An 1840 assisted passage may also be listed on the NSW state records - a key name search http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/keyname_search_2187.asp will show them up from 1839-1851 - gives ship and reel references etc - something a lot of the libraries then have available on microfilm, some with the ability to save the actual documents to a USB or email them. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Webb" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: RE: Ballaarat Look up > Not sure of dates but lots of the shipping records are on line too at PRO > Vic, search records... it can be a bit difficult to find I have to > admit. > > Dawn > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Susie Zada > Sent: Monday, 21 July 2008 6:53 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Ballaarat Look up > > Hi Chris, > > I'm not sure why you specifically asked for a lookup at PRO in Ballarat - > are you aware that the assisted immigrants (and unassisted) are available > all over Australia on fiche - I would be very surprised if they were not > available at your State Library in Adelaide, larger genie centres and many > university libraries. > > Hope this helps ......... Susie Z > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Ward" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 6:16 PM > Subject: Ballaarat Look up >> I'm wondering if there is SKS who could do a look up for me at the PROV >> branch in Ballaarat. It is for the details of two 1840 assisted British >> immigrants. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 3284 (20080721) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1565 - Release Date: 21/07/2008 > 6:36 PM > > >

Not sure of dates but lots of the shipping records are on line too at PRO Vic, search records... it can be a bit difficult to find I have to admit. Dawn -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Susie Zada Sent: Monday, 21 July 2008 6:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Ballaarat Look up Hi Chris, I'm not sure why you specifically asked for a lookup at PRO in Ballarat - are you aware that the assisted immigrants (and unassisted) are available all over Australia on fiche - I would be very surprised if they were not available at your State Library in Adelaide, larger genie centres and many university libraries. Hope this helps ......... Susie Z ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Ward" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Ballaarat Look up > I'm wondering if there is SKS who could do a look up for me at the PROV > branch in Ballaarat. It is for the details of two 1840 assisted British > immigrants. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ NOD32 3284 (20080721) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com

A lot of people do put a temporary cross on a grave, while it is new, with the plaque from the undertaker on it, though unfortunately I have found they tend to fall over and get lost or deteriorate so badly we have to remove them before a headstone is put on. Most of the new graves at Teesdale seem to be headstone only, few people now put the big elaborate headstones, perhaps because of the cost. Though I suppose it is different in the city, matters seem to be different in small country cemeteries. We do our best to keep the cemetery neat, while looking after the native grassland which surround the graves. And then of course, there is the history which is so important to preserve, and we are not offered funding to look after the old historic graves all country cemeteries have. Dianne Hughes

Hi Chris, I'm not sure why you specifically asked for a lookup at PRO in Ballarat - are you aware that the assisted immigrants (and unassisted) are available all over Australia on fiche - I would be very surprised if they were not available at your State Library in Adelaide, larger genie centres and many university libraries. Hope this helps ......... Susie Z ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Ward" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Ballaarat Look up > I'm wondering if there is SKS who could do a look up for me at the PROV > branch in Ballaarat. It is for the details of two 1840 assisted British > immigrants.

Hi, thankyou for pointing out the use of the wooden cross as a temporary marker - I wasn't quite aware of this use while the ground settled .. what I was actually referring to was those that have stood in cemeteries for 20 30 40 years or more - not temporary monuments .. cheers Robert Maurie O'Connor wrote: > I can understand the use of the "poignant handmade homemade timber > crosses" but I don't think money, or lack of it, has much to do with > it. Think it has/had more to do with the recommended time lapse > between burial and erection of a headstone to enable settlement to > take place. > > Of course, this would only apply in some cemeteries now. Many use > blue metal dust, rather than backfill, which negates the waiting period. > > Barbara > > > >

I'm wondering if there is SKS who could do a look up for me at the PROV branch in Ballaarat. It is for the details of two 1840 assisted British immigrants. I have the details to provide off list to anyone who can help. I stress I don't want anyone to make a special trip on my behalf but someone who is going in the next week or so and can spend an extra few minutes for my query would be really appreciated. TIA Regards, Chris in Adelaide

