Pardon, list if this query has been posted many times before, but I have the opportunity to test a range of 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins of both my parents, and I would like guidance on how to get the most bang for my buck. I can see potential arguments for especially 1st v. 2nd cousins, where the relationship is still close enough to yield a significant number of matches. I guess the question comes down to the number of matches you get vs. the degree of isolation; does anyone have particular thoughts on this? Thanks, Barton

Dear Barton, This really boils down to how many first, 2nd, and 3rd cousins you have to test and how much money you want to spend on testing. If you have a lot of money and a lot of 3rd cousins willing to test, then that would be a reasonable way to go. I personally think you get the most "bang for the buck" with 2nd cousins. You get up to 3% to 4% of your genome mapped for each 2nd cousin you test. If were you I would probably start by seeing how many 2nd cousins you can round up for testing. Test them and see how your chromosome map looks at that point. If need be use first cousins to fill in the rest of the gaps. For my mom I have mapped a little over 80% of her DNA using data from 2 first cousins, 12 second cousins, 6 third cousins, and a smattering of more distant relatives. I wish she had more first cousins available for testing so that I could map the remaining 20%. Instead, I will need to keep pursuing 2nd cousins for testing and hope that some of those help me whittle away at the remaining 20% I still need to map. Keep in mind that there is a diminishing return for each 2nd or 3rd cousin from the same family you test. Five of the twelve 2nd cousins of my mom that I have tested are siblings. Needless to say, I didn't get that much new data to map from the last several of these siblings that I tested. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barton Lewis Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 8:41 PM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Who to test ?? Pardon, list if this query has been posted many times before, but I have the opportunity to test a range of 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins of both my parents, and I would like guidance on how to get the most bang for my buck. I can see potential arguments for especially 1st v. 2nd cousins, where the relationship is still close enough to yield a significant number of matches. I guess the question comes down to the number of matches you get vs. the degree of isolation; does anyone have particular thoughts on this? Thanks, Barton

This is very helpful, Tim, thank you very much. I will concentrate on the second cousins I have located and continue seeking those out for testing. By the way, I just took the Family Finder, at last convinced of the benefits of my testing while I have both parents' results. I am rereading your instructions on phasing and reviewing the spreadsheets, and am excited about trying this out. It's a brave new world! Regards, Barton -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tim Janzen Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:03 PM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Who to test ?? Dear Barton, This really boils down to how many first, 2nd, and 3rd cousins you have to test and how much money you want to spend on testing. If you have a lot of money and a lot of 3rd cousins willing to test, then that would be a reasonable way to go. I personally think you get the most "bang for the buck" with 2nd cousins. You get up to 3% to 4% of your genome mapped for each 2nd cousin you test. If were you I would probably start by seeing how many 2nd cousins you can round up for testing. Test them and see how your chromosome map looks at that point. If need be use first cousins to fill in the rest of the gaps. For my mom I have mapped a little over 80% of her DNA using data from 2 first cousins, 12 second cousins, 6 third cousins, and a smattering of more distant relatives. I wish she had more first cousins available for testing so that I could map the remaining 20%. Instead, I will need to keep pursuing 2nd cousins for testing and hope that some of those help me whittle away at the remaining 20% I still need to map. Keep in mind that there is a diminishing return for each 2nd or 3rd cousin from the same family you test. Five of the twelve 2nd cousins of my mom that I have tested are siblings. Needless to say, I didn't get that much new data to map from the last several of these siblings that I tested. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barton Lewis Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 8:41 PM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Who to test ?? Pardon, list if this query has been posted many times before, but I have the opportunity to test a range of 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins of both my parents, and I would like guidance on how to get the most bang for my buck. I can see potential arguments for especially 1st v. 2nd cousins, where the relationship is still close enough to yield a significant number of matches. I guess the question comes down to the number of matches you get vs. the degree of isolation; does anyone have particular thoughts on this? Thanks, Barton ______________________________ For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUTOSOMAL-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Barton It all depends on your objectives. You can map your atDNA at any generational level. If you want to map your atDNA with the contribution of large segments from your 4 grandparents, you need 2nd cousins and above to determine which segments are from each grandparent. If you want to map a particular ancestor (including a parent) you have to test many descendants of that person. If you want to map your atDNA to the smallest segment practicable, you need as many Matches as you can get (test at all 3 companies, and use GEDmatch) - you'll need Common Ancestors for about 500 segments in the 7-15cM range. If you want to map whatever you can over your genome, it doesn't make much difference. You'll get 1 small IBD segment from most distant cousins; and multiple, larger segments from close cousins. So there is a tradeoff between coverage over a larger area from close ancestors with closer cousins vs smaller segments from distant ancestors with more distant cousins. If you have funds and plenty of cousins to choose from, spread them out to cover all ancestors as evenly as you can and select cousins as widely separated as possible for the best coverage. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 5, 2013, at 11:41 PM, Barton Lewis <bartonlewis@optonline.net> wrote: > Pardon, list if this query has been posted many times before, but I have the > opportunity to test a range of 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins of both my parents, > and I would like guidance on how to get the most bang for my buck. I can > see potential arguments for especially 1st v. 2nd cousins, where the > relationship is still close enough to yield a significant number of matches. > I guess the question comes down to the number of matches you get vs. the > degree of isolation; does anyone have particular thoughts on this? > > Thanks, > > Barton

