I've been tested at 23andMe, and I must admit that, so far, I've only made use of the medical information. I would like to learn how to extract data that would be relevant to the SNPs used to determine someone's Y-DNA haplogroup. (Obviously not out of my own results, but those of particular males.) Specifically, I'm trying to supplement results that are available at FTDNA, such as at the Haplogroup I1 project: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1/default.aspx?section=ysnp How would I go about finding SNP results in Hg I1 males at 23andMe? Diana

Diana, If you are asking how to download the raw data go to "Account" at the top of any screen on 23andMe, then select "Browse Raw Data."  Next, click on the "Download Raw Data" link at the top left (it has a green down arrow icon).  Then select "Y Chromosome" for the data set.  You will have to enter the password and answer the security question. Regards, Larry ________________________________ From: Diana Gale Matthiesen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] extracting Y-DNA SNPs from 23andMe Yes, I'm looking for SNPs in a certain haplogroup, I1, and I'm familiar with the SNPs.  When I ask for a "List of Mutations" for I1, it gives them to me, but when I click on one, it only gives me my result (nc of course).  What I'm trying to find out, ideally, is the haplogroup-relevant SNP status of all the I1 men in the database.  Is there a way to do that?  What does it mean to have access to the raw data?  I think that must be what I need because some people are talking about some "obscure" I1 SNPs being readable/available there, ones that are not on the List. I really mean it when I say all I've ever done at 23andMe is look at my medical data.  I suppose there's a tutorial I should walk through, as in, "If all else fails, read the instructions." Diana

You're speaking of cases where you don't have access to the raw data, but you know the haplogroup? You can use the Haplogroup Tree Mutation Mapper (under Ancestry Labs) and enter any subclade into the query box. The subclade label may very well be different than the one assigned by FTDNA, depending on nomenclature and how deeply the FTDNA customer has been tested. Take a note of the most derived SNP (the one at the top of the results list) and look it up in http://isogg.org/tree under the major haplogroup label. Ann Turner On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Diana Gale Matthiesen <[email protected]>wrote: > I've been tested at 23andMe, and I must admit that, so far, I've only > made use of the medical information. I would like to learn how to > extract data that would be relevant to the SNPs used to determine > someone's Y-DNA haplogroup. (Obviously not out of my own results, but > those of particular males.) Specifically, I'm trying to supplement > results that are available at FTDNA, such as at the Haplogroup I1 > project: > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1/default.aspx?section=ysnp > > How would I go about finding SNP results in Hg I1 males at 23andMe? > > Diana > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Roberta Your paper covers my questions (and more). (You are to be congratulated for preparing such an in-depth analysis). Thank you Gail On 1/04/2012, at 2:35 AM, Roberta Estes wrote: > I did a comparison of this sort and you can read about it in a paper on my > site that was published in JOGG. AT this link, it's the first paper. The > reason you're not getting answers from people is because this is very > complex and as Sam said, it's an imperfect science. > > http://www.dnaexplain.com/Publications/Publications.asp > > Roberta EStes > > -----Original Message----- > > Gail, > > We are at the cutting edge of science. Definitive answers don't exist. I > expect that answers will become more consistent as time goes by, sample size > increases, more people are tested and the history of more SNPs are better > understood. > > If you like third opinions, http://www.dnatribes.com/ specializes in this > sort of analysis. Note, while I have had them examine my 23andMe Raw Data, I > have no idea how their accuracy compares to either FTDNA or 23andMe. > > www.GEDmatch.com provides a home for people trying to experiment with and > research these sorts of issues. > > Most people like predictability and order. A few like Scientists and > Soldiers understand that the world is chaotic and our knowledge of the world > is imperfect. > > Sam > > > ----------------------------------- > > > But I do not understand me (Gail) having a concise African heritage as > opposed to my 2 siblings "D" and "N" having a more general and extended > middle East heritage. > > Nor do I understand tester #6 "J" having such a strong difference to the > remainder of his 5 * 1st cousins - they/we/I are/am all his maternal 1st > cousins. > >

