Hello Don and Listers, If you want to read a fairly full history of the registration of births, you might try: AIGS magazine "Genealogist" of December 1998, pages 150-153 "Unregistered Births in Victoria" by Ada Ackerly. As early as 1853 : (paraphrased) Father or mother, or if father or mother is dead or disabled, then the OCCUPIER of the house shall inform within 60 days according to the best of his or her knowledge. failure £10 fine. Child born at sea or in a vessel trading on the sea, the Master or officer in charge shall make a minute and name of vessel and shall inform at arrival in any port of the colony, SEND a certificate or minute through the Post Office to the Chief Registrar and it shall be entered in the "Marine Register Book". Section XI : After 60 days it shall not be lawful for the Deputy or the Chief Registrar to register a birth. Provided that : it shall be lawful for ANY PERSON PRESENT AT THE BIRTH or for the father or guardian thereof WITHIN 6 CALENDAR MONTHS to make a solemn declaration before the Deputy or the Chief Registrar and the book shall be signed ( by both the registrar and the informant. Any person WHO ENDEAVOURED to register a child after 12 months : fine £5 However, major changes came in 1899 when late registration of a birth with evidence, was possible through the Supreme Court or the County Court............ It looks to me as though the "friend & neighbour" might have been asked to register Thomas when he went to Geelong, and as a person "present at the birth" he could register the birth "within 6 months" without a fine. It is possible that the child John was given a later date of birth, pretending that the birth was recent, to evade the fine for late registration. It would be interesting to see the ages attributed to the children on a parent's death certificate. and whether there were two children John & Thomas, a year apart? I'm fascinated! Regards Ada At 17:13 04-11-03 +1000, Don Watson wrote: >Would any member care to comment on the following problem? >I have two birth certificates, details as follows - >1. Registered at Belfast 31 July 1866, birth of John BROOKS, > born Rosebrook, 16 July 1866. Father William BROOKS, > laborer, aged 32, born Yorkshire England. > Mother Elizabeth BROOKS, nee BUTCHER, age 20, born > Kidderminster, England. > Informant W Brooks, father. >2. Registered at Geelong 29 October 1866, birth of Thomas Alfred BROOKS, >born Sutherland Creek, 11 June 1866. Father William BROOKS, >woolsorter, aged 30, born Yorkshire England, > Mother Elizabeth BROOKS nee BUTCHER, aged 21 born > Kidderminster England. > Informant John Wilson, acquaintance and neighbour. > >How did they manage it? >Any suggestions? > >Don Watson > > >==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== >Geelong & District Surnames of Interest : >http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdname.htm regards, Ada Ackerly, Melbourne, Australia formerly Ackerly DocuSearch

Thank you, Ada, I think you may have put us along the right track with your comments. John Wilson doesn't claim to have been present at the birth, but nominates a witness, which is unreadable even when magnified 400 times, but looks like 'Mrs Choseaux'. > It looks to me as though the "friend & neighbour" might have been asked to > register Thomas when he went to Geelong, and as a person "present at the > birth" he could register the birth "within 6 months" without a fine. I think you are probably right here, except that they just added a year to his date of birth, but if 1865, it fits in nicely between the other two. Probably T A also died at or soon after birth, and they didn't think it worthwhile registering him, until they learned of the penalties when John arrived and died. So they did a quick cover up > It would be interesting to see the ages attributed to the children on a > parent's death certificate. and whether there were two children John & > Thomas, a year apart? No, the number of children declared on the parents' death certificates doesn't agree, and doesn't fit in with what we know from the births. I suppose it is probable that the surviving children weren't told of the deaths in infancy of any siblings and weren't old enough to remember it. If we keep working away and we might land this bloke eventually! Thanks again Don Watson > > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > Geelong & District Cemeteries : > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdcem.htm >

I have an ancestor who's birth was registered 23 years after the fact. John Joseph Johnson, born 1898, registered 1921 in Melbourne. It states on his birth registration that the birth was registered by the written order of a judge of the county court. My question is, what evidence would have been required to register a birth so late, and where might I find the county court records for this case? I'm at a bit of brick wall with his father, of the same name, who was listed as born in Sweden. I haven't been able to find anything else of John snr, so i'm hoping the court records may provide some more details. Thanks, Justin Heath McDonald PS: I posted this same query to the AUS-MELBOURNE list some time ago, and then it appeared in the last AIGS "Genealogist" magazine, thank you to the person who submitted it, unless there is someone else looking into the same person. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ada Ackerly" <aackers@alphalink.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [GEELONG] Late arriving twins? Hello Don and Listers, <snip> However, major changes came in 1899 when late registration of a birth with evidence, was possible through the Supreme Court or the County Court............ <snip>

Hello Justin You enquired, after reading my reply to the previous query: ><snip> > >However, major changes came in 1899 when late registration of a birth with >evidence, was possible through the Supreme Court or the County >Court............ > ><snip> Asking what evidence would be needed. My expertise is from those who applied to the Supreme Court, the case records of which Court (Supreme Court, "Miscellaneous" Equity Jurisdiction. VPRS 12024/p001) have survived. I believe that the case records from most County Courts have not survived, all you will get is the listing of the case in the "Deposition Book" if that has survived. And County Courts were local... unlike the Central Supreme Court, so you would have to know where the application was made to identify which County Court. If anything survives, your enquiry is to the Victorian Public Record Office, but I don't expect you will find what you seek i.e. background to his father.. I have notes on all the late registrations 1899-1922 of the Supreme Court, and, of course, your man is not among them EVIDENCE The evidence tendered in the successful applications to the Supreme Court gave: Full names of mother & father, date of marriage, often listing other children The reason the child had not been registered A vaccination certificate or/ baptisimal certificate or / statement of the relevant doctor or /midwife with perhaps a supporting statement from relative or /friend present at the birth The same evidence would be needed at the County Court At 19:07 11-11-03 +1100, you wrote: >I have an ancestor who's birth was registered 23 years after the fact. John >Joseph Johnson, born 1898, registered 1921 in Melbourne. It states on his >birth registration that the birth was registered by the written order of a >judge of the county court. My question is, what evidence would have been >required to register a birth so late, and where might I find the county >court records for this case? I'm at a bit of brick wall with his father, of >the same name, who was listed as born in Sweden. I haven't been able to >find anything else of John snr, so i'm hoping the court records may provide >some more details. > >Thanks, > >Justin Heath McDonald > >PS: I posted this same query to the AUS-MELBOURNE list some time ago, and >then it appeared in the last AIGS "Genealogist" magazine, thank you to the >person who submitted it, unless there is someone else looking into the same >person. The AIGS would not usually publish unless authorized... but I see they just say "John" birth 1898, late registration 1921 and "County Court" so it may be someone hoping to learn from your position without revealing who the enquirer was. An email to info@aigs.org.au directed to the Editor may receive a reply on the origin of the query. regards, Ada Ackerly, Melbourne, Australia formerly Ackerly DocuSearch