I am totally confused...and confusing i guess also.... Got the pro victoria - assisted british immigration. found family tremayne. much of the family is listed twice. now i am sure there were not two cuthberts or mary's etc. index to registers of assisted british immigrants 1839-1871 12 results found for tremayne. first two entries are for cutbert then cuthbert. same ship, same book, but different pages. next two are for james who was 20, then 18. again same book but different pages. next is john, who is 13 twice. next is mary, 40, then mary 21 (she is the daughter) then mary 40 again, then mary ann who is 22 (same daughter?) then william who is 15, then again he is 16. same book, diff. pages. as far as i can ascertain....cuthbert tremayne married mary morrish. they came to oz with their grown up children. mary married edward evans. had a tribe of kids. to someone who is brainier than i am, why are they listed twice. are they really not the same people. i doubt it, but you never know. is there any way i can find out what occupation cuthbert was. e.g. shipping record somewhere or the 1841 census of england. they came from cornwall. anyone who can offer advice is most welcome. robyn shaw. toowoomba. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ainslee Hooper" <arhooper@iprimus.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 11:22 AM Subject: [GEELONG] john evans passed away late november > Hi all, > i was wondering if anyoone might have a copy of the geelong advertiser from last weekend or the weekend before. One of my great uncles John Evans passed away. In my gedcom file i can't find a John Evans so was hoping that the death notice might give more of an indication of who the person may be. I have 12 siblings in that family, some with James as the first name and John as the second name. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Ainslee > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > List Administrator of Aus-german-l & hooper-ons-l > www.ainsleehooper.com > GOONS #3895 Hooper, worldwide. > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > Geelong & District Churches : > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdchur.htm >

Hello Robyn, This answer was offered a year ago to a similar enquiry on AVNE group, I think. So I repeat it here: As one who worked on the transcribing of those shipping lists, I will try to answer your question " I have a passenger in the index listed twice on 2 different fiche / pagesfor the same voyage and wondered why. " I will presume that you are right, and these two entries are of the same person, and not another person with the same name..... Firstly, the passenger lists varied from one single sheet with one single passenger, to ten or twenty five pages with hundreds of passengers, and these large lists quite likely could extend over the end and beginning of two microfiche. Some lists had a couple of pages on blue stock, the rest on white. These blue pages often included EXTRA or CONFLICTING information on some of the passengers listed in the white pages ( maybe spelling, maybe age, maybe other information), a sort of duplication of part of the listing on the white pages. So the information on both the blue and white pages had to be included, even if it was an exact duplication, as they had been filmed for the microfiche and were part of the list. And especially so if the information varied in any way. A further complication was that sometimes the blue pages were filmed as pages one, two, etc and sometimes they were filmed after the last page of the full (white) list. The page numbering on the index shows the order in which the sheets were FILMED and appear on the microfiche. With viewing, it can be seen that the blue pages have a slight "greying" of the background. Sometimes the last pages list particular passengers for specific reasons: They may have died, been born, fallen overboard and lost at sea. Sometimes a passenger has committed a crime. Sometimes they are found to be lunatics, or blind, and the immigration officer considers they may become a charge on the state. Stowaways are also listed on the last page. Shipwrecked crew members picked up or transferred from a sinking wreck appear on the last page. Members of the shipping company travelling on company business are often on the last page (or, on a separate "company" sheet used as a last-filmed page). And on the "Assisted (or Bounty) Immigrants" listings, the last pages include girls who have sexually misbehaved (and occasionally a whole "depraved" family) or an unaccompanied widow with children.....all of whom were judged to not be elligible for their free passage, and their costs would be charged to the "importer", who expected to receive his deferred "Bounty" payment for commissioning the shipload of workers. Such persons were not even allowed to use the immigation barracks, but were thrown on their own resources. Is that a help to you (and to those looking over our shoulders}? The passenger index was meant to send enquirers direct to the microfiched passenger lists, where they can get the port their forebears left, the date they left, length of time the voyage took, the Captain & surgeon's