I find the scenarios presented by the ICW feature and the CB difficult to comprehend. I wish I knew what questions to ask my matches (i.e., which of the matches they are or are nor matching). For example, My mother matches A, B, C, D and E on an overlapping segment of chr 20. All are ICW each other, except D is not ICW E and E is not ICW D. All I can glean from this is that my mother is matching D and E on different sides of chr 20. Do I have enough information to tentatively assign the others to a certain side? If not, do I need to be asking each one where they match others on this stretch of chr 20? What is the minimally sufficient information I should request of each of them? Thanks, Barton -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tim Janzen Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 10:43 AM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] ICW - inconsistencies Dear Barton, One of the most significant deficiencies in Family Finder is the fact that you can't compare your matches against each other to see which of them match each other. 23andMe allowed their customers to do this over a year ago and it has been a huge help for genetic genealogists who are doing chromosome mapping. FTDNA should follow suit. The best you can do under the circumstances with Family Finder is to ask each of your matches on a specific segment to check their match list to see if the other people who match you on that particular segment also match them. If you have that information then you can assign one group to one chromosome and the other group to the opposite chromosome. There will still likely be some people that you can't assign to one chromosome or the other because they don't match anyone else that you match on that segment. At least some of those matches will be IBS. I agree with Melissa Robards that it would be reasonable to ask all of your Family Finder matches to also upload their data to GEDmatch so you can run comparisons between various matches there. However, some people won't be willing to upload their data to GEDmatch. I frankly don't find the ICW feature in Family Finder very helpful because of the fact that I have already mapped my close relatives' chromosomes using data from first, second and third cousins who have already done Family Finder or have been tested elsewhere. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barton Lewis Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 9:25 AM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] ICW - inconsistencies I have a situation where ten people are overlapping on a segment from 21995381-40581772 on chr 8. There is no rhyme or reason as to who is ICW with who in that there are different permutations for many of the matches in terms of who they are ICW, such that I cannot tell who is on one side of the chr and who is on the other. There is uniformity for some of them in terms of who they are ICW, but not for others and certainly not as a whole, so that I cannot neatly assign some of the ten to one side and the others to the other. Does the ICW feature fail to pick up matches at a certain level? The overlapping segments are all either 8.25, 9.78, 9.92, 11.05 or 15.85 cM. Thanks, Barton ______________________________ For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUTOSOMAL-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you, Tim, for your clarifying remarks. Barton On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 03:05 PM, Tim Janzen wrote: > Dear Barton, > You are correct that it isn't practical to get all of your matches to > upload their data files to GEDmatch, but you can certainly try to do > that if you want to. The difference between GEDmatch and Family > Finder is that you can compare any two of your matches in GEDmatch to > see if they match each other on the same segment that they match you > on. You can't do that in Family Finder. In GEDmatch you first run > the "One-to-many" comparison and make note of the GEDmatch numbers for > your matches on any particular segment. Then run the "One-to-one" > comparison to compare your matches to each other. > Sincerely, > Tim Janzen > > -----Original Message----- > From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of BARTON LEWIS > Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 11:14 AM > To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] ICW - inconsistencies > > Hi Melissa, thanks for your reply. But you would have to have all ten > of those kits uploaded to gedmatch, which isn't very practical. But > even if you could do that, how is gedmatch different from using the > chromosome browser in FTDNA, where you can download all your segment > data and see who is matching you where, but not know which side of the > chromosome pair (unless you can triangulate or easily determine using > ICW)? > > Thanks, > > Barton > > > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUTOSOMAL-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Melissa, thanks for your reply.  But you would have to have all ten of those kits uploaded to gedmatch, which isn't very practical.  But even if you could do that, how is gedmatch different from using the chromosome browser in FTDNA, where you can download all your segment data and see who is matching you where, but not know which side of the chromosome pair (unless you can triangulate or easily determine using ICW)? Thanks, Barton On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 12:55 PM, M Robards wrote: > That is a good case IMO for using GedMatch. You could quickly see who > all > matches who, and how much. I was just doing that same thing but on a > smaller scale. > > melissa > > > On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Barton Lewis wrote: > >> I have a situation where ten people are overlapping on a segment from >> 21995381-40581772 on chr 8. There is no rhyme or reason as to who is >> ICW >> with who in that there are different permutations for many of the >> matches >> in >> terms of who they are ICW, such that I cannot tell who is on one side >> of >> the >> chr and who is on the other. There is uniformity for some of them in >> terms >> of who they are ICW, but not for others and certainly not as a whole, >> so >> that I cannot neatly assign some of the ten to one side and the >> others to >> the other. Does the ICW feature fail to pick up matches at a certain >> level? >> The overlapping segments are all either 8.25, 9.78, 9.92, 11.05 or >> 15.85 >> cM. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Barton >> >> >> ______________________________ >> For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please >> see: >> http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUTOSOMAL-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please > see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUTOSOMAL-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Barton ICW doesn't necessarily mean on the same segment - it means on some segment. So when there is confusion, such as you have, you need to ask them if they match each other on this specific segment. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Sep 29, 2013, at 12:24 PM, Barton Lewis <bartonlewis@optonline.net> wrote: > I have a situation where ten people are overlapping on a segment from > 21995381-40581772 on chr 8. There is no rhyme or reason as to who is ICW > with who in that there are different permutations for many of the matches in > terms of who they are ICW, such that I cannot tell who is on one side of the > chr and who is on the other. There is uniformity for some of them in terms > of who they are ICW, but not for others and certainly not as a whole, so > that I cannot neatly assign some of the ten to one side and the others to > the other. Does the ICW feature fail to pick up matches at a certain level? > The overlapping segments are all either 8.25, 9.78, 9.92, 11.05 or 15.85 cM. > > Thanks, > > Barton

