Tim Thanks for your experience, and for your proactive recommendations I will continue to recommend Family Finder and Y-DNA as powerful tools for genealogists. I just wrote a DNA Article that will be published later this month, I speak to the Montgomery Co, MD Gen Soc later this month and to the DC FHC in early May. For genealogists, my message will continue to be that FF matches are probably cousins, and the more DNA that's shared the higher the probability. Share all of your ancestry with all of your matches! I also agree that the limiting factor is not the tool, but the limited knowledge we and our matches have about our ancestries. More on this in a separate thread. Thanks again, Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Jan 7, 2012, at 2:33 PM, "Tim Janzen" <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Jim, > I have basically been a realist about both 23andMe and Family Finder > from the very beginning. I have also been encouraging people to test, but I > have been trying to not oversell what autosomal DNA can deliver. I realized > early on that autosomal analysis was going to be a long drawn out process in > which segments of DNA would painstakingly be linked to specific ancestors > after a lot of people had been tested. The key here is lots of patience. > Unfortunately many of our DNA matches are either unwilling to be in contact > with us, unwilling to share genealogical information with us, or unable to > provide enough genealogical information so that we can find the genealogical > link. The problem is not the test. I think that you should continue to > advise that every serious genealogist take the Family Finder DNA test > (and/or the 23andMe test). The more people who do the test the more we are > going to learn. I would certainly not suggest that you discard all matches > under 10 cMs. I suggest you continue to contact these people, but I would > suggest that your chance of finding a common ancestor when corresponding > with these people is significantly lower than it is when corresponding with > people who match you at over 10 cMs. Unfortunately, use and analysis of > autosomal DNA is fairly time intensive and many people aren't willing to put > the time in that is needed to first of all understand what they are doing > and then secondly to correctly interpret the data that they have. > So far I have found a 4th cousin of my mother-in-law through > 23andMe. I have also found a 3rd cousin once removed and a 5th cousin of my > mom's through 23andMe. I have also found some distant cousins of my dad's. > I think I would found more cousins with whom I found a genealogical > relationship if more people had been willing to share their complete > pedigree chart with me. I also have a lot of genealogical brick walls in > the 1700s that hamper me. I believe that if all of my matches had accurate > pedigree charts going back to 1600 and that I had a completely accurate > pedigree chart on all lines going back to 1600 that I would be able to find > common ancestors with many of my matches with whom I share a segment in > common in the 6 to 10 cM range. Unfortunately, my pedigree chart and my > matches' pedigree charts aren't that complete. I would like to encourage > you (and everyone else on this list) not to get discouraged about this whole > process. Keep working at it! > Sincerely, > Tim Janzen > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bartlett > Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:29 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with > few clues ? > > Dear Tim, > > Thank you for outlining this process. I have very mixed emotions at this > point. The main ones are betrayed and upset. I have been pushing (as in > selling) Family Finder for the last 18 months - I make presentations at the > FHCs in DC and Baltimore at annual workshops, as well as retirement > communities and genealogy clubs in the region. I'm asked to speak, because > DNA is the most technical word I use - I proclaim that no biology is needed > to use the new DNA tools for genealogy, and I keep the presentation and > discussions at that level. I have a Masters in engineering and my wife has a > PhD in biology - but I try to keep the talks at a level everyone can > understand and use. Many have taken my advice: "every serious genealogist > should take the Family Finder DNA test." > > If I understand correctly, the simple rule for genealogy hobbyists is: > "discard all matches below 10cM, and focus on the few remaining". Later > today I'll see what that does in my case. In my 1024 23&me matches, what > should be the equivalent (to 10cM) cutoff - in percent and/or number of > segments? > > Is ANYONE finding any new cousins with FF or 23&me? By this I mean > strangers, not the close kin you already know and/or have paid for their > tests. What percent of your hitherto unknown matches have worked out? > > Jim