Sam how correct you are. I received a private suggestion to go to Gedmatch - it has been a few months since I have used that wonderful site and I found a number of new utilities. These have helped. But most invaluable came a reminder (as you have said but using different terminology), that I am dealing in averages and statistics AND I KEEP FORGETTING THIS when looking at my own results! Thank you Gail On 31/03/2012, at 9:12 PM, Sam Eaton wrote: > Gail, > > We are at the cutting edge of science. Definitive answers don't exist. I expect that answers will become more consistent as time goes by, sample size increases, more people are tested and the history of more SNPs are better understood. > > If you like third opinions, http://www.dnatribes.com/ specializes in this sort of analysis. Note, while I have had them examine my 23andMe Raw Data, I have no idea how their accuracy compares to either FTDNA or 23andMe. > > www.GEDmatch.com provides a home for people trying to experiment with and research these sorts of issues. > > Most people like predictability and order. A few like Scientists and Soldiers understand that the world is chaotic and our knowledge of the world is imperfect. > > Sam > > > ----------------------------------- > > > Thanks to a number of persons on other "lists", (namely Diana, Leon, Greg), I now direct my query to this list. > > Although I sent this same request for aid to the Yahoo 'Newbies' list (no response) and the genealogy DNA list (no response), I am trying again, but on this list... > > I have administration of 3 paternal cousins and 2 siblings and have tested them with 23andMe and FTDNA for atDNA. > I am needing help with understanding the diverse results reported by FTDNA "Population Finder" (within 'Family Finder') and 23andMe "Ancestry Painting". > > If help not available from this list, could I please be advised as to whom to ask, (or from which list to seek an answer) please? > > I provide a matrix of the results of all 6 of us at http://bit.ly/Gail_atdna and request help in understanding the reported differences, please. > By the way, I understand that the transferred results are highly likely to read slightly differently to the pure FTDNA results and I also understand that the % may well be a little different (including margin of error) due to differing autosomal recombinations. > > But I do not understand me (Gail) having a concise African heritage as opposed to my 2 siblings "D" and "N" having a more general and extended middle East heritage. > > Nor do I understand tester #6 "J" having such a strong difference to the remainder of his 5 * 1st cousins - they/we/I are/am all his maternal 1st cousins. > > And by the way, yes, we are definitely all genetically 1st cousins or siblings - I checked :-) > > Kind regards > Gail Riddell > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I did a comparison of this sort and you can read about it in a paper on my site that was published in JOGG. AT this link, it's the first paper. The reason you're not getting answers from people is because this is very complex and as Sam said, it's an imperfect science. http://www.dnaexplain.com/Publications/Publications.asp Roberta EStes -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sam Eaton Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 4:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Comparisons of ethnicity between FTDNA and 23andMe Gail, We are at the cutting edge of science. Definitive answers don't exist. I expect that answers will become more consistent as time goes by, sample size increases, more people are tested and the history of more SNPs are better understood. If you like third opinions, http://www.dnatribes.com/ specializes in this sort of analysis. Note, while I have had them examine my 23andMe Raw Data, I have no idea how their accuracy compares to either FTDNA or 23andMe. www.GEDmatch.com provides a home for people trying to experiment with and research these sorts of issues. Most people like predictability and order. A few like Scientists and Soldiers understand that the world is chaotic and our knowledge of the world is imperfect. Sam ----------------------------------- Thanks to a number of persons on other "lists", (namely Diana, Leon, Greg), I now direct my query to this list. Although I sent this same request for aid to the Yahoo 'Newbies' list (no response) and the genealogy DNA list (no response), I am trying again, but on this list... I have administration of 3 paternal cousins and 2 siblings and have tested them with 23andMe and FTDNA for atDNA. I am needing help with understanding the diverse results reported by FTDNA "Population Finder" (within 'Family Finder') and 23andMe "Ancestry Painting". If help not available from this list, could I please be advised as to whom to ask, (or from which list to seek an answer) please? I provide a matrix of the results of all 6 of us at http://bit.ly/Gail_atdna and request help in understanding the reported differences, please. By the way, I understand that the transferred results are highly likely to read slightly differently to the pure FTDNA results and I also understand that the % may well be a little different (including margin of error) due to differing autosomal recombinations. But I do not understand me (Gail) having a concise African heritage as opposed to my 2 siblings "D" and "N" having a more general and extended middle East heritage. Nor do I understand tester #6 "J" having such a strong difference to the remainder of his 5 * 1st cousins - they/we/I are/am all his maternal 1st cousins. And by the way, yes, we are definitely all genetically 1st cousins or siblings - I checked :-) Kind regards Gail Riddell ______________________________ For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gail, We are at the cutting edge of science. Definitive answers don't exist. I expect that answers will become more consistent as time goes by, sample size increases, more people are tested and the history of more SNPs are better understood. If you like third opinions, http://www.dnatribes.com/ specializes in this sort of analysis. Note, while I have had them examine my 23andMe Raw Data, I have no idea how their accuracy compares to either FTDNA or 23andMe. www.GEDmatch.com provides a home for people trying to experiment with and research these sorts of issues. Most people like predictability and order. A few like Scientists and Soldiers understand that the world is chaotic and our knowledge of the world is imperfect. Sam ----------------------------------- Thanks to a number of persons on other "lists", (namely Diana, Leon, Greg), I now direct my query to this list. Although I sent this same request for aid to the Yahoo 'Newbies' list (no response) and the genealogy DNA list (no response), I am trying again, but on this list... I have administration of 3 paternal cousins and 2 siblings and have tested them with 23andMe and FTDNA for atDNA. I am needing help with understanding the diverse results reported by FTDNA "Population Finder" (within 'Family Finder') and 23andMe "Ancestry Painting". If help not available from this list, could I please be advised as to whom to ask, (or from which list to seek an answer) please? I provide a matrix of the results of all 6 of us at http://bit.ly/Gail_atdna and request help in understanding the reported differences, please. By the way, I understand that the transferred results are highly likely to read slightly differently to the pure FTDNA results and I also understand that the % may well be a little different (including margin of error) due to differing autosomal recombinations. But I do not understand me (Gail) having a concise African heritage as opposed to my 2 siblings "D" and "N" having a more general and extended middle East heritage. Nor do I understand tester #6 "J" having such a strong difference to the remainder of his 5 * 1st cousins - they/we/I are/am all his maternal 1st cousins. And by the way, yes, we are definitely all genetically 1st cousins or siblings - I checked :-) Kind regards Gail Riddell

Thanks to a number of persons on other "lists", (namely Diana, Leon, Greg), I now direct my query to this list. Although I sent this same request for aid to the Yahoo 'Newbies' list (no response) and the genealogy DNA list (no response), I am trying again, but on this list... I have administration of 3 paternal cousins and 2 siblings and have tested them with 23andMe and FTDNA for atDNA. I am needing help with understanding the diverse results reported by FTDNA "Population Finder" (within 'Family Finder') and 23andMe "Ancestry Painting". If help not available from this list, could I please be advised as to whom to ask, (or from which list to seek an answer) please? I provide a matrix of the results of all 6 of us at http://bit.ly/Gail_atdna and request help in understanding the reported differences, please. By the way, I understand that the transferred results are highly likely to read slightly differently to the pure FTDNA results and I also understand that the % may well be a little different (including margin of error) due to differing autosomal recombinations. But I do not understand me (Gail) having a concise African heritage as opposed to my 2 siblings "D" and "N" having a more general and extended middle East heritage. Nor do I understand tester #6 "J" having such a strong difference to the remainder of his 5 * 1st cousins - they/we/I are/am all his maternal 1st cousins. And by the way, yes, we are definitely all genetically 1st cousins or siblings - I checked :-) Kind regards Gail Riddell

Kewl on the DNA match. I'd rather hoped for something unexpected, like African or Amerind origin, but I'm boringly European. It was a kick to see the difference in ethnicity between myself and two of my first cousins show up quite dramatically. My father is Danish, grandson of an immigrant, while they have Italian fathers, sons of two different immigrants. The test really does work! > From: Dwight Holmes > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:39 PM > > We enjoyed it, too. I was hoping for a bit more on > the DNA testing side, but as Dr Gates is a DNA match > of mine on Family Finder, I won't be too critical :)

We enjoyed it, too. I was hoping for a bit more on the DNA testing side, but as Dr Gates is a DNA match of mine on Family Finder, I won't be too critical :) On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen <[email protected]>wrote: > Well, I have to eat my words on this one. The program kept me fully > engaged for the full two hours, and I even got teary-eyed a couple of > times. I do hope my cousins watched it - and I hope it encourages > more people to get tested. > > Kudos to PBS and Prof. Gates! > > Diana > > > > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 3:23 PM > > > > 23andMe is showing a 10-part PBS series on "Finding > > Your Roots" that beings tomorrow night (Sunday, March > > 25th). The premiere show is two hours long and starts > > at 8pm on PBS. You may want to