Hi Denise, Thanks very much for all your help. I am really sorry that I could not get to the Circus, perhaps next year. I had some time this afternoon and have just started to sort out my mail. I don't like to unsubscribe all the time when we go away but sometimes the amount of mail gets a bit beyond me. My memory is not what it was. To answer some questions. Q. Were they married in the first place? Yes in Liverpool the year that they left for OZ. 1848 A. Marriage Certificate January 23rd at St Thomas Church Liverpool Names Charles Thornton Jane Glover Age Full Full Con Bachelor Spinster Occ Labourer Add Liverpool Liverpool Father George Thornton James Glover His Occ Farmer Farmer Witness John Blackstock Mary Glover It is likely that John Blackstock was a church dignitary. This family had a nearby street named after them. Mary may have been Jane's sister. From ship's records they were both born around 1825 . Q::::::Who was the child in arms? There is no child born to a Jane Thornton pre1864 on the Cd's. You say deserted. You mean Mary Jane deserted by mother who left the father? A:::::::No I meant that either Jane deserted Charles or he deserted her with a child who could have been a second child It could have been Mary Jane but she would have been 6 or 7 a bit unlikely I think. One wonders how (or if) the child, if it was Mary Jane, got to be with her father after that episode. Q. Have you checked the shipping records for Doctors reports - illness, babies, family disputes, problems etc etc I checked Log of Logs (which indexes what records are available for each ship) and could not find any entry for the Manchester. I am still looking into it. Q. I put out a question to you on the list as to whether you had seen the posting the other day fromTitan's Field? It mentioned Charles Thornton being manager for Gemmell and his produce property etc. What I am now confused about is this murder of German Joe. Was Charles working for Gemmell at the same time/not ever/ or at another date? Indigo Murder SATURDAY FEBRUARY 26, 1859 "Charles Thornton, manager for Mr Vivers, Woorajay............. " Vivers was the manager for Dr Gemmel when he went back to Scotland perhaps he had a lease. In 1857, Mr J Lowrie was gazetted as lessee About the advertisements you sent . You said " The smaller ad was in paper in 1855 - stupidly I didn't put the date - it happens to be part of a page I copied, so when I find that I'll let you know the exact date." This one in 1855 seems to be the earliest evidence of Charles in Wooragee. I am not sure which one it was. You said "Interesting to see Magpie Swamp Wooragee--perhaps his own property. This one was in the O and M 18/10/1864" A:::::::::::::"Wanted a SLAUGHTERING butcher. Must be a thoroughly competent man and one accustomed to ride. Apply to Charles Thornton Magpie Swamp, Wooragee" B::::::::::::::::GRAZING PADDOCK A 500 acre PADDOCK at WOORAJAY, which has been improving all this winter IS NOW OPEN for the accommodation of HORSES at 5 PER WEEK apply to Mr THORNTON, at Woorajay Station C::::::::::::::::::::::EUREKA Will stand this season at MAGPIE SWAMP WOORAGEE This horse is of p........... chestnut colour without a spick. Stands over 16 hands high and possesses great bone and muscle. He was bred by Mr McAllister of Albury and got by ETHER out of a favourite mare Miss Slater. Both mare and dam are of the best blood in the colonies. Terms Three guineas each mare , one mare in five given in Any mare served by Eureka this year and not having proven in foal will have his service this year for half price. A large and secure PADDOCK with abundant grass and water. The greatest care taken without responsibility. All mares to be taken away before the 1st January 1855. or five shillings a week will be charged after that date. CHARLES THORNTON In the deposit list for the ship (Manchester) it said that Charles was given 3 months work by R.P. Merv** (couldn't read the last 2 letters) I looked in the 1847 directory to see if that person was listed and found P. Mervin a wholesale dealer and thought that might have been him but I have just found a R.P. Mervan who lived in Lonsdale St so perhaps it was him. I found this in the Unclaimed Letter Office Records Jan - Jun 1852 letter to Charles Thornton, Staughton, River Exe (this is likely to be what is now Staughton Vale on the Werribee River about 50 miles west of Melbourne) Could be him ??? another letter to Charles Thornton - Melbourne Unfortunately the letters no longer exist just these details in a book. I will keep sending what I find so that you can decide if any of it is useful to you. There is so much uncertain. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise McMahon" <helendmc@powerup.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 6 April 2002 11:13 Subject: Re: [AVNE] Jane Thornton > Wow, what an investigation you will need to launch! > > A. Did she die by spearing. Have you checked the O and M, the > Constitution, the Albury/Belvoir papers etc? > > No such death onCd's and from memory nothing on the INquests. No, nothing > just checked under Glover and Thornton > > B. Were they married in the first place? > > C. Who was the child in arms? There is no child born to a Jane Thornton > pre1864 on the Cd's. > > I still think she was speared, because unless there was a cover up story for > friends family and Mary Jane, why would it be reported in her Obit as > spearing. > > If the Jane Thornton was indeed carrying a child who was in fact Mary Jane, > how did she end up back in Wooragee and where did Jane go? > > Oh, what a one to uncover. Newspapers and you seem to be well into them. > > Thanks for keeping me abreast - I keep adding the bits to the Wooragee > story. I am really considering putting the story onto CD as it is over 90 > pages now and the cost of production would be awful. With the way Di has > set out Omeo Cd , mine would come up a treat if done the same way. I have > some rather long stories of some of the families, and only a small number > without anything at all. > > Denise > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anne Hollingshead" <hollies@melbpc.org.au> > To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 7:30 AM > Subject: [AVNE] Jane Thornton > > > > > > Denise, > > > > I also found this, maybe Charles was not a widower - but Jane Glover is > not > > an uncommon name !!! > > > > 31 Dec 1856 ARGUS > > > > "Jane Thornton: a woman who looked as if she had once been a respectable > and > > who carried a child in her arms was charged with vagrancy. She was found > > lying in a case in a state of great apparent destitution. She said that > she > > had lately come from Castlemaine and was footsore and miserable. The bench > > promised to give her a letter to the Immigrant's Home Committee." > > > > The Victorian Historical Magazine" Vol 16 Page 7 > > "In November 1854 ("The Immigrant's Aid Society') obtained possession of > > disused government buildings on the Canvas Town site......settled down the > > care of the sick and destitute in this latest established immigrant's Home > > The next two or three years saw a rapid transition to the status of a > > regular poor-house. In 1856 the home was appropriated when not occupied by > > new arrivals to the reception of convalescent patients from the hospitals, > > destitute woman and children with children and other houseless