Are there any listers who visit the Bairnsdale cemetery who could check out the details of the grave of Cyril Jackson Stafford. He died in 1902 aged 72 and is buried in the monumental section, Church of England, grave number 1783. (southern side of Centre road between Banksia and Acacia Streets) I would really like to know the exact date of his death and any other details on his grave. Coral Dow Canberra

Listers may be interested in the following fishermen who gave evidence to the 1892 Fisheries Inquiry. In some cases the evidence provides details such as how long they had been fishing on the lakes and where they came from before fishing in Gippsland Lakes. William Bott (Dutson) William White (Lake Wellington) William Carstairs, Thomas Jamieson, Alfred Westersen, John White, John Carstairs, John Markoe, William Moore, Richard Cross, Edward Lambert, Thomas Hansen, Nicholas Gaultic, Robert Allen, George Bize, Ivor Hansen, John Mc Mahon (all gave evidence at Cunninghame, but some may have fished at Metung) Charles Lindemann, James Smith, Athelstone Metcalfe, Richard Poole (all Metung) Thomas Mentiplay, Thomas Murray, John Ray, Robert Reynolds, Robert Dinse, John Anderson, James Alexander, William Jerran, Richard Greinke, James Henderson, Christopher Foulkes, Duncan Alexander, Harry Wakham, David Duffy, Michael Melville, Julius Fleischer, Carl Jansen, Martin Rossovech, Jens Neilsen (all Paynesville) William Page (an agent for fishermen since 1878 Cunninghame) Alfred Palmer (Bairnsdale) William Sparrow (Cunninghame)

Forwarded to the list as it went originally to the subscription address! I am glad to see that even though it wasn't originally a Gippsland topic (you get better results from this sort of query on AUSTRALIA-L, and it does less to listowner blood pressure), thank you to Cyrus for turning it into a Gippsland topic. Linda Barraclough Briagolong List Owner: AUS-VIC-GIPPSLAND email: kapana@netspace.net.au http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~surreal/AVG/ ============================================================ Dear Gary, > >Also, are UK census records available locally? You didn't give your location, but the LDS Church in Traralgon has the 1881 census on microfiche,and some parts of the 1851 census ; and the Mid-Gippsland Family History Society has the 1881 cenus on CD-Rom. It is worthwhile checking the locality in the LDS Library catalogue, which is available at local LDS libraries and on the Internet. Often census records from other years are available on film and can be ordered in to the Local LDS Library > >Finally, are early electoral rolls available on microfiche or > >internet, or only at La Trobe Library? I would imagine that many early Victorian Electoral Rolls are available throughout Gippsland through municipal libraries, LDS Libraries and Family history groups- for instance, the La Trobe Shire Library in Morwell has the 1856, 1898, 1903, 1908, 1912 electoral rolls and the Mid-Gippsland Family History Society the 1903, 1908, 1949 rolls. Cyrus

>From this can I assume that unless you were naturalised, you didn't (or shouldn't) own property in Victoria. One of my family history indicated this, but not the other. Both not British. Are there any other bits of regulations/rules which could be helpful for the newcomers? Denise Marriott McMahon in Brisbane, Queensland, Beautiful one day, Perfect the Next, - Australia Searching MARRIOTT England: CRAWFORD United States/Ireland/Scotland: HALL England: SANGOR England: SIMMONDS England: HAEFFNER Germany Random Act of Kindness Volunteer - cemeteries in a radius of 100km of Brisbane. helendmc@powerup.com.au ---------- > From: Gwen O'Callaghan <gwenoc@netspace.net.au> > To: AUS-VIC-GIPPSLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-VIC-GIPPSLAND-L] Deserters > Date: Monday, 2 August 1999 13:33 > > Dear Heather > > >How did this effect citizenship (assuming that > >documents of ID may not been available)? > > This was only likely to become an issue if the deserter was born outside > Britain and needed to become naturalised so as to be eligible to own > property in the state of Victoria. It was just a matter of getting a job > and not drawing attention to yourself! You'd be unlucky to be caught, I > would think. In the1800s only male property owners were able to vote, there > was no social security system or IDs. > > >Is there a list of deserters? > > Lists were published in newspapers, government gazettes and police > gazettes. I have come across occasional lists in municipal libraries, > probably compiled from these sources. > > Who was your deserter who ended up at Macks Creek? > > Gwen > > > > > ********************************************************* > Gwen O'Callaghan/The Irish Link > PO Box 242, Yarram 3971, Victoria, Australia > Email gwenoc@netspace.net.au > > ********************************************************* > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GIPPSLAND Mailing List ==== > Remember - the more details you give for your families, such as first names, dates and places, the more likely it is that you will catch someone's eye and receive a response. >