check your local > > PBS station for the exact date and time. > > > > I tend to find these "roots" TV programs so excruciatingly > > slow moving that I can hardly sit through them, but maybe > > this one will be different. At the very least, I am > > hoping it's interesting for the novice because, if my > > cousins watch it, maybe they will finally become > > enthusiastic about the tests I've been purchasing for > > them! > > > > Diana > > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Well, I have to eat my words on this one. The program kept me fully engaged for the full two hours, and I even got teary-eyed a couple of times. I do hope my cousins watched it - and I hope it encourages more people to get tested. Kudos to PBS and Prof. Gates! Diana > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 3:23 PM > > 23andMe is showing a 10-part PBS series on "Finding > Your Roots" that beings tomorrow night (Sunday, March > 25th). The premiere show is two hours long and starts > at 8pm on PBS. You may want to check your local > PBS station for the exact date and time. > > I tend to find these "roots" TV programs so excruciatingly > slow moving that I can hardly sit through them, but maybe > this one will be different. At the very least, I am > hoping it's interesting for the novice because, if my > cousins watch it, maybe they will finally become > enthusiastic about the tests I've been purchasing for > them! > > Diana

23andMe is showing a 10-part PBS series on "Finding Your Roots" that beings tomorrow night (Sunday, March 25th). The premiere show is two hours long and starts at 8pm on PBS. You may want to check your local PBS station for the exact date and time. I tend to find these "roots" TV programs so excruciatingly slow moving that I can hardly sit through them, but maybe this one will be different. At the very least, I am hoping it's interesting for the novice because, if my cousins watch it, maybe they will finally become enthusiastic about the tests I've been purchasing for them! Diana

Gates tends to get a bit more technical in his shows, which is generally more enjoyable for the genetic genealogist/advanced genealogist. I am blogging with the other 23andMe Ambassadors for this series, probably starting next week. Thanks for reminding everyone about it, Diana! CeCe www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com www.studiointv.com > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:22:47 -0400 > Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] 23andMe 'Finding Your Roots' series on PBS > > 23andMe is showing a 10-part PBS series on "Finding Your Roots" that > beings tomorrow night (Sunday, March 25th). The premiere show is two > hours long and starts at 8pm on PBS. You may want to check your local > PBS station for the exact date and time. > > I tend to find these "roots" TV programs so excruciatingly slow moving > that I can hardly sit through them, but maybe this one will be > different. At the very least, I am hoping it's interesting for the > novice because, if my cousins watch it, maybe they will finally become > enthusiastic about the tests I've been purchasing for them! > > Diana > >

Hi Jim Thank you. Unfortunately the other match does not have the adoptee in her matches. I will wait to hear who the adoptee has in her matches. Karen On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Jim Bartlett <[email protected]>wrote: > > Karen, > > This puts the spotlight on the key point. Clearly the 16-76 segment is > probably IBD (13.87cM) and it was passed down from one of your Dad's > ancestors. The same identical segment was almost certainly passed down > from > the same ancestor to the Adoptee. > > This IBD segment has to come down to your Dad [2], through his father > [4] or > mother [5] [numbers in brackets are Ahnentafel numbers], from a specific > ancestor. > > Now the 3rd Match's 70-76 segment at 5.32 cM may or may not be IBD, but > this > segment MUST come down from one of your Dad's ancestors to your Dad (and > you). Like the above example it MUST come down through your Dad's father > [4] or mother [5] from some specific ancestor. It is possible for the > 13.87 > segment to come down from, say, [4], and the 5.32 segment to come down > from > the other ancestor [5]. That is - any area on a Chromosome will have a > segment from the paternal side and a segment from the maternal side. And > each of these segments is from a specific ancestor on that respective > side. > It is possible for two large identical IBD segments to be from different > parents. But if there are 3 such segments (from cousins, not > parent-child) > at least two of these large identical IBD segments must come from the > same > parent, AND from the same ancestor. > > It's a judgement call, but since your 3rd Match segment overlaps the > 13.87 > segment and ends at exactly the same place, I think it's highly probable > that that 5.32 segment came from the same ancestor as the 13.87 segment, > and > lost some atDNA along the way to the 3rd Match. > > So if you and the 3rd Match can determine a Common Ancestor, the Adoptee > could use that info. If I were the Adoptee, I'd learn as much about the > descendants of that Common Ancestor as I could. Someday when another > Common > Ancestor is found for