persons' > > .............. By 1861 they had been 'compelled to relax the stringent of > > their rule not to assist persons who have resided in the colony for a > period > > of two years." > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Denise McMahon" <helendmc@powerup.com.au> > > To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, 5 April 2002 6:08 > > Subject: Re: [AVNE] Obituary of MRS. M. A. TINNING > > > > > > > Anne - what do you think of the spearing report now. Closer to the > truth > > > than previously? > > > > > > Denise > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Anne Hollingshead" <hollies@melbpc.org.au> > > > To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 1:27 PM > > > Subject: [AVNE] Obituary of MRS. M. A. TINNING > > > > > > > > > > I thought there may be some general interest in this > > > > > > > > MRS. M. A. TINNING > > > > An interesting link with old Tarrawingee was broken on Thursday last > by > > > the > > > > death of Mrs. Mary Jane Tinning, of "Dugval" Prince Alfred avenue, Mc > > > > Kinnon, Melboume. Mrs. Tinning had attained the great age of 91 and > > > because > > > > she retained a splendid memory for people and events spread over > nearly, > > a > > > > century, she was always intensely interesting. Her life had covered > the > > > > hectic gold rush days, with their accompaniment of bushranging, coach > > > > stick-ups, and the dangers early Victorian settlers had to constantly > > from > > > > the aborigines. > > > > The late Mrs. Tinning was born on board an incoming sailing vessel in > > Port > > > > Phillip Bay nearly a century ago .Her name was Thornton, and some time > > > after > > > > reaching Melbourne she went with her parents to live at Wooragee. It > was > > > > there that her mother was subsequently fatally speared by the blacks. > > > > In the year of 1868 Miss Thornton was married to James Tinning, who > was > > > the > > > > resident at 'Wahgunyah, where he was an overseer, for-Graham Bros' big > > > > vineyard there. The wedding was celebrated at Beechworth, the minister > > > being > > > > the Rev W. L. Howard. Mrs. Tinning was then 20 years old. Mr and Mrs > > > Tinning > > > > then went to live at Tarrawingee, where Mr. Tinning bought the stone > > flour > > > > mills (which been built by Wm. Shields) from Graham and Wilson. That > was > > > > nearly 70 years ago. Tarrawingee was then a very important hamlet, > with > > > its > > > > wheat farms and it was also a stopping place for coaches and wagons on > > > their > > > > way up to the gold rushes at Beechworth and Moss Creek (Wandiligong) > > and > > > > Buckland. It. was at Tarrawingee that the four sons comprising the > > family > > > > were born Messrs. Charlie Tinning (Fitzroy), William and Irving > > (deceased) > > > > and Mr James Tinning (Mc Kinnon), with whom Mrs Tinning has lived for > > many > > > > years. > > > > While living at Tarrawingee Mr. and .Mrs donated a baptismal font to > the > > > > Church of England there, the first to be christened with it being Mr > > James > > > > Tinning and Mrs Miniford (then Miss Jean Mc Gregor) whose father > > William > > > W > > > > Mc Gregor conducted the smithy in the old Tarrawingee. Rev Mr Poole > was > > > the > > > > minister. > > > > Mr James Tinning was connected with the early Masonic Lodge in > > Wangaratta, > > > > and at the time; of his death in 1880,was the Junior warden of the > > lodge. > > > > The lodge accorded him, a Masonic funeral. He died at Whitty's horse > and > > > > Jockey Hotel, and his grave may still be seen in, the Wangaratta > > cemetery. > > > > The grave next to his is that of Mr George Faithfull the original > > pastoral > > > > settler of Wangaratta, and 'nearby in cells for ever laid,' so many of > > the > > > > 'forefathers of the hamlet sleep'. > > > > The old flour mill at Tarrawingee was leased by Messrs. J. Chicken and > > > Alex > > > > Clements, and was afterwards sold to old John Smith. Later the mill > was > > > > destroyed by fire. At the opening of this old Tarawingee mill Mrs. > > > Shields, > > > > wife of the owner climbed the chimney stack and put the finishing > brick > > on > > > > it. Mr. Tinning when at the flourmills, carried off several prizes in > > > > Wangaratta for pearl barley and wheat. etc. > > > > After the death of her husband Mrs Tinning went to Melbourne where she > > > > opened a grocer's shop at Carlton and carried on the business for many > > > > years. She had enjoyed splendid health up until the last few years > > except > > > > for failing eyesight. For the past 14 years, she had lived with her > > grand > > > > daughter Mrs V. Cochran Mc Kinnon and her son James also living with > her > > > as > > > > well. She was a well-known identity at McKinnon and was universally > > > beloved. > > > > She loved to meet people whom she had known in the early days and > recall > > > > some of the stirring incidents of the feverish goldrush days. > > > > She was buried in the Brighton cemetery on Friday, in the presence of > > > > several old Tarrawingee Identities whose friendship she has cherished > > over > > > > nearly half a century. > > > > 28 July 1939 ( death date) Date of obituary ? Paper unknown may be > > > > Wangaratta Chronicle > > > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hi Carmel, yes you did respond earlier, not a problem. Thanks again. Norm. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carmel Hickson" <carmick1@optusnet.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [AVNE] QUIN BROS > Norm, > Not too sure if I've already replied to this as I'm > having computer troubles.In answer to your query re Kathleen ,I haven't come > across her to date but its early days yet and Ill let you know if Icome up > with anything > Cheers > Carmel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Archibald" <normanarch@yahoo.com.au> > To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 11:13 AM > Subject: Re: [AVNE] QUIN BROS > > > > Carmel, did any of your QUIN family marry a Kathleen McGUIRE . > > Norm. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carmel Hickson" <carmick1@optusnet.com.au> > > To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 6:04 PM > > Subject: [AVNE] QUIN BROS > > > > > > > I would like to make contact with any descendents of Johnson, John and > > William Cuffe Quin who came to the Bright and Beechworth areas in the > 1850s > > > Carmel Hickson > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Norm, Not too sure if I've already replied to this as I'm having computer troubles.In answer to your query re Kathleen ,I haven't come across her to date but its early days yet and Ill let you know if Icome up with anything Cheers Carmel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Archibald" <normanarch@yahoo.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [AVNE] QUIN BROS > Carmel, did any of your QUIN family marry a Kathleen McGUIRE . > Norm. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carmel Hickson" <carmick1@optusnet.com.au> > To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 6:04 PM > Subject: [AVNE] QUIN BROS > > > > I would like to make contact with any descendents of Johnson, John and > William Cuffe Quin who came to the Bright and Beechworth areas in the 1850s > > Carmel Hickson > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com >

