda McKee >   ______________________________ >   For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: >   [1]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html >   ------------------------------- >   To   unsubscribe   from   the   list,   please   send   an   email  to >   A[2][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >   the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > References > >   1. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html >   2. mailto:[email protected] > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message