I can understand the use of the "poignant handmade homemade timber crosses" but I don't think money, or lack of it, has much to do with it. Think it has/had more to do with the recommended time lapse between burial and erection of a headstone to enable settlement to take place. Of course, this would only apply in some cemeteries now. Many use blue metal dust, rather than backfill, which negates the waiting period. Barbara

Hmm, I would imagine if we had a look at the relevant legistalion there are probably laws requiring approval from trusts or controlling bodies before anything may be constructed or erected in a cemetery. I also imagine that some of the heritage commisssions and historical societies would have a few words to say on the subject. I also believe there should be some standards applied - I know the poignant handmade homemade timber crosses are all that some can manage for possibly the recently deceased - but if anybody is thinking of commemorating a long deceased ancestor - perhaps somebody deceased in the 19th century - then I would like to see all the descendants or maybe just some of the wealthier interested descendants combining their resources and at least ensuring that any marker is of substance - a cast plaque atleast - something that will endure for the historians following us in say a hundred years or so.. btw - the FerntreeGully cemetery has a number of small memorial plaques commemorating some of the pioneers of the district - in many cases the original families were probably not wealthy enough to erect anything other than timber markers - now long gone thanks to weather and fire - and general decay that will get most of us in the end ... my extended family got together a few years ago to pay for the partial restoration of my grt.grt.grandfathers headstone in the old Ballarat cemetery - the marble had broken in half - we had it stuck back together and mounted almost flat on a concrete plinth - now nobody can push it over and break it - and the lettering is as readable as the day it was made .. it certainly is only fair that the cemetery trusts get some recognition - a little cash may be used for all sorts of things - blades for the mower, a new rake, some roundup - general maintenance - rarely do you see a neglected country cemetery in Victoria - a credit to the men and women that look after them - I should add - on a sunny day - a good cemetery is so peaceful - a nice place to be when you're alive - unless you're on business...... take care - please continue to respect and look after our cemeteries Dianne and Bill Hughes wrote: > I think it is courtesy to talk to the Cemetery Trust before you do > anything in their cemetery. In Victoria you are supposed to contact the > local Cemetery Trust, I have a feeling it is in the rules from the > Government that you need to contact them before you erect anything, be a > headstone cross or anything else. We charge $50, because being a small > cemetery we don't have much income, every little bit helps, most trusts > would ask for a small amount of money for you to mark a grave, some may > ask for a donation. > Dianne Hughes > Secretary Teesdale Cemetery Trust > > -

I think it is courtesy to talk to the Cemetery Trust before you do anything in their cemetery. In Victoria you are supposed to contact the local Cemetery Trust, I have a feeling it is in the rules from the Government that you need to contact them before you erect anything, be a headstone cross or anything else. We charge $50, because being a small cemetery we don't have much income, every little bit helps, most trusts would ask for a small amount of money for you to mark a grave, some may ask for a donation. Dianne Hughes Secretary Teesdale Cemetery Trust

I would say that it could simply be the going rate.  The Plaque for my stepmother, suitable for a lawn cemetery at a country cemetery 4 years ago cost nearly $900 and it wasn't anything fancy. However I remember that the Cemetery had a set size of plaque that everyone had to use, that may have been due to availability or for astethic reasons I don't know. I think that we may sometimes forget that grave markers cannot be mass produced with a one size fits all.  (or rather they can possibly to a point - you could for example buy a marble cross that is already made but then all the details must then be carved on it to persoanlise it.) So a simple metal plaque must either be cast into an individual mould or possibly the blank plaque is cast and then somehow the required letters are etched into the the metal. Either way it means that one or more workers are involved in the process and this automatically ups the price. Don't forget that in regional areas they may not have anyone local to do the job either - not enough demand. So add shipping costs in as well. Tia ----- Original Message ---- From: juliemhopper <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, 19 July, 2008 5:06:33 PM Subject: lost gravesites Greetings listers, After reading Chris Warren's message about the loss of early cemetery records, I thought I would ask for some general comments. It must be quite common for someone to know which cemetery a relative is buried in, but not to know the exact gravesite because early grave markers have been lost or destroyed in the actual cemetery. Since many early markers were wooden, this is unfortunately inevitable. Added to that is the loss of early cemetery records from fire or some other cause. So if both the site and the record are lost, it can be almost impossible to know exactly where a person is buried. So I'm wondering - if someone wanted to put up some kind of marker, say a cross or a plaque, stating that it preserves the memory of the named people who are known to be buried here but the exact site is unknown, can this be done? Surely in small cemeteries or old cemeteries it should not be too difficult. I can't believe that every cemetery trust would quote $600 or more, as Barbara found with Eaglehawk. Or maybe I'm naïve, and that is in fact the going rate for such a thing? Julie H. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au