name, can look over it to see if there are any families that their forebears married into, or who remained friends, or travelled with them in Victoria to set up their new life. To see if they are listed as ill on the voyage, if the ship was a healthy ship, if it was placed in quarantine, etc. And the day of arrival sends you to newspaper shipping columns, to see if the shipping reporter wrote up the voyage, if the Captain went to court because he starved the passengers, if the Doctor is charged with incompetence, if the grateful passengers placed a memorial in the paper thanking the Captain for his stewardship, etc. Even the weather on arrival day can add colour to the arrival. And then to the Police Gazettes, to see if their luggage was stolen off the wharf before they could start their new life! Isn't family history detective work fun!!! Regards, Ada At 08:34 13-12-03 +1000, you wrote: >I am totally confused...and confusing i guess also.... > >Got the pro victoria - assisted british immigration. >found family tremayne. >much of the family is listed twice. >now i am sure there were not two cuthberts or mary's etc. > >index to registers of assisted british immigrants 1839-1871 >12 results found for tremayne. >first two entries are for cutbert then cuthbert. same ship, same book, but >different pages. > >next two are for james who was 20, then 18. again same book but different >pages. > >next is john, who is 13 twice. > >next is mary, 40, then mary 21 (she is the daughter) then mary 40 again, >then mary ann who is 22 (same daughter?) > >then william who is 15, then again he is 16. same book, diff. pages. > >as far as i can ascertain....cuthbert tremayne married mary morrish. they >came to oz with their grown up children. >mary married edward evans. had a tribe of kids. > >to someone who is brainier than i am, why are they listed twice. are they >really not the same people. i doubt it, but you never know. is there any >way i can find out what occupation cuthbert was. e.g. shipping record >somewhere or the 1841 census of england. they came from cornwall. > >anyone who can offer advice is most welcome. >robyn shaw. toowoomba. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ainslee Hooper" <arhooper@iprimus.com.au> >To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 11:22 AM >Subject: [GEELONG] john evans passed away late november > > > > Hi all, > > i was wondering if anyoone might have a copy of the geelong advertiser >from last weekend or the weekend before. One of my great uncles John Evans >passed away. In my gedcom file i can't find a John Evans so was hoping that >the death notice might give more of an indication of who the person may be. >I have 12 siblings in that family, some with James as the first name and >John as the second name. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Ainslee > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- > > List Administrator of Aus-german-l & hooper-ons-l > > www.ainsleehooper.com > > GOONS #3895 Hooper, worldwide. > > > > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > > Geelong & District Churches : > > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdchur.htm > > > > > >==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== >Geelong and District web site : >http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/ regards, Ada Ackerly, Melbourne, Australia formerly Ackerly DocuSearch

well, for your info, and many thanks....and for the others who are now looking over MY shoulder....why i asked, you ask??? i mean how much space can i use up?? edward evans was convicted of larceny. stealing as a servant. (a bullock, a sheep?? no idea.) he was in pentonville prison. learned rug and mat making. came here on the exile ship anna maria. exile as in, you repent, do your time or a shortened version of it, and never go home again. e.g. exiled here - sorry ada, this is for others, not you of course.....of course...grovel, crawl... mary tremayne on the other hand, left cornwall with mum and dad and brothers. had her child just as ship berthed in melbourne. it was supposed to be edward's child, but not sure if while he was in the hulk awaiting his free trip here, they 'got together' somehow, or she was just pregnant to someone else....we will never know. anyway the child was born and christened mary tremayne evans...a technical error, they were not married at the time. it died a few days later. about 6 months later edward and mary married. had a tribe of kids. 'their' first child was never mentioned on any siblings certificates, seems it was buried in melbourne and that was that. i still think her mother never forgot her. maybe others did. edward was supposed to be a soldier and porter. came from woolwich. there was a barracks there as i understand. maybe he pinched a few guns?? why i asked about the double entries is because one family member claims that another mary evans was the one who had the child. now if there was only one mary on board, it cannot be. i did find the deaths on board, and there was a child, but not mary's. it died later. so really it was just to clarify, if indeed, there could have been two mary tremayne's on the lysanda on that voyage with mum and dad, or should i say two mums and dads. thank you for the explanation. those captains were not always a good lot. some took all the pots and pans and starved their charges. i am really amazed that any of our rellies survived to get here in one piece. you are a treasure honest. i will keep your valuable info in mind for the next shipment...robyndehood (shaw) t'ba. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ada Ackerly" <aackers@alphalink.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [GEELONG] dumbo lister....sorry! > Hello Robyn, > > This answer was offered a year ago to a similar enquiry on AVNE group, I > think. So I repeat it here: > > As one who worked on the transcribing of those shipping lists, I will try > to answer your question > " I have a passenger in the index listed twice on 2 different fiche / > pagesfor the same voyage and wondered why. " > > I will presume that you are right, and these two entries are of the same > person, and not another person with the same name..... > > Firstly, the passenger lists varied from one single sheet with one single > passenger, to ten or twenty five pages with hundreds of passengers, and > these large lists quite likely could extend over the end and beginning of > two microfiche. > > Some lists had a couple of pages on blue stock, the rest on white. > > These blue pages often included EXTRA or CONFLICTING information on some of > the passengers listed in the white pages ( maybe spelling, maybe age, maybe > other information), a sort of duplication of part of the listing on the > white pages. So the information on both the blue and white pages had to be > included, even if it was an exact duplication, as they had been filmed for > the microfiche and were part of the list. And especially so if the > information varied in any way. > > A further complication was that sometimes the blue pages were filmed as > pages one, two, etc and sometimes they were filmed after the last page of > the full (white) list. The page numbering on the index shows the order in > which the sheets were FILMED and appear on the microfiche. With viewing, it > can be seen that the blue pages have a slight "greying" of the background. > > Sometimes the last pages list particular passengers for specific reasons: > > They may have died, been born, fallen overboard and lost at sea. Sometimes > a passenger has committed a crime. Sometimes they are found to be lunatics, > or blind, and the immigration officer considers they may become a charge on > the state. > > Stowaways are also listed on the last page. Shipwrecked crew members picked > up or transferred from a sinking wreck appear on the last page. Members of > the shipping company travelling on company business are often on the last > page (or, on a separate "company" sheet used as a last-filmed page). > > And on the "Assisted (or Bounty) Immigrants" listings, the last pages > include girls who have sexually misbehaved (and occasionally a whole > "depraved" family) or an unaccompanied widow with children.....all of whom > were judged to not be elligible for their free passage, and their costs > would be charged to the "importer", who expected to receive his deferred > "Bounty" payment for commissioning the shipload of workers. Such persons > were not even allowed to use the immigation barracks, but were thrown on > their own resources. > > Is that a help to you (and to those looking over our shoulders}? > > The passenger index was meant to send enquirers direct to the microfiched > passenger lists, where they can get the port their forebears left, the date > they left, length of time the voyage took, the Captain & surgeon's name, > can look over it to see if there are any families that their forebears > married into, or who remained friends, or travelled with them in Victoria > to set up their new life. To see if they are listed as ill on the voyage, > if the ship was a healthy ship, if it was placed in quarantine, etc. > > And the day of arrival sends you to newspaper shipping columns, to see if > the shipping reporter wrote up the voyage, if the Captain went to court > because he starved the passengers, if the Doctor is charged with > incompetence, if the grateful passengers placed a memorial in the paper > thanking the Captain for his stewardship, etc. Even the weather on arrival > day can add colour to the arrival. > > And then to the Police Gazettes, to see if their luggage was stolen off the > wharf before they could start their new life! > > Isn't family history detective work fun!!! > > Regards, Ada > > > At 08:34 13-12-03 +1000, you wrote: > >I am totally confused...and confusing i guess also.... > > > >Got the pro victoria - assisted british immigration. > >found family tremayne. > >much of the family is listed twice. > >now i am sure there were not two cuthberts or mary's etc. > > > >index to registers of assisted british immigrants 1839-1871 > >12 results found for tremayne. > >first two entries are for cutbert then cuthbert. same ship, same book, but > >different pages. > > > >next two are for james who was 20, then 18. again same book but different > >pages. > > > >next is john, who is 13 twice. > > > >next is mary, 40, then mary 21 (she is the daughter) then mary 40 again, > >then mary ann who is 22 (same daughter?) > > > >then william who is 15, then again he is 16. same book, diff. pages. > > > >as far as i can ascertain....cuthbert tremayne married mary morrish. they > >came to oz with their grown up children. > >mary married edward evans. had a tribe of kids. > > > >to someone who is brainier than i am, why are they listed twice. are they > >really not the same people. i doubt it, but you never know. is there any > >way i can find out what occupation cuthbert was. e.g. shipping record > >somewhere or the 1841 census of england. they came from cornwall. > > > >anyone who can offer advice is most welcome. > >robyn shaw. toowoomba. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Ainslee Hooper" <arhooper@iprimus.com.au> > >To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 11:22 AM > >Subject: [GEELONG] john evans passed away late november > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > i was wondering if anyoone might have a copy of the geelong advertiser > >from last weekend or the weekend before. One of my great uncles John Evans > >passed away. In my gedcom file i can't find a John Evans so was hoping that > >the death notice might give more of an indication of who the person may be. > >I have 12 siblings in that family, some with James as the first name and > >John as the second name. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Ainslee > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-- > > > List Administrator of Aus-german-l & hooper-ons-l > > > www.ainsleehooper.com > > > GOONS #3895 Hooper, worldwide. > > > > > > > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > > > Geelong & District Churches : > > > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdchur.htm > > > > > > > > > > >==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > >Geelong and District web site : > >http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/ > > regards, > Ada Ackerly, Melbourne, Australia > formerly Ackerly DocuSearch > > > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > Geelong & District and Bellarine Indexes : > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdbksrc1.asp > http://www.zades.com.au/bellhs/bpnmsrc1.asp > >

At 08:34 13-12-03 +1000, you wrote: >I am totally confused...and confusing i guess also.... > >Got the pro victoria - assisted british immigration. Sorry, listers, I didn't fully read the enquiry and missed the important "Assisted", so I have to ADD, for that listing: There were "Nominal lists", those listing passengers particulars as they travelled to Australia. Then there were "Disposal lists" listing the person who employed them the length of time of the contract, the wage to be paid, whether rations were included. The spelling & ages were not always the same in each list. Assisted immigrants were listed in groups : married couples & young children, single males (14 years plus) and single females (14 years plus) They were also physically separated on board, and the children (14 years plus) were not necessarily employed by the same employer as their parents. I've deleted the original message, sorry, but if you email me privately with the information (names, ages, ship name, year & month, microfiche number & page number), I'll check my old microfiche of the actual shipping lists to which that information relates and see if I can answer your actual query. regards, Ada Ackerly, Melbourne, Australia formerly Ackerly DocuSearch

Hi Robyn My Evans family are also listed twice in this index, on different ships arriving one week apart. When I checked the actual films I found their names crossed through on the first ship and added to the bottom of the list on the second and can only assume for whatever reason they missed the first and came on the second. Have you looked at the actual films of the disposal notices/passenger lists? I am sure they did it just to confuse us poor unsuspecting researchers. regards Pauline Melburne

yep, seen the film. there was another evans family on board. matilda and husband and family. they also (sorry this is lysanda) settled in ovens river. they also had another matilda here. whether related to mary tremayne who later married edward evans, not sure. are you sure your lot are not related to edward? robyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline/Fiona" <rommel@relax.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [GEELONG] dumbo lister....sorry! > Hi Robyn > > My Evans family are also listed twice in this index, on different ships > arriving one week apart. When I checked the actual films I found their > names crossed through on the first ship and added to the bottom of the list > on the second and can only assume for whatever reason they missed the first > and came on the second. Have you looked at the actual films of the disposal > notices/passenger lists? > > I am sure they did it just to confuse us poor unsuspecting researchers. > regards > Pauline > Melburne > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > Geelong & District Churches : > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdchur.htm >