Dear Heather >How did this effect citizenship (assuming that >documents of ID may not been available)? This was only likely to become an issue if the deserter was born outside Britain and needed to become naturalised so as to be eligible to own property in the state of Victoria. It was just a matter of getting a job and not drawing attention to yourself! You'd be unlucky to be caught, I would think. In the1800s only male property owners were able to vote, there was no social security system or IDs. >Is there a list of deserters? Lists were published in newspapers, government gazettes and police gazettes. I have come across occasional lists in municipal libraries, probably compiled from these sources. Who was your deserter who ended up at Macks Creek? Gwen ********************************************************* Gwen O'Callaghan/The Irish Link PO Box 242, Yarram 3971, Victoria, Australia Email gwenoc@netspace.net.au *********************************************************

Fellow Listers, I realise that this is not a peculiarly "Gippsland" query, but it's general to all research, so hope will be acceptable. I noticed mention of the 1861 Victorian Census recently. What form does this record take? Presumably it does not include tha same detail as early UK census returns, which list the names of all members of the household, age, place of birth etc? Could someone tell me in what years the Victorian census was taken, what detail is provided and where it can be accessed please? Also, are UK census records available locally? Finally, are early electoral rolls available on microfiche or internet, or only at La Trobe Library? Would be very grateful for any information. Gary Matthews (gmatthews@hazpower.com)

Thanks very much Ann, that's a big help. Cheers, -- Anne Wheel Western Australia eMail - annew@q-net.net.au ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > To Anne Wheel, > > Try the Mother Superior at St Mary's Convent in Sale. She was able to assist > me recently. > > regards, > > Ann Burnell

To Anne Wheel, Try the Mother Superior at St Mary's Convent in Sale. She was able to assist me recently. regards, Ann Burnell

Hi all I have a Birth entry dated 1879 which shows the child's parents (my ggg/parents) as Thomas TWOMEY and Elizabeth TWOMEY (nee FLANAGAN) with existing children Thomas (5yo) and Maurice (3.5yo), and they were married in Sale on 4th October 187? - unfortunately I can't read the last number, but can guess that it was maybe 1871, 1872, 1873, 1874?? The 4th October part is very clear. My problem is that the Marriage entry doesn't seem to be in the Vic. Pioneer Index, and so I was wondering if anyone has access to the RC Church Records in Sale, or maybe an address that I can write to? Any help with this would be much appreciated. Cheers, -- Anne Wheel Western Australia eMail - annew@q-net.net.au ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have asked about this before and did not receive any response. Maybe someone new to the list might know an answer. The family story is that my great grand father jumped ship in Port Phillip bay near Melbourne and came to live there prior to moving as a selection to Macks Creek near Yarram. I would like to learn more about what happened when people "deserted" ship and what records are kept. How did this effect citizenship (assuming that documents of ID may not been available)? Is there a list of deserters? What were people who jumped ship called? Any help would be appreciated. Heather

