Dear List, I have just found in the Goldfields archives an account of a woman and her 2 young daughters who were sent to Ballarat Gaol in 1865. The daughters were aged 9 and 3. The 9 old was my gt grandmother and the woman accused was my gg grandmother Metta Dickman nee Stemmer. The account appears in the Creswick and Clunes Advertiser of 1865 and for completeness, I will post a transcript of it at the end of my posting. Metta (who is called Stemma Dickman in the newspaper) was widowed at the end of 1862 (her husband died of TB). Both were of German descent. My questions are 1. Is there another source that I could gain more information from ie ? Police Gazettes and would I need the 1865 or 1866 Gazette? 2. Does anyone know of any records that may exist of prisoners in Ballarat Gaol? 3. Does anyone know of a record or written history of the conditions in Ballarat Gaol at that time? The story seems to end happily enough. The very next year in 1866 Metta remarries and then lives to the ripe old age of 94, still in Clunes. The family line continues and here am I now discovering all of this drama :) Seasons greetings too all of the wonderful folk on the Goldfields list, Maree in Adelaide ps I would very much like to thank Sue O'Neill who transcribed this record to the list way back in 1999. >From the Creswick & Clunes Advertiser 31 July 1865 Before the Clunes Police Court (C T Sutherland, Esq., Mayor, and C.J. Harvey, Esq., JP), 28 July 1865 "A WHOLESALE SHOP-LIFTER, Stemma Dickman, a widow woman, native of Germany, was brought up charged with no less than six cases of petty larceny. Mr Jessup appeared for the accused. The first case gone into was that of stealing from the shop door of Mr Moffatt, draper of Fraser street, on the 27th instant, one cloth paletot, his property. It aapeared from the evidence of Mr Donaldson, a draper, whose shop is situated at a short distance from that of the prosecutor, that whilst standing at his own door on the day in question, he observed the prisoner standing in front of the prosecutor's shop apparently examining some of the goods exposed for sale; his attention was diverted a few moments, but on looking again in the same direction he saw the prisoner in the act of thrusting something under her shawl, when she hastily left the spot. Suspecting something was wrong, he went and communicated his suspicions to Mr Moffatt's shopman, who at once gave information to the police, when Constable Sheahan proceeded to the prisoner's house where, upon her bed, hediscovered the missing jacket, with the trade ticket attached, which bore the private mark of the prosecutor, and which he identified. In prosecuting the search the constable discovered a great number of other articles the supposed proceeds of similiar robberies, including six pairs of new boots. Amongst the property referred to, was a shawl, identified be Mr E Noble as the one stolen from the front of his shop about two months since, and which formed the second chaarge against the prisoner. A rug also stolen from the shop door of Mr Hotchin, draper, Fraser street, on Tuesday evening last, was amongst the articles found in her possession. Mr Hotchin appeared and identified the rug which bore his private mark, and which he deposed had been stolen by some person from the front of his shop. Mr Jessup suggested that the three cases already gone into were sufficient to satisfy the ends of justice. The prisoner, he sad was a hard working woman, and had hitherto borne and irrrproachable (sic) character. He then called Mr J.C.Weickhardt, who is one of the members of the Borough Council, and also Mr Hyman, stationer, both of whom gave the prisoner a good character during her six years residence on Clunes, where she had followed the occupation of char woman, having two young children to provide for. The prisoner had no defence to offer. The Bench sentenced her to one month's imprisonment for the first offence, two months for the second, and three months for the third. The prisoner was then removed, and the Court adjourned." Consequently this followed >From the Creswick & Clunes Advertiser 11 August 1865 Before the Clunes Police Court (P Mark, Esq, JP) on August 10th 1865 "Elena Dickman and Mary Dickman, two children, aged respectively nine and three years, were brought up, charged with having no lawful means of support. The police stated that the children belonged to a woman recently sent, by this bench, to gaol for six months, on the charges of larceny, and they (the police) now prayed that the children might be committed, until the expiration of the mothers sentence. Committed accordingly, to Ballarat gaol for four months."