Dear Barton, You are correct that it isn't practical to get all of your matches to upload their data files to GEDmatch, but you can certainly try to do that if you want to. The difference between GEDmatch and Family Finder is that you can compare any two of your matches in GEDmatch to see if they match each other on the same segment that they match you on. You can't do that in Family Finder. In GEDmatch you first run the "One-to-many" comparison and make note of the GEDmatch numbers for your matches on any particular segment. Then run the "One-to-one" comparison to compare your matches to each other. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of BARTON LEWIS Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 11:14 AM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] ICW - inconsistencies Hi Melissa, thanks for your reply. But you would have to have all ten of those kits uploaded to gedmatch, which isn't very practical. But even if you could do that, how is gedmatch different from using the chromosome browser in FTDNA, where you can download all your segment data and see who is matching you where, but not know which side of the chromosome pair (unless you can triangulate or easily determine using ICW)? Thanks, Barton

Dear Barton, One of the most significant deficiencies in Family Finder is the fact that you can't compare your matches against each other to see which of them match each other. 23andMe allowed their customers to do this over a year ago and it has been a huge help for genetic genealogists who are doing chromosome mapping. FTDNA should follow suit. The best you can do under the circumstances with Family Finder is to ask each of your matches on a specific segment to check their match list to see if the other people who match you on that particular segment also match them. If you have that information then you can assign one group to one chromosome and the other group to the opposite chromosome. There will still likely be some people that you can't assign to one chromosome or the other because they don't match anyone else that you match on that segment. At least some of those matches will be IBS. I agree with Melissa Robards that it would be reasonable to ask all of your Family Finder matches to also upload their data to GEDmatch so you can run comparisons between various matches there. However, some people won't be willing to upload their data to GEDmatch. I frankly don't find the ICW feature in Family Finder very helpful because of the fact that I have already mapped my close relatives' chromosomes using data from first, second and third cousins who have already done Family Finder or have been tested elsewhere. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barton Lewis Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 9:25 AM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] ICW - inconsistencies I have a situation where ten people are overlapping on a segment from 21995381-40581772 on chr 8. There is no rhyme or reason as to who is ICW with who in that there are different permutations for many of the matches in terms of who they are ICW, such that I cannot tell who is on one side of the chr and who is on the other. There is uniformity for some of them in terms of who they are ICW, but not for others and certainly not as a whole, so that I cannot neatly assign some of the ten to one side and the others to the other. Does the ICW feature fail to pick up matches at a certain level? The overlapping segments are all either 8.25, 9.78, 9.92, 11.05 or 15.85 cM. Thanks, Barton