Barton Let me revise my other response. Test the closest relatives first for the biggest bang for bucks. Grandparents, Aunts/Uncles, Half Siblings all have the most shared DNA (25 pct); with first cousins next (12.5 pct). These will help you determine which side all your other matches are on - when a Match with you also matches your close relative, you immediately know which parent's chromosome the Match is on. With several close relatives tested, you can assign many of your Matches. Siblings (50 pct) are also helpful, but you have to go through an intermediate drill to determine which segments are HIR and which are Full, and which HIR segments are on which side, and this gets you back to an effective (25 pct) - unless you use phasing techniques. Unless you can determine phased segments with a sibling, it's much easier to just use close relatives directly. I am about 80 pct assigned using known relatives. And new random Matches are being added almost every day, inching that pct up. So testing close (50 & 25 pct) relatives will leverage many of your other Matches - get them working for you on the right Chr - and thus they have the highest value in mapping. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 5, 2013, at 11:41 PM, Barton Lewis <bartonlewis@optonline.net> wrote: > Pardon, list if this query has been posted many times before, but I have the > opportunity to test a range of 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins of both my parents, > and I would like guidance on how to get the most bang for my buck. I can > see potential arguments for especially 1st v. 2nd cousins, where the > relationship is still close enough to yield a significant number of matches. > I guess the question comes down to the number of matches you get vs. the > degree of isolation; does anyone have particular thoughts on this? > > Thanks, > > Barton

Barton Another revision in your particular case. With both your parents tested, you can use the GEDmatch utility to phase your own results. The gives you two new files: your atDNA from each parent. You can then run a GEDmatch utility to assign all your GEDmatch matches to a parent or IBS. Use these assigned matches in Triangulated Groups in your spreadsheet, to also assign most of your matches who are not on GEDmatch. Then you're back to deciding whether you want to map grandparents to your genome, or as distant an ancestor as you can. In either case, mapping grandparents on your genome will be very revealing, and is always a good step and review point. Use Kitty's mapper with grandparents as the MRCA to track your results, and do a quality check at this level. This is recommended for everyone who is mapping chromosomes. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 5, 2013, at 11:41 PM, Barton Lewis <bartonlewis@optonline.net> wrote: > Pardon, list if this query has been posted many times before, but I have the > opportunity to test a range of 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins of both my parents, > and I would like guidance on how to get the most bang for my buck. I can > see potential arguments for especially 1st v. 2nd cousins, where the > relationship is still close enough to yield a significant number of matches. > I guess the question comes down to the number of matches you get vs. the > degree of isolation; does anyone have particular thoughts on this? > > Thanks, > > Barton >

hi Jim, thanks for all your suggestions.  I only yesterday purchased Family Finder for myself, having finally become convinced as to the usefulness of my testing.  I've already tested both parents, my mom's 2 surviving siblings, 2 of my father's first cousins (he's an only child), and an assortment of both parents' 2nd-5th cousins.  I've decided to either test more of my parents' first or second cousins next, and am leaning to second cousins, but still on the fence somewhat, since testing first cousins could isolate a big chunk of their other, more distant matches.  I especially appreciate your instructions in your last email about GEDMATCH utilities for mapping once you have the parent-child trio. Barton On Sun, Oct 06, 2013 at 07:19 AM, Jim Bartlett wrote: > Barton > > Another revision in your particular case. With both your parents > tested, you can use the GEDmatch utility to phase your own results. > The gives you two new files: your atDNA from each parent. You can then > run a GEDmatch utility to assign all your GEDmatch matches to a parent > or IBS. Use these assigned matches in Triangulated Groups in your > spreadsheet, to also assign most of your matches who are not on > GEDmatch. > Then you're back to deciding whether you want to map grandparents to > your genome, or as distant an ancestor as you can. In either case, > mapping grandparents on your genome will be very revealing, and is > always a good step and review point. > Use Kitty's mapper with grandparents as the MRCA to track your > results, and do a quality check at this level. This is recommended for > everyone who is mapping chromosomes. > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > On Oct 5, 2013, at 11:41 PM, Barton Lewis wrote: > >> Pardon, list if this query has been posted many times before, but I >> have the >> opportunity to test a range of 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins of both my >> parents, >> and I would like guidance on how to get the most bang for my buck. I >> can >> see potential arguments for especially 1st v. 2nd cousins, where the >> relationship is still close enough to yield a significant number of >> matches. >> I guess the question comes down to the number of matches you get vs. >> the >> degree of isolation; does anyone have particular thoughts on this? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Barton >> > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUTOSOMAL-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >