Good to hear, Wayne. You seem to be in the minority. Can you please share with us what browser you used? I tired IE and Firefox so far. Thanks, CeCe   www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com www.studiointv.com > > Worked for me. -Wayne

I just tried uploading my sons 23andMe v3 data, and get an error message: "The results file you uploaded appears to contain inadequate data. Please re-download your file and try again." I tried numerous times, with different downloads, and always the same error message. Anyone else getting this? Karen On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 5:12 PM, CeCe Moore <[email protected]> wrote: > > Great news! > Details on my blog: > > http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/family-tree-dna-now-accepting-23andme.html > CeCe > > > www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com > www.studiointv.com > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Are you guys unzipping and uploading as .txt? That is what the instructions say. CeCe www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com www.studiointv.com > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:14:41 +1300 > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] FTDNA accepting uploads from 23andMe! > > Same thing for me too. > > Dave(NZ) > > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen Zander [[email protected]] > Sent: 01 February 2012 13:50 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] FTDNA accepting uploads from 23andMe! > > I just tried uploading my sons 23andMe v3 data, and get an error message: > "The results file you uploaded appears to contain inadequate data. Please > re-download your file and try again." > > I tried numerous times, with different downloads, and always the same error > message. Anyone else getting this? > Karen > ##################################################################################### > Scanned by MailMarshal - M86 Security's comprehensive email content security solution. > Download a free evaluation of MailMarshal at www.m86security.com > ##################################################################################### > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Great news! Details on my blog: http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/family-tree-dna-now-accepting-23andme.html CeCe   www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com www.studiointv.com

I sent this report out today with an attached spreadsheet. The Patriarch is my g-g-g grandfather. The atDNA results discussed are for four known descendants and all matches are against, one person, the latest descendent to get results. Default settings were used for Dr Pike's tool and FF Chromosome Browser was run from the user's page. I doubt that the specific values on the spreadsheet will be of any value to the group at large. I will send copies of the spreadsheet to any that are interested. Still, I do find the results interesting in regard to small matching segments. Sam ---------------------------------------------- Note, the spreadsheet is essentially the report. The rest is explanation and comment. I find the FYDNA user tools quite useful, though not as powerful as the tools at www.GEDmatch.com. The issue with the GEDmatch tools is that the GEDmatch tools require surrendering much more privacy than many people are comfortable with. Dr Pike also has some very good tools on his site including the tool that I used, http://www.math.mun.ca/~dapike/FF23utils/pair-comp.php Dr Pike's tools require "Raw Data" to use and with out users granting the administrator use of their passwords are impossible for an FTDNA FF administrator to use. As this project was basically started with 23andMe data and was in existence before it joined FTDNA, I had already been in trusted with the necessary passwords. Now, most genetic genealogists find atDNA matches of less than 10.0 cMs and 700 SNPs very difficult to work with as there are many false positives and even where the match is in fact Identical by Birth, finding the correct match at a genetic distance of 4-10 or more generations and the thousands to millions of possible matches is not really a researchable undertaking. Our project is totally different. Our paper trail is about as good as it is possible to get. We are also rock solid on yDNA matches. So, the FTDNA tools showed 16 out of 127 of MLP's matches with the other three descendants of our patriarch that Dr Pike's utility found. Please remember that only one of the 127 matches would have shown up at 23andMe, and in fact, only that one of these matches is actually useful for most genetic genealogy research. Also remember that it is possible that many of the matches shown by Dr Pike's tool may be false positives. I think that it would be very useful if FTDNA was able to come up with an administrator's tool kit much like Dr Pike's. I am stumbling along and trying to also create a few tools that I think might be useful as well. Sam Eaton

Thanks Paul I didn't know that. Karen On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Paul Wright <[email protected]>wrote: > The longest segment between a parent and child is typically the longest > chromosome (chr 1) unless there is a mirodeletion which cuts it into more > than one segment. There is no association between this and surname. > > > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Sam Eaton <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Karen, > > > > I would need testing of both of your father's parents descendants before > I > > would even begin to guess on this one. In other words the answer is > > unlikely. > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > Hi Ann > > > > Thank you for the image. > > > > Dad and I have tested and the longest segment we have in common is 267.21 > > cMs with almost 60,000 SNP's, so would it be wrong to guess that the > > longest segment is his surname ? The next longest is 206.75 cM's most > > likely a grandparent line? All other segments are under 200cMs., with > less > > than 50,000SNP's > > > > > > ______________________________ > > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Tim Thanks for sharing your findings on your own family's SNPs. Karen > > # of SNPs %IBD %IBS > >2000 95 (78/82) 5 > 1000-2000 76 (62/82) 24 > 500-1000 25 (4/16) 75 > > > >

Hi Ann Thanks I get what you are saying. Karen On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Ann Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > The different images you see represent the chromosomes, numbered 1 to 22 > (the autosomes, or non-sex chromosomes). The chromosomes come in different > sizes and are numbered (roughly) in descending order by size. The > Chromosome Browser is showing that you match your father across the entire > length of chromosome 1, the entire length of chromosome 2, etc. This > animation from Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation might help you > picture the process of recombination across the generations: > > http://www.smgf.org/education/animations/autosomal.jspx > > Ann Turner > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Karen Hodges <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hi Ann > > > > Thank you for the image. > > > > Dad and I have tested and the longest segment we have in common is 267.21 > > cMs with almost 60,000 SNP's, so would it be wrong to guess that the > > longest segment is his surname ? The next longest is 206.75 cM's most > > likely a grandparent line? All other segments are under 200cMs., with > less > > than 50,000SNP's > > > > There has been a lot of talk about IBD and IBS, with over 10 cMs being > IBD. > > Is there a similiar finding with the number of SNP's where over a certain > > amount you would be related to the match for sure? > > > > Karen > > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Ann Thank you for the image. Dad and I have tested and the longest segment we have in common is 267.21 cMs with almost 60,000 SNP's, so would it be wrong to guess that the longest segment is his surname ? The next longest is 206.75 cM's most likely a grandparent line? All other segments are under 200cMs., with less than 50,000SNP's There has been a lot of talk about IBD and IBS, with over 10 cMs being IBD. Is there a similiar finding with the number of SNP's where over a certain amount you would be related to the match for sure? Karen

Yes, I think it would be interesting to compare the phased data of the child with the genotypes of CH and MN. It could be a case of "fuzzy boundaries" (the segment is actually present in the parent, but just misses the threshold by a few SNPs), or it could be composed of a few or many smaller segments. I'd guess the first possibility is unlikely, since your stats are based on Ancestry Finder showing segments down to 5 cM in size. I know you've developed some spreadsheet tools -- would this be a tedious task? I work with David Pike's utilities (which can handle files where the SNP list is not identical), and I can do the analysis. It's not automated for me, either -- it's a combination of manipulating Pike's output with a little BASIC program plus some spreadsheet formula. Ann Turner On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Tim Janzen <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Ann, > I reviewed the list of people in 23andMe whose segments over 7 cMs > in length are IBS and I have the raw data files for several of these > people: > CH and MN, whose IBS segments are exactly 7 cMs. Both are of Low German > Mennonite ancestry. I am not in contact with any of the other people whose > segments are IBS. Are you interested in doing additional review this > situation in some way? >

The thread is getting pretty long, and I'm not sure your question was answered. A 10 cM segment should be pretty robust, but it wouldn't hurt to verify that all of the pairwise comparisons hold up. IF it should happen to be a false positive, you and your half-brother would be saying the same thing twice, which doesn't make it any truer. Ann Turner On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Marleen Van Horne <[email protected]> wrote: > If any of the following represents a misunderstanding on my part, please > correct me, gently. > > I had my half-brother FF tested. We share the same father. Any matches > we have over 10 cM should be consider IBD. > > Of the 7500 total cM of atDNA, approximateley 3750 cM can come from one > parent. I realize this division can be flexible. Of that approximately > 3750 cM, my brother and I actually share 1607.60 cM of atDNA. The > largest segment is 196.19 cM, on chr 4. > > My half-brother has 83 FF matches without me. I made a list of all his > > 10 cM matches and compared the names to my list of matches. He has > 41 matches > 10 cM, of those sixteen names are on my list of matches. > > I then downloaded the list of matching locations for these 16 people for > both my half-brother and me to a Excel spreadsheet and sorted the > information by chromosome and starting location for the matching segments. > > Most of the > 10 cM matches are on chr 4. My expectation would be that > our matches on chr 4 should also match one another to some degree, as > many of their location overlap with one another. > > First, is the above correct? > > Second, what is the best way to proceed? >

No, it's proprietary information. However, I was given permission to provide yes/no answers about whether a particular segment required more than the typical number of SNPs. If you'll write to me off-list, I can look up the segments in question. Several of them are near centromeres or telomeres. Ann Turner On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Tim Janzen <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Ann, > Is this list of one dozen regions publicly available? If so, can > you share with us a list of these regions? > Sincerely, > Tim Janzen > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ann Turner > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 11:59 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with > few clues > > The exception for long runs of SNPs is the HLA region on chromosome 6, > which has a lot of know variants, but the recombination rate is low, so the > runs tend to be in the vicinity of 1-3 cM. 23andMe has a list of about a > dozen regions where they require more SNPs (up to 1200). > > Ann >

Dear Duncan, I think that it would be particularly interesting to review the raw data files for those people who have matching segments that contain over 2000 SNPs that appear to IBS. I suspect that reason #1 below is rarely the cause for this, except possibly in highly endogamous populations. Reason #2 could be a possible cause for some of these situations. I think that a significant percentage of these situations could be caused by errors in the raw data files that happen to disrupt the run of matching SNPs in the parent but not in the child for the segment in question. You are correct that if we could easily identity IBS segments that meet 23andMe's and Family Finder's match criteria then we could save ourselves the time and effort in trying to identify common ancestors. I have encouraged both 23andMe and FTDNA to phase the data that they can easily phase (using two parent/one child trios). If they did this then matches that are simply IBS could simply be dropped from the match list. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of r0berts0n Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 3:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF matchwith few clues Thanks Tim I'm trying to think of reasons for such long IBS segments and here are my thoughts: 1. There is a very low allele variability in the population in those regions. However if that were so, then lots of people would be seeing those particular segments matching others and I don't think that is so? 2. The segments aren't really that long and Family Finder is tolerating too many mismatches. If that were so the the IBD segments would also be too long and I haven't heard anyone say that is so. I think it is important to understand why this is happening because if we could easily identify IBS segments then we could ignore them and save time and effort in trying to identify matches. Do you have any other ideas for the existence of long IBS segments? Duncan

Dear Ann, Is this list of one dozen regions publicly available? If so, can you share with us a list of these regions? Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ann Turner Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 11:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with few clues The exception for long runs of SNPs is the HLA region on chromosome 6, which has a lot of know variants, but the recombination rate is low, so the runs tend to be in the vicinity of 1-3 cM. 23andMe has a list of about a dozen regions where they require more SNPs (up to 1200). Ann

Dear Ann, I reviewed the list of people in 23andMe whose segments over 7 cMs in length are IBS and I have the raw data files for several of these people: CH and MN, whose IBS segments are exactly 7 cMs. Both are of Low German Mennonite ancestry. I am not in contact with any of the other people whose segments are IBS. Are you interested in doing additional review this situation in some way? Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ann Turner Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with few clues ? I wonder if your percentages run higher than mine because of compound segments: short segments that butt up against each other to make it look like one continuous segment. This is FTDNA's explanation for this phenomenon, but I haven't yet encountered a real-life case. I can see it would be more likely in an endogamous population like your Mennonite ancestry. Do you have contact information for some of the 7+ cM cases that are IBS? Ann Turner

Dear Karen, I would be cautious about assuming that a specific number of SNPs in a matching segment guarantees that the segment is IBD. I believe that a significant majority of matching segments that contain over 2000 SNPs are IBD. However, as I pointed out in a recent message at least one matching segment in my recent analysis that was apparently IBS contained 2400 SNPs. My personal view is that a majority of matching segments that contain 1000-2000 SNPs are IBD, but a portion are IBS. Significant caution is advised when evaluating segments where the number of SNPs are under 1000. As Ann Turner and others have pointed out previously you need to be careful about matching segments on chromosome 6 that are between about the 25 million and 35 million BP positions since many of these matching segments contain over 2000 SNPs, but most segments in this region are IBS. Here is some data from my recent analysis of my wife's and my Family Finder data when compared to our parents: # of SNPs %IBD %IBS >2000 95 (78/82) 5 1000-2000 76 (62/82) 24 500-1000 25 (4/16) 75 It should be noted that one of the four segments that was over 2000 that was IBS was on chromosome 6 between the 27 million and 34 million BP positions. Unfortunately the Ancestry Finder data that 23andMe provides doesn't include the number of SNPs in the matching segments. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen Hodges Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 1:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] cM segments for close ancestors Hi Ann There has been a lot of talk about IBD and IBS, with over 10 cMs being IBD. Is there a similiar finding with the number of SNP's where over a certain amount you would be related to the match for sure? Karen

The longest segment between a parent and child is typically the longest chromosome (chr 1) unless there is a mirodeletion which cuts it into more than one segment. There is no association between this and surname. On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Sam Eaton <[email protected]> wrote: > Karen, > > I would need testing of both of your father's parents descendants before I > would even begin to guess on this one. In other words the answer is > unlikely. > > Sam > > > > Hi Ann > > Thank you for the image. > > Dad and I have tested and the longest segment we have in common is 267.21 > cMs with almost 60,000 SNP's, so would it be wrong to guess that the > longest segment is his surname ? The next longest is 206.75 cM's most > likely a grandparent line? All other segments are under 200cMs., with less > than 50,000SNP's > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The different images you see represent the chromosomes, numbered 1 to 22 (the autosomes, or non-sex chromosomes). The chromosomes come in different sizes and are numbered (roughly) in descending order by size. The Chromosome Browser is showing that you match your father across the entire length of chromosome 1, the entire length of chromosome 2, etc. This animation from Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation might help you picture the process of recombination across the generations: http://www.smgf.org/education/animations/autosomal.jspx Ann Turner On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Karen Hodges <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Ann > > Thank you for the image. > > Dad and I have tested and the longest segment we have in common is 267.21 > cMs with almost 60,000 SNP's, so would it be wrong to guess that the > longest segment is his surname ? The next longest is 206.75 cM's most > likely a grandparent line? All other segments are under 200cMs., with less > than 50,000SNP's > > There has been a lot of talk about IBD and IBS, with over 10 cMs being IBD. > Is there a similiar finding with the number of SNP's where over a certain > amount you would be related to the match for sure? > > Karen >

Karen, I would need testing of both of your father's parents descendants before I would even begin to guess on this one. In other words the answer is unlikely. Sam Hi Ann Thank you for the image. Dad and I have tested and the longest segment we have in common is 267.21 cMs with almost 60,000 SNP's, so would it be wrong to guess that the longest segment is his surname ? The next longest is 206.75 cM's most likely a grandparent line? All other segments are under 200cMs., with less than 50,000SNP's

and for me in Firefox. On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Larry Vick <[email protected]> wrote: > Mary Alice, > > It works for me with Google Chrome. > >