the Adoptee, and the descendants of that Ancestor > are > traced - sooner or later one of the descendants between these two lines > could match - get an atDNA test of a descendant of that match and see if > it > isn't a VERY close atMatch to the Adoptee. > > I hope anyone on this list will correct me if the concepts above are not > correct. > > This atDNA process is beginning to be very intersting. > > Jim Bartlett > > On 03/14/12, Karen Hodges<[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Jim > Thanks > Chromosome 11 - 4 matches on Dad's list plus Adoptee and 3 on mine. But > only one looks IBD > Adoptee to me 61922748-76029213 segment 13.87, SNPS 3400 > Adoptee to dad 61594120-76029213 segment 13.97 SNPS 3500 > 3rd Match [to dad and I] 70559577-76029213 segment 5.32 SNPS 1200 > The adoptee won't be able to check their record for a few weeks so I will > contact the other match. > Karen > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Jim Bartlett > <[1][email protected]>wrote: > > Karen > > > > One idea, particularly for adopters, is to determine which long atDNA > > segment you share, and then both of you examine all of your other > matches > > for overlapping segments, particularly long ones. Such long segments > can > > only come from two of your Dad's ancestors, one one his paternal side > and > > one from the maternal side. (this is based on such long segments being > IBD, > > and not all of them will be, but it's a place to look). If you can > find a > > Common Ancestor with a third joint match, there is a 50-50 chance that > the > > adoptee will have the same one. The adoptees should be collecting and > > analyzing this kind of clue. > > > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > > > On Mar 14, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Karen Hodges <[2][email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Hi Tim, Ann, Jim and Melissa > > > > > > Thank you all for your help. > > > > > > I have been contact by a person who has been adopted as a baby and > has > no > > > information about their biological family. The person lives in > England > > and > > > I live in Australia. The connection is on my paternal side as they > match > > > with my Dad. > > > > > > I have no idea how to go about sorting out how we connect. Dad is > listed > > > as a 3rd - 5th cousin[13.97cMs snp 3500] and I am listed as a 4th to > > remote > > > [13.87cMs, snp 3400]. Dad had an English Great Great Grandfather who > was > > > married with a child [I have not found them] when he was sent to > > Australia > > > in 1826. He remarried and had a second family which Dad descends > from. > > This > > > is possibly the line we connect on and that was the reason behind my > > > question as I wondered if it might effect the cousin level. > > > > > > Karen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ann Turner <[3][email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> On the average, a half-third cousin would share the same amount of > DNA > > as a > > >> third cousin once removed (i.e., between a third and fourth cousin). > The > > >> range displayed by FF should be bigger to account for the random > > element. > > >> > > >> Ann Turner > > >> > > >> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Karen Hodges > <[4][email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> With Family finder the results say what level cousin the match is > > >> expected > > >>> to be. What happens in the case of half siblings with what level > the > > >> cousin > > >>> will show at? For example if a woman marriages twice and has a > child > > with > > >>> each father. The grandchildren are 1st cousins and the great > > >> grandchildren > > >>> 2nd cousins and great great grandchildren 3rd cousins. But when it > > comes > > >>> to reading the DNA family finder result would it show the > relationship > > as > > >>> this or would it be more distant as the DNA shared is half to begin > > with. > > >>> Would a half third cousin be shown as maybe a third to fifth > cousin? > > >>> > > >>> Karen > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> ______________________________ > > >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, > please > > see: > > >> [5]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> A[6][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > > see: > > > [7]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > A[8][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > > [9]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > A[10][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > [11]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > A[12][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > References > > 1. mailto:[email protected] > 2. mailto:[email protected] > 3. mailto:[email protected] > 4. mailto:[email protected] > 5. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > 6. mailto:[email protected] > 7. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > 8. mailto:[email protected] > 9. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > 10. mailto:[email protected] > 11. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > 12. mailto:[email protected] > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Jim Thanks Chromosome 11 - 4 matches on Dad's list plus Adoptee and 3 on mine. But only one looks IBD Adoptee to me 61922748-76029213 segment 13.87, SNPS 3400 Adoptee to dad 61594120-76029213 segment 13.97 SNPS 3500 3rd Match [to dad and I] 70559577-76029213 segment 5.32 SNPS 1200 The adoptee won't be able to check their record for a few weeks so I will contact the other match. Karen On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Jim Bartlett <[email protected]>wrote: > Karen > > One idea, particularly for adopters, is to determine which long atDNA > segment you share, and then both of you examine all of your other matches > for overlapping segments, particularly long ones. Such long segments can > only come from two of your Dad's ancestors, one one his paternal side and > one from the maternal side. (this is based on such long segments being IBD, > and not all of them will be, but it's a place to look). If you can find a > Common Ancestor with a third joint match, there is a 50-50 chance that the > adoptee will have the same one. The adoptees should be collecting and > analyzing this kind of clue. > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > On Mar 14, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Karen Hodges <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Tim, Ann, Jim and Melissa > > > > Thank you all for your help. > > > > I have been contact by a person who has been adopted as a baby and has no > > information about their biological family. The person lives in England > and > > I live in Australia. The connection is on my paternal side as they match > > with my Dad. > > > > I have no idea how to go about sorting out how we connect. Dad is listed > > as a 3rd - 5th cousin[13.97cMs snp 3500] and I am listed as a 4th to > remote > > [13.87cMs, snp 3400]. Dad had an English Great Great Grandfather who was > > married with a child [I have not found them] when he was sent to > Australia > > in 1826. He remarried and had a second family which Dad descends from. > This > > is possibly the line we connect on and that was the reason behind my > > question as I wondered if it might effect the cousin level. > > > > Karen > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ann Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On the average, a half-third cousin would share the same amount of DNA > as a > >> third cousin once removed (i.e., between a third and fourth cousin). The > >> range displayed by FF should be bigger to account for the random > element. > >> > >> Ann Turner > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Karen Hodges <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> With Family finder the results say what level cousin the match is > >> expected > >>> to be. What happens in the case of half siblings with what level the > >> cousin > >>> will show at? For example if a woman marriages twice and has a child > with > >>> each father. The grandchildren are 1st cousins and the great > >> grandchildren > >>> 2nd cousins and great great grandchildren 3rd cousins. But when it > comes > >>> to reading the DNA family finder result would it show the relationship > as > >>> this or would it be more distant as the DNA shared is half to begin > with. > >>> Would a half third cousin be shown as maybe a third to fifth cousin? > >>> > >>> Karen > >>> > >> > >> > >> ______________________________ > >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > >> http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ______________________________ > > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Tim, Ann, Jim and Melissa Thank you all for your help. I have been contact by a person who has been adopted as a baby and has no information about their biological family. The person lives in England and I live in Australia. The connection is on my paternal side as they match with my Dad. I have no idea how to go about sorting out how we connect. Dad is listed as a 3rd - 5th cousin[13.97cMs snp 3500] and I am listed as a 4th to remote [13.87cMs, snp 3400]. Dad had an English Great Great Grandfather who was married with a child [I have not found them] when he was sent to Australia in 1826. He remarried and had a second family which Dad descends from. This is possibly the line we connect on and that was the reason behind my question as I wondered if it might effect the cousin level. Karen On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ann Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > On the average, a half-third cousin would share the same amount of DNA as a > third cousin once removed (i.e., between a third and fourth cousin). The > range displayed by FF should be bigger to account for the random element. > > Ann Turner > > On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Karen Hodges <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > With Family finder the results say what level cousin the match is > expected > > to be. What happens in the case of half siblings with what level the > cousin > > will show at? For example if a woman marriages twice and has a child with > > each father. The grandchildren are 1st cousins and the great > grandchildren > > 2nd cousins and great great grandchildren 3rd cousins. But when it comes > > to reading the DNA family finder result would it