I'm guessing many of us have the same question! I've got several similar situations with no clue or breakthrough to date. On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Linda <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello List, > > What is the chosen method to search for the common ancestor on an "in > common with" match between 5 people about whom you know nothing to > connect them? > > Only one of the 4 gives GEDCOM and surnames and I cannot relate my McKee > husband to those surnames although several "could be related". (A 5th > name turned up on the in-common-with list but showed zero match on the > chromosome bar with anyone. I assume that is not meaningful ---?---) > > The match they all share is on the 9th chromosome as follows: > > McKee-Walters........2155758--8555148----13.9 cM--2795 snp > McKee-Dismukes.......1950788--9337789----16.38----3295 > McKee-Moore..........2155758--7810080----12.42----2395 > McKee-Uloth..........2155758--8387775----13.73----2695 > > Other small hits: > Moore, Dismukes, McKee on the 2nd chromosome > Moore, Uloth, McKee on the 3rd > Dismukes, Moore, McKee on the 5th > Dismukes, Moore, McKee on the 6th > Walters, Uloth, McKee on the 10th > Moore, Walters, McKee on the 16th > > Perhaps this could be my first Family Finder success story with the List > helping out..........Please. > > Any suggestions, comments appreciated. I have had very little luck in > attempting to communicate with matches to find the common grandparent as > it seems they all have less info than I do. > > Linda McKee > > > > > On 1/5/2012 2:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Back to 'Fundamental Autosomal DNA Question' (Amy Martin) > > 2. Re: Back to 'Fundamental Autosomal DNA Question' (Ann Turner) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 09:57:48 -0500 > > From: Amy Martin<[email protected]> > > Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Back to 'Fundamental Autosomal DNA Question' > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID:<[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > In posting my original question: "If both my mother and myself have > tested, can I match with someone from a known ancestral line of hers while > she does NOT? OR, would the match mean that I MUST be related to this > person through my paternal line?" I generated some disagreement from the > experts and much discussion. Unfortunately, I'm still confused. Recently, > I've gotten a 'strong' cousin match with a 'cousin' who does NOT match with > my mother. In this case, we have a cM chain of 23.88 and 4575 matching > SNP, for an estimated 3rd cousin match. When examining his family tree, > everything overwhelmingly points to a MATERNAL connection so far (but no > real smoking gun, so to speak). It IS possible I'm missing a paternal > surname, however. I'm having this situation turn up occasionally with > other cousins as well. Does this mean that Mom and Dad have cousins in > common? OR, am I to understand, as you all have tried to explain, that it > is NOT possible that genes 'skip' a gene! > ra! > > tion, so I must be missing the paternal connection? Since we are a > strong match, the whole IBS issue is moot, right? > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 07:39:15 -0800 > > From: Ann Turner<[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Back to 'Fundamental Autosomal DNA > > Question' > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: > > < > [email protected]om> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > That is a very robust segment, and I would infer that the connection is > > through the paternal side. > > > > Ann > > > > On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Amy Martin<[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> In posting my original question: "If both my mother and myself have > >> tested, can I match with someone from a known ancestral line of hers > while > >> she does NOT? OR, would the match mean that I MUST be related to this > >> person through my paternal line?" I generated some disagreement from > the > >> experts and much discussion. Unfortunately, I'm still confused. > Recently, > >> I've gotten a 'strong' cousin match with a 'cousin' who does NOT match > with > >> my mother. In this case, we have a cM chain of 23.88 and 4575 matching > >> SNP, for an estimated 3rd cousin match. When examining his family tree, > >> everything overwhelmingly points to a MATERNAL connection so far (but no > >> real smoking gun, so to speak). It IS possible I'm missing a paternal > >> surname, however. I'm having this situation turn up occasionally with > >> other cousins as well. Does this mean that Mom and Dad have cousins in > >> common? OR, am I to understand, as you all have tried to explain, that > it > >> is NOT possible that genes 'skip' a genera! > >> tion, so I must be missing the paternal connection? Since we are a > >> strong match, the whole IBS issue is moot, right? > >> > >> > >> ______________________________ > >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > >> http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > End of AUTOSOMAL-DNA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1 > > ******************************************* > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Larry hit the nail smack dab on the head. One thing to remember is that we are dealing with unphased data. From observing RAW DATA in my FF project, this is a big issue. It is also important to note that there can be thousands, I counted over 5,000 in my FTDNA v2 RAW DATA, nulls in the atDNA results. Note, these seem to be mostly false nulls. I have compared my atDNA results from 23andMe, FTDNA v1 and FTDNA v2 and at least 90% of my nulls show up on only one test. Nulls are typically ignored. Getting actual values for Nulls could impact these "matches" as well. I expect to have some Excel 2007 and higher functions and macros written in order to deal with some of these issues. I've been trying to write them but my dimly remembered 10+ year old Lotus 123 for DOS and dDase IV for DOS don't seem up to the job. Sam --------------------------------------- From: Larry Vick <[email protected]> Linda, Have you asked the others if in fact they do match each other? ?Are each of you on the others' match lists in those approximate positions on Family Finder? Regards, Larry

