Ms. Pike, Graveyards are a mine of information for historians and genealogists alike. It is an enriching, not a destrutive process. Don't confuse primary sources with primary resources! Margaret Cox Upwey

Yes, Jan you're right, they are just copies. Also looking at sending them to other politicians and newspapers in case the ones to Ms Pike get 'lost'. -- Jenny Boyer Harkaway, Victoria

Hi Annie As far as I know there is no connection with your Rev Henry Wiles. Bryan father arrived in Australia in 1922 and he came from Yorkshire. He grandmother arrived sometime after that but I can't find out went. There was not a great family connection on my Wiles side Sheelagh Wiles nee Nugent ----- Original Message ----- From: <lotocki@ozemail.com.au> To: <AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 9:59 PM Subject: [[AUS-CEM]] Re: [[AUS-CEM]] Re: [[AUS-CEM]] Final Resting Places for our Ancestors > Dear Sheelagh, > I just noticed your surname and wondered whether you have any connection with the Rev Henry Wiles. He married Elizabeth Octavia Williams. Details on our web site at www.williamsfamilyoz.com > Regards, > Annie > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > > > > ==== AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > More information can be found on our Web Page for Cemetery Listings > by state and addresses for Cemeteries also. > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~batman/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

BlankJenny Boyer could you please make contact with me direct please off list Many Thanks, Ray. List Admin. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

Yes please, Sharyn, I'd be very interested in this little tidbit :)

Hi Denise, Have you tried Fawkner? www.fcmp.com.au If you put Morrow (or whatever)in the surname section and % in the christian name, there are a few definate possibles. -- Jenny Boyer Harkaway, Victoria

Hi I have just found an internment at Fawkner for John Christopher DWYER d 20/8/2003 service 26/8/2003 I think that is could be the grandson of my gg grandparents. AS I have been trying for ages and ages and ages to find any descendants of Michael and Catherine DWYER, would there be sks out there who doesn't throw out their newspapers on a daily basis, and who would still have those dates at hand, who could look up the funeral notices in the Melbourne paper for me and pass on any details to me. Or is there a web site with recent bdm notices for Melbourne? Your help is very much appreciated, as this has been a long slow unproductive road to date. Cheers Di Canberra Aus dneumann@bigpond.com

Dear Sheelagh, I just noticed your surname and wondered whether you have any connection with the Rev Henry Wiles. He married Elizabeth Octavia Williams. Details on our web site at www.williamsfamilyoz.com Regards, Annie This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au

So join me please one voice can be stronger with others too please?? Ray. ~O^O~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheelagh Wiles" <aquarius49@bigpond.com> To: <AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 7:01 PM Subject: [[AUS-CEM]] Re: [[AUS-CEM]] Final Resting Places for our Ancestors Go for it Raymond, it is great to see such a strong voice for our places of importance Keep your strong voice speaking out loud, Raymond Sheelagh Wiles aquarius49@bigpond.com.au http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/hunter2000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond W Henderson" <batie@bigpond.net.au> To: <AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 6:26 PM Subject: [[AUS-CEM]] Final Resting Places for our Ancestors > I'm sorry Ms Pike, don't you think the Government has damaged the face of Victoria enough all ready? First you sell off the railways, then you sell off the S.E.C then the Gas and part of Telstra local government buildings and now you want to claim back our final resting places! > > No Ms Pike, no it's not on just goes to show what little respect you have in desecrating our ancestors final resting places, ask your own family how they feel in having your families graves bulldozed over? > > Raymond W. Henderson > Historian > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03 > > > ==== AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > ================================================================== > Cemetery Records on line:- > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~batman/ > ================================================================== > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > ==== AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== ================================================================== Anyone who wishes to make direct contact with Administrators of this site may do so by Ray <batie@bigpond.net.au> ================================================================== ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

Dear Ms Pike, I wish to protest against the proposed changes to the Cemeteries and Crematoria Bill. I specifically wish to protest against proposals to significantly alter the fabric, layout and maintenance of old and disused cemeteries. Cemeteries are a rich source of cultural and botanical history. The layout of cemeteries, the monuments in their entirety (not just the headstones), the grave mounds, the fencing, the paths, and a host of factors make every cemetery unique and a distinct source for cultural history. For example if a family has a large plot in the most prominent position it is an indicator of their wealth and status. Families buried in close proximity often indicate associations in life and death. The removal of grave mounds to facilitate maintenance also removes any indication of burials for which there may be no written record. Cemeteries are also an indication of different ethnic groups, their role in society and their culture. The work of stonemasons is also of great significance to history as are the host of other factors which make up a cemetery. It has also been well documented that cemeteries often contain remnant vegetation. This can range from indigenous plants to roses and other garden plants, varieties of which are no longer known to modern cultivation. In addition, trees are often listed in conservation reports as significant to the overall value of the cemetery and often worthy of protection in their own right. The proposed changes do not take into account the historical, cultural and local significance of cemeteries. A cemetery is not merely an inert collection of monuments. It is a diverse and complex collection of historical indicators. I would like to propose that community comment be sought at a local level. Many historical groups are willing to maintain cemeteries, and groups such as Rotary often adopt cemeteries in a bid to save their history. Yours sincerely, -- Jenny Boyer Harkaway, Victoria (Adv Dip Loc & App History - UNE)