Racheal Have you bought the certificate? Maybe they did not go into Kyneton too often then remmebered they needed to register the baby. There could be a number of reasons. You could try the local historical society for information also Public Record office. Carmel -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rachel Heaton Sent: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 8:18 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Blue Mountain Goldfield My G-Great grandmother, Catherine Wilsons was born on the "Blue Mountain Goldfield near Kyneton now Trentham" Dec 10th 1863. Her birth was registered on Sept 17th 1864 in Kyneton. I am new to family history research. I was just hoping that someone would have an idea on how I would get more information on the Blue Mountain Goldfield. And if anyone knows if it was common to have such a delay in registering the birth - if that was commonplace? Thankyou Rachel Heaton -- MOB: 0420 508 581 EMAIL: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My G-Great grandmother, Catherine Wilsons was born on the "Blue Mountain Goldfield near Kyneton now Trentham" Dec 10th 1863. Her birth was registered on Sept 17th 1864 in Kyneton. I am new to family history research. I was just hoping that someone would have an idea on how I would get more information on the Blue Mountain Goldfield. And if anyone knows if it was common to have such a delay in registering the birth - if that was commonplace? Thankyou Rachel Heaton -- MOB: 0420 508 581 EMAIL: [email protected]

Hi List, My name is Kerry Hall from Queensland, Australia I have been hunting now for several years a Mary Ann Barnes WARD, and hoping someone with records I do not have or better at sleuthing than I may be able to help. (Or there may even be another descendant on this list) Mary Ann Barnes WARD turns up in Bunninyong, Victoria in 1854 (aged about 23-25)where she married Nathaniel GRIFFITH'S (an ex convict who was sent to Tasmania for 14 years aged 18 in 1832 arrived in 1833)they had 7 known children. Mary Ann died 15 Aug 1919 at Tumbarumba, NSW aged 90 (church records have her age as 92) so her year of birth is approx 1827-1829 her father is listed as Thomas WARD labourer, she was born in London, England and had lived in Australia for 60+ years. Mary Ann's marriage cert has her parents as William Barns WARD (Captain, seaman) and her mother Mary Ann Barns WARD. Mary Ann is my major brick wall, my gut feeling is that she too may have been a convict however cannot find a record for her she may have simply been listed as Mary Ann WARD? I have cc to other mailing lists in the hope I can have a break through with her so my apologies if you receive this more than once. Any advice or help gratefully received regards Kerry

Victoria now has a 100 year rule on births, so you can not get a birth certificate for a person born after 1908, unless it is your own of course, deaths are available before 1998, now I'm not sure about marriages. I know the Edwardian and the Great War indexes were removed from sale because of the births. It is all because most Australian states are party to privacy legislation, I think identity fraud also comes into it somewhere, but I'm not sure where. It has nothing to do with family historians. As for the release of CDs, I know the War Dead has just been released and hopefully the Early Church Records and the Cemetery Data perhaps in the next couple of years. Dianne Hughes

Yes most states do have the 100 year rule with births. Here in Australia, unlike in England, our birth certificates are used as Proof Of Identy (POI). In England if you take a look at a certificate it specifically states that it is NOT to be used as proof of identity. When the government here brought in the 100 points system of identity, they also tightened up the access to BDMs and the privacy legislation. We found it very interesting having to apply for my husband's birth certificate in Victoria from interstate. Tia ________________________________ From: Dianne and Bill Hughes <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 14 December, 2008 8:00:40 PM Subject: Look up please Victoria now has a 100 year rule on births, so you can not get a birth certificate for a person born after 1908, unless it is your own of course, deaths are available before 1998, now I'm not sure about marriages. I know the Edwardian and the Great War indexes were removed from sale because of the births.  It is all because most Australian states are party to privacy legislation, I think identity fraud also comes into it somewhere, but I'm not sure where. It has nothing to do with family historians. As for the release of CDs, I know the War Dead has just been released and hopefully the Early Church Records and the Cemetery Data perhaps in the next couple of years. Dianne Hughes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline

hmm.. I had a look at the national archives document - some observations: for almost the entire document - Clayton is referred to as Vincent CLAYTON - not Vincent Theodore CLAYTON - Clayton even signs as Vincnt CLAYTON - no Theodore. In May 1921 - an Eva CLAYTON in South Australia receives one of Vincent's medals - I imagine that Eva is Vincent's mother?? ... his wife was Mary Clayton nee Brennan. On the marriage application made by Vincent in England it is indicatred that Vincent's father is an Alfred CLAYTON, retired publican, and that Vincent has Theodore as a second given name - I wonder whether these were both inventions of a young man hoping to impress his young bride? I also note that on enlistment Vincent indicates that his next of kin is his cousin Miss E Robson, 27 Somerset Street North Richmond (a melbourne suburb) and also in the archives is a letter apparently from Vincent's mother - a Mrs. Clayton - enquiring after her son Vincent - and her address is given as 27 Somerset Street North Richmond. So does the SA death certificate contain the name of Vincent's mother? Is is Eva? ROBSON or some other name? I would consider looking in the SA indexes for Vincent's birth - and possibly not under Clayton but perhaps under the mother's maiden name? I'd be trying to work out the connection between Robson and Clayton.. something good may come of it? good luck robert in Melbourne maree white wrote: > Hello again list, > > This one is tricky, I am looking for a publican named Alfred CLAYTON who > supposedly had a child named Vincent Theodore Clayton c 1893 near > Geelong. Trouble is , this Vincent Theordore Clayton doesn't appear on > the Vic indicies - nor anything even closely related to him. Vincent > Theordore died in SA in 1920 with TB. I have his death certificate. > > The info we have re Vincent Theordore Clayton comes from his WW1 record > at the national archives Australia and also his marriage record in > England in 1819 whilst serving withe the AIF. > > I am wondering if : > 1. Could there be unregisterd birthes in or about Geelong in the mid 1890s? > 2. How would I go about finding info about his father, Alfred Clayton, > the supposed publican? I see that PROV has some early licencing liquour > records but I think they are too early for my man. > > Any help greatly apprecicated. > > Regards, > > Maree in Adelaide > > > > >

The main reason for the lengthy wait for new indexes is because of Identity Fraud. I believe it is now a 100 year rule for births and marriages not quite so long but this one is for privacy reasons as people live longer. Carmel

Hi Maree An unregistered birth is indeed a possibility. I know a person born in Victoria in the early 1950s - her birth and that of her brother were not registered. She found out when she needed it for her driving licence. What a hassle she had then! And there is anecdotal evidence too - of say a baptismal record with no matching birth record. Many, many of them. No idea why - perhaps parents either did not bother, thought they had, did not read so did not know the requirements, or thought the church would do it. OR - they are registered under a different name like my grandfather. He was registered as Thomas KIRBY, son of Elizabeth nee BURROWS and Thomas Kirby who married two years before. Well, I only found him by putting mother elizabeth and child Thomas and nothing else into he se3arch engine. He thought he was Alfred Thomas HUNTER, eldest child of Elizabeth nee BURROWS and William Daniel Hunter - who married when Tom was aged 2, as bachelor and spinster. I can vaguely remember being told I was a lucky child to have a birth certificate as my grandfather never had one and had to use his baptismal cert! I presume he was "done" at the same time as the first child, Rosina, of the union. And then there is the possibility he was born say NSW and came to Victoria as a baby - he may have genuinely thought he was born here but in fact wasn't. Or the birth was register at somewhere like Albury but in fact he lived in Victoria - not sure if it was allowed but maybe Mum went to a sister of something living on the other side of the river.. Keep looking for clues - you may find him one day. Look for church records and see what may come up with, too. All the best Dawn (Melbourne) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of maree white Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2008 10:46 PM Cc: [email protected] Subject: Publican query - Clayton Hello again list, This one is tricky, I am looking for a publican named Alfred CLAYTON who supposedly had a child named Vincent Theodore Clayton c 1893 near Geelong. Trouble is , this Vincent Theordore Clayton doesn't appear on the Vic indicies - nor anything even closely related to him. Vincent Theordore died in SA in 1920 with TB. I have his death certificate. The info we have re Vincent Theordore Clayton comes from his WW1 record at the national archives Australia and also his marriage record in England in 1819 whilst serving withe the AIF. I am wondering if : 1. Could there be unregisterd birthes in or about Geelong in the mid 1890s? 2. How would I go about finding info about his father, Alfred Clayton, the supposed publican? I see that PROV has some early licencing liquour records but I think they are too early for my man. Any help greatly apprecicated. Regards, Maree in Adelaide ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ NOD32 3688 (20081212) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com