Hello List, What is the chosen method to search for the common ancestor on an "in common with" match between 5 people about whom you know nothing to connect them? Only one of the 4 gives GEDCOM and surnames and I cannot relate my McKee husband to those surnames although several "could be related". (A 5th name turned up on the in-common-with list but showed zero match on the chromosome bar with anyone. I assume that is not meaningful ---?---) The match they all share is on the 9th chromosome as follows: McKee-Walters........2155758--8555148----13.9 cM--2795 snp McKee-Dismukes.......1950788--9337789----16.38----3295 McKee-Moore..........2155758--7810080----12.42----2395 McKee-Uloth..........2155758--8387775----13.73----2695 Other small hits: Moore, Dismukes, McKee on the 2nd chromosome Moore, Uloth, McKee on the 3rd Dismukes, Moore, McKee on the 5th Dismukes, Moore, McKee on the 6th Walters, Uloth, McKee on the 10th Moore, Walters, McKee on the 16th Perhaps this could be my first Family Finder success story with the List helping out..........Please. Any suggestions, comments appreciated. I have had very little luck in attempting to communicate with matches to find the common grandparent as it seems they all have less info than I do. Linda McKee On 1/5/2012 2:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Back to 'Fundamental Autosomal DNA Question' (Amy Martin) > 2. Re: Back to 'Fundamental Autosomal DNA Question' (Ann Turner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 09:57:48 -0500 > From: Amy Martin<[email protected]> > Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Back to 'Fundamental Autosomal DNA Question' > To: [email protected] > Message-ID:<[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > In posting my original question: "If both my mother and myself have tested, can I match with someone from a known ancestral line of hers while she does NOT? OR, would the match mean that I MUST be related to this person through my paternal line?" I generated some disagreement from the experts and much discussion. Unfortunately, I'm still confused. Recently, I've gotten a 'strong' cousin match with a 'cousin' who does NOT match with my mother. In this case, we have a cM chain of 23.88 and 4575 matching SNP, for an estimated 3rd cousin match. When examining his family tree, everything overwhelmingly points to a MATERNAL connection so far (but no real smoking gun, so to speak). It IS possible I'm missing a paternal surname, however. I'm having this situation turn up occasionally with other cousins as well. Does this mean that Mom and Dad have cousins in common? OR, am I to understand, as you all have tried to explain, that it is NOT possible that genes 'skip' a genera! > tion, so I must be missing the paternal connection? Since we are a strong match, the whole IBS issue is moot, right? > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 07:39:15 -0800 > From: Ann Turner<[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Back to 'Fundamental Autosomal DNA > Question' > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[email protected]om> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > That is a very robust segment, and I would infer that the connection is > through the paternal side. > > Ann > > On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Amy Martin<[email protected]> wrote: > >> In posting my original question: "If both my mother and myself have >> tested, can I match with someone from a known ancestral line of hers while >> she does NOT? OR, would the match mean that I MUST be related to this >> person through my paternal line?" I generated some disagreement from the >> experts and much discussion. Unfortunately, I'm still confused. Recently, >> I've gotten a 'strong' cousin match with a 'cousin' who does NOT match with >> my mother. In this case, we have a cM chain of 23.88 and 4575 matching >> SNP, for an estimated 3rd cousin match. When examining his family tree, >> everything overwhelmingly points to a MATERNAL connection so far (but no >> real smoking gun, so to speak). It IS possible I'm missing a paternal >> surname, however. I'm having this situation turn up occasionally with >> other cousins as well. Does this mean that Mom and Dad have cousins in >> common? OR, am I to understand, as you all have tried to explain, that it >> is NOT possible that genes 'skip' a genera! >> tion, so I must be missing the paternal connection? Since we are a >> strong match, the whole IBS issue is moot, right? >> >> >> ______________________________ >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: >> http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of AUTOSOMAL-DNA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1 > *******************************************