That is a good case IMO for using GedMatch. You could quickly see who all matches who, and how much. I was just doing that same thing but on a smaller scale. melissa On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Barton Lewis <bartonlewis@optonline.net>wrote: > I have a situation where ten people are overlapping on a segment from > 21995381-40581772 on chr 8. There is no rhyme or reason as to who is ICW > with who in that there are different permutations for many of the matches > in > terms of who they are ICW, such that I cannot tell who is on one side of > the > chr and who is on the other. There is uniformity for some of them in terms > of who they are ICW, but not for others and certainly not as a whole, so > that I cannot neatly assign some of the ten to one side and the others to > the other. Does the ICW feature fail to pick up matches at a certain > level? > The overlapping segments are all either 8.25, 9.78, 9.92, 11.05 or 15.85 > cM. > > Thanks, > > Barton > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUTOSOMAL-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have a situation where ten people are overlapping on a segment from 21995381-40581772 on chr 8. There is no rhyme or reason as to who is ICW with who in that there are different permutations for many of the matches in terms of who they are ICW, such that I cannot tell who is on one side of the chr and who is on the other. There is uniformity for some of them in terms of who they are ICW, but not for others and certainly not as a whole, so that I cannot neatly assign some of the ten to one side and the others to the other. Does the ICW feature fail to pick up matches at a certain level? The overlapping segments are all either 8.25, 9.78, 9.92, 11.05 or 15.85 cM. Thanks, Barton

Tim Janzen wrote: snip >This approach only works if the group of people you are testing do not come >from an endogamous population. You can't take a similar approach with groups >such as Low German Mennonitesor Jews since there are simply too many >shared genealogical connections in the background that skew the results. The line I am working with are Palatines is this group considered endogamous? They came to Pennsylvania in the early to mid 1700's. Then migrated to Maryland then to Kentucky. My 4th great grandfather was probably born in Maryland he and his brother moved to Kentucky about 1792. My 4th great grandfather married a Catholic. Ann G

Dear Ann, The people from the Palatines (such as Swiss Mennonites) aren't as endogamous as the Low German Mennonites or Ashkenazi Jews, but certainly approach that. This boils down to the percentage of your DNA that comes from a single endogamous group. If you (and your relatives who are being tested) only have one 4th great grandfather who was from the Palatines then you can definitely use the technique I described in my Youngman project. However, you need to exercise caution in the interpretation of your results since the possible genealogical connection is significantly further back in time (6th cousin once removed in your case) than in my case with the Youngman project (1/2 third cousin). Sincerely, Tim -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of AGilchrest@aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:08 PM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] 4th-remote cousin how close The line I am working with are Palatines is this group considered endogamous? They came to Pennsylvania in the early to mid 1700's. Then migrated to Maryland then to Kentucky. My 4th great grandfather was probably born in Maryland he and his brother moved to Kentucky about 1792. My 4th great grandfather married a Catholic. Ann G