Hi Carmel, My Grandmother's name was Quin (1 n). Her father was William Thomas Quin married Harriet Mary (Enwright Or Enright). do these names fit in to your tree. We would love to know because mr grandmother would tell nothing of her family. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carmel Hickson" <carmick1@optusnet.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 6:04 PM Subject: [AVNE] QUIN BROS > I would like to make contact with any descendents of Johnson, John and William Cuffe Quin who came to the Bright and Beechworth areas in the 1850s > Carmel Hickson >

Thanks Rae and Beverley I've passed along the emails to Susan in England. Denise ----- Original Message ----- From: "bragge" <bragge@bigpond.com> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [AVNE] Lowerson > There are still Lowerson's living in Myrtleford, > 28 Prince St., Myrtleford. 3737 > > Beverley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Denise McMahon" <helendmc@powerup.com.au> > To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 7:36 AM > Subject: [AVNE] Lowerson > > > > Is anyone on the list researching Lowerson. Myrtleford area I believe > > > > A lady in England has contacted me hoping I can help her > > > > HELP! > > > > Denise > > > > > >

Thank you so much Kathy for the pile of information you have sent me.Don't worry about the photograph as I already have one of him thanks all the same He was my greatgrandfather. Thanks again. Carmel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Myles" <kmyles@alphalink.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [AVNE] Thomas James MURRAY > Carmel > > Here are a few bits that I could find. > > Kathy > > From Mitta Mitta from the Early Pioneer Days by S.A.Colquhoun > > There is a picture of him in this book. If you would like me to scan it > could you contact me directly Kmyles@alphalink.com.au > > p.55 > The State School No.887, Mitta Mitta (formerly known as Snowy Creek) was > opened on the 1st October, 1869, with Mr Thomas J. Murray as head > teacher.Prior to this Mrs. Agnes Rigney conducted a private school on the > site where the Pendergasts now live. It was in this classroom that Mr Murray > commenced as teacher for the Education Department, but the school was later > transferred into a front room of a residence next door which had been built > and occupied by alexander Moncrieff. > > p.56 > Mitta Mitta State School Teachers > Mr Thomas J. Murray was appointed Head Teacher by the Education Department > in 1869 and was assisted with the teaching by his wife. > > p81 > Head Teachers Mitta Mitta State School No.887for the Century 1869-1969. > Thomas J. Murray - 1869-74 > > Old Tallangatta a Town to Remember by Malcolm Ronan > > p.243-245 > MURRAY > Mr. Thomas J. Murray was the first certificated teacher in Tallangatta. He > was born in 1832 in Macroom, Co. Cork, Ireland. At first employed as a > teacher, he was attracted by tales of gold and emigrated to Victoria on the > Great Britain in 1858. He began teaching again in the Kilmore area, and > afterwards in Yackandandah abd Rutherglen, where he joined the diggings for > a couple of years. He married in 1864. He then had charge of the Mitta > school for five years, and then the Tallangatta State school for seven > years, after which a year in Towong school led to an accident and a > government pension in 1880. As headmaster at Tallangatta he was also > postmaster and town clerk. > On the Yabba Road in 1874, he selected a property known as Glendave. In 1893 > he acquired the Victoria Hotel property, leased out Glendave and retired to > live in Tallangatta, where he was active in public movements for nearly 30 > years, and a well known figure about town, if thought a bit rough and > parsimonious. He was a 'droll raconteur', entaining with tales of the past, > such as his efforts travelling through flood and field to reach his > appointed bush school Jericho, only to find that there were two places > called Jericho and he, of course, had reached the wrong one. > His agitations were largely reponsible for getting the butter factory in > Tallangatta, a great fillip to district properity. He was active in the > Cemetery Trust, the Council and the Catholic Church. When he died in 1918 he > left a widow, one son and five daughters, including Mrs Culbertson, Wodonga, > Mrs Moylan, Tallangatta. Mrs Overend of Mitta was another daughter. > (Documentary Sources) > > p.10 > 1870...Tallangatta Rural School No. R82 was established in 1870, under Mr > Thomas J. Murray, who founded