Early on, I had a set of similar matches. I wrote to the members of the match group. In most cases none of them matched one another. I later tested my half brother, we share the same father. It turned out that some of the people in my match group are common with my brother and some are not, so in spite of what looked looked like common ancestry, some of the matches were paternal, and some maternal. In many cases, I can now determine which side of my ancestry the match is on, because they also match my half-brother. I still have not been able to identify a common ancestor with these people. The fault does not seem to be what I know about my ancestors, as I have a very mature pedigree. The fault seems to be that my matches know very little about their ancestors. In the last two and one-half years, one common ancestor was identified, out of over one thousand matches. In that case, using my surname list, my match did further research, and found an ancestress whose surname she had not identified who also descends from my fourth great-grandfather. So, there is hope. I think I have close to one hundred surnames on my list. These are my direct ancestors, not married out surnames. Marleen Van Horne

Linda, Have you asked the others if in fact they do match each other?  Are each of you on the others' match lists in those approximate positions on Family Finder? Regards, Larry ________________________________ From: Linda <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 9:55 AM Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with few clues ? Hello List, What is the chosen method to search for the common ancestor on an "in common with" match between 5 people about whom you know nothing to connect them? Only one of the 4 gives GEDCOM and surnames and I cannot relate my McKee husband to those surnames although several "could be related".  (A 5th name turned up on the in-common-with list but showed zero match on the chromosome bar with anyone.  I assume that is not meaningful ---?---) The match they all share is on the 9th chromosome as follows: McKee-Walters........2155758--8555148----13.9 cM--2795 snp McKee-Dismukes.......1950788--9337789----16.38----3295 McKee-Moore..........2155758--7810080----12.42----2395 McKee-Uloth..........2155758--8387775----13.73----2695 Other small hits: Moore, Dismukes, McKee on the 2nd chromosome Moore, Uloth, McKee on the 3rd Dismukes, Moore, McKee on the 5th Dismukes, Moore, McKee on the 6th Walters, Uloth, McKee on the 10th Moore, Walters, McKee on the 16th Perhaps this could be my first Family Finder success story with the List helping out..........Please. Any suggestions, comments appreciated.  I have had very little luck in attempting to communicate with matches to find the common grandparent as it seems they all have less info than I do. Linda McKee

In posting my original question: "If both my mother and myself have tested, can I match with someone from a known ancestral line of hers while she does NOT? OR, would the match mean that I MUST be related to this person through my paternal line?" I generated some disagreement from the experts and much discussion. Unfortunately, I'm still confused. Recently, I've gotten a 'strong' cousin match with a 'cousin' who does NOT match with my mother. In this case, we have a cM chain of 23.88 and 4575 matching SNP, for an estimated 3rd cousin match. When examining his family tree, everything overwhelmingly points to a MATERNAL connection so far (but no real smoking gun, so to speak). It IS possible I'm missing a paternal surname, however. I'm having this situation turn up occasionally with other cousins as well. Does this mean that Mom and Dad have cousins in common? OR, am I to understand, as you all have tried to explain, that it is NOT possible that genes 'skip' a generation, so I must be missing the paternal connection? Since we are a strong match, the whole IBS issue is moot, right?