Jim, OK, I see what you're getting at. That could be helpful despite the small number of people (especially people identified as more than "your relative" in my CoA. Thanks for explaining this more fully. Karla On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Jim Bartlett <jim4bartletts@verizon.net>wrote: > Karla > > My point was that CoA has your own spreadsheet and a spreadsheet for each > person you share genomes with. The people in each of these spreadsheets are > folks who have completed the survey - many of them have are not sharing > genomes with you, and are thus not included in FI:A. But in your CoA > spreadsheet they are there - with segment data. They help flesh out your > map, and you can message them about Common Ancestors. > > When I open a CoA spreadsheet for someone who is sharing genomes with me, > I sort the spreadsheet on Chr and Start and search for me! I then highlight > everyone above and below me with an overlapping segment. I then look at > this same segment area of my master spreadsheet, and bold the folks who are > also on overlapping segments with me - these are all in a Triangulated > Group for me. Thus me and my Match and all of these bolded folks will share > the same Common Ancestor. The ones on my Match's spreadsheet who are not > bolded, are probably cousins on his/her other side. > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > >

Hello, FTDNA defines the 4th-remote cousin could be as close as 4th cousin or as far as 20th cousin. My mom has a match in this suggested range. I don't match. The match is on chromosome 17, 11.01 cM and 1996 SNPs. Because the cM are above 10 and the SNPs are almost 2000 can I assume that the relationship is closer to the 4th cousin than farther away? The reason I ask is, the matches paper trail goes to a family line that I have suspected my line goes to. If my earliest known ancestors unknown father is a brother to the son of the matches earliest known ancestor then the relationship between the match and my mother would be 6th cousin once removed. These lines go back to the early to mid 1700's in Maryland. I am also waiting for my mom's sisters results and a nephew of my moms results. Thank you Ann G.

Karla My point was that CoA has your own spreadsheet and a spreadsheet for each person you share genomes with. The people in each of these spreadsheets are folks who have completed the survey - many of them have are not sharing genomes with you, and are thus not included in FI:A. But in your CoA spreadsheet they are there - with segment data. They help flesh out your map, and you can message them about Common Ancestors. When I open a CoA spreadsheet for someone who is sharing genomes with me, I sort the spreadsheet on Chr and Start and search for me! I then highlight everyone above and below me with an overlapping segment. I then look at this same segment area of my master spreadsheet, and bold the folks who are also on overlapping segments with me - these are all in a Triangulated Group for me. Thus me and my Match and all of these bolded folks will share the same Common Ancestor. The ones on my Match's spreadsheet who are not bolded, are probably cousins on his/her other side. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Sep 25, 2013, at 9:23 PM, Karla Huebner <calypsospots@gmail.com> wrote: > Jim is right that using one or more spreadsheets is good (although I keep > thinking that surely a database would be better--perhaps because I'm more > familiar with databases than spreadsheets, but also because most of the > data doesn't require calculations but one does want to see different > portions of it for different purposes). > > Countries of Ancestry may be useful for some people, but thus far it has > been pretty much a waste of time for me. <snip>