Hello again list, This one is tricky, I am looking for a publican named Alfred CLAYTON who supposedly had a child named Vincent Theodore Clayton c 1893 near Geelong. Trouble is , this Vincent Theordore Clayton doesn't appear on the Vic indicies - nor anything even closely related to him. Vincent Theordore died in SA in 1920 with TB. I have his death certificate. The info we have re Vincent Theordore Clayton comes from his WW1 record at the national archives Australia and also his marriage record in England in 1819 whilst serving withe the AIF. I am wondering if : 1. Could there be unregisterd birthes in or about Geelong in the mid 1890s? 2. How would I go about finding info about his father, Alfred Clayton, the supposed publican? I see that PROV has some early licencing liquour records but I think they are too early for my man. Any help greatly apprecicated. Regards, Maree in Adelaide

Possibly Rochester Lyn -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of maree white Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2008 8:14 PM Cc: [email protected] Subject: ROCH placename query Hi List, Can anyone help me with the abreviation ROCH in Victoria? Regards, Maree > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Rochester most likely. maree white wrote: > Hi List, > > Can anyone help me with the abreviation ROCH in Victoria? > > Regards, > > Maree > > >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: 12/12/2008 6:59 PM > >

Hi List, Can anyone help me with the abreviation ROCH in Victoria? Regards, Maree > > >

Rochester near Echuca Doreen Qld

HI List, I am totally CONFUSED on this one. How can people be jeopardising the release of additional death indexes by copying a few index references???. They are only indexes, not full certificates. Are you trying to tell me that if I purchase death certificates I am not allowed to share this information including reference numbers with others on this or other lists? Sorry, but I WILL continue to share any information I have that I feel will assist another person to research their family and hopefully create shortcuts for them, as others have done for me. Regards Lois -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Graham Lewis Sent: Friday, 12 December 2008 7:23 AM To: 'Chris Ward' Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: Look - up please I think Peter's remarks have no realistic basis. The licence provisions are surely aimed at preventing republication of large slabs of information from the indexes rather than preventing the sort of help provided on this and other mailing lists. As for the possibility that no future CDs will be seen until 2085, and linking that to mailing list transgressions, that seems to me a pedantic position, if not a hysterical one. Any delays are surely more to do with the States trying to reach a uniform set of release rules. One might have hoped that other States would have gone as far as Victoria in releasing data, but it seems that Victoria has agreed to be held back by the others. Interestingly, for the last couple of years it seemed that NZ was going to tighten up considerably, but a massive campaign by genies has recently seen that largely overturned. Cheers Graham Lewis Sydney -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Ward Sent: Thursday, 11 December 2008 9:09 PM Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: Look - up please Could the list administrator throw some light on this issue, please? Regards, Chris -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Peter Skeehan Sent: Thursday, 11 December 2008 7:17 PM To: maree white Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Look - up please My authority is as a longtime researcher who is concerned about people who breach the License agreement and jeopardise the release of the next release of the index to deaths, which thanks to your (and others) publication of index numbers (and others) willapparently will now be 2085. Peter Skeehan Melbourne - Australia ________________________________ From: maree white <[email protected]> To: Peter Skeehan <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 10 December, 2008 11:12:18 PM Subject: Re: Look - up please Peter, In addition, perhaps you would be kind enough to give me your authority on the goldfields mailing list to be making such a request? Maree Peter Skeehan wrote: > Maree Please do not post registration numbers on the list. It is against ther terms and conditions of your license for the index. Direct your reply to the enquirer instead. Publishing the registration numbers on open lists is jeopardising the next release of the death index. Also, the numbers can be obtained from the Registry of Births, Deaths & Marriages website. > > *Peter Skeehan* > > *Melbourne - Australia* > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > **

I totally agree with you Lois, it is a whole lot of garbage he was talking. Doreen Qld.