That is a very robust segment, and I would infer that the connection is through the paternal side. Ann On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Amy Martin <[email protected]> wrote: > In posting my original question: "If both my mother and myself have > tested, can I match with someone from a known ancestral line of hers while > she does NOT? OR, would the match mean that I MUST be related to this > person through my paternal line?" I generated some disagreement from the > experts and much discussion. Unfortunately, I'm still confused. Recently, > I've gotten a 'strong' cousin match with a 'cousin' who does NOT match with > my mother. In this case, we have a cM chain of 23.88 and 4575 matching > SNP, for an estimated 3rd cousin match. When examining his family tree, > everything overwhelmingly points to a MATERNAL connection so far (but no > real smoking gun, so to speak). It IS possible I'm missing a paternal > surname, however. I'm having this situation turn up occasionally with > other cousins as well. Does this mean that Mom and Dad have cousins in > common? OR, am I to understand, as you all have tried to explain, that it > is NOT possible that genes 'skip' a genera! > tion, so I must be missing the paternal connection? Since we are a > strong match, the whole IBS issue is moot, right? > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

>From: Dwight Holmes <[email protected]> > >FTDNA has said it will happen with no specifics as to when. They're >implementing major changes to their website - perhaps when that comes out >of beta? Thank you. When FTDNA makes an announcement maybe someone will post to this list. >It should be noted, though, that the transfer will only be available to >people who've done the V3 test. Those with V2 results will instead be >offered a discounted price on Family Finder. Aha. When I look at some updates on the 23andMe site it says "Not genotyped. The markers associated with this trait or condition are not included on the chip that was used to analyze your DNA. Please upgrade profiles in your account to our latest chip." Apparently my results are from the older chip.

Tim, Thanks so much for this helpful response. It was not hard to add the 4cm to 7.6 cm matches to my big chart for the last 40 people. I appreciated the example about your father's match and the benefit in seeing general background. Also I will keep that in mind about encouraging all of the 2nd and 3rd cousin matches with me to test. brand new computer and this is first use.' g=Mary Lou

There is a thread on the FTDNA forum on the topic of 23andMe==>Family Finder transfers here: http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=29972 On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Dwight Holmes <[email protected]> wrote: > It should be noted, though, that the transfer will only be available to > people who've done the V3 test. Those with V2 results will instead be > offered a discounted price on Family Finder. > > Sent from my 'Droid phone via CREDO Mobile - please forgive typos! > > On Dec 16, 2011 9:00 PM, "Dwight Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> FTDNA has said it will happen with no specifics as to when. They're >> implementing major changes to their website - perhaps when that comes out of >> beta? >> >> Sent from my 'Droid phone via CREDO Mobile - please forgive typos! >> >> On Dec 16, 2011 8:30 PM, "Carol Botteron" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> A while back someone mentioned a deal by which people who have >>> tested at 23andMe would be able to transfer their results to >>> FTDNA Family Finder in order to compare with more genealogists. >>> IIRC the cost was to be $50. >>> >>> Is this still supposed to happen?  Does anyone have an update? >>> adTHANKSvance! >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ >>> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please >>> see: >>> http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It should be noted, though, that the transfer will only be available to people who've done the V3 test. Those with V2 results will instead be offered a discounted price on Family Finder. Sent from my 'Droid phone via CREDO Mobile - please forgive typos! On Dec 16, 2011 9:00 PM, "Dwight Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote: > FTDNA has said it will happen with no specifics as to when. They're > implementing major changes to their website - perhaps when that comes out > of beta? > > Sent from my 'Droid phone via CREDO Mobile - please forgive typos! > On Dec 16, 2011 8:30 PM, "Carol Botteron" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> A while back someone mentioned a deal by which people who have >> tested at 23andMe would be able to transfer their results to >> FTDNA Family Finder in order to compare with more genealogists. >> IIRC the cost was to be $50. >> >> Is this still supposed to happen? Does anyone have an update? >> adTHANKSvance! >> >> >> ______________________________ >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: >> http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

FTDNA has said it will happen with no specifics as to when. They're implementing major changes to their website - perhaps when that comes out of beta? Sent from my 'Droid phone via CREDO Mobile - please forgive typos! On Dec 16, 2011 8:30 PM, "Carol Botteron" <[email protected]> wrote: > A while back someone mentioned a deal by which people who have > tested at 23andMe would be able to transfer their results to > FTDNA Family Finder in order to compare with more genealogists. > IIRC the cost was to be $50. > > Is this still supposed to happen? Does anyone have an update? > adTHANKSvance! > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

A while back someone mentioned a deal by which people who have tested at 23andMe would be able to transfer their results to FTDNA Family Finder in order to compare with more genealogists. IIRC the cost was to be $50. Is this still supposed to happen? Does anyone have an update? adTHANKSvance!