Dear Ann, In general, I agree with FTDNA's definition of an 11 cM match as being as closely related as a 4th cousin and as distantly related as a 20th cousin. However, an 11 cM match could still be a 3rd cousin and could also be more distantly related than a 20th cousin. My dad has matches at 23andMe who are from the Netherlands and Belgium. Since my dad's Mennonite ancestors left these countries prior to 1600 it seems probable that my dad is no more closely related than being an 15th cousin to these matches. One of my friends who has Croatian ancestry told me recently that he has a match at 23andMe from Iran. There are ancient connections between Iran and Croatia. It seems probable that the ancestor my friend and his match in Iran share lived at least 500 years ago and could have lived as much as 2000 or more years ago. See http://www.iranchamber.com/culture/articles/croatians_cravats_iranian_origin .php and http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats. php for additional background. It would be interesting to see examples of other people who appear to have genealogical connections more than 500 to 1000 years ago who match each other in 23andMe or Family Finder. The relative number of matches you will have for each genealogical level of relationship is a function to two primary variables: the percentage of your relatives who have been tested and the total number of living descendents of the ancestors in question. If you have a lot of 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th cousins then you will have quite a few matches in the various databases if a significant percentage of these cousins have tested. A paper that attempted to look at this issue may be found at http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.10015 55. One of the authors, Graham Coop, has a blog about this paper at http://gcbias.org/2013/05/10/peter-and-is-european-genetic-genealogy-paper-i s-out/. The best way to try to discern the relative degree of genealogical relationship between two people who share an 11 cM HIR is to test more first, second, and third cousins of the two matches on the shared ancestral line. You then average the cMs of the HIRs that these people all share. See my Youngman project summary at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21841126/Youngman%20DNA%20summary.doc for an example of how this can be done. This approach only works if the group of people you are testing do not come from an endogamous population. You can't take a similar approach with groups such as Low German Mennonites or Jews since there are simply too many shared genealogical connections in the background that skew the results. You would need to test quite a few people from different lines of descent (at least 20 or more) in order to establish a genealogical relationship in the range of 6th cousin once removed using this method. Another approach to your problem is to attempt to do what I call "walking the segment back in time" on a chromosome map. With this approach you try to find other people who have a 2nd to 5th cousin genealogical relationship to your match or you on the same ancestral line that you believe the match and you are related on. You then hope that these people share the exact same segment that your match and you share. I recently "walked a segment" back one more generation in time. My uncle shares a segment with one of his paternal first cousins. His pedigree chart is at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=janzen&id=I13. A year ago I tested one of his 5th cousins. The 5th cousin, the first cousin, and my uncle share the same segment. These people all descend from Isaac Zane (b.1753) and Myeerah (b. 1757). See http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=janzen&id=I30&styl e=TABLE for their pedigree chart. I recently got a match at 23andMe who is a 6th cousin of my uncle. This match descends from Isaac Zane's brother Ebenezer Zane (b. 1747). This allowed me to map the shared segment back one more generation to Isaac Zane on my uncle's chromosome map. If you are lucky you might be able to find a 4th or 5th cousin on the same ancestral line who shares the same segment that your mom's match shares with your mom. This would help you feel more comfortable about the hypothesized genealogical relationship at the 6th cousin once removed level of relationship. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of AGilchrest@aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 8:36 AM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] 4th-remote cousin how close Hello, FTDNA defines the 4th-remote cousin could be as close as 4th cousin or as far as 20th cousin. My mom has a match in this suggested range. I don't match. The match is on chromosome 17, 11.01 cM and 1996 SNPs. Because the cM are above 10 and the SNPs are almost 2000 can I assume that the relationship is closer to the 4th cousin than farther away? The reason I ask is, the matches paper trail goes to a family line that I have suspected my line goes to. If my earliest known ancestors unknown father is a brother to the son of the matches earliest known ancestor then the relationship between the match and my mother would be 6th cousin once removed. Thank you Ann G.

Tim and Jim, Thank you. For your help. I have my data in an excel workbook containing several sheets. One of the sheets has all the downloaded data. I have been "hiding" the lines that have the small segments and then copy the longer ones to a separate sheet. I also have sheets for each persons match lists. Ann G.

Ann I download all the segments, and save them. I copy only 7cM segments to my master spreadsheet (every FTDNA match will have at least one segment). I drop down to 5cM for known close relatives. After you determine, say, 100 Common Ancestors, and have a number of assigned segments, you could then check the small segments to see if they fit. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Sep 27, 2013, at 6:35 PM, AGilchrest@aol.com wrote: > Hello, > > I am wondering if there is any advantage to not deleting the short segments > and small SNPs from your spreadsheet and instead hiding them so they are > not visible. > > > Ann G. >

