Karen, This puts the spotlight on the key point. Clearly the 16-76 segment is probably IBD (13.87cM) and it was passed down from one of your Dad's ancestors. The same identical segment was almost certainly passed down from the same ancestor to the Adoptee. This IBD segment has to come down to your Dad [2], through his father [4] or mother [5] [numbers in brackets are Ahnentafel numbers], from a specific ancestor. Now the 3rd Match's 70-76 segment at 5.32 cM may or may not be IBD, but this segment MUST come down from one of your Dad's ancestors to your Dad (and you). Like the above example it MUST come down through your Dad's father [4] or mother [5] from some specific ancestor. It is possible for the 13.87 segment to come down from, say, [4], and the 5.32 segment to come down from the other ancestor [5]. That is - any area on a Chromosome will have a segment from the paternal side and a segment from the maternal side. And each of these segments is from a specific ancestor on that respective side. It is possible for two large identical IBD segments to be from different parents. But if there are 3 such segments (from cousins, not parent-child) at least two of these large identical IBD segments must come from the same parent, AND from the same ancestor. It's a judgement call, but since your 3rd Match segment overlaps the 13.87 segment and ends at exactly the same place, I think it's highly probable that that 5.32 segment came from the same ancestor as the 13.87 segment, and lost some atDNA along the way to the 3rd Match. So if you and the 3rd Match can determine a Common Ancestor, the Adoptee could use that info. If I were the Adoptee, I'd learn as much about the descendants of that Common Ancestor as I could. Someday when another Common Ancestor is found for the Adoptee, and the descendants of that Ancestor are traced - sooner or later one of the descendants between these two lines could match - get an atDNA test of a descendant of that match and see if it isn't a VERY close atMatch to the Adoptee. I hope anyone on this list will correct me if the concepts above are not correct. This atDNA process is beginning to be very intersting. Jim Bartlett On 03/14/12, Karen Hodges<[email protected]> wrote: Hi Jim Thanks Chromosome 11 - 4 matches on Dad's list plus Adoptee and 3 on mine. But only one looks IBD Adoptee to me 61922748-76029213 segment 13.87, SNPS 3400 Adoptee to dad 61594120-76029213 segment 13.97 SNPS 3500 3rd Match [to dad and I] 70559577-76029213 segment 5.32 SNPS 1200 The adoptee won't be able to check their record for a few weeks so I will contact the other match. Karen On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Jim Bartlett <[1][email protected]>wrote: > Karen > > One idea, particularly for adopters, is to determine which long atDNA > segment you share, and then both of you examine all of your other matches > for overlapping segments, particularly long ones. Such long segments can > only come from two of your Dad's ancestors, one one his paternal side and > one from the maternal side. (this is based on such long segments being IBD, > and not all of them will be, but it's a place to look). If you can find a > Common Ancestor with a third joint match, there is a 50-50 chance that the > adoptee will have the same one. The adoptees should be collecting and > analyzing this kind of clue. > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > On Mar 14, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Karen Hodges <[2][email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Tim, Ann, Jim and Melissa > > > > Thank you all for your help. > > > > I have been contact by a person who has been adopted as a baby and has no > > information about their biological family. The person lives in England > and > > I live in Australia. The connection is on my paternal side as they match > > with my Dad. > > > > I have no idea how to go about sorting out how we connect. Dad is listed > > as a 3rd - 5th cousin[13.97cMs snp 3500] and I am listed as a 4th to > remote > > [13.87cMs, snp 3400]. Dad had an English Great Great Grandfather who was > > married with a child [I have not found them] when he was sent to > Australia > > in 1826. He remarried and had a second family which Dad descends from. > This > > is possibly the line we connect on and that was the reason behind my > > question as I wondered if it might effect the cousin level. > > > > Karen > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ann Turner <[3][email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On the average, a half-third cousin would share the same amount of DNA > as a > >> third cousin once removed (i.e., between a third and fourth cousin). The > >> range displayed by FF should be bigger to account for the random > element. > >> > >> Ann Turner > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Karen Hodges <[4][email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> With Family finder the results say what level cousin the match is > >> expected > >>> to be. What happens in the case of half siblings with what level the > >> cousin > >>> will show at? For example if a woman marriages twice and has a child > with > >>> each father. The grandchildren are 1st cousins and the great > >> grandchildren > >>> 2nd cousins and great great grandchildren 3rd cousins. But when it > comes > >>> to reading the DNA family finder result would it show the relationship > as > >>> this or would it be more distant as the DNA shared is half to begin > with. > >>> Would a half third cousin be shown as maybe a third to fifth cousin? > >>> > >>> Karen > >>> > >> > >> > >> ______________________________ > >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > >> [5]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> A[6][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ______________________________ > > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > > [7]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > A[8][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > [9]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > A[10][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ______________________________ For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: [11]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to A[12][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html 10. mailto:[email protected] 11. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html 12. mailto:[email protected]