Carol, this comparison free if you put your 23Me raw data into GedMatch - that is, will compare with FTDNA Family Finder members who have also put their data there. I have not heard of transferring 23Me data to Family Finder.. Mary Alice ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

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Dear Mary Lou and Jim, I agree that it makes the most sense to focus on large segments. However, I don't think that people necessarily need to ignore matching smaller segments (those between say 4 and 8 cMs in length). Some of those smaller matching segments will be helpful if they are properly cataloged. In some cases the matching segment can be tied to a specific country or region even if the ancestor can't be identified. For instance, my dad recently had a match at 23andMe who is Afrikaans and whose ancestry is primarily Dutch. This would suggest that this particular segment came from one of my dad's Mennonite ancestors who had Dutch ancestry. A certain percentage of those with matching smaller segments (those between say 4 and 8 cMs in length) will be able to be connected to you genealogically. I thus pursue all of the matches I get at 23andMe in the chance that I will be able to find a genealogical connection, but I agree with Jim that the chances of finding a genealogical connection with someone who has a 20-30 cM matching segment are much higher than the chances of finding a genealogical connection with someone who has a 4-8 cM matching segment. Another point I would like to mention is that the more first, second, and third cousins you test the better your odds will be of properly determining how a particular DNA segment was passed down to you. You can use matching segments with these cousins to determine if a DNA segment that you share with a match at 23andMe or Family Finder actually comes down through an ancestor you find in common or whether it comes down through an unknown ancestor on another line (or is possibly is identical by state). Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mary Lou Ramsey Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] AUTOSOMAL-DNA Digest, Vol 1, Issue 103 Jim, Thanks so much for your reply. I am confident you are right, and am reassured especially because you tried comparing the small matches too. I plan to work to get a better list of my 7th generation ancestors with places and share with my matches as you suggested. I really appreciate your explanations and will review as I grasp more. Mary Lou

Jim, Thanks so much for your reply. I am confident you are right, and am reassured especially because you tried comparing the small matches too. I plan to work to get a better list of my 7th generation ancestors with places and share with my matches as you suggested. I really appreciate your explanations and will review as I grasp more. Mary Lou > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 21:34:28 -0500 > From: Jim Bartlett <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] my Family Finder matches and where to > focus > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Mary Lou > > I, too, originally looked at all of the smaller segments. Then, as I began > to confirm Common Ancestors with my atDNA matches, I soon found that the > same small segments were in different lines. In other words they could not > have come from a Common Ancestor. And do I realized the small segments > could not help me with genealogy. I now only focus on the large (over > 7.7cM) segments. Every one of your FF matches has at least one of these. > > I've had the best results (confirming paper trails to Common Ancestors > with over 30 FF matches) by developing an exhaustive, alphabetical list of > my ancestral surnames, and then adding the Patriarch's given name and some > dates and places (use the Matriarch's info if necessary). Each of your FF > matches will have only one of your ancestors in common (the one who gave > both of you the large atDNA segment) The list is designed to let your atDNA > match easily pick out his/her ancestor (usually a husband/wife couple) - so > email this list to each and every match. And encourage them to do the same. > If neither of you spots a Common Ancestor, then look through the other's > list for matching place/times - you may well have an > other-side-of-the-brick-wall ancestor there/then. > > Your Common Ancestor could be back 7-10 or more generations. Your Y-DNA > and mtDNA lines are less than one percent of your ancestry, so don't focus > on them. Be prepared to match on any ancestor. > > My 2 cents... > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > On Dec 8, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Mary Lou Ramsey <[email protected]> > wrote: >