the Junction Snowy Creek school before taking > the post at Tallangatta. He lived on his own selection at Tallangatta, later > Glendave. The school-room was of unlined weatherboard with a shingle roof, > propped up with poles. It contained one long desk. > > p.15 > 1875...The First Cemetery > Minutes of a public meeting held at Dyring's Hotel, Tallangatta, 2nd > October, 1875, with George Wilkinson in the chair. > 1. Mr T.J. Murray proposed, Mr G.Moscrop seconded, that truastees for a > cemetery be nominated, "whose names are to be submitted to the government > and whose duties will be to secure a site and arrange any other business > connected with same." - Carried unanimously. > > p.21 > 1881...Mr T.J. Murray retired as head teacher in 1881 and became hotel > licensee and active townsman... Mr T.J. Murray was replaced as head teacher > by Mr J. McCarthy. > > p.29 > 1885...A further quarter-mile brings one to Glendave House, the property of > Mr T.J. Murray. (Brought later by Bowran's then later by Mr E. Ried.) > > p.33 > 1888...A committee of Catholic citizens chaired by T.J. Murray met in the > Court-house in 1888 to take action to secure an allotment for a proper > church building. > > ...Crown Lands lying on the flats below the Shire Hall which had been > surveyed into streets, were auctioned on 19 Sept, 1888...Purchasers > included...T.J. Murray > > p.36 > Other notes on the 1880s... > Mr T.J. Murray of Glendave on the same road was taking a trip to his native > "sod", Ireland, on the R.M.S. Oceana, and would be away for nine months. He > was given a resounding farewell. > > p.52 > Church-building...1898. On Sunday 13 February...The Rev. Fr. O'Connor > publicly thanked Mr T.J. Murray, through whose business capacity the church > site had been obtained for £3 or £8 (illegible). > > p.56-7 > 1897...Four candidates stood formTallangatta: Thomas J. Murray, Charles > Croot, George Wilkinson and William Hawley, the first 3 being elected. > > p.131 > 1927...Glendave House, with 9 rooms, a feature of Yabba Road near Golden > Square since the days of Mr T.J. Murray, and now owned by Mr Ernie Ried, was > burnt to the ground. > > p.141 > 1931...Wm.(Ried) died at Glendave, the property which had once belonged to > his old friend thomas J. Murray, the teacher at the school when W. first > arrived ibn 1880. > > p.171 > 1947...Glendave, the property at Golden Square once owned by Thomas J. > Murray, was farmed by Les Bowran until his death in 1947 at 31...Glendave > was then brought by Ernest Ried. > > Bush Schools and Scholars A History of the One Teacher Schools in the Upper > Murray 1872-1974 by Betty Lebner > > p.8 > Towong State School No. 2380 > ...The official opening of the school took place on 1st June 1881, Thomas J. > Murray was Head Teacher and 20 pupils attended. during early October 1882, > Thomas Murray advised the E.D. by letter that his horse had fallen on him > and he had received crushing injuries. It took 4 days to convey him to > Albury. He enclosed a certificate from Dr James Campbell and Dr duncan, M.B. > and asked if he could be relieved from duties for at least 3 months. > (Note: My grandmother and 3 of her siblings were among those 20 pupils and > in fact I have 3 of her school books that she used at the Towong school). > >

Dear Norman, Not as far as I know ,but to date I have only investigated Johnson Quins's line .Will advise if I come up with anything Carmel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Archibald" <normanarch@yahoo.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [AVNE] QUIN BROS > Carmel, did any of your QUIN family marry a Kathleen McGUIRE . > Norm. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carmel Hickson" <carmick1@optusnet.com.au> > To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 6:04 PM > Subject: [AVNE] QUIN BROS > > > > I would like to make contact with any descendents of Johnson, John and > William Cuffe Quin who came to the Bright and Beechworth areas in the 1850s > > Carmel Hickson > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com >

Carmel, did any of your QUIN family marry a Kathleen McGUIRE . Norm. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carmel Hickson" <carmick1@optusnet.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 6:04 PM Subject: [AVNE] QUIN BROS > I would like to make contact with any descendents of Johnson, John and William Cuffe Quin who came to the Bright and Beechworth areas in the 1850s > Carmel Hickson _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