Dear Ann, I presume that you are referring to FTDNA Family Finder data in your message below since FTDNA provides matching HIR data for HIRs as short as 1 cM. What I have done in my master spreadsheets is to delete all HIRs less than 3.5 cMs from the spreadsheets. I keep the other data (the HIR data for HIRs between 1 and 3.5 cMs) in the original file I downloaded from DNAGEDCOM for reference if I need it. I think that 3.5 cMs is a reasonable "sweet spot" in this regard. A relatively low percentage of HIRs less than 3.5 cMs in length will be IBD. There will still be quite a few HIRs that are longer than 3.5 cMs that are IBS, but I prefer to err on the side of keeping some HIRs in my master spreadsheet that are IBS rather than deleting some HIRs that are IBD. In any case, I definitely wouldn't set your threshold any higher than 7 cMs for Family Finder data. I use the same threshold for GEDmatch data, which is primarily a reflection of Ancestry.com data that I don't already have from Family Finder or 23andMe. Sincerely, Tim Janzen -----Original Message----- From: autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:autosomal-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of AGilchrest@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 3:36 PM To: autosomal-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] Short segments, Small SNP Hello, I am wondering if there is any advantage to not deleting the short segments and small SNPs from your spreadsheet and instead hiding them so they are not visible. Ann G.

Angie Bush wrote a blog about AncestryDNA's most recent "educational video" pointing out some problems with that was shared: http://www.genesandtrees.com/1/post/2013/09/genetic-genealogy-education.html CeCe Moore www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com

Hello, I am wondering if there is any advantage to not deleting the short segments and small SNPs from your spreadsheet and instead hiding them so they are not visible. Ann G.

Hi Ann, In cases such as this, I recommend noting all the pairs of common ancestors and tabling one's determination until other matches appear on the specific segment. Very Respectfully, Mr. Shannon S. Christmas Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:53 PM, AGilchrest@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Shannon, > Thank you that was what I was thinking. I should have also added that > Samuel and Martha's father married Nancy who was the granddaughter of James. > Priscilla was the daughter of Sarah who is also a granddaughter of James. > Making this a double double relationship. > Since I have yet to find another match on these two segments I am inclined > to "map" to Martha. > Ann G. > In a message dated 27-Sep-13 12:42:27 Pacific Daylight Time, > shannon.s.christmas@gmail.com writes: > > Hi Ann, > To definitively identify the common ancestors, you must review the > pedigrees of other matches with whom you, your mother, and Person A share > this particular segment. In your case, Person A could have inherited the > segment from either Samuel or Priscilla via the shared grandparents, or > Person A could have inherited the segment from Samuel via the *other* > parent he shared with Martha, the parent who was not a biological > uncle/aunt of Priscilla. Combing through the pedigrees of everyone sharing > this segment will help bring the ancestral source of this segment into > focus. > > I hope this helps. Thank you for bringing this excellent case to us. I look > forward to hearing from you. > > Very Respectfully, > Shannon > > > > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:59 PM, <AGilchrest@aol.com> wrote: > >> >> Hello, >> My mom and I match person A on Chromosome 6, me 9.79 cM, total SNP's > 2470, >> mom 9.55 cM total SNPs 2370 [Yes mine is larger, end numbers are the > same] >> & on Chromosome 8, 10.83 cM, total SNP 2056. Start & stop numbers are > the >> same for Mom & I. >> Mom and I descend from Martha. Person A descends from Martha's brother >> Samuel and his wife Priscilla. Samuel & Priscilla are 1st cousins. > Samuel, >> Priscilla and Martha's grandparents are John & Elizabeth. >> Should both these segments map to the cousins or the grandparents >> children? Am I correct in assuming that Person A could have received the >> matching >> segment from either Samuel or Priscilla? >> Thank you, >> Ann G > > -- > Mr. Shannon S. Christmas > Chief Market Advisor | Design Strategist > The Christmas Collective <http://thechristmascollective.com/> > Strategic Real Estate and Land Use Solutions > New York, NY | Washington, DC > P: 212.433.0586 | 202.618.1687 > F: 1.888.788.5984 > shannon.christmas@thechristmascollective.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/shannonchristmas/ > > > ______________________________ > For answers to Frequently Asked Questions about mailing lists, please see: > http://dgmweb.net/MailingListFAQs.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUTOSOMAL-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message