Mary Lou I, too, originally looked at all of the smaller segments. Then, as I began to confirm Common Ancestors with my atDNA matches, I soon found that the same small segments were in different lines. In other words they could not have come from a Common Ancestor. And do I realized the small segments could not help me with genealogy. I now only focus on the large (over 7.7cM) segments. Every one of your FF matches has at least one of these. I've had the best results (confirming paper trails to Common Ancestors with over 30 FF matches) by developing an exhaustive, alphabetical list of my ancestral surnames, and then adding the Patriarch's given name and some dates and places (use the Matriarch's info if necessary). Each of your FF matches will have only one of your ancestors in common (the one who gave both of you the large atDNA segment) The list is designed to let your atDNA match easily pick out his/her ancestor (usually a husband/wife couple) - so email this list to each and every match. And encourage them to do the same. If neither of you spots a Common Ancestor, then look through the other's list for matching place/times - you may well have an other-side-of-the-brick-wall ancestor there/then. Your Common Ancestor could be back 7-10 or more generations. Your Y-DNA and mtDNA lines are less than one percent of your ancestry, so don't focus on them. Be prepared to match on any ancestor. My 2 cents... Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Dec 8, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Mary Lou Ramsey <[email protected]> wrote: > I received my FF matches in April 2011 and now have 169 matches but only 6 > or so who are even possibly 2nd cousins, with perhaps 35 who are suggested > 3rd-4th cousins. At the outset I read several books, and look forward to > reading more about autosomal as more material is available. > > I decided to spend a great amount of time charting every match, even small > ones, on large accounting pages, and did this for the first 140 people. I > believe this shows that many small matches tend to be with the same > individuals as where these people match me in larger matches, and seem to > give insights as to what ancestral surname we have in common. > > I would not have spent this much time charting the thousands of small bits > of matches, but was very impatient to learn more about autosomal genetic > cousin matching and could think of no other way. About 1/3 of the matches > don't give a list of surnames being searched, or a gedcom. I do have > about 2 Known Relative matches, and a couple more where I am confident > there is a match about 5 generations back. > > I spent years researching and making gedcom of my paternal McHaffie family > (formerly Mckilhaffie/Mackilhaffy etc), one name study, and some 18th > century Pennsylvania McHaffie male descendants have tested and are > Haplogroup I2a. Research has led to 14th, 15th, etc., century individuals > with variant spellings, all in southwestern Scotland, mostly in > Wigtownshire area records, and my research seems to point to possible roots > being pre-Celtic Britons. Certain other families I believe McHaffies > related to in 14th c. do have descendants in I2a also. Most men with > similar sounding names are in the R1 haplogroups. > > I have one full first cousin, male, and another who is a half first cousin > and they don't plan to have ydna testing done at present. All of us are > in old age. > > My mtDNA proved to be unique, haplogroup V with a mutation at 551 that > matches no one so far, and I don't plan further testing there. I'm > certain that there are hundreds of descendants of my earliest maternal > ancestress, Elizabeth Stevens, born 1793 NC d 1855. > > There have been no y-dna matches at all for my husband's 12 markers since > 2005, so further testing on that doesn't seem promising at present. Our > sons will be tested for Family Finder soon. > > I have at least a surname for all but 5 of my 32 great-great-great > grandparents who were born around the time of the Revolution. > > I am wondering if I should continue with posting the hundreds of small > matches, creating a hand marked chromosome sheet for each new matching > person, printing their data, comparing and doing studies of where matches > tend to cluster and what ancestral surname is likely, or if I should just > post the large matches on the accounting sheets for about 10cM and above > and try to be patient. > Mary Lou