Hi List, Have just been writing this up for AUS-HIST-WOMEN, a rootsweb mailing list that is just beginning and looks like it will be great. So I thought I would send it to the Gippy list as well, given that they are Gippslanders. If you are interested in joining the list, you can subscribe to it by sending an e-mail to either AUS-HIST-WOMEN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for the digest) or AUS-HIST-WOMEN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for the list) that contains nothing in the subject line and only the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. The SNELL family of Gippsland Giants Clara Snell was born in Foster, South Gippsland, in 1872, and her sister Anna was born in 1879 at Bunyip in West Gippsland. These women, the children of "normal-sized" parents, who were first cousins, grew to an enormous size, and toured the world with their brother, Tom, born 1877, as the Australian Giant Family. Clara was billed as the World's Largest Woman, and her occupation on her passport was "Giantess". By the age of 15 years Clara was 29 stone and 5 pounds. Apparently at her peak she weighted 39 stone. There were a number of other children in the family who were also apparently of "normal" size. The three first began touring as children (Anna is nine in one photograph) at the instigation of their father, and they appeared in at least England, America, South Africa, India and France. Photographs of them, which were sold as souvenirs, show them in tartan costumes (in the time of Queen Victoria's "Scottish period"). Tom, who was large, but not unusually so, resented the touring, and as soon as he turned 21 left the act, only touring for one last time so the family could leave a hotel in which they had become established in West Gippsland. But the thing that interests me is that the sisters chose to continue touring in their own right as adults, and apparently enjoyed being "exhibited". They were musical and moved easily and lightly around the stage, were noted as brilliant conversationalists, and saw this life as giving them a measure of independence. Clara died in 1914, Anna in 1930 and Tom in 1949. All are buried in the Bunyip Cemetery in West Gippsland. Tom's son Jim remembers as a child, his elderly "retired giant" father telling of how, as a child in Buffalo Bill's Show, where they performed, that Chief Sitting Bull was the "best of the lot". There were no pockets in the little giant's costume, and he kept losing the tips people gave him to sneak them back stage to meet Sitting Bull. Sitting Bull made sure they were given back to him! Jim wrote a more detailed account of their lives in Gippsland Heritage Journal No.22 (Sept 1997) If anyone comes across any newspaper accounts of the Gippsland/Australian Giant Family appearing in their area, I would dearly love to know about it so that we can fill in details of their tours. Cheers Linda Barraclough Briagolong List Owner: AUS-VIC-GIPPSLAND email: kapana@netspace.net.au http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~surreal/AVG/

My ancestors, the CHAPPLE family and the MUNSER family travelled from the goldfields of Victoria to Toongabbie c1974....they were brother and sister and their spouses with two young children. Would anyone have any idea why on earth these young people would have decided to make this move? All left family behind on the goldfields. Dianne Vickers Christchurch, NZ

> the population was 539,000 at the census of 1861 published in 1862 as census of Victoria -1861- Population tables victorian government printer 1862. BTW my source lists the censuses of 1836, 1838 and 1841 as being on a card index of names on the census returns at the PROV does anybody know anything of this card index?

> the Ameican civil war began with the shelling of Fort Sumter in Charleston > Harbour S.C. on the morning of April 12th 1861.

Hi Bernie. Thanks for you very prompt and informative responce. The names of the families I am researching in that area are: Hill, McGrath & Carty - at this stage. The period is 1870 to 1910. Do know the area physically? I note in the Vic Roads Country Directory ther is a Sunny creek Road just to the west of Trafalgar on the Princes Highway and goes nearly up to Thorpdale. Again, thanks a million. John Hill dyehill@net-tech.com.au

G'day, It states in the book A Valley of Glens that Henry MAXFIELD senior " greatest source of pride was an acquaintance with Henry LAWSON." As they were journalists I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they knew each other but despite the fact that I have looked through numerous library books. I have been unable to find any other reference to this acquaintanceship. I will be very pleased to hear if anyone on this list have seen or heard an article or ref. where these two great men were mentioned in the same breath. Thanks in advance John in Hobart