BlankIf you are interested in voicing your opinion to Ms. Pike her email addy is - bronwyn.pike@parliament.vic.gov.au --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

I'm sorry Ms Pike, don't you think the Government has damaged the face of Victoria enough all ready? First you sell off the railways, then you sell off the S.E.C then the Gas and part of Telstra local government buildings and now you want to claim back our final resting places! No Ms Pike, no it's not on just goes to show what little respect you have in desecrating our ancestors final resting places, ask your own family how they feel in having your families graves bulldozed over? Raymond W. Henderson Historian --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

Go for it Raymond, it is great to see such a strong voice for our places of importance Keep your strong voice speaking out loud, Raymond Sheelagh Wiles aquarius49@bigpond.com.au http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/hunter2000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond W Henderson" <batie@bigpond.net.au> To: <AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 6:26 PM Subject: [[AUS-CEM]] Final Resting Places for our Ancestors > I'm sorry Ms Pike, don't you think the Government has damaged the face of Victoria enough all ready? First you sell off the railways, then you sell off the S.E.C then the Gas and part of Telstra local government buildings and now you want to claim back our final resting places! > > No Ms Pike, no it's not on just goes to show what little respect you have in desecrating our ancestors final resting places, ask your own family how they feel in having your families graves bulldozed over? > > Raymond W. Henderson > Historian > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03 > > > ==== AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > ================================================================== > Cemetery Records on line:- > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~batman/ > ================================================================== > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Everyone Our Government's latest "BRIGHT IDEA" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cemeteries Park Plan Melbourne Herald Sun September 4, 2003 Old Cemeteries will no longer be sacred ground. Under new state laws some could be parkland. Headstones at some cemeteries dating from the 1800's could be removed and graves grassed over. Health Minister Bronwyn Pike said yesterday it would be a last resort for ageing and unused cemeteries under the Cemeteries and Crematoria Bill. Detailed records and photographs would be kept of all information on tombstones and memorials to be kept in trust for generations to come. Ms Pike said cemeteries would be converted into parks only with the support of local communities and any families with relatives buried there. "This would only happen if the Health Minister believed a conversion into a park would be more respectful treatment for a place of burial than letting it fall into disrepair and neglect," she said. Other options would include fencing memorial areas off to allow public access to the rest of cemetery land. Genealogical Society of Victoria Spokesperson Joy Roy said cemeteries were historically important and the society did not want to see any converted into parkland. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Im sorry Ms Pike, but I would much prefer my grandchildren to be able to visit their ancestors graves than have to search through documents and photographs (for which the Government will undoubtable charge a fee). And excuse me, but what respect is there in desecrating our ancestors final resting places To voice your opinion regarding this story please email Ms Pike bronwyn.pike@parliament.vic.gov.au Thanks Sharyn

Hi Sharyn, Yes, could you please forward it to me, Leona in Toowoomba kingskid@ozxpress.com.au -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.

I have read the story in today Sun. I too am appalled. Can I suggest everyone send an objection to Minister Bronwyn Pike at bronwyn.pike@parliament.vic.gov.au and express your concerns! John Shorten

Yes I think we all be pleased to know what this Government is up too as they cannot be trusted, first of all they want to shorten the ownership of grave now they want to be knocking down headstone and destroying our history what next will they do they've sold everything else off now they want our cemeteries too But this is only my feeling on the matter wonder if they are offering to record everything and take photos and archive them for people like us or our future grandchildren to search to find it went to the tip! No way. Lets start making noise now before it's far to later? But it my personal feels on the matter maybe you will not agree with me. Regards, Ray. ~O^O~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharyn Ward" <followthattree@iprimus.com.au> To: <AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:33 PM Subject: [[AUS-CEM]] Turning Cemeteries into Parklands Health Minister Bronwyn Pike is considering removing Headstones from some of our old cemeteries and turning the them into parklands!!!!!!!!!!!! If anyone is interested in reading this story please let me know and I will forward it to you. Sharyn ==== AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== ================================================================== Cemetery Records on line:- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~batman/ ================================================================== ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