I received my FF matches in April 2011 and now have 169 matches but only 6 or so who are even possibly 2nd cousins, with perhaps 35 who are suggested 3rd-4th cousins. At the outset I read several books, and look forward to reading more about autosomal as more material is available. I decided to spend a great amount of time charting every match, even small ones, on large accounting pages, and did this for the first 140 people. I believe this shows that many small matches tend to be with the same individuals as where these people match me in larger matches, and seem to give insights as to what ancestral surname we have in common. I would not have spent this much time charting the thousands of small bits of matches, but was very impatient to learn more about autosomal genetic cousin matching and could think of no other way. About 1/3 of the matches don't give a list of surnames being searched, or a gedcom. I do have about 2 Known Relative matches, and a couple more where I am confident there is a match about 5 generations back. I spent years researching and making gedcom of my paternal McHaffie family (formerly Mckilhaffie/Mackilhaffy etc), one name study, and some 18th century Pennsylvania McHaffie male descendants have tested and are Haplogroup I2a. Research has led to 14th, 15th, etc., century individuals with variant spellings, all in southwestern Scotland, mostly in Wigtownshire area records, and my research seems to point to possible roots being pre-Celtic Britons. Certain other families I believe McHaffies related to in 14th c. do have descendants in I2a also. Most men with similar sounding names are in the R1 haplogroups. I have one full first cousin, male, and another who is a half first cousin and they don't plan to have ydna testing done at present. All of us are in old age. My mtDNA proved to be unique, haplogroup V with a mutation at 551 that matches no one so far, and I don't plan further testing there. I'm certain that there are hundreds of descendants of my earliest maternal ancestress, Elizabeth Stevens, born 1793 NC d 1855. There have been no y-dna matches at all for my husband's 12 markers since 2005, so further testing on that doesn't seem promising at present. Our sons will be tested for Family Finder soon. I have at least a surname for all but 5 of my 32 great-great-great grandparents who were born around the time of the Revolution. I am wondering if I should continue with posting the hundreds of small matches, creating a hand marked chromosome sheet for each new matching person, printing their data, comparing and doing studies of where matches tend to cluster and what ancestral surname is likely, or if I should just post the large matches on the accounting sheets for about 10cM and above and try to be patient. Mary Lou

This is a cross-posting from a thread on 23andMe about looking at small segments. ==== OK, here's a case study about a small segment. I was recently contacted by a Family Finder match (LM). She and her half-first cousin once removed believe they descend from an undocumented WRIGHT ancestor. Both shared a segment with my sister (ME) and noticed that we also have a WRIGHT ancestor. Furthermore, LM matched my second cousin once removed (JJ), with the longest segment on a different chromosome. The common ancestor for JJ and ME is a WRIGHT. That looks promising. I looked at the smaller segments, and lo and behold, there's one short segment on chromosome 2 that is found in all three pairwise comparisons. The numbers are chromosome, start position, stop position, cM, and number of SNPs. ME & JJ 2 135,763,071 138,614,305 2.36 700 ME & LM 2 135,135,633 138,614,305 2.44 800 JJ & LM 2 135,763,071 138,614,305 2.36 700 The apparent exactness of the boundaries is an artifact of the way FTDNA analyzes data in blocks of 100 SNPs. LM sent me her raw data, so I could use David Pike's utility to get closer to the actual boundaries. There is still some fuzziness, but you can see that the actual segment is somewhat longer than reported by FTDNA. ME & LM 134,827,563 138,652,870 897 [Rutger's map interpolator gives this distance as 2.83 cM] When I compare LM with 23andMe v2 data for ME, the SNP count drops since there is not complete overlap in SNPs tested, but the boundaries are similar. ME & LM 134,827,909 138,625,822 384 I also have other WRIGHT connections at 23andMe: myself (AT), my son (JT), and my uncle (JW). LM & JT 135,259,837 138,401,572 702 [v3] LM & AT 135,153,875 138,459,636 320 [v2, so fewer SNPs, but boundaries are similar to son JT] LM & JW 134,827,909 138,576,971 376 [v2] That segment seemed to be holding up well with all those pair-wise matches. It's encouraging that the match in my son appears to be inherited from me. BUT -- JT and I do not match my sister (or JW or JJ) in that region! The fact that the same segment showed up in child JT and parent AT was not a sufficient filter to rule out a false positive (what I call a pseudo-segment). The reason for the false positive is clear when we can use phased data. I have father/mother/child data for JT, so I can phase his genotype and use the alleles he inherited from me to compare with LM. What appears to be one long continuous run of half-identical SNPs was actually ten shorter runs stitched together with some alleles from his father, which made it appear the run was continuing. It takes many pairwise matches and/or phased data to be confident that everyone shares the same segment IBD when you're looking at short segments. SageGrouse is looking at 10 cM matches, and I agree that those are long enough to rule out pseudo-segments, provided you have some minimum number of cousins to compare. I looked at some data I have for my family study of an inherited hearing impairment. There is a segment which must be IBD because we share the phenotype. In that case, four cousins performed as well as a father/mother/child trio.