There are still Lowerson's living in Myrtleford, 28 Prince St., Myrtleford. 3737 Beverley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise McMahon" <helendmc@powerup.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 7:36 AM Subject: [AVNE] Lowerson > Is anyone on the list researching Lowerson. Myrtleford area I believe > > A lady in England has contacted me hoping I can help her > > HELP! > > Denise > >

Is anyone on the list researching Lowerson. Myrtleford area I believe A lady in England has contacted me hoping I can help her HELP! Denise

So this guy in Yackandandah was like our travel agents today who sold prepaid tickets!!! 1. Uncle Joe would buy a ticket out here for his great grandmother etc. or failing that 2. he was the Government agent selling these remittance tickets or failing that 3. he had bought these tickets, and then decided that mother in law wasn't worth bringing out. http://www.theshipslist.com/Forms/assisted1869.html is a good idea of what the people coming out had to think about before deciding. "The Colonies supply ample occupation in various callings, and none but the idle, dissipated, and worthless do-no-good, can fail to prosper, and to become, ere long, contented and happy." think long and hard about that folks!!! I now have a good idea of what was what when my ggmum came out to work in Beechworth at 35 plus board for Mrs. Wigman at the Beechworth Arms for 6 months. D > Hi Denise, > > This showed up in a search at Google for the term "passage warrant" The term > shows up in the para beginning: Nominated or remittance passages. I presume > similar arrangements were in place in Victoria. Hope it helps. >

Thaks Mike. I'll go and have a look and thank you for the postmark. regards Denise ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Skurrie" <mskurrie@bigpond.net.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [AVNE] 18/10/1864 > Hi Denise, > > This showed up in a search at Google for the term "passage warrant" The term > shows up in the para beginning: Nominated or remittance passages. I presume > similar arrangements were in place in Victoria. Hope it helps. > > I mailed your postmark etc on Thursday, so should reach you tomorrow or > Tuesday I hope. > > Mike S > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > -------------- > > http://sites.archivenet.gov.au/Mariners/sks/the_hold/remitanc.html. > > REMITTANCE and other items of interest . . . > minor details would be expected to differ between Colonies/States > > > > > Emigrant or immigrant > Free passages > Assisted passages > Nominated or remittance passages > Indentured immigrants > Full paying passengers > The Bounty system > Source > > > > > Emigrant or immigrant Any person who has obtained a free, assisted or > nominated passage to > > the Colony under the provisions of the Immigration Acts, and includes full > paying passengers > > by any Queensland Government emigrant ship, and any applicant for a passage > under the Acts. > > > Free passages were granted by the Government to particular categories of > immigrants, and > > their families, which were, from time to time, particularly required in > Queensland. These > > categories altered over the years as conditions in Queensland changed but > included at > > various times female domestic servants, and married couples without > children. Applicants > > were required to pay the sum of 1 pound and a similar amount for each member > of the family > > counted as a statute adult. To be eligible, they had to be unable to pay > their own passage, > > they could not have resided previously in any Australian Colony, and they > must intend to > > reside permanently in Queensland. > Assisted passages were granted by the Government to particular categories > of immigrants, > > and their families, which were, from time to time, particularly required in > Queensland. The > > categories include farmers, farm labourers, vine dressers, labourers, > mechanics and domestic > > servants. To be eligible, they had to be unable to pay their own passage, > they could not > > have resided previously in any Australian Colony, and they must intend to > reside permanently > > in Queensland. > Nominated or remittance passages Any natural born or naturalized person > residing in > > Queensland, desiring to provide a passage to the Colony for a friend or > relative in Europe, > > could obtain a passage warrant from the Government on payment of the require > amount. The > > warrant was then forwarded to the friend or relative in Europe. On > presentation of the > > warrant, the Government representative in Europe would then arrange a > passage for the > > emigrant. > Indentured immigrants An employer in Queensland wishing to secure the > service of any > > mechanic, labourer or servant in Europe for employment in Queensland could > authorize the > > representatives of the Queensland Government in Europe to engage such labour > on his behalf. > > The employer paid the Government a sum of money for the passage of the > immigrant and the > > immigrant was bound under contract to work for the employer for a set period > of time when he > > arrived in Queensland. > Full paying passengers are simply those paying the full amount of the > passage money, or > > for whom the full amount was paid by someone else. > The Bounty system established in New South Wales in 1837, involved the > payment of set > > amounts of money or 'bounties' per immigrant to person who arrived and paid > for the passage > > of certain categories or immigrants such as female domentic servants, > shepherds, mechanics, > > agricultural labourers, etc., which were needed in the colonies. The system > was financed > > from the sale of Crown lands. > > Source: Queensland State Archives, Brisbane, 1987, Brief Guide to the use of > Immigration > > Records. For greater detail refer to the Handbook to the Queensland Public > Records > > Historical Resource Kit - Part 1. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Denise McMahon" <helendmc@powerup.com.au> > To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 7:43 PM > Subject: [AVNE] 18/10/1864 > > > This is a small ad in the ovens and Murray Advertiser > > Does anyone know what it means? > > For Sale > Two emigration passage warrants of £8 each. Apply to B Eagleton Yackandandah > > > > > Denise > > >

Second thought (v political I realise, but here goes). Do they expire? Can we get some old ones (at eight quid each) and solve the current debacle of Woomera? ): Mike S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise McMahon" <helendmc@powerup.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 7:43 PM Subject: [AVNE] 18/10/1864 This is a small ad in the ovens and Murray Advertiser Does anyone know what it means? For Sale Two emigration passage warrants of £8 each. Apply to B Eagleton Yackandandah Denise

Hi Denise, This showed up in a search at Google for the term "passage warrant" The term shows up in the para beginning: Nominated or remittance passages. I presume similar arrangements were in place in Victoria. Hope it helps. I mailed your postmark etc on Thursday, so should reach you tomorrow or Tuesday I hope. Mike S ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- http://sites.archivenet.gov.au/Mariners/sks/the_hold/remitanc.html. REMITTANCE and other items of interest . . . minor details would be expected to differ between Colonies/States Emigrant or immigrant Free passages Assisted passages Nominated or remittance passages Indentured immigrants Full paying passengers The Bounty system Source Emigrant or immigrant Any person who has obtained a free, assisted or nominated passage to the Colony under the provisions of the Immigration Acts, and includes full paying passengers by any Queensland Government emigrant ship, and any applicant for a passage under the Acts. Free passages were granted by the Government to particular categories of immigrants, and their families, which were, from time to time, particularly required in Queensland. These categories altered over the years as conditions in Queensland changed but included at various times female domestic servants, and married couples without children. Applicants were required to pay the sum of 1 pound and a similar amount for each member of the family counted as a statute adult. To be eligible, they had to be unable to pay their own passage, they could not have resided previously in any Australian Colony, and they must intend to reside permanently in Queensland. Assisted passages were granted by the Government to particular categories of immigrants, and their families, which were, from time to time, particularly required in Queensland. The categories include farmers, farm labourers, vine dressers, labourers, mechanics and domestic servants. To be eligible, they had to be unable to pay their own passage, they could not have resided previously in any Australian Colony, and they must intend to reside permanently in Queensland. Nominated or remittance passages Any natural born or naturalized person residing in Queensland, desiring to provide a passage to the Colony for a friend or relative in Europe, could obtain a passage warrant from the Government on payment of the require amount. The warrant was then forwarded to the friend or relative in Europe. On presentation of the warrant, the Government representative in Europe would then arrange a passage for the emigrant. Indentured immigrants An employer in Queensland wishing to secure the service of any mechanic, labourer or servant in Europe for employment in Queensland could authorize the representatives of the Queensland Government in Europe to engage such labour on his behalf. The employer paid the Government a sum of money for the passage of the immigrant and the immigrant was bound under contract to work for the employer for a set period of time when he arrived in Queensland. Full paying passengers are simply those paying the full amount of the passage money, or for whom the full amount was paid by someone else. The Bounty system established in New South Wales in 1837, involved the payment of set amounts of money or 'bounties' per immigrant to person who arrived and paid for the passage of certain categories or immigrants such as female domentic servants, shepherds, mechanics, agricultural labourers, etc., which were needed in the colonies. The system was financed from the sale of Crown lands. Source: Queensland State Archives, Brisbane, 1987, Brief Guide to the use of Immigration Records. For greater detail refer to the Handbook to the Queensland Public Records Historical Resource Kit - Part 1. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise McMahon" <helendmc@powerup.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 7:43 PM Subject: [AVNE] 18/10/1864 This is a small ad in the ovens and Murray Advertiser Does anyone know what it means? For Sale Two emigration passage warrants of £8 each. Apply to B Eagleton Yackandandah Denise

This is a small ad in the ovens and Murray Advertiser Does anyone know what it means? For Sale Two emigration passage warrants of £8 each. Apply to B Eagleton Yackandandah Denise

A teacher in the Yackandandah ,Rutherglen, Mitta and Tallangatta areas Died Tallangatta 1918. Any information would be appreciated Carmel Hickson

I would like to make contact with any descendents of Johnson, John and William Cuffe Quin who came to the Bright and Beechworth areas in the 1850s Carmel Hickson