Yes please Sharyn. Thanks Zita -----Original Message----- From: Sharyn Ward [mailto:followthattree@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2003 12:03 PM To: AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [[AUS-CEM]] Turning Cemeteries into Parklands Health Minister Bronwyn Pike is considering removing Headstones from some of our old cemeteries and turning the them into parklands!!!!!!!!!!!! If anyone is interested in reading this story please let me know and I will forward it to you. Sharyn ==== AUSTRALIA-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== ================================================================== Cemetery Records on line:- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~batman/ ================================================================== ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hi Everyone, Many thanks Sharyn for the article. As a Pommy in the UK I'd like to express concern and sympathy and for the proposed "cemetery to parkland" scheme as this is very close to my heart. I hope my comments will not be seen as interfering but as helpful suggestions - and anyway you've probably got this up-and-running already.<g> At the risk of having boomerangs whizzing past my ears, here goes :- Any action needs to start now as it will soon be summer and many people slow up/stop researching in the hot weather - especially when you have such wonderful weather. (envious grin) How about :- 1. Using the headstones as a fence so they can be viewed. 2. A plan of the graveyard is a "must" - it could be that relatives were buried beside each other. 3. Rather than Government officials (with no sympathy/knowledge of genealogy) undertaking the recording and photographing of headstones, why not ask them for "grant" ie. get them to finance you to do this work on their behalf ? The experience and knowledge of genealogists must be brought to bear. (The fiasco we had with the UK 1901 Census is something that needs to be avoided. Genealogists were not consulted, or listened to, before the work was started which resulted in absolute shambles and a flawed source document.) :-(( 4. How about getting the support of all the Ozzie Family History Societies (FHS) ? If the FHS and their members give support, you may be able to get them to help as volunteers. Also, other genealogists (non-FHS members) might be interested in supporting/helping you. How about a poster in the Record Offices. libraries etc. 5. Would suggest forming a team to co-ordinate a "pressure group" representing genealogists (could be 3 people or less) - so, when talking to the Press/media, you are seen to be speaking with one voice rather than as individuals. The "pressure group co-ordinators" need not be in the same area of the country - co-ordinate by email/phone. Get out a press release to all the FHS / websites telling everyone about the pressure group. Perhaps have a meeting when most of the "setting up" work has been established - possibly in a graveyard, or at a convenient place. Take photo of attendees, and do another press release. Possibly get local press along to the meeting + photographer <g> Get supporters along too. Perhaps FH Societies could advise on where a "cemetery to parkland" scheme is planned, and the pressure group could support the local objectors. 6. Would suggest the pressure group establishes how they propose to do the recording and photographing, and then discuss this with the Government (Ms Pike ?) with suitable pre-publicity supplied by the pressure group with a follow up after the meeting.<g> That way, if a Recording Procedure for "cemetery to parkland" scheme could be established and uniformly followed throughout Oz. If successful, if could be adopted/adapted and used elsewhere. This is, fighting your corner and working with the "enemy" to achieve the result.<bg> If this is not practical, Recording Procedure forms could be created by the pressure group to ensure that all the information is recorded. 7. Keeping the Family History Societies and their members up-to-date with the Government's/your current position. Put articles in their (FHS) magazines or on their websites - anywhere in fact.<g> Get the local FHS members to write objecting letters to their local/national Press. 8. Would suggest that individual letters are also sent to the person concerned (Ms Pike ?). Emails may be quicker and acceptable to the Government, but, (I believe), there would no way for you to check/prove how many emails they had received. Not good, when you are trying to establish the volume of your support.<vbg> 9. Here in the UK, individual letters seem to carry more weight rather than a lot of signatures on a petition. It may be the opposite with you.<g> 10. A "list of points to be included" could be available to help people to write their letter/email. It may be that a uniform letter with an individual's signature on the bottom would not have the same impact. Here, they can be looked upon as a single objection. 11. Are there any Government or influential/famous people doing genealogy ? If so, how about getting them on board ? 12. Could/would a famous person's grave be affected by a "cemetery to parkland" scheme ? There's nothing like publicity and a popular famous person.<g> 13. How about getting the support/advice of the Ozzie Federation of FHS ? Contact existing websites with cemetery information for guidance ? 14. As the "cemetery to parkland" scheme affects other nationalities buried in the graveyard - the issue could possibly be widened to genealogists worldwide.<g> Therefore, you could possibly contact the Society of Genealogists and Federation of Family History Societies (both in the UK) as well as FH societies in UK and USA.<g> 15. Other (non-genie) people could be objecting eg. those with graves in cemeteries etc. The pressure group could get in contact with them, and perhaps co-ordinate your efforts in the fight. I hope I haven't offended anyone by the above as I know things are done differently. I have made interfering suggestions as Government "improvements" like this can never be re-instated. FYI, we are helping to record headstones for our local FHS in Sussex as well as recording and photographing Akehurst + variants headstones (worldwide where possible <g>). In one churchyard, the broken headstones have been used as crazy paving in the pathways around the church ... sob ... sob. Unfortunately, each piece has no connection to its neighbour. There is no easy way to record the graveyard information - just hard work by a dedicated few with the help of others, all of whom will probably be the unsung heroes of future researchers - but that's genealogy.<g> If I can help - please let me know. I will now, very slowly, bring my head below the parapet.<g> Regards and apologies for the length of this email. Judith judith.akhurst@one-name.org

Health Minister Bronwyn Pike is considering removing Headstones from some of our old cemeteries and turning the them into parklands!!!!!!!!!!!! If anyone is interested in reading this story please let me know and I will forward it to you. Sharyn