show the relationship as > > this or would it be more distant as the DNA shared is half to begin with. > > Would a half third cousin be shown as maybe a third to fifth cousin? > > > > Karen > > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Karen, This puts the spotlight on the key point. Clearly the 16-76 segment is probably IBD (13.87cM) and it was passed down from one of your Dad's ancestors. The same identical segment was almost certainly passed down from the same ancestor to the Adoptee. This IBD segment has to come down to your Dad [2], through his father [4] or mother [5] [numbers in brackets are Ahnentafel numbers], from a specific ancestor. Now the 3rd Match's 70-76 segment at 5.32 cM may or may not be IBD, but this segment MUST come down from one of your Dad's ancestors to your Dad (and you). Like the above example it MUST come down through your Dad's father [4] or mother [5] from some specific ancestor. It is possible for the 13.87 segment to come down from, say, [4], and the 5.32 segment to come down from the other ancestor [5]. That is - any area on a Chromosome will have a segment from the paternal side and a segment from the maternal side. And each of these segments is from a specific ancestor on that respective side. It is possible for two large identical IBD segments to be from different parents. But if there are 3 such segments (from cousins, not parent-child) at least two of these large identical IBD segments must come from the same parent, AND from the same ancestor. It's a judgement call, but since your 3rd Match segment overlaps the 13.87 segment and ends at exactly the same place, I think it's highly probable that that 5.32 segment came from the same ancestor as the 13.87 segment, and lost some atDNA along the way to the 3rd Match. So if you and the 3rd Match can determine a Common Ancestor, the Adoptee could use that info. If I were the Adoptee, I'd learn as much about the descendants of that Common Ancestor as I could. Someday when another Common Ancestor is found for the Adoptee, and the descendants of that Ancestor are traced - sooner or later one of the descendants between these two lines could match - get an atDNA test of a descendant of that match and see if it isn't a VERY close atMatch to the Adoptee. I hope anyone on this list will correct me if the concepts above are not correct. This atDNA process is beginning to be very intersting. Jim Bartlett On 03/14/12, Karen Hodges<[email protected]> wrote: Hi Jim Thanks Chromosome 11 - 4 matches on Dad's list plus Adoptee and 3 on mine. But only one looks IBD Adoptee to me 61922748-76029213 segment 13.87, SNPS 3400 Adoptee to dad 61594120-76029213 segment 13.97 SNPS 3500 3rd Match [to dad and I] 70559577-76029213 segment 5.32 SNPS 1200 The adoptee won't be able to check their record for a few weeks so I will contact the other match. Karen On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Jim Bartlett <[1][email protected]>wrote: > Karen > > One idea, particularly for adopters, is to determine which long atDNA > segment you share, and then both of you examine all of your other matches > for overlapping segments, particularly long ones. Such long segments can > only come from two of your Dad's ancestors, one one his paternal side and > one from the maternal side. (this is based on such long segments being IBD, > and not all of them will be, but it's a place to look). If you can find a > Common Ancestor with a third joint match, there is a 50-50 chance that the > adoptee will have the same one. The adoptees should be collecting and > analyzing this kind of clue. > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > On Mar 14, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Karen Hodges <[2][email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Tim, Ann, Jim and Melissa > > > > Thank you all for your help. > > > > I have been contact by a person who has been adopted as a baby and has no > > information about their biological family. The person lives in England > and > > I live in Australia. The connection is on my paternal side as they match > > with my Dad. > > > > I have no idea how to go about sorting out how we connect. Dad is listed > > as a 3rd - 5th cousin[13.97cMs snp 3500] and I am listed as a 4th to > remote > > [13.87cMs, snp 3400]. Dad had an English Great Great Grandfather who was > > married with a child [I have not found them] when he was sent to > Australia > > in 1826. He remarried and had a second family which Dad descends from. > This > > is possibly the line we connect on and that was the reason behind my > > question as I wondered if it might effect the cousin level. > > > > Karen > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ann Turner <[3][email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On the average, a half-third cousin would share the same amount of DNA > as a > >> third cousin once removed (i.e., between a third and fourth cousin). The > >> range displayed by FF should be bigger to account for the random > element. > >> > >> Ann Turner > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Karen Hodges <[4][email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> With Family finder the results say what level cousin the match is > >> expected > >>> to be. What happens in