Jim when/where are these MC and DC events - I'll try to come to one :) On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Jim Bartlett <[email protected]> wrote: > Tim > > Thanks for your experience, and for your proactive recommendations > > I will continue to recommend Family Finder and Y-DNA as powerful tools for genealogists. I just wrote a DNA Article that will be published later this month, I speak to the Montgomery Co, MD Gen Soc later this month and to the DC FHC in early May. > > For genealogists, my message will continue to be that FF matches are probably cousins, and the more DNA that's shared the higher the probability. Share all of your ancestry with all of your matches! > > I also agree that the limiting factor is not the tool, but the limited knowledge we and our matches have about our ancestries. More on this in a separate thread. > > Thanks again, > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > On Jan 7, 2012, at 2:33 PM, "Tim Janzen" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear Jim, >>    I have basically been a realist about both 23andMe and Family Finder >> from the very beginning.  I have also been encouraging people to test, but I >> have been trying to not oversell what autosomal DNA can deliver.  I realized >> early on that autosomal analysis was going to be a long drawn out process in >> which segments of DNA would painstakingly be linked to specific ancestors >> after a lot of people had been tested.  The key here is lots of patience. >> Unfortunately many of our DNA matches are either unwilling to be in contact >> with us, unwilling to share genealogical information with us, or unable to >> provide enough genealogical information so that we can find the genealogical >> link.  The problem is not the test.  I think that you should continue to >> advise that every serious genealogist take the Family Finder DNA test >> (and/or the 23andMe test).  The more people who do the test the more we are >> going to learn.  I would certainly not suggest that you discard all matches >> under 10 cMs.  I suggest you continue to contact these people, but I would >> suggest that your chance of finding a common ancestor when corresponding >> with these people is significantly lower than it is when corresponding with >> people who match you at over 10 cMs.  Unfortunately, use and analysis of >> autosomal DNA is fairly time intensive and many people aren't willing to put >> the time in that is needed to first of all understand what they are doing >> and then secondly to correctly interpret the data that they have. >>    So far I have found a 4th cousin of my mother-in-law through >> 23andMe.  I have also found a 3rd cousin once removed and a 5th cousin of my >> mom's through 23andMe.  I have also found some distant cousins of my dad's. >> I think I would found more cousins with whom I found a genealogical >> relationship if more people had been willing to share their complete >> pedigree chart with me.  I also have a lot of genealogical brick walls in >> the 1700s that hamper me.  I believe that if all of my matches had accurate >> pedigree charts going back to 1600 and that I had a completely accurate >> pedigree chart on all lines going back to 1600 that I would be able to find >> common ancestors with many of my matches with whom I share a segment in >> common in the 6 to 10 cM range.  Unfortunately, my pedigree chart and my >> matches' pedigree charts aren't that complete.  I would like to encourage >> you (and everyone else on this list) not to get discouraged about this whole >> process.  Keep working at it! >> Sincerely, >> Tim Janzen >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bartlett >> Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:29 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with >> few clues ? >> >> Dear Tim, >> >> Thank you for outlining this process. I have very mixed emotions at this >> point. The main ones are betrayed and upset. I have been pushing (as in >> selling) Family Finder for the last 18 months - I make presentations at the >> FHCs in DC and Baltimore at annual workshops, as well as retirement >> communities and genealogy clubs in the region. I'm asked to speak, because >> DNA is the most technical word I use - I proclaim that no biology is needed >> to use the new DNA tools for genealogy, and I keep the presentation and >> discussions at that level. I have a Masters in engineering and my wife has a >> PhD in biology - but I try to keep the talks at a level everyone can >> understand and use.  Many have taken my advice: "every serious genealogist >> should take the Family Finder DNA test." >> >> If I understand correctly, the simple rule for genealogy hobbyists is: >> "discard all matches below 10cM, and focus on the few remaining". Later >> today I'll see what that does in my case. In my 1024 23&me matches, what >> should be the equivalent (to 10cM) cutoff - in percent and/or number of >> segments? >> >> Is ANYONE finding any new cousins with FF or 23&me? By this I mean >> strangers, not the close kin you already know and/or have paid for their >> tests. What percent of your hitherto unknown matches have worked out? >> >> Jim > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dwight The LDS FHC is in Kensington, adjacent to the temple you see from the beltway - it's an all-day workshop on Sat 5 May. Send an email to [email protected] to pre-register/free (and get their outstanding Newsletter) I don't know where the MCGS meets - in Rockville, I think - I'd better look it up... Wed 25 Jan 7:30pm. Hope to see you at one of these. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Jan 7, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Dwight Holmes <[email protected]> wrote: > Jim when/where are these MC and DC events - I'll try to come to one :) > > On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Jim Bartlett <[email protected]> wrote: >> Tim >> >> Thanks for your experience, and for your proactive recommendations >> >> I will continue to recommend Family Finder and Y-DNA as powerful tools for genealogists. I just wrote a DNA Article that will be published later this month, I speak to the Montgomery Co, MD Gen Soc later this month and to the DC FHC in early May. >> >> For genealogists, my message will continue to be that FF matches are probably cousins, and the more DNA that's shared the higher the probability. Share all of your ancestry with all of your matches! >> >> I also agree that the limiting factor is not the tool, but the limited knowledge we and our matches have about our ancestries. More on this in a separate thread. >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! >> >> On Jan 7, 2012, at 2:33 PM, "Tim Janzen" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Dear Jim, >>> I have basically been a realist about both 23andMe and Family Finder >>> from the very beginning. I have also been encouraging people to test, but I >>> have been trying to not oversell what autosomal DNA can deliver. I realized >>> early on that autosomal analysis was going to be a long drawn out process in >>> which segments of DNA would painstakingly be linked to specific ancestors >>> after a lot of people had been tested. The key here is lots of patience. >>> Unfortunately many of our DNA matches are either unwilling to be in contact >>> with us, unwilling to share genealogical information with us, or unable to >>> provide enough genealogical information so that we can find the genealogical >>> link. The problem is not the test. I think that you should continue to >>> advise that every serious genealogist take the Family Finder DNA test >>> (and/or the 23andMe test). The more people who do the test the more we are >>> going to learn. I would certainly not suggest that you discard all matches >>> under 10 cMs. I suggest you continue to contact these people, but I would >>> suggest that your chance of finding a common ancestor when corresponding >>> with these people is significantly lower than it is when corresponding with >>> people who match you at over 10 cMs. Unfortunately, use and analysis of >>> autosomal DNA is fairly time intensive and many people aren't willing to put >>> the time in that is needed to first of all understand what they are doing >>> and then secondly to correctly interpret the data that they have. >>> So far I have found a 4th cousin of my mother-in-law through >>> 23andMe. I have also found a 3rd cousin once removed and a 5th cousin of my >>> mom's through 23andMe. I have also found some distant cousins of my dad's. >>> I think I would found more cousins with whom I found a genealogical >>> relationship if more people had been willing to share their complete >>> pedigree chart with me. I also have a lot of genealogical brick walls in >>> the 1700s that hamper me. I believe that if all of my matches had accurate >>> pedigree charts going back to 1600 and that I had a completely accurate >>> pedigree chart on all lines going back to 1600 that I would be able to find >>> common ancestors with many of my matches with whom I share a segment in >>> common in the 6 to 10 cM range. Unfortunately, my pedigree chart and my >>> matches' pedigree charts aren't that complete. I would like to encourage >>> you (and everyone else on this list) not to get discouraged about this whole >>> process. Keep working at it! >>> Sincerely, >>> Tim Janzen >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bartlett >>> Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:29 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with >>> few clues ? >>> >>> Dear Tim, >>> >>> Thank you for outlining this process. I have very mixed emotions at this >>> point. The main ones are betrayed and upset. I have been pushing (as in >>> selling) Family Finder for the last 18 months - I make presentations at the >>> FHCs in DC and Baltimore at annual workshops, as well as retirement >>> communities and genealogy clubs in the region. I'm asked to speak, because >>> DNA is the most technical word I use - I proclaim that no biology is needed >>> to use the new DNA tools for genealogy, and I keep the presentation and >>> discussions at that level. I have a Masters in engineering and my wife has a >>> PhD in biology - but I try to keep the talks at a level everyone can >>> understand and use. Many have taken my advice: "every serious genealogist >>> should take the Family Finder DNA test." >>> >>> If I understand correctly, the simple rule for genealogy hobbyists is: >>> "discard all matches below 10cM, and focus on the few remaining". Later >>> today I'll see what that does in my case. In my 1024 23&me matches, what >>> should be the equivalent (to 10cM) cutoff - in percent and/or number of >>> segments? >>> >>> Is ANYONE finding any new cousins with FF or 23&me? By this I mean >>> strangers, not the close kin you already know and/or have paid for their >>> tests. What percent of your hitherto unknown matches have worked out? >>> >>> Jim >> >> >> >> ______________________________ >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: >> http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message