Well Anne, I'm going to get a wine and study this. After one wine Imay have an answer - he he. This is huge. Bigger than Ben H. Finding this extremely intriguing, so I'm off for the wine. D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Hollingshead" <hollies@melbpc.org.au> To: <AUS-VIC-NE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [AVNE] Jane Thornton > Hi Denise, > > The plot thickens > > Q. Did she die by spearing. ? > > A. This seems highly unlikely. I have contacted three experts in > aboriginal/white contacts at this time and they feel it would have been > acknowledged in the history of the time. It would have been so unusual for a > woman to have been killed at this time. > > Q. Have you checked the O and M, the Constitution, the Albury/Belvoir > papers etc? > > A. No papers surviving from this period 1852/53 > > > > > No such death onCd's and from memory nothing on the INquests. No, nothing > > just checked under Glover and Thornton > > A. No I checked NSW too > > > > Q. Were they married in the first place? > > A. Yes > > Marriage Certificate > January 23rd 1848 at St Thomas Church Liverpool > Names Charles Thornton Jane Glover > Age Full Full > Con Bachelor Spinster > Occ Labourer > Add Liverpool Liverpool > Father George Thornton James Glover > His Occ Farmer Farmer > Witness John Blackstock Mary Glover > > Q.. Who was the child in arms? There is no child born to a Jane Thornton > > pre1864 on the Cd's. > > If the Jane Thornton was indeed carrying a child who was in fact Mary > Jane, > > how did she end up back in Wooragee and where did Jane go? > > A. It may have been a second child and not baptised/registered > > > I still think she was speared, because unless there was a cover up story > for > > friends family and Mary Jane, why would it be reported in her Obit as > > spearing. > > A. I thought she may have died in child birth and this was the explanation > given to her at the time and it was never corrected. > Now I think the same reason but she may have been deserted.Another thing > about the facts in the obituary > > The Manchester left London on 14.9.1848 and arrived in Melbourne on > 13.1.1849 . > She was born 18 Apr 1849 Melbourne, VIC., AUS. > and christened 9 Apr 1849 St James, Melbourne, VIC., AUS. > So she was not born on the ship which is what she had always said. > > Also:- > > I think Charles worked in Melbourne on arriving > > In the deposit list for the ship it said that Charles was given 3 months > work by R.P. Merv** (couldn't read the last 2 letters) > I looked in the 1847 directory to see if that person was listed and found P. > Mervin a wholesale dealer and thought that might have been him but I have > just found a R.P. Mervan who lived in Lonsdale St so perhaps it was him. > > Maybe he didn't get to Wooragee until 1855/56 > > I found this in the Unclaimed Letter Office Records > Jan - Jun 1852 letter to Charles Thornton, Staughton, River Exe (this is > likely to be Staughton Vale on the Werribee River about 50 miles west of > Melbourne) > Could be him ??? > Another in the same period to to Charles Thornton Melbourne. Could be to him > at a previous address > Unfortunately the letters no longer exist just the details in a book. > > His second marriage to Emma Jane Withey was at St Paul's Cathedral, > Melbourne,25 January 1855 both residents of Benalla > She was said to be a spinster but was actually a widow if her first husband > had really drowned. She had 2 children Elizabeth and George. George seems to > have been with them in Beechworth at the time of the land claim. > Also first child Edwin was born in Benalla in 1855 Do not have a date for > this He seems to have been in > Beechworth by 1856 from newspaper reports. (Did you have one from 1855 ?) > The rest of the children born in > Wooragee (Catherine 1858 - apparently the later ones are also likely to have > been born in Wooragee and not Beechworth because they started listing the > registration place not the birth place. > > Well how about all this. Sounds more like a novel than genealogy. > > Anne > > > >

Hi Denise, The plot thickens Q. Did she die by spearing. ? A. This seems highly unlikely. I have contacted three experts in aboriginal/white contacts at this time and they feel it would have been acknowledged in the history of the time. It would have been so unusual for a woman to have been killed at this time. Q. Have you checked the O and M, the Constitution, the Albury/Belvoir papers etc? A. No papers surviving from this period 1852/53 > > No such death onCd's and from memory nothing on the INquests. No, nothing > just checked under Glover and Thornton A. No I checked NSW too > Q. Were they married in the first place? A. Yes Marriage Certificate January 23rd 1848 at St Thomas Church Liverpool Names Charles Thornton Jane Glover Age Full Full Con Bachelor Spinster Occ Labourer Add Liverpool Liverpool Father George Thornton James Glover His Occ Farmer Farmer Witness John Blackstock Mary Glover Q.. Who was the child in arms? There is no child born to a Jane Thornton > pre1864 on the Cd's. > If the Jane Thornton was indeed carrying a child who was in fact Mary Jane, > how did she end up back in Wooragee and where did Jane go? A. It may have been a second child and not baptised/registered > I still think she was speared, because unless there was a cover up story for > friends family and Mary Jane, why would it be reported in her Obit as > spearing. A. I thought she may have died in child birth and this was the explanation given to her at the time and it was never corrected. Now I think the same reason but she may have been deserted.Another thing about the facts in the obituary The Manchester left London on 14.9.1848 and arrived in Melbourne on 13.1.1849 . She was born 18 Apr 1849 Melbourne, VIC., AUS. and christened 9 Apr 1849 St James, Melbourne, VIC., AUS. So she was not born on the ship which is what she had always said. Also:- I think Charles worked in Melbourne on arriving In the deposit list for the ship it said that Charles was given 3 months work by R.P. Merv** (couldn't read the last 2 letters) I looked in the 1847 directory to see if that person was listed and found P. Mervin a wholesale dealer and thought that might have been him but I have just found a R.P. Mervan who lived in Lonsdale St so perhaps it was him. Maybe he didn't get to Wooragee until 1855/56 I found this in the Unclaimed Letter Office Records Jan - Jun 1852 letter to Charles Thornton, Staughton, River Exe (this is likely to be Staughton Vale on the Werribee River about 50 miles west of Melbourne) Could be him ??? Another in the same period to to Charles Thornton Melbourne. Could be to him at a previous address Unfortunately the letters no longer exist just the details in a book. His second marriage to Emma Jane Withey was at St Paul's Cathedral, Melbourne,25 January 1855 both residents of Benalla She was said to be a spinster but was actually a widow if her first husband had really drowned. She had 2 children Elizabeth and George. George seems to have been with them in Beechworth at the time of the land claim. Also first child Edwin was born in Benalla in 1855 Do not have a date for this He seems to have been in Beechworth by 1856 from newspaper reports. (Did you have one from 1855 ?) The rest of the children born in Wooragee (Catherine 1858 - apparently the later ones are also likely to have been born in Wooragee and not Beechworth because they started listing the registration place not the birth place. Well how about all this. Sounds more like a novel than genealogy. Anne

