I'm having trouble following the distinction between 5cM and 7cM. Don't all of our Family Finder matches include at least one 7cM segment? How is anyone sorting out 5cM matches and not trying to find a match for them? How do we separate out the matches that might be on a 5cM segment? On the presumption that all my FF matches have at least one 7cM segment, I email every one of them, and remain persistent until I come to a conclusion that our match must be a Common Ancestor that one of us (or both) hasn't documented yet. I must be missing something fundamental here - what is it? Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Nov 16, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Paul Wright <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't recommend spending much time on small matches either, but some > people do and some claim to have determined relationships. In any case, to > address the initial question about whether one can assume a non-match with > one parent means the relationship MUST be via the other parent, the answer > is NO and your response suggest an aire of absolutes (with states of > legitimacy and implied illigitimacy) rather than greater or lesser > likelihood. And we're not talking theoretical. I'm reasonably sure I've > seen examples of IBS over 7 cM, but will have to get back to you on > details. > > Meanwhile, I mispoke in the last sentence and should have left off the > "lack of match", primary point being that if parents are distant cousins of > each other, then determining whether how you are related becomes even more > difficult. > > Wasn't trying to piss you off. > > thks > > > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 3:02 PM, CeCe Moore <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> When I say "legitimately" match, I mean an IBD segment that would meet the >> company's matching threshold, not a segment made up of stretches of IBD and >> IBS pieced together. >> >> I'm not saying that it is impossible for a match over ~7 cMs to be IBS, >> but very unlikely. (I was going to write ~10 cMs in my response, but >> thought that might be a bit conservative.) I know that it is theoretically >> possible, but in my thousands of hours of atDNA research, I have yet to see >> proof of one. Can you please show me an example of an IBS match over 7 cMs? >> (I know that Ann Turner has seen lots of them between 5cMs-7cMs. We'll see >> if she responds with a larger one.) >> >> If enough of a portion of the segment is IBS that it doesn't show up in >> your parent (i.e.- make the company's threshold), then it will obviously >> reduce the authentic match to a point that is not worth pursuing. I have >> chased far too many matches under 7 cMs to recommend doing the same. >> >> How does one's parents being distantly related "make it more difficult to >> draw conclusions from lack of match"? Perhaps, if they are related, it >> might make it more difficult to draw conclusions from the PRESENCE of a >> match as to which side you inherited the DNA, but it doesn't matter for >> triangulation purposes with your match if the common ancestor appears in >> both sides of your family trees. >> >> I don't totally understand the point of your response. I am attempting to >> give simple advice that works in the vast majority of cases. There are >> always theoretical exceptions and if we went by those, we would never get >> anywhere with autosomal DNA matching for genealogy. >> >> Thanks, >> >> CeCe >> >> www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com >> www.studiointv.com >> >> >>> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:22:00 -0600 >>> From: [email protected] >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Fundamental autosomal DNA question >>> >>> Not entirely true. IBS can occur for segment over 7 cM, but are more >>> likely with the shorter segments. >>> >>> Meanwhile, even if IBS, the majority of the segment could be IBD and as a >>> result appear to "skip" generations appearing for both a grandparent and >>> grandchild, but not the parent/child in between them. And in some cases, >>> it may be an even larger segment share for the grandparent. >>> >>> Of course it also possible, and more common than many may think, that a >>> persons parents may be distantly related which may make it even more >>> difficult to draw conclusions from lack of a match. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:02 PM, CeCe Moore <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> You cannot legitimately match with someone who shares an ancestor with >>>> your mother's line without her showing the match as well. In most >> cases, if >>>> you have a match that your mother doesn't have, you can safely conclude >>>> that they are from your father's side. However, if the match is under >> ~7 >>>> cMs, it might be coincidental - identical by state - in other words a >> false >>>> positive, in which case it won't show up in either parent and is not >> worth >>>> pursuing. >>>> CeCe >>>> >>>> www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com >>>> www.studiointv.com >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:44:41 -0500 >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Fundamental autosomal DNA question >>>>> >>>>> I’m sure this fundamental question has been answered before, but I >> have >>>> missed it. >>>>> >>>>> If both my mother and myself have tested, can I match with someone >> from >>>> a known ancestral line of hers while she does NOT? OR, would the match >>>> mean that I MUST be related to this person through my paternal line? >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 23andMe, 5 cM matches are shown on Ancestry Finder and in Family Inheritance Advanced. So, even if someone doesn't appear on your Relative Finder list for which the threshold is 7 cM, if you "share genomes" with them, then the 5 cM and 6 cM matches show up in FIA and they then also appear in your RF as distant cousins. I have MANY of these. You're right that it isn't an issue at FTDNA and Family Finder. CeCe www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com www.studiointv.com > From: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:39:40 -0500 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Fundamental autosomal DNA question > > I'm having trouble following the distinction between 5cM and 7cM. Don't all of our Family Finder matches include at least one 7cM segment? How is anyone sorting out 5cM matches and not trying to find a match for them? How do we separate out the matches that might be on a 5cM segment? > > On the presumption that all my FF matches have at least one 7cM segment, I email every one of them, and remain persistent until I come to a conclusion that our match must be a Common Ancestor that one of us (or both) hasn't documented yet. > > I must be missing something fundamental here - what is it? > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! >