Hi Angelica According to family information William Francis Gambetta died in 1957 in South Australia. He was my great Uncle. His wife Winifred Elizabeth Fuller died in 1988. He was born 11/8/1897 at Eaglehawk. His mother was Mary Martha Butterfield. She married Peter Edward Gambetta March 19, 1895 at Bendigo. Peter died Feb 11, 1919 during theInfluenza epidemic. Her mother's 2nd married name was Walters. Regards Jane

Julie Carngham cemetery have put in a very large rock for that exact purpose I believe, to be able to mark the cemetery and have a memorial even though you are not sure exactly where the grave is. This particular cemetery has had markers moved, records burnt etc and I know the secretery is trying to piece them all together. I know I found a headstone in a different cemetery with a memorial to their two daughters buried at Carngham cemetery, when I passed this on the cemetery did not have them on record. Also there does not seem to be any records for the old Smythes Creek cemetery but working on a large project for Smythesdale we seem to digging up a number who well be burried at Smythes Creek. We are looking into it all, and not physically digging up bodies. Carmel -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of juliemhopper Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 12:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: lost gravesites and records Greetings listers, After reading Chris Warren's message about the loss of early cemetery records, I thought I would ask for some general comments. It must be quite common for someone to know which cemetery a relative is buried in, but not to know the exact gravesite because early grave markers have been lost or destroyed in the actual cemetery. Since many early markers were wooden, this is unfortunately inevitable. Added to that is the loss of early cemetery records from fire or some other cause. So if both the site and the record are lost, it can be almost impossible to know exactly where a person is buried. So I'm wondering - if someone wanted to put up some kind of marker, say a cross or a plaque, stating that it preserves the memory of the named people who are known to be buried here but the exact site is unknown, can this be done? Surely in small cemeteries or old cemeteries it should not be too difficult. I can't believe that every cemetery trust would quote $600 or more, as Barbara found with Eaglehawk. Or maybe I'm naïve, and that is in fact the going rate for such a thing? Julie H. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings listers, After reading Chris Warren's message about the loss of early cemetery records, I thought I would ask for some general comments. It must be quite common for someone to know which cemetery a relative is buried in, but not to know the exact gravesite because early grave markers have been lost or destroyed in the actual cemetery. Since many early markers were wooden, this is unfortunately inevitable. Added to that is the loss of early cemetery records from fire or some other cause. So if both the site and the record are lost, it can be almost impossible to know exactly where a person is buried. So I'm wondering - if someone wanted to put up some kind of marker, say a cross or a plaque, stating that it preserves the memory of the named people who are known to be buried here but the exact site is unknown, can this be done? Surely in small cemeteries or old cemeteries it should not be too difficult. I can't believe that every cemetery trust would quote $600 or more, as Barbara found with Eaglehawk. Or maybe I'm naïve, and that is in fact the going rate for such a thing? Julie H.