Carmel Here are a few bits that I could find. Kathy From Mitta Mitta from the Early Pioneer Days by S.A.Colquhoun There is a picture of him in this book. If you would like me to scan it could you contact me directly Kmyles@alphalink.com.au p.55 The State School No.887, Mitta Mitta (formerly known as Snowy Creek) was opened on the 1st October, 1869, with Mr Thomas J. Murray as head teacher.Prior to this Mrs. Agnes Rigney conducted a private school on the site where the Pendergasts now live. It was in this classroom that Mr Murray commenced as teacher for the Education Department, but the school was later transferred into a front room of a residence next door which had been built and occupied by alexander Moncrieff. p.56 Mitta Mitta State School Teachers Mr Thomas J. Murray was appointed Head Teacher by the Education Department in 1869 and was assisted with the teaching by his wife. p81 Head Teachers Mitta Mitta State School No.887for the Century 1869-1969. Thomas J. Murray - 1869-74 Old Tallangatta a Town to Remember by Malcolm Ronan p.243-245 MURRAY Mr. Thomas J. Murray was the first certificated teacher in Tallangatta. He was born in 1832 in Macroom, Co. Cork, Ireland. At first employed as a teacher, he was attracted by tales of gold and emigrated to Victoria on the Great Britain in 1858. He began teaching again in the Kilmore area, and afterwards in Yackandandah abd Rutherglen, where he joined the diggings for a couple of years. He married in 1864. He then had charge of the Mitta school for five years, and then the Tallangatta State school for seven years, after which a year in Towong school led to an accident and a government pension in 1880. As headmaster at Tallangatta he was also postmaster and town clerk. On the Yabba Road in 1874, he selected a property known as Glendave. In 1893 he acquired the Victoria Hotel property, leased out Glendave and retired to live in Tallangatta, where he was active in public movements for nearly 30 years, and a well known figure about town, if thought a bit rough and parsimonious. He was a 'droll raconteur', entaining with tales of the past, such as his efforts travelling through flood and field to reach his appointed bush school Jericho, only to find that there were two places called Jericho and he, of course, had reached the wrong one. His agitations were largely reponsible for getting the butter factory in Tallangatta, a great fillip to district properity. He was active in the Cemetery Trust, the Council and the Catholic Church. When he died in 1918 he left a widow, one son and five daughters, including Mrs Culbertson, Wodonga, Mrs Moylan, Tallangatta. Mrs Overend of Mitta was another daughter. (Documentary Sources) p.10 1870...Tallangatta Rural School No. R82 was established in 1870, under Mr Thomas J. Murray, who founded the Junction Snowy Creek school before taking the post at Tallangatta. He lived on his own selection at Tallangatta, later Glendave. The school-room was of unlined weatherboard with a shingle roof, propped up with poles. It contained one long desk. p.15 1875...The First Cemetery Minutes of a public meeting held at Dyring's Hotel, Tallangatta, 2nd October, 1875, with George Wilkinson in the chair. 1. Mr T.J. Murray proposed, Mr G.Moscrop seconded, that truastees for a cemetery be nominated, "whose names are to be submitted to the government and whose duties will be to secure a site and arrange any other business connected with same." - Carried unanimously. p.21 1881...Mr T.J. Murray retired as head teacher in 1881 and became hotel licensee and active townsman... Mr T.J. Murray was replaced as head teacher by Mr J. McCarthy. p.29 1885...A further quarter-mile brings one to Glendave House, the property of Mr T.J. Murray. (Brought later by Bowran's then later by Mr E. Ried.) p.33 1888...A committee of Catholic citizens chaired by T.J. Murray met in the Court-house in 1888 to take action to secure an allotment for a proper church building. ...Crown Lands lying on the flats below the Shire Hall which had been surveyed into streets, were auctioned on 19 Sept, 1888...Purchasers included...T.J. Murray p.36 Other notes on the 1880s... Mr T.J. Murray of Glendave on the same road was taking a trip to his native "sod", Ireland, on the R.M.S. Oceana, and would be away for nine months. He was given a resounding farewell. p.52 Church-building...1898. On Sunday 13 February...The Rev. Fr. O'Connor publicly thanked Mr T.J. Murray, through whose business capacity the church site had been obtained for £3 or £8 (illegible). p.56-7 1897...Four candidates stood formTallangatta: Thomas J. Murray, Charles Croot, George Wilkinson and William Hawley, the first 3 being elected. p.131 1927...Glendave House, with 9 rooms, a feature of Yabba Road near Golden Square since the days of Mr T.J. Murray, and now owned by Mr Ernie Ried, was burnt to the ground. p.141 1931...Wm.(Ried) died at Glendave, the property which had once belonged to his old friend thomas J. Murray, the teacher at the school when W. first arrived ibn 1880. p.171 1947...Glendave, the property at Golden Square once owned by Thomas J. Murray, was farmed by Les Bowran until his death in 1947 at 31...Glendave was then brought by Ernest Ried. Bush Schools and Scholars A History of the One Teacher Schools in the Upper Murray 1872-1974 by Betty Lebner p.8 Towong State School No. 2380 ...The official opening of the school took place on 1st June 1881, Thomas J. Murray was Head Teacher and 20 pupils attended. during early October 1882, Thomas Murray advised the E.D. by letter that his horse had fallen on him and he had received crushing injuries. It took 4 days to convey him to Albury. He enclosed a certificate from Dr James Campbell and Dr duncan, M.B. and asked if he could be relieved from duties for at least 3 months. (Note: My grandmother and 3 of her siblings were among those 20 pupils and in fact I have 3 of her school books that she used at the Towong school).