Didn't get to Debra. Your email bounced. If you want a scan of the page then get in touch with me. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Harris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:30 PM Subject: Re: William LAVENDER - Kyneton > Sent to Debra privately. > > Carolyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Debra Andreassen" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:33 AM > Subject: William LAVENDER - Kyneton > > >> Good morning, >> Several years back there were some postings regarding William >> LAVENDER's obit from the "History of Kyneton" Vol 1. I am researching >> the Lavenders and wondered if anyone has access to this book and could >> kindly pass on a transcript of that obituary? He was a magistrate in >> 1856 and died in Fitzroy in 1870. I'm in London, England so >> unfortunately not able to put my hands on a copy. >> Any assistance would be surely appreciated. >> Kind regards >> Debra Andreassen >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Sent to Debra privately. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debra Andreassen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:33 AM Subject: William LAVENDER - Kyneton > Good morning, > Several years back there were some postings regarding William > LAVENDER's obit from the "History of Kyneton" Vol 1. I am researching > the Lavenders and wondered if anyone has access to this book and could > kindly pass on a transcript of that obituary? He was a magistrate in > 1856 and died in Fitzroy in 1870. I'm in London, England so > unfortunately not able to put my hands on a copy. > Any assistance would be surely appreciated. > Kind regards > Debra Andreassen > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Mary. More names and info for the file. At this rate I should know all there is to know about the BURRIS & SPRUHANs in Victoria!!! Thanks again Gary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, 11 December 2008 7:20 PM To: Gary Bond Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: Victorian Cemeteries Gary, The details of Warrnambool burials from the Cemeteries of South West Victoria CD for the two surnames are as follows: Seq# Name                 (* Click Camera for Photo) * Date of Birth Date of Death Age Additional Comments 6211 BURRIS, Annie Abt. 1895 17-Apr-85 90 Wife of William (6210) 10014 BURRIS, Catherine Abt. 1861 24-Jun-44 83 Wife of Patrick (10013); mthr of Patrick (10012) 4799 BURRIS, Frederick John Abt. 1901 2-Feb-53 52 Hus of Marjorie (4800); fthr of Helen 10801 BURRIS, James Abt. 1875 14-Jul-66 91 Hus of Magdaline (10800) 10800 BURRIS, Magdaline Abt. 1870 6-Aug-27 57 Wife of James (10801) 4800 BURRIS, Marjorie Abt. 1905 14-Jun-95 90 Wife of Frederick (4799); mthr of Helen 10013 BURRIS, Patrick Abt. 1859 13-Sep-42 83 Hus of Catherine (10014); fthr of Patrick (10012) 10012 BURRIS, Patrick Jnr. Abt. 1905 23-Jul-34 29 Son of Patrick (10013) & Catherine (10014) 8723 SPRUHAN, Ellen Abt. 1786 20 Feb 1881 95 Regards Mary ---- Gary Bond <[email protected]> wrote: ============= Hi Listers Can somebody steer me to where I can find details of two burials in Warrnambool Cemetery in 1904 & 1910. I am trying to establish the religion of my rellies Edward BURRIS & Annie SPRUHAN both born in Kilkenny Ireland and both buried in this cemetery Regards Gary in Sydney ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mary Thanks for the information. I am starting to accumulate a number of different BURRIS & SPRUHANs and all I need is to connect the dots and who knows how many extra branches my tree will have. Thanks again for your time Regards Gary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, 11 December 2008 7:09 PM To: Gary Bond Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: Victorian Cemeteries Hi Gary, The Warrnambool Pioneers Register has two BURRIS - Anne (Annie) 1894-1985 & Margaret Mary (1883-1967) listed. Margaret married Peter Michael DELANEY who's religion is listed as Roman Catholic and Anne was Ann WILLIAMS and married to a William BURRIS (1889-1955) she also was listed as Roman Catholic. The only SPRUHAN is Catherine (c. 1816-unkown) who married Michael JACKMAN (1806 Kilkenny, Ireland -1875). Catherine & Michael were married according to the rights of the Presbyterian church but all their children were baptised as Roman Catholics. It would seem that both surnames have Roman Catholic affiliations in Warrnambool area. If you were to get copies of their death certificates it would confirm the burial details. Regards Mary ---- Gary Bond <[email protected]> wrote: ============= Hi Listers Can somebody steer me to where I can find details of two burials in Warrnambool Cemetery in 1904 & 1910. I am trying to establish the religion of my rellies Edward BURRIS & Annie SPRUHAN both born in Kilkenny Ireland and both buried in this cemetery. Regards Gary in Sydney ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message