Pat wrote: Hello List, I have just been reading the death certificate for my Great/Grandfather SOPER Edwin/Edward, who died in April 1877, aged 42 years. On the death certificate, it states he died at New Chum, (near Bendigo), and buried at Sandhurst cemetery. But I have checked the online cemteries for the Bendigo area, and have had no luck in finding him. My question is, would there be any other cemetery around sandhurst that is not online under the Bendigo Trust, that he may be in. Or any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, on what I can do to find him. Or would someone have a cd disk for the cemteries in this area. Thank you Pat Hello Pat, Edward Soper aged 42 was buried on Thursday 12 April 1877 Reg Number 6519 in what is now the Bendigo Cemetery. It was formerly known as the Back Creek or Sandhurst Cemetery. Remember Bendigo was Sandhurst at that time. We can confirm this but to find out if he has a headstone or the burial site you would need to contact the Bendigo Cemeteries Trust who you will find most helpful. Hope this helps ? Tom and Libby.

Hi, it appears that a William Francis GAMBETTA was born in 1897 - at Eaglehawk - father was Peter GAMBETTA and mother was Mary WALTERS. reg.index:10590 - however perhaps the Walters name was actually Butterfield? hope this helps cheers Robert Angelica Matthews wrote: > William Francis GAMBETTA, married Winifred Elizabeth FULLER, 1926 > He was supposedly born in Bendigo, and I am hoping that I can get a birth year for William, and any info on his Parents, or children born to this marriage. > Also his wife's mother Mary Ann (Polly) Dines, her father was Charles (Chas) Dines, I do not know who her mother was or any other info, besides that Mary Ann married Howard Frederick Fuller in 1900, Bendigo and that they had 3 children, Winifred, Mary and Howard (this Howard, died age 25yrs in WWII). Winifred died in about 1988 in SA and I believe that there is still family based there. I have no death for William Francis Gambetta. > kind regards, angelica > >

William Francis GAMBETTA, married Winifred Elizabeth FULLER, 1926 He was supposedly born in Bendigo, and I am hoping that I can get a birth year for William, and any info on his Parents, or children born to this marriage. Also his wife's mother Mary Ann (Polly) Dines, her father was Charles (Chas) Dines, I do not know who her mother was or any other info, besides that Mary Ann married Howard Frederick Fuller in 1900, Bendigo and that they had 3 children, Winifred, Mary and Howard (this Howard, died age 25yrs in WWII). Winifred died in about 1988 in SA and I believe that there is still family based there. I have no death for William Francis Gambetta. kind regards, angelica

Greetings listers, After reading Chris Warren's message about the loss of early cemetery records, I thought I would ask for some general comments. It must be quite common for someone to know which cemetery a relative is buried in, but not to know the exact gravesite because early grave markers have been lost or destroyed in the actual cemetery. Since many early markers were wooden, this is unfortunately inevitable. Added to that is the loss of early cemetery records from fire or some other cause. So if both the site and the record are lost, it can be almost impossible to know exactly where a person is buried. So I'm wondering - if someone wanted to put up some kind of marker, say a cross or a plaque, stating that it preserves the memory of the named people who are known to be buried here but the exact site is unknown, can this be done? Surely in small cemeteries or old cemeteries it should not be too difficult. I can't believe that every cemetery trust would quote $600 or more, as Barbara found with Eaglehawk. Or maybe I'm naïve, and that is in fact the going rate for such a thing? Julie H.

Putting a simple wooden cross in place might depend on the cemetery regulations. Some won't allow it, and you have to go for a more permanent memorial. I discovered that my g-g-grandparents were buried in an unmarked grave at Eaglehawk Cemetery. Bendigo Cemetery Trust charge in excess of $600 for a simple brass plate and its concrete footing. They are still buried in an unmarked grave. Regards Barbara

Thank you to everyone that took the time to answer my message on SOPER Edward/Edwin, I have written to the Bendigo Cemetery Trust, and hopefully I will recieve a answer, in the not to long future. I will also ring them in about a week. All your advise and and suggestions, where much appreciated. Regards Pat

The crematorium keep a record of the ashes and would say they were picked up by a family member. I know many people who bury them in their own gardens etc. Carmel > It is possible for someone to be cremated and have the ashes placed in > another cemetery. I will soon be doing just that with my Mum's ashes from > Palmdale Crematorium near Gosford NSW being placed in Orange NSW where my > father was buried.There is a gap of a few hundred km between Palmdale and > Orange. > David >