the case of half siblings with what level the > >> cousin > >>> will show at? For example if a woman marriages twice and has a child > with > >>> each father. The grandchildren are 1st cousins and the great > >> grandchildren > >>> 2nd cousins and great great grandchildren 3rd cousins. But when it > comes > >>> to reading the DNA family finder result would it show the relationship > as > >>> this or would it be more distant as the DNA shared is half to begin > with. > >>> Would a half third cousin be shown as maybe a third to fifth cousin? > >>> > >>> Karen > >>> > >> > >> > >> ______________________________ > >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > >> [5]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> A[6][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ______________________________ > > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > > [7]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > A[8][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > [9]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > A[10][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ______________________________ For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: [11]http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to A[12][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html 10. mailto:[email protected] 11. http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html 12. mailto:[email protected]

Karen One idea, particularly for adopters, is to determine which long atDNA segment you share, and then both of you examine all of your other matches for overlapping segments, particularly long ones. Such long segments can only come from two of your Dad's ancestors, one one his paternal side and one from the maternal side. (this is based on such long segments being IBD, and not all of them will be, but it's a place to look). If you can find a Common Ancestor with a third joint match, there is a 50-50 chance that the adoptee will have the same one. The adoptees should be collecting and analyzing this kind of clue. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Mar 14, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Karen Hodges <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Tim, Ann, Jim and Melissa > > Thank you all for your help. > > I have been contact by a person who has been adopted as a baby and has no > information about their biological family. The person lives in England and > I live in Australia. The connection is on my paternal side as they match > with my Dad. > > I have no idea how to go about sorting out how we connect. Dad is listed > as a 3rd - 5th cousin[13.97cMs snp 3500] and I am listed as a 4th to remote > [13.87cMs, snp 3400]. Dad had an English Great Great Grandfather who was > married with a child [I have not found them] when he was sent to Australia > in 1826. He remarried and had a second family which Dad descends from. This > is possibly the line we connect on and that was the reason behind my > question as I wondered if it might effect the cousin level. > > Karen > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ann Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On the average, a half-third cousin would share the same amount of DNA as a >> third cousin once removed (i.e., between a third and fourth cousin). The >> range displayed by FF should be bigger to account for the random element. >> >> Ann Turner >> >> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Karen Hodges <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> With Family finder the results say what level cousin the match is >> expected >>> to be. What happens in the case of half siblings with what level the >> cousin >>> will show at? For example if a woman marriages twice and has a child with >>> each father. The grandchildren are 1st cousins and the great >> grandchildren >>> 2nd cousins and great great grandchildren 3rd cousins. But when it comes >>> to reading the DNA family finder result would it show the relationship as >>> this or would it be more distant as the DNA shared is half to begin with. >>> Would a half third cousin be shown as maybe a third to fifth cousin? >>> >>> Karen >>> >> >> >> ______________________________ >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: >> http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

With Family finder the results say what level cousin the match is expected to be. What happens in the case of half siblings with what level the cousin will show at? For example if a woman marriages twice and has a child with each father. The grandchildren are 1st cousins and the great grandchildren 2nd cousins and great great grandchildren 3rd cousins. But when it comes to reading the DNA family finder result would it show the relationship as this or would it be more distant as the DNA shared is half to begin with. Would a half third cousin be shown as maybe a third to fifth cousin? Karen

Here is a real life example: A and B are actually 1/2 3rd cousins 1R, and are 66/67 for their YDNA results, and have a very strong paper trail. For their Family Finder results: FTDNA guesstimated them to be 3rd cousins 2nd Cousin - 4th Cousin (range) 3rd Cousin (suggested) 69.86 (shared) 45.83 (longest) melissa springer robards