Hi Linda and other listers A few dates to consider 20 Aug 1860 Burke and Wills expedition left Melbourne for the Gulf of Carpentaria. 28 Aug 1860 A riot occurred and Parliament House Melbourne was attacked and stoned by irate citizens during a debate on the controversial land bill. 02 Sep 1861 The first bridge across the Murray River, at Albury, was officially opened. 18 Sep 1860 The Nicholson Land Act was passed by the Victorian parliament providing for free land selection after survey. 26 Nov 1860 Richard Heales assumed office of Premier. 13 Apr 1861 The outbreak of hostilities was precipitated by the fall of the Federal garrison at Fort Sumter in South Carolina. The civil war had begun. 24 May 1861 Australia's first public Museum of Art was opened in Melbourne public library by the Governor Sir Henry Barkly. 15 Sep 1861 Alfred Howitt's expedition found John King, sole survivor of the Burke and Wills party that reached the Gulf of Carpentaria. 07 Nov 1861 Four thousand spectators were at Flemington racecourse to see seventeen horses (not to mention the jockeys) contest the first Melbourne cup. 14 Nov 1861 John O'Shanassy assumed office of Premier. In this day and age when the rail network is being privatised, it is interesting to note that the network was in fact set up by private enterprise in the first place, and there was a lot of activity in this direction in 1860 and 61. Apart for the rail link to Gippsland which we are already familiar with, the rail helped to open up the rest of the suburbs. 03 Sep 1860 Geelong and Melbourne Railway Co. was bought by Government. 24 Sep 1860 Melbourne and Suburban Railway Co.'s. Line was extend from Richmond to Pic-Nic (near Burnley) 01 Nov 1860 Melbourne and Essendon Railway Co.'s. line was opened. 22 Dec 1860 Melbourne and Suburban Railway Co.'s. line was extended from Cremorne (near River Yarra) to Windsor. 28 Feb 1861 Branch railway from Newmarket to Flemington racecourse was opened by Melbourne and Essendon Railway Co. 13 Apr 1861 Railway line was extended from Pic-Nic to Hawthorn by Melbourne and Suburban Railway Co. 08 Jul 1861 Government railway was extend from Sunbury to Woodend. 21 Dec 1861 Railway line was extended from North Brighton to Brighton Beach by St. Kilda and Brighton Railway Co. Regards Brian

Sunny Creek situated South east of Yarragon, between Yarragon and Trafalgar is now only an area rather than a township or village. At one time there was a church, which later was moved to Darnum in 1933. The Sunny Creek School was orignally called the Yarragon East school, its number was 2903 and opened in 1888, with a Helen Nicholas as the Head Teacher. This building is now housed at the Moe Folk Museum, and fitted out with many of the original desks and furnishings. (This info. from the book "From the Dawning" published in 1978. There was a Sunny Creek Creamery, which was run by the Trafalgar Butter and Cheese Factory. What names were you chasing??? Regards, Bernie G.

On reading the list I notice there is some reading of old newspapers going on!! If anyone is reading the Gippsland papers at the moment could you please keep a lookout for the name NIND. Charles Henry and his stepbrother started the Warragul Guardian (this info I have) however any gossipy tit-bits on the Nind families would be most welcome. Also, any info on the CUE family of Maffra would be most welcome. I can't seem to find any info on them at all except for their deaths and the fact that two of the girls married the NIND's and the third girl married James RYAN (Maffra newspapers). Any info on the Ryans would be welcome also. Hope I haven't asked for too much in one hit Hilary Franklin, Kilcoy, Qld

>... I rang telstra to try and get a number >for the Museum and there isnt one listed. Can someone help me with some >contact information for Port Albert Maritime Museum please? >Regards, >Julie Simpson We hope to have a Telstra connection for phone and fax by October. In the meantime, you can write to the Museum c/- PO Box 242, Yarram Vic 3971. The Museum, on the corner of Bay Street and Tarraville Road, Port Albert, is open daily 10.30-4.00 September to May; weekends, public holidays and school holidays 10.30-4.00 June to August. Brochures will be forwarded if postal address is provided. Regards John O'Callaghan ********************************************************* Gwen O'Callaghan/The Irish Link PO Box 242, Yarram 3971, Victoria, Australia Email gwenoc@netspace.net.au *********************************************************